>we need ideas for the settlements in our post apocalypse game
>hmmm
>Oh I have an idea. The survivors built city around one of the bombs that ended the world
>BRILLIANT
>but here is the twist, the bomb hasn't activated yet and could explode at any second for all they know
BRAVO BETHESDA
>we need ideas for the story in our game guys
>we need ideas for the settlements in our post post apocalypse game
>Oh I have an idea, the survivors settled in a hotel
>Just a hotel, but it has a wooden dinosaur, Oh and 3 cabbage patches.
>PROMOTE THIS MAN
>They survived trading useless bomb scraps scavenged from an endless bomb factory just up the road.
>LITERARY AWARDS
>It was protected from all raiders and mutants and the Legion by only 2 snipers. The town itself is not fortified in any way and has multiple access points, and their sniper perch has a massive blind side. To wit, they were able to kidnap the sniper's wife from under his nose.
>WRITIIIIIIING!
You make a good point actually.
I should have mentioned the 200 years thing, but thanks.
>Obsidiots will defend this
Where does their food and water come from? I know that the town has some sort of water purifier, but there's no nearby body of water to even purify.
>we need ideas for our post apocalypse game
>oh i have an idea, let's make fallout 4
you can't make this shit up
on a scale from 1-10 exactly how stupid are you?
>the world is so fucked up, what can I do to fix this?
>Oh I know, I'll raise an army of savages to march across the country murdering, raping, enslaving people, and destroying any technology we come across
And people sided with him.
Any answer I could give you would be inherently biased.
>TECHNOLOGY AND SCIENCE IS EVIL WE SHOULD BE ROMANS
>UNLESS IT CAN SAVE ME FROM CANCER
Caesar hated politics not technology, politics is what destroyed the world. In a really messed up way siding with him or house makes far more sense than the NCR.
Mass genocide and enslavement isn't really a good alternative to politics.
> We should be Romans
> the civilization who, at the time they were the dominant empire, was on the forefront of technology in all forms
> but I hate technology!
>we need ideas
>lets just steal everything from previous games in the franchise
At least in Tactics the people living next to the live atomic were ghouls who worshiped it and knew how it worked.
As much as I don't like Bethesda's writing, that's not actually a bad idea.
The whole Atom/Rads worship thing is one of the better things they've done.
The Church of the Children of Atom finds this offensive.
Serious question here: It's established that vegas was rebuilt and civilized when house woke up. The rest of the mojave was pacified and had infrastructure like the aqueducts laid in place by the NCR.
Both of these things happen less than 10 years before the game starts, meaning over 190 years after the bombs fell.
Considering the Mojave was
1) basically unscathed by bombs or radiation
2) Basically free of super mutants and ghouls
3) Covered in somewhat fertile, farmable land and a MASSIVE source of clean water
4) With a BIG, UNTUOCHED city in near pristine condition smack in the middle of it:
Why the fuck is it almost entirely uncivilized for 190 fucking years? No infrastructure, just random ass settlements that had to trade for their water and a pile of feral squatters dominating the perfectly preserved city? Staying like this until House and the NCR came along and finally made people get off their ass?
I mean, at least the Capital Wasteland had the excuse of being
1) devastated by bombs and heavily irradiated
2) spawning endless amounts of super mutants
3) with no fertile land or clean water sources
And it was only a little worse off in terms of progress than the pristine Mojave area.
>Lets add a giant jet engine gate that opens when you come towards it
>But this only happens once, but it must happen.
Reminder that the Sup Forums favorite Obsidian quest of "Come Fly with Me" is literally a worse version of the FO2 questline of the Hubologists.
Literally no one likes that quest, though.
Like hell you fags don't. It's one of the most mentioned quests when people talk about how good quests are in NV and I fucking hate it.
A lot of quests were tedious and stupid in NV.
But thats no different from most rpgs
Do you mean the design? It's a back and forth fetch quest, it's pretty bad.
