>Fan translation leaves honorifics and organization titles untranslated
Fan translation leaves honorifics and organization titles untranslated
Honorifics shouldn't be translated, Mr. Faggot
>weeb translation is written for weebs Wow.
You should never translate honorifics because the characters might refer to them at some point.
>fan translation has reddit-tier memes
they should just put the honorifics they use in the sub as is instead of attempting to translate it to english because it doesn't really directly translate well and people who are genuinely interested in anime will eventually learn the context of each honorific
Is that a bad thing somehow
Does this happen?
>watching kizumonogatari
>Hanekawa laughs
>Lololololololololololol
>subs say Seto
>Audio clearly said oni-chan
Nothe breaks my immersion more than that, why they need to put the names of characters I'll never understand, if you want to translate sensei, then say teacher, not the characters name.
Screenshot, user, screenshot it
You have to over-localizate, or use "brother" or "big brother" and that's gay
I'm realy sorry about your repressed homosexuality causing you to see everything as gay.
>unironically calling your brother "brother/big brother"
I'll admit that I laughed at this one. But 99% of the time it is terrible.
I'm not a retarded Englishman so I don't know why you guys are so but hurt about using family terms, in my language , like most sane languages, we do that, we call any slightly older male were close with big brother. I bet your dad doest even call your mom 'mother', that's why you guys have such a high divorce rate.
>masaka=Omg
>fuzakeruna=quit dicking around
>nandatto(what)
>fps counter for watching anime
And the real memesubs have an umu counter.
>official translation changes every instance of onii/onee to the character's name
I hate those subs.
Yes, that tends to be how Japanese works, user.
So would you prefer "Big Bro" or no translation
Just leave the shit as is. Not every single thing needs to have a 1:1 analogue in English. Hell, English is fucking loaded with loan words from Latin, French, German, etc.
It's the same shit as calling your father, dad or your mother, mom.
I wonder why english as a language doesn't have close family ties. What does anglo-saxons think about family anyway? Just a bunch of people you just happen to be born with?
Does it really matter that much? If you watch anime enough you should have some of those words learned already and substitute in their meaning as you read according to what you hear if you want. I never read the subtitles exactly, I'll fill it in myself. Like if it was a Japanese setting, I'll hear -kun and read the subtitle in my mind as -kun even if it didn't show it. If it's in a non-Japanese setting I'll ignore most honorifics. Not sure if it makes sense but that's the best I can explain it
Alright non english bros, what's the "onii-chan" of your language?
Flipfag, so Kuya for older borther/Ate for older sister mostly.
Is there even any proper translation for honorifics?
Kinda sucks we don't have a word for imouto/otouto
Actually, not translating honorifics is right thing to do. As others already said, anyone who watches anime should know by now what they mean, even if they don't understand Japanese. Also, considering that there is no direct equivalent in English, you wouldn't be able to anyway.
Ouboet in Afrikaans. Pronounced oh-boot. It's common to call older males this, but damn some city people get pissed if you call them that, same with calling old males uncle (oom), sometimes dumbasses will yell "I'm not YOUR fucking uncle" if you call them that.
Objectively speaking yes it matters that much. Translations should require exactly zero knowledge of the original language to be understood, and this is exactly what happens in translations from other languages to english, you don't watch a subbed russian movie expecting half the shit to be untranslated. The reason these half-baked translations are so prevalent in anime is that most are amateur fan efforts.
.
sensei = martial art master, master, teacher, doctor, lawyer, medic, professor...
oniisan, oniichan, oniichama, anii, niisama, oniitama, aniuesama, oniitan, aniki, anikun, nii-ya, anchan, nii nii = elder brother
Translation and Localization are different things here. What you're describing is generally referred to as localization here.
Localizations are unreadable for me, to the point where I either hide the text or actively avert my eyes from it. Pretty sure I'm not the only one and thats the public that kind of subbers/translators aims at.
