Oh for sure 100% a SSJ2 recolor in blue is better than a design that truly represents what a highest tier saiyan should...

oh for sure 100% a SSJ2 recolor in blue is better than a design that truly represents what a highest tier saiyan should be (someone using oozaru power but having it in control enough to resemble their original state) my man i agree but i disagree

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The whole point of DB since the original is that the Oozaru is something must be avoided. Going back to it with a "I know we said that the tail was bad, but it's actually good" was a bad move from Toei.

I agree that Blue is just a shitty recolor, but the power of a God makes more sense than the power of a fucking giant monkey. Everyone was stronger than the Oozaru after frieza arc.

>but the power of a God makes more sense than the power of a fucking giant monkey
oh for sure especially when it's a monkey like race like saiyans 500%

just like how it would make more sense for a god race to have a monkey ultimate form rather than a god final form

>"I know we said that the tail was bad, but it's actually good"
It wasn't that it was bad, rather that it was difficult to control and extremely powerful.

That just makes what SSJ4 is more impressive and impactful, you idiot. Did you even watch the Baby saga

The furfag design was atrocious. The transformation itself made no fucking sense especially when Kid Goku was involved. The design had him with pink fur, red eyeliner, and long spiky black hair. It's fucking gay. It's the epitome of what we as a community consider "fanfiction" tier. The blue redesign was a little cheap. God Mode and everything after Blue was cool but there's absolutely no fucking way SSJ4 comes even close to being as good. The whole Monkey King bullshit ran it's course with the Great Ape transformation. We don't need half ape retard shit.

they moved on from the monkey like race pretty quickly, it was clear that the monkey shit and the chimpouts were just wasted potential compared to SS. I mean , they lived centuries without even knowing they could increase their power level at will or sense energy levels, instead relying on inefficient shit like zenkai or the Oozaru form.

It should have /at least/ had brown hair.

Seriously, what is up with the freaking red. Where does it come from.

booty blasted as hell
except the legendary super saiyan's story involved the oozaru as it's original transformation, just because toriyama's a hack and forgot doesn't make IT'S GOKU WITH WHITE HAIR AND GOD KI any better

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It's pink which makes it even worse. Vegeta's fur was red. Regardless of the color, it's a bad design.

It actually looks cool. The problem is the color.

And it's still better than mere recoloring of the original SSJ

>Regardless of the color, it's a bad design.
nope

Why is simplicity such a problem with people? I'd rather get a design that looks like something that would evolve from the previous form than something that's blatantly out of place and also makes no sense.

recolors >>>>>> furryshit

anything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Furryshit

>Super Magic Pants
>Good

>except the legendary super saiyan's story involved the oozaru as it's original transformation
True, but in that scene vegeta pictured a super saiyan that still had it's tail, while toriyama had already moved on from the tail because he though they didn't need it, he's a forgetful hack but i think it was intended given that it happened in such a short time frame. The power of a God has it's problems, in the sense that alone it's not a guarantee of strength, the kaioshins are relatively weak despite having God Ki(compared to the z fighters, i know that they are at least SS2 tier in the scale of things) and the blue form is weak af, but in general i prefer the concept to that of an ascended monkey, despite loving the SS4 design. I just wish they would have moved towards the power of a GoD instead of this UI angel stuff.

born after 1997

Vegeta in GT:
>If she shoots this beam at me I will become the all powerful Super Sayian monkey 4!!!!
Vegeta in Super:
>I will achieve God power by training with Gods

Oh gee I wonder which is better.

This is not even a logical argument. If anything, It's kids like you who actually prefer flamboyant furfag designs. Grown ass men don't like that shit.

I liked ssj4 for actually going with the theme. You even saw a bit of that when Goku went ssj3. But in terms of design it really opened the door for autists coming up with ssj5+.

GT was shit but it had some good ideas and it's heart was in the right place. Super seems lacking in spirit. But that last episode was great.

>yfw realizing the reason why saiyans have so many different fucking forms is because they're based on Sun Wukong

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I'm '00 babby and fur >>>> recolor

>it's heart was in the right place. Super seems lacking in spirit.
Yeah because making literally every important character utterly useless is having heart while thinking Pan as an obnoxious MC was a good idea. With Super, they actually tried making their irrelevant character somewhat useful again. People like Roshi, Piccolo and Tien had a purpose. Hell they even made Gohan out to be a great father which is better character development he's ever gotten past Cell arc. GT did jackshit.

mte. the ssj4 looks more like a god(Monkey King) than a fucking recolor.

