>"video games dont need story"
>"if you want story, read book"
>"all video games stories are shit anyway"
FUCK YOU
this series really show what video game narrative capable of.
no movies or books can create or replicate anything like this.
PS: miyamotofags are not welcome in this thread
>Non-porn VNs need a decent story to be good
No surprise here OP
VNs are different from other mediums so it isn't unexpected that they can have narratives that only work on them
The first statement is 100% true
The difference is Zero Escape games have gameplay to them too, on top of heavy narrative.
Agreed, there are good games largely made good by their stories, and there are games with no story at all that are great.
Is this a Zero Escape thread or a shitposting one? I had a question about 999's plot and no other thread is up.
Video game dont NEED a story. But it's a welcome addition to some genres.
>genre based on story and puzzle
>needs a good story
>has a good story
Are you retarded? Some games need good story, not all genres.
I enjoy games that are narrative-heavy like Ace Attorney, but I treat them like a good book and not a video game.
Sure go ahead I think I know basically everything
Then you're a faggot considering the series only works as well as it does because of its gameplay. The fact that you have to figure out the case alongside the characters and the penalties make it much more exciting than it would be if it was told in a non-interactive medium.
I cant bring myself to finish vlr
I did one path all the way through but its not as gripping for some reason as 999
is it this slow at the beginning for everyone? Will I be hooked if I play more paths?
Yes, it starts out slow, but it really hooks you when you start jumping timelines and realizing the differences between timelines and how some knowledge seems to flow between them. The mid-game twists are far more wild and insane than 999's.
Which path did you do?
It's a simple one, actually, and I might've already gotten it while I was typing. Why did there have to be a password to the coffin? Why couldn't they just set it up to open at the right time? Is it to create a sort of VLR-style "lock" to make Junpei go down the other route to gain knowledge about Cradle first?
Ok I see the story but where is the game?
I dropped 999 because of the cringey slasher fic guro descriptions but picked it up about a year ago and finished it, then played VLR and enjoyed it even more.
Fuck you for this retarded OP about good games.
Uchikoshi even said during an interview that he decided to tell stories through games because it allows the player to choose how they want the story to be told to them. They can choose different paths, go through different routes, explore different timelines and stuff.
It's a way of storytelling that films or books can't provide.
pretty sure op is not talking about "good story" but how you use video game mechanic to create an unique narrative
Honestly it's probably just to make the player feel more involved in the opening of the coffin and the make the Snake twist more impactful. From a story perspective, it seems reasonable to force him to learn about Ace before stumbling upon the incinerator in the True End. But just having it be timed would have felt super dumb.
>Visual novels
>Games
I don't see this shit in the same light as an action type JRPG like Ys
Visual novels are not video games. They are interactive comics.
I wouldn't say it's the greatest story ever told
But I really like how it's a story that could ONLY be told in this exact format
Zero Escape didn't invent branching timeline stories, you know
this one actually is a video game tho
In the same way a Choose Your Own Adventure book is a video game, sure.
I know you're just shitposting so you don't care, but there's around 15 hours of puzzle solving between the two games. No puzzle game is a game if this isn't.
Choose Your Own Adventure books had him beat there decades ago. Clearly someone's gotta get off his island every now and then.
Correction: it's a CYOA with a bunch of unnecessary hoops to jump through. If I wanted puzzles, I'd play Tetris.
those aren't even remotely the same thing.
You can't return to a previous story segment and find out the pages are different now because you have already read another segment.
999 is like evangelion, nothing makes sense once you hit the real ending, still enjoyable and a great game but it goes full evangelion
you are not even trying anymore
All three statements are 100% true
What doesn't make sense? Name at least 3 things.
>he didnt play the game
it's obvious by this post. it's not just le pick a choice like telltale games. it use hardware and gameplay mechanic to create mind blowing twist.
Is there CYOA book where it turns out every left page is actually told by the perspective of a completely different person without you realizing it? That would be pretty cool.