New Vegas was built off the bones of Van Buren so it's not surprising they lifted something straight from 2. Who needs creativity when you can recycle old unused material, or in the case of Bethesda not so old, used material.
I mean the story, which is almost a straight adaptation of the hubologist quests, except the F2 team had the good sense to NOT tell the player that they made it to magical radiation paradise and then came back. They left it ambiguous.
But it's already used material, from F2.
And I like NV, to be honest Van Buren had some cool ideas but overall sounds way worse than what we got.
It was set up as a farming and trading community along a major trade route, and as such only has a few dozen people.
Considering the war was five generations before any of them were born, they aren't survivors. They're immigrants and refugees who built a small town together.
Novac was barely more than the collection of houses behind it prior to the establishment of New Vegas. It's described by everyone who lives there as a tourist boom town and more than half of its residents are from the NCR. The scrap trade (which dealt with engine parts, not bombs) barely sustained the even smaller place prior to its establishment as a tourist trap and waystation. The only raiders and mutants in the area are the Vipers and some molerats, the former of which are far from the town and the latter of which are fucking molerats. If the frumentarii can infiltrate the Strip and plant a deep cover agent as an NCR officer, it stands to reason they could easily infiltrate Novac with the help of its defacto mayor.
House puts way too much trust in you imo.
Hes supposed to be intelligent and cynical. Why doesn't he give you a couple of body guards that will kill you if you try to fuck with him?
>>It was protected from all raiders and mutants and the Legion by only 2 snipers.
There's also an old lady with nothing to protect her but 4 dogs 200 yards away from Novac. And another 300 yards away from her is a NCR power installation.
It just means that the Legion hasn't gotten around to raiding those places. Or they scouted out the town and figured that there was no serious profligate behaviour going on there to bother, and that the two snipers could be dealt with later.
There really isn't anything the Legion would find objectionable at Novac, except for Boone. There is no drugs, no NCR presence except for two former soldiers. Novac is a settlement that they would want to take whole.
Anyone could easily infiltrate Novac. The entire area is open, you can walk up there and the snipers have at best 180° of vision.
Honestly the legion should have taken out novac instead of searchlight.
Fucking novac was a waste of time.
For the same reason the Brotherhood accepts you as a full fledged member after testing you with a couple of fetch quests and even joins forces with the NCR, RIGHT after Veronica has to abandon them because they're willing to go extinct before recruiting from the wastelanders or teaming up with other factions.
The game says as much, too. It's described as "a low-priority target" during its ending slides and its meagre defenses are completely overrun even by the token force Caesar sends there. Boone and Manny are meant to warn the town and harass scouts more than they are to defend anyone, and Ranger Station Charlie/Helios One protect the town's northern and southern borders. REPCONN was "safe" until recently, which is why it's such a problem that ghouls are leaking.
Why do people feel the need to bring up Bethesda's shitty writing?
It's like complaining that shit stinks. Everyone knows already, faggot.
Yes, and?
they wouldn't have been able to settle at cottonwood cove if they didn't take out searchlight.
>Anyone could easily infiltrate Novac.
Why would you? Novac isn't important. You'd be better off winning the battle elsewhere and then sending 20 good men to inform Novac that someone else is in charge.
Because you're discreet. He says that. He can't have a huge ass army go after the chip otherwise he won't get it.
>200 yards
>300 yards
You do realize the map isn't real world scale, right?
Obsididrones trying to feel better about their dying company.
Just let them laugh now. In a year or so they'll be crying.
Are you a bethesda fanboy that gets upset at threads like this user?
You seem perturbed.
>Covered in somewhat fertile, farmable land
but its not. its a desert.
before house woke up the only people around were the khans really. everyone else lived far away from a fucking city in the middle of the desert with sand and sand and sand and sand and
I agree that its very strange that no one looted the city. But no one being around makes adequate sense. These kinds of areas were not densely populated, if at all, before modern times.
>Hi! I'm retarded and can't read! I'm going to make a post that broadcasts this fact!
>Yay!
>Why would you? Novac isn't important.
