I'm curious. Is there any show you watched at a younger age and rooted for the "good guys" but when rewatching realized the "bad guys" had at least a good point you never considered because of your inexperience in life?
Villains with valid points
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Overdid it but ultimately when you take a look at LoGH society there's fuck all disabled people outside war veterans.
He was a coward that gave up and turned on his own. He redeemed himself however.
The "good guys" are fucking assholes...
the "bad guy" is just some sort of anti-hero.
Actually more-often than not, I began to appreciate the “good guys” more. A good villain still has a good point, but when I was younger I’d often automatically default to liking the villain for the sake of being edgy or some shit.
I've always rooted for the "bad guys" even when I was a kid. I remember loving Jaffar and Scar in Alladin and The Lion King. When I got a bit older I liked Sauroman in LOTR.
I guess I was just a really fucking edgy kid. Villians with good motivation can really make an anime stand out though, too bad it's so rare to see.
My favorite trope is the MC or someone close to the MC switching sides, not due to brainwashing but because he/she was converted with arguments from the "evil" side.
>What is Ovelord?
An autistic coward who LARP evil because it's scary to tell the NPCs to follow his orders.
Lord genome wasn’t right. He was wrong, but he redeemed himself. He let simon save humanity.
>simon's drill is the drill that will pierce the heavens
>lordgenome's spiral tower is a giant drill aimed downwards
never even noticed
This. At some point I started to understand villain motives and recognize the points they hold but later discovered the real beauty if villany is in their flaws. No matter how righteous or valid they think their cause is it will always be stained by the tragedy of their circumstances and/or their narrowed sight that impeded them from seeing a better path towards it than to do evil.
Bonus points for villains that recognize they're doing evil but are fine with damming their souls for the greater good.
Anyone who watched Gurren Lagann and didn't realize that the Anti Spiral was right about the Spiral Nemesis is a fucking moron.
It's outright stated that they did what they did to protect the universe from destruction. They are the "bad guys" because of their methods, not because of their ideology.
The ending however showed the anti spiral that Simon was able to summon such a huge amount of spiral energy without anything happening implying they might not be completely right. They based their whole goal on a theory that might not be correct.
Not really a villain but I remember hating Flay in Gundam SEED the first time around.
Then I rewatched it a year later and I completely understood her actions and even cheered for her. Lacus seemed like a stoic robot in comparison.
Except he was right, he did the best with what he had to work with. Going all "Fuck Logic" and going all balls to the wall with it, while it tends to work in anime, is suicidal and hardly smart and rarely ends up going right.
You can't expect a character to be aware of animu tropes lmao
Simon refrained from reviving his wife because he feels responsible about the possibility of Spiral Nemesis. He then stopped using it altogether and walked the world alone with his pet. Also the first scene has him being enemies with pretty much all the universe. There's some weight to the Anti-Spiral's theory. Spiral Power is not unlimited, it has to come from somewhere.
Anyone who watched Gurren Lagann and didn't know it was a ripoff/homage of Getter Robo can freely fuck off any time.
You watched the same show?
In the Movie version at least, they triggered Spiral Nemesis in Anti-Spiral's pocket dimension and made the universe there collapse into a singularity.
Spiral Nemesis is hardly just a hypothesis, it's a logical fact, energy isn't supposed to be created, only change form. Introduce enough new energy into the universe and it shatters the equilibrium and causes it to collapse on itself into a singularity.
Well his actions did basically save humanity from fading into nothingness.
They were fighting in an alternative reality.
And in the movie pic related happends. Looks pretty dangerous to me.
Yes it's just a theory but in episode 26 the Anti Spiral explains the Spiral Nemesis to Simon. And he's just stunned. Viral thinks it's just a bluff but the Spiral King confirms to him that it's the truth and Simon realized that on an intuitive level.
The Anti Spiral says that spiral beings gives birth to new galaxies. You also see that happen in the final battle with the Big Bang Attack.
>turned out the good guys were the monsters
Squealer was great. Did enough terrible things to seem evil but did it for a cause.
>Anyone who accepts adversity and responsibility is a fucking moron.
Please continue on with your cowardly existence user
this twist was so stupid...
he was a huge dick tho
One of my favorite villains
Honestly? All of them.
Post ONE villain that had no valid points.
That's not what I said.
Both in the show and the movie the pocket universe collapsed because they took down the anti spiral, not because of the spiral nemesis.
The Major in Hellsing.
You said the Anti-Spiral's ideology was right, the ideology of cowardly running away from your problems intended of trying to change and grow to overcome the problems.
The universe in the pocket dimension collapsed into a singularity when the two Giga Drill Breakers collided - that's exactly what the Spiral Nemesis event describes.