VLR's twist was fucking retarded. Shamalan tier of retarded.
I really like the zero escape series but the quality of the narrative and shit isn't even close to a really good film or book, which isn't a problem as games are the least narrative of all artforms. I did really like how in 999 how the ds itself is a thematic extension of the narrative.
Everyone else seems to understand it, user. I think you may not be the brightest bulb.
which twist
there were like 28 of them
I agree that it's retarded to say story in games doesn't matter just because books have better writing but VLR completely regressed in plot and atmosphere.
VN is not video games
>the quality of the narrative and shit isn't even close to a really good film
Which movies even come close to being on par with 999 as mystery stories?
And yet, both hilariously and ironically, neither title is trotted out in discussion because the hipster outsiders trying to force the "games are art" meme to normies are pushing Gone Homo and Life is Strange & other indie trash instead. It was never about legitimizing the industry, it was about pushing indieshit to acquire government grant easybux while churning out shit to the lowest common denominator
VLR had a better plot, though.
>atmosphere
Why? Because it doesn't have le grimdark brains look like spaghetti descriptions?
VLR was still a much darker game at the end of the day.
Clearly you've been reading the kiddie CYOAs. And I'm not spoon-feeding you to tell you what the good ones are.
Movies are shit tier. That's why TV is getting more and more popular. People are tired of tiny stories that are squeezed into 2 hours with the same intro, mid term and grand final shit.
Movies have had much more time to grow, and there aren't expectations for movies to have 10+ hour narratives like there are with games. Weird movies that go against the norm are now acceptable in cinema as relatively mainstream, but the same can't be said for games. Even this series isn't nearly as mainstream as many games. So if the financial risk is too high, developers can't be experimental. Again, that risk isn't the same in movies.
I would say this is closer to a book, although still distinct. But books have also had hundreds of years to evolve, and developing a book has little financial risk compared to a game. Games can't afford to be experimental and have truly wild narratives.
>twist
See Twists are cancerous as hell.
>Why? Because it doesn't have le grimdark brains look like spaghetti descriptions?
Actually, yes. Saying it in a stupid way doesn't make it untrue.
A story without twists is like sex without an orgasm.
That's gimmicky but doable, I don't think any book has explicitly attempted it that I'm aware of but if it was your goal it would be pretty easy to create. House of Leaves comes closest, where there's four different narratives intertwined and it's visually separated to the reader with four different fonts
Good riddance. Those descriptions were cringe shit found in deviantart guro slash fics
VLRs plot killed itself with inconsistency because of the format. You could play some routes first only to get backstabbed for something you didn't even do yet in the other routes. Easily avoidable by needing to unlock certain routes by finishing others. I think the shit tier 3D models and the shitty environments made the atmosphere so shit.
Sometimes, you just want/need to pump hard without spooge.
Do you not remember the opening?
Sigma and Phi had been jumping already, before the game even started. Who knows how many different timelines they had gone through already.
Only if you're someone addicted to novelty.
>Movies have had much more time to grow
> But books have also had hundreds of years to evolve
I'm fucking tired of seeing this excuse used to defend shit writing in video games. Literature and film don't just get worse the further back in time you go and some of the best written video games are decades old at this point.
>You could play some routes first only to get backstabbed for something you didn't even do yet in the other routes.
user, that's the point! Phi is jumping along with you, but taking a different order. The only other time people switch their vote is the first Alice and Tenmyouji votes, which is done because it's supposed to shock you, but narratively it's always stated because future events shape the past.
>You could play some routes first only to get backstabbed for something you didn't even do yet in the other routes
Literally the entire point.
Just stop, don't search for logic or arguments where there are none. This particular event was a direct reaction for a choice in another one. If you played the other route first it hit you good, if you didn't it didn't make any sense at all and was just retarded.