No, translation means translating EVERYTHING from one language to another as faithfully as possible while still being understandable without knowledge of the original language. Localization means actually changing stuff to accommodate the target audience, like cutting or covering up "sensitive" scenes or turning rice balls into jelly doughnuts.
yugoSlav here, we don't have those. But we do have words that distinguish whose side of the family does your uncle/aunt belong and which one of them is related by blood and which married into your family. Your in-laws also have specific words attached to them instead of being x-in-law and different sets of names are used to distinguish between each partners in-laws. We also don't have the term cousin, but two gender specific ter. Werdly enough we don't have an equivalent of sibling, we always refer to siblings as brothers and sisters. There are some diminutives that can be used as an equivalent of -chan but we don't use the as often as nips
>sama, chan, kun, san and so on all translating into the same
yeah, that was my point. I can't really come up with any translation that wouldn't lose at least part of the meaning
The thing is that you cannot translate them without losing part of the meaning.
Also you don't need to know anything about Japanese to understand these words, you only have to look them up once. Would you also complain about a scifi author using terms like Jonbar hinge just because most people won't know what it is and will have to look it up if it's not directly explained by the context?
It doesn't really matter 99% of the time because they're just there due to it being customary and have zero plot relevance. In cases where they do have plot relevance they can be replaced by diminutives, or miss/mister, etc. as needed to convey the meaning.
>Translations should require exactly zero knowledge of the original language to be understood
I think you are confusing two things here, at least when it comes to the honorifics. That is very much part of Japanese culture, if you strip it away you strip away part of the setting (and indications for the character's relationship towards each other).
This isn't about understanding Japanese, this is about understanding (part of) Japanese culture.
MC-kun
MC-san
MC-chan
All have different levels of intimacy.
>turning rice balls into jelly doughnuts
Throwing away honorifics is essentially the same.
>while still being understandable without knowledge of the original language
the problem is that you that you literally can't do that a lot of the time, because words that don't even exist in your language could be plot point and your audience will be left dumbfounded. Leaving certain terms untranslated lets your audience know that there's a meaning to them that can't be translated, so they will starts recognizing them as such.
Bruderherz
Honorifics are good. Herkz can suck my dick.
>translation is a localization because american brainlets can't understand nuances they're not used to
>muh localization
why? so much meaning gets lost already in translation
>It doesn't really matter 99% of the time because they're just there due to it being customary and have zero plot relevance
They don't have to be a key plot point but they tell you a lot about your characters and how they percieve each other.
>In cases where they do have plot relevance they can be replaced by diminutives, or miss/mister, etc. as needed to convey the meaning.
That almost always ends up sounding awkward, since a lot of those words aren't used as often or in the same way in English.
Does anyone actually use that unironically though? At least in my state you usually just address your siblings by either their name or a nickname.
Leaving honorifics in is not faithful translation, while completely removing them and their context is. Bravo, cartel.
>oni-chan
Scary
Japanese is far from the only language that doesn't perfectly translate to english, yet it's the only one where these kind of partial translations are regularly done. It's natural that some meaning is lost in translation but this is acceptable in every other language. If you know japanese culture and honorifics then use the pair of ears you were given to pick them up from the audio.
Which is why you shouldn't butcher it more by stripping away the languange essence.
I actually do sometimes
Only shit like puns don't work well when translated literally. You're retarded if you think otherwise.
Why not do both, like Persona 5?
>Did you hear about Mr Kamoshida, MC-kun?
jesus christ, I fucking hate these faggots thinking they're funny with their subtext
>a line of dialogue is missing
It would be possible to localize in a way that conveys a meaning identical to the original, people underestimate their own language too much. Of course, that would expect effort and skill on the translator's part
>he doesn't call his aniki bro/big-bro
>others are doing a shit job too and anyway you can just fix those mistakes yourself
compelling argument
also the stuff that was translated from Russian (at least into my language) often still has stuff in there that makes no sense unless you look it up.
>dubtitles
I think it has more to do with being uneducated illiterates rather than 'underestimating'.
>professional translation has reddit-tier memes
Spoken subtitles works for documentary and other scientific shows. Otherwise, into the trash.
That's just a fact of life. Ever watched anything on another language subbed? You're probably missing a lot of subtleties. Hell, do you really think you're getting everything that's being conveyed in japanese just because you know honorifics?
>do you really think you're getting everything that's being conveyed in japanese just because you know honorifics?