They did just that, they adapted and swore off spiral power as being ultimately self-destructive.
Simon did the same, the only difference is that Simon decided to TRUST in others not to destroy the universe and didn't go on a Grand Tour across the universe, smacking every spiral power-capable species with a metaphorical mallet when they get to big for their britches.
in the movie when they attacked each other with the largest drills the entire pocket universe got sucked into the drills.
Forgot to post in my post earlier.
It pretty much shows the Spiral Nemesis happening.
I said they were right about the Spiral Nemesis and that any viewer who's not a moron should realize that.
I'm not saying they were right or wrong I'm saying it's blatently obvious that they weren't just "the bad guys" but had a valid point. OP sounds like a fucking retards saying it's something you'd realize after a rewatch years later once you're a bit older and have more life experience.
Cell / Broly / Buu
Raoh and all the fuckers from the 2nd half.
Then she overstayed and was a complete bitch and useless
What did Cell do wrong? He wanted to test his perfect form. That was his end-game. He didn't care about ruling anyone.
Yeah, it was presented as a twist.
He had no points.
He was just smug and wanted to destroy the earth because lol whatever
That's not a good point, thats his motivation, but killing the defenseless army of earth? threatening to destroy the world?
To test his perfect form he could have just asked Goku for as many matches as he wanted, no need to be all dickish as to threaten everyone.
As smart as Cell is presented he always looked really shortsighted and clumsy for me.
Well, God is kind of a dick.
He threatened them so that the strongest earthlings would come forward and fight him. It was a taunt.
The earth's mightiest army was ruining his battleground.
The final villain from Digimon Season 1. I don't even remember what his goal is besides destroying everything.
>forgot the pic again
Yes I am retarded.
ur retarded as fuck
He wanted to escape from the digital world and be real, him and every other digimon on the digital world
yeah well, still no reason to act like he did, as I said, he only had to ask Goku for a serious match.
All he wanted in the end was to be a hero, he just choose a poor approach to it.
Watched Death Note and Monster 11-12 years ago, and recently rewatched them.
At the time, I could see the grey in both characters, with Light obviously being the most evil on an individual level. After rewatching it, I can appreciate the both sides of the argument even more, but view it more from a libertarian vs authoritarian perspective, rather than a utilitarian versus lawfulness one
As for Monster, I think I just appreciated how much more scary Johan is as a character, and I can understand how he could become the monster he is.
Simon didn't sware off spiral power and demand everyone else to, he tried to cure the sickness, not just deal with the syptoms
On my first read through, I just thought of him as an overzealous, scummy dickbag, who cared less about saving lives and more about killing pirates.
But now, after reading through two more times, I see him in a somewhat more sympathetic light. I don't think he's righteous, but he does serve a necessary role. For all the good pirates we see in the world of One Piece, there are ten more classic evil ones that go around looting and killing. And while the Marines have corrupt elements, most of their focus is on the New World and keeping the most powerful pirates from destroying the balance. They're trying to save as many lives as possible given the circumstances. Akainu personifies this kind of justice, that's utilitarian by necessity.
And he's shown to have conflict with the World Government, so it's not like he's just ignoring the hypocrisy and injustices committed by the WG, but he knows the Marines can't exist without them, so he has to concede some things to achieve as much justice as possible.
So he's got some valid points, but he's still not a good guy.
i like how the anti-spiral drill looks like the end of a screw.
The villains in Macross Delta, I’d probably be more sympathetic if they didn’t mindrape billions of innocent civilians while screeching how they were the ones being persecuted
They fucked him over, i feel bad for latifa but its your shitty fathers fault
Both main villains of the show have zero redeeming qualities, the other one more so, but he's a giant spoiler so I'm posting this fag.
Lord Genome was basically Simone but without a Party to reassure him that nothing was impossible.
The idea with Griffith that people jump on is that anyone in the band of the hawk would have died for him in any other scenario, but where he "broke the rules" was when the supernatural was brought in, which no normal human had any chance against.
This. He was a lonely virgin.
Buu only wanted to eat candy
>we wuz humans
You're being silly. The Anti-Spiral are hilariously over the top in how evil he is. Just scale it down for a clearer perspective. It would be the exact same thing as if someone on Earth spared 1 in 70,000 people, killed absolutely everyone else, then locked the survivors up in concentration camps. Then, if the population of those camps grew to 1/7,000th of the original population, he would kill nearly everyone again. All because he assumed humanity would inevitably ruin the Earth by nuking itself, or through pollution, or what have you.
Protecting the Universe doesn't mean much when you wipe out or torture all sentient life inside of it.
Light is too flawed a person to make for an appropriate ruler for the human race.