Raiders will attack anything. There was a nightkin standing on the town border for days killing cows nightly and no one did shit.
>couple of fetch quests
Yeah, neutralizing a ranger, tracking down their scouts, recovering the logs of dead paladins (one squad stuck in Boomer territory), recovering the parts to fix their failing life support system, then trekking up to the irradiated, mutant infested Black Mountain or wiping out a shop full of high-tech hardware-wielding crime family is a series of paltry tasks on par with fetching a hunter an increasing number of animal appendages.
>You do realize the map isn't real world scale, right?
That's some non-Euclidean shit right there.
The average wastelander could do fuck all for them, they were in need of people who can get shit done. Their bunkers can't sustain a huge population and they were in open conflict with the NCR without your help.
>but its not. its a desert.
Desert supports plant life, user. And they literally do farm on it.
>These kinds of areas were not densely populated, if at all, before modern times
It was LITERALLY LAS VEGAS. And it did not get hit by bombs. Are yous seriously saying people wouldn't flock there?
NO IT WAS A CHUPACABRA WITH A BLUNDERBUSS THWT SHOT BULLETS OUT IF IT'S BACKPACK.
Fuck i hated that old fuck
o wow user u sure showed him wats up
I don't think I've ever seen anyone on Sup Forums speak highly of CFWM. It's often mentioned in vidya PTSD and triggering threads.
WE WUZ ROMANS
yeah but the question is why you, a fucking schmuck courier who is no special person to anyone.
he entrusts you with his big fucking plans. if he didn't trust you then why send you up to his personal suite? who else gets that treatment? you're automatically bumped up to the level of high level dignitaries. whys he trying to cajole you? why not just say "Yeah hey kid sorry about getting shot in the head thats business. But that was an important delivery so here's 500 caps (wow!) I need it delivered now and you're finishing the job"
instead he puts you in the position to fuck him hard.
>Oh, fuck! I've been outed as a moron!
>Quick! I've got to shitpost in response!
the quest is literally three different fetch quests in a row. they make it seem like a real quest by putting the items in places that lead to other, completely unrelated quests.
All veronica was asking was that they considered the possibility of working together with Mojave factions and recruited talent from outside the Brotherhood. They refused to even try, willing to die for their dogma. Yes, the Courier is more capable than most. But he is still a wastelander. And they DID make an exception for him for no real reason.
Not even the same poster actually.
But dam user u sure showed me wat was up
Cause you got up from the grave and tracked down benny.
You show promise and let's be real, house is pretty desperate at that point.
It's not remotely farmable. The sharecropper farms all required intense industry and greenhouse cultivation, and places like Westside and Freeside only have the shit they do thanks to the NCR's shitty pipelines. The settlements near Lake Mead usually got wiped out by mutants, and the land itself isn't viable for any significant settlement.
Furthermore, the Mojave is a fucking desert. Prior to Vegas and military bases, it had nothing of note besides some "tribal" natives and some mines. Which, lo and behold, is exactly what happened to it after the world went to shit and no one needed tourism or military bases.
>Raiders will attack anything.
The Legion isn't regular raiders. They follow orders. The raids are conducted for military reasons. A raid on Novac would have to have political impact. Is a smallshit little place. Raiding it wouldn't send a message like at Nipton.
>There was a nightkin standing on the town border for days killing cows nightly and no one did shit.
Not quite the same thing. There are no serious threats around that the townspeople couldn't handle.
The only reason Veronica wanted to recruit from outside the brotherhood was because she's a lesbo and that wouldn't be allowed in a faction that gets it's recruits from members having children.
The BoS NV branch was a fucking sausage fest.
>It's not remotely farmable.
EVERY FUCKING SETTLEMENT HAS FARMS.
If it's not farmable, WHAT THE FUCK DID THEY EAT FOR THE PAST 190 YEARS?
>Are yous seriously saying people wouldn't flock there?
How? Civilization is gone. Shits fucked. There aren't travel ads for LV. Most of north america lives at some tribal level and the precious few that have anything resembling an education learn it from crackpot fuckos that found a brochure on something so now they're an expert.