Name a good story without a twist. Any medium, doesn't have to be games. Granted, you're going to pick something I don't know about, but twists are the foundation of good storytelling. If you lay out the plot, and then just execute it straight, then you haven't really even told a story.
>it didn't make any sense at all and was just retarded
And Sigma comments on how it makes no sense. Because it's not supposed to make sense until you do the other route.
The order where it doesn't make sense is the intended order.
But they do get more experimental, because it's more acceptable to be experimental, and because it costs less to do so.
>I allied Phi in the 2nd AB Game in her route before betraying her.
You just sound mad. Like I said, Sigma had jumped through timelines before the fucking game started. What do you know if he did shit in other timeline and forgot until you re-do that timeline in the actual game and retain the info?
Now the classic VLR defense force that tries to find reason in every plot element arrived. Yeah, continue to try to explain to me how it made sense that Sigma never noticed he was an oldfag. Fanboys are just horrible. You need to get staked up and burned alive.
It's not our fault you can't understand high school-level storytelling.
In a fresh savefile, if you get betrayed by Alice first, you get shit on by her for picking ally like a dipshit. Then if you go back and betray Alice, Sigma berates her for picking ally and not betray.
Now if you actually betrayed Alice first, Alice gives you shit for betraying her. Then if you go back and ally her, Sigma gives her shit for not picking ally like she did before.
LITERALLY the entire fucking point of VLR was that actions in the future change the past.
It's literally said in the game intro.
overrated shit
have to spend long stretches of time fast forwarding through dialogue I already read to painfully extract new tidbits of information
>get told
>w-well you're all retarded anyway
Nice ad hominem. Got any more solid arguments?
Shit tier writing that relies 100% on plot conveniences.
Fuck off jammy
maybe, but how would you know
you're literally too dumb to comprehend it
That's Danganronpa you're thinking of.
It's easily comprehensible how shit it is. Not my fault your fanboy sense can't make you see flaws.
It's okay, buddy. If the game was too intellectual for you you can always go back to your Persona or Danganronpa
You don't even need to be smart to understand it
You just need to not be a literal drooling retard
>talking shit about Professor Layton
Nigga I will fight you
Your are the kind of guy who plays porn VNs with a "deep plot" and feels a sense of superiority for browsing Sup Forums.
>projecting this much
Haha nicely done user
Just one thing I don't love about ZE is that many characters are just infodumps for theories and stuff.
They just go "hey, you ever heard of this theory/story/project? No? Well, let me tell you about it in the most basic terms I can"
you still dont understand the argument. play the game first then comment coz u sound like retard now. it's not about picking choice or what's good or bad. in the end there's only one ending that matter(non-true "ending" are just parts of whole story) but it's the narrative that's important here
Ahh, the projection buzzword. Basically confirming it's true what I said.
>Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important.
Do you agree with him?
Nah. Games don't *need* a story. That's why you refer to them as "games" and not "stories".
Im not the guy you were talking to if it wasnt clear enough, but sure you won buddy ;)
Carmack is a literal madman, you should disregard anything he says
no, boss fight without good story build up will never give me this feeling.
So you felt addressed by my description and pulled out the projection meme? Nice you.
>narrative capable of
>s-schrodinger's pussy
>4th wall being
There are movies just as bad.
>movies are just motion picture they dont need story
>just add fun action scene and explosive
hello mr.bay
no
Depends on what you mean by 'story'
Doom wouldn't be nearly fun if the guns weren't guns and the enemies weren't demons
What a dumb argument.
Oh man, time to read this again.
Is this that one Ootsuka Reika thing
I don't remember the part about him dying
He didn't died. There was even a sequel.
That's why I was confused
Nah, Digital Devil Saga has about the best narrative in gaming. It brings together narrative, gameplay, music, visuals, etc, in a fantastic sci-fi setting. One of my favorite games of all time.
The only flaw is that it IS a duology, so you'll have to play both games to understand it fully.
How is it bad for the player to be involved in the story themselves?
And that the second sucks.