How? It was extremely well foreshadowed and fit in perfectly with the world, plot, and themes.
>Doing what you love
Kano in Texhnolyze
Fuck "who was in the right" discussion regarding that show. We can all agree that, regardless of that shit, the Major was charismatic as all hell.
for a guy who was evil for evil's sake, here's hakumen no mono.
And i'd dare to say that nobody important in TTGL was really evil, i mean the anti spirals are lord genome and lord genome is rossiu's village leader.
all three of them protected their universe/world/village by keeping the population from reaching the critical mass that would doom everyone. it was a conscious choice of sacrificing some to ensure continuous survival of the species, you could say it's the exact same person on different scales.
they took the only option they could find. hell simon may have beaten the anti spirals but if you see he never gave a concise answer to how exactly he'll stop spiral nemesis from happening (and spiral nemesis IS a truth, you'd have to be retarded to think otherwise), we're just given an anime "it will be ok!" as they defeat him.
mind you i'm not saying the ending was bad, it wasn't at all and ends in a hopeful note, but the fact is that the author can't give you a clear way to stop spiral nemesis because no explanation wouldn't sound like bullshit.
Other way around in death note.
With 17 i saw it for the first time, i thought it was grey as fuck and liked Light more.
Rewatching it with 25 i think, light is just a totally unjustified cunt.
A realistic enough character, but clearly wrong in almost everything he does.
Lord genome and the antispiral were cool guys, they simply protected existence in the only way they knew. And the point wasn't exactly too farfetched considering that the spiral beings went from being cave dwellers to entering the space age in just seven years. Give them more unrestrained progression time and they would be doing even more crazy shit.
pretty sure most characters agree he wasn't wrong just that it wasnt true peace and honestly kenshiro protected the staus quo
goku doesn't fight seriously unless something is on the line
Fucking gendo from evangelion
>wants to bring about instrumentality to be with wife
>aggressively pushes away son as he doesn't want to hurt him
>his lack of support is what hurts shinji
>his wifes spirit gets pissed at him for hurting shinji and rejects him from instrumentality
are those galaxies being born from the friction of the two spirals?
what a waste of time that was.
>for a guy who was evil for evil's sake, here's hakumen no mono
that's how he/she was literally born, from a guy who had almost nothing but hate
>>his wifes spirit gets pissed at him for hurting shinji and rejects him from instrumentality
when did this part ever happen? He won.
gendo wasn't supposed to be a villain.
yes those are galaxies.
and mind you i loved hakumen, he was evil for no reason other than jealousy, so he decided to just fuck it and have fun destroying everything. and he actually kind of scared me when watching the anime, none of that i'll let you live for now bullshit, he was always in for the kill
He is not tanged in the film.
He gets bitten in half by unit 1 before he could turn into orange fanta, I always took it as he was rejected from instrumentality.
>Forces son to almost kill his school friend
>Brings about instrumentality, ending the world and forcefully making people meld together, even if they don't want to
I always saw him as the villain, there's nothing really any other character who is an malicious as him
>are those galaxies being born from the friction of the two spirals?
yes but they are not being born from the friction but they were being sucked in.
>that eye scene
man when was the last time a villain had such conviction?
He was pretty much /r9k/ in digimon form.
every scene with hakumen was fucking amazing, the VA did an incredible job.
As a kid I loved Beelzemon, even when he was murdering Leomon, but that was mostly because it was my first experience with an antihero and because he was an absolute badass rather than because of his good points.
After watching Digimon Tamers again when I was older, I could actually relate after going through self-blame, self-loathing, and self-imposed isolation for years.
Same with Juri/D-Reaper except I didn't find them as badass when I was a kid.
Saving countless lives by dramatically decreasing the world crime rate and ending wars means he was pretty damn right. No one offers a convincing rebuttal, just "dude you're evil" and "Well, I disagree and so does specifically everyone else in this room, so you lose. Hah."
Virgin Genome vs Chad Simon when?
You're explicitly asking for some gud Tonegawa speech and here you go.
He was a cunt because he was a nip and was moving towards creating a totalitarian regime, but i'm still with him. I would use the book.
I think you're coming at this like there needs to be villain.
when I watched eva I just saw it as a collection of fucked up human beings trying to make it through life not a cast of hero's and villains.
this guy or squealer are best villains
he was right
I know that, but if you look at it objectively, Gendo lays down a lot Of The groundwork for instrumentality to occur for his own selfish reasons and while this isn't the end Of The world, it basically knocks humans back evolutionally.
Plus he was fully aware Of The effects second impact would have, he accepted that humans may go extinct if the angels won just to fit his own selfish needs and while that's what everyone in evangelion tries to do, they do it without the risk of human extinction, making his intent the most villainous in my mind.