The precious PRECIOUS few (namely the enclave and to a lesser extent, the brotherhood of steel) receive robust educations that are comparable to old world schools. They may have heard of Las Vegas. MAYBE.
Now why the enclave hadn't shown up and jacked everything of value is a very good question.
But as far as why didn't tribals/raiders cross hundreds of miles of bare desert to find a city that may or may not have been nuked, which may or may not have jack shit in it, which they don't even have a map or guide to find..
It's a hell of a stretch.
Desperate yeah but he's been playing his hand of cards for two HUNDRED years. Suddenly when you show up he goes all in trusting you, a random guy that didn't die when he meant to.
>WHAT THE FUCK DID THEY EAT FOR THE PAST 190 YEARS?
Junk food according to Bethesdas mappers.
>The only reason Veronica wanted to recruit from outside the brotherhood
Changes nothing, user.
>How? Civilization is gone. Shits fucked.
From around the Mojave? And it would have a large population there in the first place, that somehow turned into tribal squatters despite having a literally intact fucking city right there, and clean land and water nearby.
They refused to try because MacNamara believed they were on death's door after Helios One and Hardin is a hardline xenophobe isolationist. They open up to the courier because he/she literally saves them from dying in the soon-to-be-tomb that is their Hidden Valley Bunker, on top of assuming practically all of their field assignments. If you actually do make amends, Veronica does appreciate it and considers it, overall, a step in the right direction.
Still a more interesting place than anything FO3.
Saying her reasoning was her sexuality is way more shallow than bethesda wrote it, and homosexuality in video games is usually pretty fucking shallow.
They've been bunkered for a decade with hardly any if at all new members. She's been witnessing them dwindle for a DECADE
Didn't the chip just show up though, pretty sure he lost the chip before then.
The game does enter a power fantasy for the character though, but I mean aren't all games supposed to make you feel like more than an ordinary person.
>If it's not farmable, WHAT THE FUCK DID THEY EAT FOR THE PAST 190 YEARS?
iguana meat
squirrel on a stick
local desert fruits
legacy processed foods from pre-war
bighorner and brahmin steaks
A benevolent family has been feeding everyone with chip food from the sierra madre. That's also why stuff respawns in containers.
>They refused to try because MacNamara believed they were on death's door after Helios One and Hardin is a hardline xenophobe isolationist. They open up to the courier because he/she literally saves them from dying in the soon-to-be-tomb that is their Hidden Valley Bunker
You seriously don't see the contradiction? They were willing to give the courier a chance despite literally refusing to give anyone from the wasteland a chance beforehand. Keep in mind that when you meet them you're more likely than not a nobody waster, not "THE COURIER".
It really kind of shat all over Veronica's questline.
>I mean aren't all games supposed to make you feel like more than an ordinary person.
Yes but this was one of the things that people praised about NV compared to FO3.
While you were still the protagonist of the game, most characters were less likely to treat you like they do in every bethesda game as the second coming of Jesus the moment you meet them.
FO4*
There's a huge fucking difference between farming for yourself and farming for a burgeoning, stratified settlement or civilization. The Mojave does not naturally have that kind of land and the people there do not have the infrastructure to cultivate it. All the farms you see are tiny and self-sufficient save the big NCR ones or the ones enabled by NCR infrastructure like the Co-op.
This actually explains why she was so eager beaver for you to meet the brotherhood.
She didn't even remember the password and the guy was like "oh it's you"
They only give the courier a chance after he either earns an "in" with Veronica or they strap a bomb to him and order him to kill a highly trained NCR Ranger. Your reception is considerably colder if you take the latter route and only warms up after you begin working for them of your own accord.
they give the courier a chance because he has one of the passwords from their lost patrols.
Literally isis.
If the N on the Novac sign goes out like all the other letters do they have to start calling the town Ovac?