A god isn't a roided up ape man. It makes more sense to have a god that isn't some intimidating monstrosity. It's the aura from god mode that makes him feel god like.

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> Devian art vs Troiyama lazy recolor
> arguable
mheh

>anything from GT
>better
kill yourself

>dark dragons all had callbacks to the various wishes
>overall capturing the feel of the early db series
>four star dragon was a total bro
>expanding upon the backstory of the saiyans
>super 17's defeat an homage to the fight against king piccolo

I said it was shit but there were attempts at making something more than energy spams and ATATATATATATATA.

so you can feel the aura coming from Twinku, user?

>>dark dragons all had callbacks to the various wishes
who gives a shit.
>overall capturing the feel of the early db series
Only that first arc which was lackluster due to the random selection of leads. Pan and non futuristic uninteresting adult Trunks was a terrible idea.
>four star dragon was a total bro
We all know how stupid that was.
>expanding upon the backstory of the saiyans
Even though they're all dead. Makes sense.
>super 17's defeat an homage to the fight against king piccolo
Who gives a shit?

If this was the BEST they could do, then it should have never of existed.

>they actually tried making their irrelevant character somewhat useful again. People like Roshi, Piccolo and Tien had a purpose. Hell they even made Gohan out to be a great father which is better character development he's ever gotten past Cell arc. GT did jackshit.

That's all toei filler though.

>That's all toei filler though.
It's the best kind of filler than. Plus what even is filler nowadays. The manga is an adaption of the anime so whatever came first is legitimate so that "filler" is pretty much canon

if it wasnt for the colouring and edgelord eyes, I'd agree

>tien
>a purpose
He literally got reduced to kikohoman and even then only took out ONE irrelevant uggo

>If this was the BEST they could do, then it should have never of existed.

It's not even canon. It hasn't been canon for decades. And you keep arguing like I'm saying GT is good. Do you have any reading comprehension?

I'm in this boat, I don't think GT is very good. What I do think is that the artstyle, super saiyan 4 design, and villains shit all over anything in super.

Zamasu was cool, that's about it. The U6 saiyans looked like they came from a western cartoon that tried to be anime, Jiren, Toppo and the others were bland as fucking shit.

At least Baby, Super 17, Rildo and so on looked Toriyama-esque and fit Z's artstyle. GT wasn't good but at least they tried, whereas Super was absolutely bland in almost every way.

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One of my biggest issues with super is how bland and generic toriyama-style Jiren looked.
Like if someone drew the most generic looking toriyama alien bad guy, it'd look like jiren 9 times out of 10.

You don't have to be mean. I'm sensitive.

It's just a grey alien on a testosterone & trenbolone cycle wearing a skin tight star trek suit

Exactly. GT gets the "you tried" award. Super finishes the race last, steals the trophy, and claims they won it fair and square.

You're a couple of months late

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The tail was never bad.
It's literally how Goku wins in the first arc of the manga.

Blue looks like they selected the character with the wrong button in a fighting game.

>androgynous space lizard exterminates your entire race, including your father directly
>team up with him and save the day with the power of friendship
pathetic

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How did his clothes change when he transformed?

the aura is a part of the form, and both ssb's flowing water thing and ssg's burning fire come across as more significant changes than ss4's kinda sparkling but still gold aura

>magic clothes
did you ask this when vegetto's gi was blue, or when gotenks somehow grew metamoran clothes after the fusion dance

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UI goku isn't using his god ki

No, because fusion was fucking magic.

SS4 was a physical transformation. Having altered clothes makes no sense.

SS4 > SSB
Super > GT

>he thinks there is absolutely anything physical about the oozaru transformation
Saiyans are innately magic

Piccolo literally has a clothes beam. Characters getting clothing out of nothing is not even special.

>No, because fusion was fucking magic.
I don't think i wanna bother with you anymore

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now actually read journey to the west. its really quite good.
if you're just not a reader, at least watch the havoc in heaven movies, the chinese made animated adaption.
once you've experienced the source material it makes a lot more sense where toriyama is coming from a lot of the time, even though he plays it fast and loose

SS4 had a better idea behind it (merging Oozaru and SS), as well as being more fitting for Saiyans/Wukong.

Sadly it was dragged down by GT being trash and the dumb eyeliner (and pink-ish fur).

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yeah, god of the stables

I think the pink looked good. And the eyeliner.

While I still find SS4 cooler than SSB, I have to point out one thing.

>it was difficult to control and extremely powerful
Vegeta immediately proved that going Oozaru doesn't necessarily mean losing control. He could've easily won back then if Yajirobe wasn't around to cut his tail.

