Remind me why Kickstarter/early access is bad again?
Wasteland 2 Torment 2 (early access build) Chivalry Medieval Warfare Divinity Original Sin Kingdom Come Deliverance (what I've played at least) Shadowrun Returns/Hong Kong Satellite Reign Grim Dawn Xenonauts Darkest Dungeon Shovel Knight Legend of Dungeon Guns of Icarus Online Gods Will Be Watching Among the Sleep (first person horror game from the perspective of a toddler) FTL Superhot Sunless Sea Octodad Dadliest Catch Sir You are Being Hunted Contagion Ravaged Hard West Lifeless Planet Organ Trail The Escapists Insurgency (failed Kickstarter but got a build out in early access and funded development through that entirely) The Banner Saga
Even if you don't participate, if you have enjoyed a single one of these games, you have benefited from crowdfunding.
99% of those games are shit They're also cherrypicked from hundreds of EA titles that will never be out of EA and will always be an unfinished, buggy mess
Xavier Watson
Because for the all succeses you posted there were about, 20 wanted failures
Leo Price
What notable games failed to deliver outside of Pathfinder Online? A game that had TONS of red flags?
Go look down a list of crowdfunded games and it's literally a list of "good indie games"
These are all Kickstarter m8, I only put Insurgency on there because it failed to get funding.
Xavier Ward
crowdfunding in theory is literally just investors on a much smaller level. The issue is that for every successful campaign, there are 5 that are plagued by issues involving concepts too ambitious for 5-10 people. Most established companies that crowdfund tend to use the money well and deliver a product. Those that were created FOR the product usually have no idea how to spend their money. Tim Schafer's game ended up coming out and no one said a peep about it since it was exactly what people expected. Mighty #9 on the other hand is a bait and switch, with colorful amazing concept arts and very bland realization to 3d.
TL;DR Its got the same issue communism has. If everyone did their job well it would be a preferred method of making games. However people suck at making games
I agree with you, but I was on the side of "waiting and seeing" Tim Schafer after hearing what Kotick had to say about his poor budgeting/meeting deadlines
As for Mighty #9, I feel bad for Mega Man fans but why would you fund a project with that little to show?
The games you're shitting on are all big names that exploited their fans. What about the projects made by developers that have no fans? There are very few that get abandoned and most release with above average reviews.
Hudson Powell
Kickstarter takes advantage of consumers by asking them to front the cost of development. Most kickstarter backers are idiots, assuming that they are buying a product up front or acting as true investors. What they're really doing is donating to projects that have no legal obligation to be completed after the backing process is complete.
It's disappointing, really.
Samuel Gray
literally like 3 of those games in that list aren't complete shovelware garbage
Jeremiah Watson
Kickstarter has brought about good games and bad games, the hatred I think comes from the failures being talked about more since backers have more of a stake in it.
Zachary Thomas
You can either willingly take money from people who want to pre-order 6 months-3 years in advance, or you can get some money from some greedy cunt trying to make a billion dollars while also giving him creative input
literally all of those games are above a 70% on metacritic
Jeremiah Campbell
Where did this idea that somebody wanting to make money means they're inherently cuntish come from? Not everybody is EA trying to crush the next Spore.
Kevin Wilson
I'm literally in the industry. When someone gives you a check, they get creative input and most of these investors are not gamers. They look at your genre, look up popular RPG and come back to tell you to make it more like Skyrim. If you don't do that and say "we're making an isometric cRPG not Skyrim", they'll take you to court.
David Taylor
Obama here, can confirm this poster is from the industry. God bless America.
Samuel Nelson
>take you to court Charging you with what exactly? Just curious.
Easton Adams
Oh god you're one of those retards that take metacritic seriously?
Elijah Gutierrez
Alright then look at user reviews, these games aren't "shovelware garbage"
I'd hate to be the bitter jaded faggot that actually believes this.
Breach of contract? Mishandling the project you were paid to develop? We're not talking criminal charges.
Juan Moore
If you sling enough shit eventually one turd will stick to the target.
Kayden Clark
And what's wrong with that? Let the retards back babby's first unity project, I'll back good games with good prototypes/fun public builds
Nathaniel Adams
nobody ever mentions my favorite kickstarter game
Dominic Ward
Because no matter how many successes there are, with every new campaign that passes, there is a huge chance it will collapse before it is finished. I'm not against buying the game if it ever comes out, but I'm not gambling my money.
For every good game, 20 others fail or are a complete scam.
Liam Young
Don't gamble your money then, but at least acknowledge that crowdfunding has directly benefited before posting the Kickstarter is bad meme
And I'm not backing those, and neither are sane people who have any sense at all.