>the NCR and Legion are both so desperate to have the courier, a "nobody", on their side that they will even forgive the courier nuking them, you literally don't have to have achieved a damn thing in the game for this to happen
>almost every character in Fallout 3 expects the player character to do something in return for help and doesn't treat you like "Jesus" unless you've actually done worthy of praise
You're full of shit.
Lonesome Road is shit, I agree. I don't see how that has any bearing on the original system, however. Both sides only forgive you so you can fuck House up and shut you out as soon as your allegiance falters. They don't even give you any rewards; they just want to meet with you since you're obviously capable of harming House. Caesar even lists all the shit you've pulled and jokes about killing you on the spot. He only keeps you alive to maintain his technophobic façade and hopefully persuade the obviously capable courier into working for the Legion.
>>the world is so fucked up, what can I do to fix this?
>>Oh I know, I'll raise an army of savages to march across the country murdering, raping, enslaving people, and destroying any technology we come across
More like
>The world is full of savages and cannibals
>eventually the one with the most viciousness and intelligence beats them all into one entity
The type of person who would crucify a hundred tribes of Mad Max style savages and then absorb the survivors into his own army isn't going to be a nice guy who will get along with his neighbours.
If he was prone to your reasoning then he wouldn't have been able to make himself Caesar in the first place. Of course he's a vicious animal of a leader. He wouldn't be leader in the first place if he wasn't that way.
>that somehow turned into tribal squatters despite having a literally intact fucking city right there, and clean land and water nearby.
>clean land and water
land came with water
water came from NCR
but what happened to the original inhabitants of a major city is a good question. certainly many if not most died from starvation and exposure when commerce and logistics broke down along with society
>>the NCR and Legion are both so desperate to have the courier, a "nobody", on their side that they will even forgive the courier nuking them, you literally don't have to have achieved a damn thing in the game for this to happen
The world is full of corrupt or incompetent people. An outsider who produces results is usable.
>ALRIGHT, we Need a idea for a villain.
>the villain can have endless robots and a space station that could kill the Heros!
>...So?
>HE NEVER USES IT TO KILL THE HEROS
>BRILLIANT!
Borderlands 2?
The idea that in Fallout 3 everyone treats the player as "the second coming" is complete horseshit and you know it. Most characters openly mock the player character until they actually do something worthy of respect. I'm struggling to think of a single character that just loves the player on sight in Fallout 3. The best you get is some characters will extend you courtesy due to the fact you are your father's kid.
It's funny, in one thread you'll have people bitching that a big problem with Bethesda games is the NPCs never seem to acknowledge the great achievements of the player character, in another you have people bitching that every NPC worships the player by default. Which is it?
humans
are
raiders
bait
Yup
In that case you forgot
>doesn't shut off the fucking machines that keep reviving you
>doesn't have the machines set up to revive him
One of the only ways the game actually reacts to your choices in the context of the broader world has Three Dog indiscriminately praising your every deed and random people in the street giving you gifts for giving water to the homeless.
>not using the sham to fight you
>or a whole army at the Warrior's arena
>indiscriminately praising your every deed
He shits on you for doing the bad karma thing. His praise is heavily discriminating.
>random people
I'd be inclined to give a stimpak or some food to the guy who's killing super mutants and raiders all day.
>for giving water
Yes, the karma system needs more nuance and to be stricter with penalties are rewards, but if you're the saint that everyone can easily become (karma wise, water donations aside) even if you're an asshole to people, the mere act of you playing the game results in your performing a service for everyone civilized person in the game.
With the ease of positive karma accumulation and people's reactions to you, at some point I just write it off to gameplay, not developer intent.
>Three Dog indiscriminately praising your every deed
Actually, he condemns some of your deeds. Nothing "indiscriminate" about it.
New Vegas has the exact same thing, the announcer just neglects to mention it's the same guy doing it all.
>praises your every deed
But that's wrong you retard.
If you nuke megaton and still manage to have good karma he'll talk shit about you when his megaton dialogue comes up.
Same thing happens if you do something good when you have bad karma.