>oozaru power but having it in control enough to resemble their original state
lmao Oozaru form is weaker than regular super saiyan.

its heavily undermined by there being more than seven wishes made since goku first gathered the balls, and completely going against how kami created the dragonballs as a way to answer the prayers of the people of earth but had been losing faith in them until goku came along because every single wish prior had been wholly selfish if not outright evil
furthermore, only syn had an even slight resemblance to shenron and porunga

lmaoooooo see lmao rn s m h fuckboy bihhhhhhhhhhh...........

can't even follow basic shit, heem yourself idiot

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literally the reason tails got dropped was because it kept bugging toriyama how putting on pants when you need to thread your tail through a hole would in his mind me weird and cumbersome, and how having a tail sticking out a hole in your pants would cause them to fall apart quickly.
all the shit about it being a liability and a crutch was stuff toriyama decided on after the fact to excuse his autistism

>Vegeta immediately proved that going Oozaru doesn't necessarily mean losing control
An early blunder to be honest, because before and after vegeta in the saiyan saga oozaru implied complete loss of control.

I'm pretty sure since Toriyama planned to end it at the Frieza saga, it was just there to make Vegetable seem more terrifying as an adversary.

Vegeta essentially reflected the oozaru/legendary super saiyan link later on too.

Just a reminder that Goku already has the power of Oozaru in his base form since the Piccolo Daimao arc. GT's staff seems to have completely forgotten that (granted, I wouldn't be surprised if even Toriyama forgot about it at this point).

>except the legendary super saiyan's story involved the oozaru as it's original transformation
That was anime-only. The anime staff likely were told info that LSSJ was a transformation, and so gave Vegeta lines about how he could maintain his power in a transformed state. The actual problem is that they used Oozaru there, even though it was clearly wrong, and didn't change anything later, when Vegeta acts like he's already a SSJ in spite of no transformation.

Some random flash back about what Vegeta imagined the legendary super saiyan to be doesn't mean that literally is the legendary super saiyan.

>and didn't change anything later, when Vegeta acts like he's already a SSJ in spite of no transformation.
pretty sure most of the frieza arc explains this as being arrogance, insecurity and narcissism due to being a tragic 2nd place prince.

>Just a reminder that Goku already has the power of Oozaru in his base form since the Piccolo Daimao arc
nice fanfic though, that's not how it went down.

yeah it was just implied for the audience and never mentioned again just because. dbz was really deep like that.

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the only shenron who had a good design was oceanus, because she was inspired by an actual buddhist folklore dragon: Longnü
even the reveal that Oceanus was actually an ugly male was a joke based on how in the Lotus Sutra Longnü turns into a male Bodhisattva to prove to Śāriputra, one of Buddha's disciples, that the body one was born into does not hold absolute sway on your destiny
if all the dark dragons had that much thought put into their character GT would have been leagues better

>before and after vegeta in the saiyan saga oozaru implied complete loss of control.
hardly. vegeta showed that with enough exposure and practice, a saiyan could remain lucid while a great ape. goku had only gone great ape three times in his life before permanently losing his tail, and gohan twice. all it implied was that neither goku nor gohan ever had nor ever will get the chance to master it

he was barely lucid and became a literal raging ape what the fuck are you smoking, there's a reason vegeta changed

stay mad and hungry for validation

he could still talk, think ahead, and remember who he was and what he was here to do. thats lucid

The only people hungry for validation are the superfags after that trainwreck of an ending

>no u
kek

I'm sorry GT is shit

As opposed to a random accusation, I mean it's more realistic that superfags are desperate for validation after their finale was embarrassing fanfic trash than the GT boogeymen somehow seeking ANYTHING at all

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No one ever said that ssj4 is a shit design. GT is shit.

>No one ever said that ssj4 is a shit design
read the thread

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>furryshit design
>better than anything

Nope, Super is still better than GT, sorry Juan

Enough super is over it's time to move on to something new.

youtube.com/watch?v=fzZ1f8r5Hp8

jajajajajaja

the problem with SS4 is that, while it fits with Oozaru, it doesn't make any sense after the other Super Sayan forms

imo it would've been better if the monkey form had been Super Sayan 1 instead of just turning blonde and then go upwards from there

i see the posts of a bunch of nobodies

fuck you. You wanted blonde hair longer than ssj3 had? It's the only direction they could have gone without looking completely retarded. Super on the other hand just changes the palette and says"this is stronger than super sajan because we say so" and makes zero sense, fuck you autistic fucks dragon ball died with GT