Josiah Stewart
>Throwing money at people that can't actually make a game >Not having the critical thinking skills to support things that actually have a chance
Zachary Nelson
what a vague fucking graph.
Julian Cox
Why is that vague? That is literally the time it took from start of production once greenlit by the publisher/community.
Jacob Wilson
How the fuck didn't I hear about this? This is sweet looking. Thanks user.
Jason Anderson
Sir You are Being Hunted and Dankest Dungeons are trash though, glad I refunded both.
Wyatt Brown
Darkest Dungeon is RNG so I don't like it but people who do love it so I put it on there
But Sir You Are Being Hunted is GOAT with a friend or just a quick survival session. They got procedural generation/loot distribution down PERFECTLY
Parker Powell
>Ambitious Just an empty term that can be construed to mean anything here.
>Only including the time spent before release when MMOs by definition are in a continual state of development >no Ultima Online >only western MMOs
basically.. this is just a jerk off for SC fans to hand wave the ever increasing development time of SC.
Evan Harris
is that which sleeps ever coming out or did the dev just off himself when it became clear he didn't have anywhere near the talent to actually make the game he promised?
Also are you really going to argue that ESO and TOR weren't ambitious? Fully voiced MMORPGs with hundreds of hours of themepark content and $200M+ budgets
Gavin Bailey
>ever growing >added planetary gameplay, tripled the amount of content, added technology that doesn't exist in any engine on Earth, adapting the rendering pipeline to utilize Vulkan/DX12
>WHERE IS MUH GAME THAT WAS 100X SMALLER IN SCALE WHEN IT WAS LISTED ON KICKSTARTER?! SCAM CITIZEN SCAM CITIZEN
Not even mentioning Squadron 42 with an all star cast and a full length campaign (which is using the aforementioned planetary gameplay mechanics too)
William Thomas
Too many crowdfunded projects are just retreads/rehashes from devs trying to relive their glory days. Mighty No 9 is just not-Mega Man, Bloodstained is just not-Castlevania, Shroud of the Avatar is just not-Ultima, Pillars of Eternity is just not-Icewind Dale, Tides of Numenera is just not-Planescape Torment, Yooka-Laylee is just not-Banjo-Kazooie, etc.
Nothing is really original or trying to attempt something new. It's just low hanging fruit for retarded fans that are blinded by nostalgia to be satisfied.
Josiah Davis
In the case of nostalgia for Ultima Online, that nostalgia is justified because the MMO genre became "collect 10 boar assholes: the game" rather than expanding on player interaction (you know, taking advantage of the MMO and RPG part of MMORPGs)
As for Tides and PoE, the industry wouldn't let them make a cRPG so they came to the users and they got money for a cRPG? What's the problem with that? Rare fucked around too long and their platformer devs got pissed and made Yooka
There's nothing wrong with giving people what they want.
Austin Peterson
>Why is kickstarter bad
In the real world, you pitch an idea to publishers so they invest your product so in turn you both make money if the product is succesful. Plenty of Publishers are retars who religious clinge to sales projections which results in shit products and all sorts of faggotry to work around making an actual decent game. Even with this in mind, publishers are still better at discerning what will sell and what won't than the average person.
So the end result is you have people funding bad ideas that result in products not even the backer wants.
There is always that chance of gold where the backers get the game they wanted that the publisher was wrong about, but most of the time the product is shit and backer is left wondering why, while the publisher knows exactly why.
>Early Access
Selling a game before completion means the creator is already making the money he would from a completed game. He now has no incentive to try hard to finish the game and can rely on memeing and a loyal fanbase to continue to purchase the game without ever finishing it.
This happens more often than not.
Benjamin Sanchez
Ignoring the fact that many of these games made 10x their budget once they hit Steam, who cares if it sells or not unless we're talking MMOs?
As for your criticism against early access, don't support scummy one man team devs. I'm not a fan of early access, but I totally understand why someone would use it.
Jackson Hernandez
There's also Serpent in the Staglands. I'm glad devs are working on another game.
>Because for the all succeses you posted there were about, 20 wanted failures
You mean same principle that applies literally everywhere? Only 25% of everything is actually good, 10% or less is extraordinary. Can't argue math.
Daniel Martinez
Well yes and they're clearly pitched as such aka return to good old days. There's nothing wrong with that and I'll take it over some half-assed remakes made by people who had nothing to do with the games originally. It's not like you're forced to back them or anything.
Juan Davis
>Serpent in the Staglands overlooked as fuck crpg. game STILL doesn't have enough official reviews on metacritic to form a score and that's a damn shame. I assume pixelated look throw off a lot of people.
Mason Lewis
If pixel could make a game like cave story without begging for money,then I expect a kickstarter game to be better than cave story at the very minimum. Few if any have done so,which means the ones that didn't were huge waste of money