Not him but that would be the fault of subbers who localize instead of translating.
-sensei being translated while other honorifics were left in is not something Persona 5 invented.
>Japanese is far from the only language that doesn't perfectly translate to english, yet it's the only one where these kind of partial translations are regularly done
Part of the reason is that Japanese and English are miles apart. Translating from german to english, for example, is a much easier task since they're both germanic languages, and a significantly smaller ammount of information is lost. This is also not true, plenty of phrases are left as they are.
>If you know japanese culture and honorifics then use the pair of ears you were given to pick them up from the audio
Bout you will never lean that if they don't include honorifics in the subtitles. I know the meaning behind them because I kept seeing those words untranslated, realized they must be important and decided to look them up. If the subs dind't point that out for me it would have taken a much longer time to figure that out and I would miss out on a lot of information in the meantime.
>Hell, do you really think you're getting everything that's being conveyed in japanese just because you know honorifics?
No, but that is no reason to strip away even more of the "subtleties", especially when they aren't that super subtle at all and everyone can easily read up on it in 5 minutes and will understand it afterwards.
Братан
>Professional translation changes lines, has poor grammar and spelling errors
It's fucking impossible to convey every little nuance accurately without having a paragraph of translator's notes on every other line. Or leaving far more than just he honorifics untranslated at which point why even bother at all.
The difference is that reading up on honorifics and understanding them takes no effort at all, whereas learning the whole fucking language to grasp some subtleties is a major effort.
And like already pointed out, you'll need some hook that actually makes you look into what is going on. If you don't understand a single word of what is being said and only focus on the subtitles, you'll probably just miss the honorifics for a pretty long time. Especially when what's being said and what is written in the subtitles matches up so seldom when people are being addressed.
Here's a solution:
MC-kun -> MC (friendly)
MC-san -> Mr. MC
MC-sama -> Lord MC
MC -> MC
It really isn't. I guess that's the difference between people who grew up with only 1 language and people who grew up with 2+.
You need to watch more anime, if you think those are the only possible uses.
It's a shit solution.
Would you insist that the military ranks in some story about ancient Rome all have to be localized because otherwise you'd actually have to put a minimum of effort into figuring out what the different ranks mean?
Don't know why subbers seem to assume that their audience are braindead mouth breathers who can't be expected to learn anything new.
>Ever watched anything on another language subbed?
Yes, I watch shit in English every day. I don't need subtitles, but they helped me a lot when I was a kid
>Hell, do you really think you're getting everything that's being conveyed in japanese just because you know honorifics?
No, because that's literally impossible. But that's no reason to further remove information because the poor viewer might get confused by a foreign word. You would either need to clutter up the screen with tl notes every time a honorific appears or just leave them as is and trust the viewer is smart enough to get the point
Ave Kaisar, Praetor-kun.
>Don't know why subbers seem to assume that their audience are braindead mouth breathers who can't be expected to learn anything new.
If their primary audience is Americans, there's a fair bit of evidence that they are. Not all of them, but enough that not catering to the stupid can be the difference between success and failure when selling a movie or TV show.
>Don't know why subbers seem to assume that their audience are braindead mouth breathers who can't be expected to learn anything new.
Do you also think localization companies are weird for making dubs because they think their audience are braindead mouth breathers who can't be expected to read subs? Unfortunately they're completely in the right to make those assumptions. The core issue is that retards get pandered to and everyone else has to cop it.
I'm making a patch to restore honorifics in one of the cartel releases right now.
Awe, true to Kaisar
What if it were an american story being translated into another language? Should military ranks be localized or left as-is?
What would gunny even localize as?
Left as is. It's part of US culture, if you give so little shits about US culture that you cannot be bothered to figure out what the ranks mean, why even read a story about the US military?
銃くん
Depending on the context, it should be either rank-equivalent or function-equivalent
they are generally left as is, at least for the stories I red
How to handle military ranks is one of the issues where there is no one-size-fits-all approach; it largely depends on how similar the rank structures of the militaries belonging to the countries in question work.
>Lord
No. Some guy you respect very much is not a lord.
Not to mention, -sama is often used to address women as well.