So, can someone accurately explain to me when is real Ornstein and who is not? Supposedly he was an illusion in DS1, who knows about D2, and his armor in 3 says he went off in search of the Nameless King.
So, who's the real one, and do we ever truly meet him
Bump
The real question is was the plume part of the armour or his hair?
Because the set doesn't have it
Bumperino
I know right. Like how hard is it to just give us the volume on the armor. How would that be his hair I wonder.
*Plume
Some form of medieval hairspray?
Honey?
Apparently Biggie Smalls were both illusions because the real Smough also lives long enough to almost make it to DS3, being the last Knight protecting Anor Londo against the pontiff.
Where's the evidence in DaS that he was an illusion?
People keep saying that he doesn't drop a soul but that's not true, he quite clearly does, it just depends on who you kill last.
>Medieval Hairspray
Kek
DaS1 was illusion. DaS2 was a fanboy. DaS3 is real Ornstein (he talked with NK, put down his weapon and armor and fucked off to be a family man, I guess).
It is speculated that he gave his soul to gwyndolin and gwyndolin made a phantom of him out of his soul. Idk.
It makes sense and explain why O&S were both pretty weak.
>Gywndolyn take a part of the souls of O&S
>Use it to create stronk illusions
>Ornestein go to Heide, and end up being corrupted for whatever reason
>Smough eats peoples until one day, he hears that a sith lord is aproching Anor Londo
What? Where was he in ds3?
>Where's the evidence in DaS that he was an illusion?
iut's mostly just a question of " How can you fight him in Anor Londo, and then later find that he left Anor Londo to look for the Nameless King"
He's not in the game but his hammer description mentions that he's the last knight to remain on his post so he survived DS for sure
Mostly my problem is, that time is convoluted and that the creators make up an "alternate timeline" to create their lore
What if he left then gave up. Also I thought that it meant that he went and found him this being brought to anor londo
I don't see how that implies he didn't die in DS. You quite clearly kill him in anor Londo why would he have to live past that event?
Time isn't linear in the Souls Universe.
Npcs met through out the journeys allude to closely being killed numerous times only to find there way to destination in a tongue in cheek way. The fact that you are whisked to another world by a distinct champion for that linear progression realm further proves the point while the theme and actors are static, the sequence of events and what transpires in one compared to another leaves a butt fuck ton of room for interpretations and potential happenings.
I think people misread things or think way too much into stuff.
>found him this being brought to anor londo
what?
Because he isn't a knight when you fight him in DS, just an executioner. So has to have survived long enough to be knightend, most likely by Gwyndolin, along the line.
Something something time something something fanservice.
DaS1 - *it was a hologram*
DaS2 - fanboy
DaS3 - real
Then what the literal fuck is the Old Dragonslayer
he's an old dragonslayer
fan service
Kill me
Or it was just assumed he was a knight by people who heard about him centuries to millennia later.
Honestly I like the Fanboy cosplayer theory
>implying Smough isn't Aldrich
think about it
when you defeat Aldrich... you get Smough's shit in the handmaiden's store
and who was said to eat his victim's remains after death? executioner Smough
it just makes sense
He's a faggot, just like everyone else in DaS2.
Except for Gavlan.
I dont think he was ever admited among 4 gwyn's knight. I would argue that the word "knight" is used as guardian there. Smough died in DaS1 as a last knight to stay guard in cathedral after Ornstein left.
Guy who liked Ornstein. Or one of Ornsteins soldiers.
>It just works.
I think this is more likely. No one was left to knight him not only that what would be the point since everything fell apart already?
Sorry. I meant that ornstein had heard of the nameless king and went on a mission to become his knight. Basically his origin story as to why he is there.
I'm disappointed you couldn't summon Gavlan for any boss fights.
Why does Ornstein return in every game but not Smough?
Also is Ornstein Jewish?
Maybe the Smough in DS1 was the real deal.
He just used bonemeal for seasoning brah. Never said anything about eating flesh.
Also why would they go into great detail about Aldrich being a priest and all thay
the google app, Coincidence Detector, isn't flagging him as such
rest easy
So you're saying, what? Ornstein went to see the Nameless King, who he "in a dragonless age... left the cathedral" to go find, and then later, because of his training with the Nameless King a guy who sided with dragons so that he could kill dragons, and became a knight and lead Gwyn's knights?
He went to and found nameless in King in old times before said King had sided with the dragons.
It seems obvious to me that you do kill the real Ornstein and Smough in Anor Londo, but because of the warped time thing, there's an alternate world version of him that wasn't killed and went off to find Nameless King.
Just like Old Dragonslayer is probably another other-world Ornstein that winds up in your world. But, again, no proof, so it's best just to enjoy the game.
Playing dark souls one and just killed bed of chaos. When if ever do I learn about the Pygmy? I feel like it's the least mentioned thing in the game besides a ring or two. Why is it even in the game to begin with?
i personally think that after Gwyn went full-Buddhist-monk, Gwyndolin and Frampt were searching for the real heir to Gwyn (his firstborn son,because "fuck that i'm not going to set myself on fire and fight against these bosses"). They send Ornstein on a mission, he found the now called Nameless King, he couldn't beat his former trainer and master died like a bitch.
Meanwhile in Anor Londor Gwyndolin said "hey Smogh! you want to become a Knight don't ya?, just guard the Illusion of Gwynevere with this Ornstein illusion."
also the Old Dragonslayer never happend, and the bridge Dragonslyer armour was something something spellmagic, after Aldrich ate Gwyndolin
But the armor clearly says that he seeked out the "nameless king" in an age without dragons, and when he'd long guarded the cathedral.
Play the DLC.
>>Smough eats peoples until one day, he hears that a sith lord is aproching Anor Londo
I don't why I laughed at that
What if they were phantoms? What exactly are the phantoms? A single entity that traverses time and space or one of many copies from multiple realities?
DS3 says smough was "The last defender of the cathedral" aka orn that was killed wasnt orn since he doesnt drop his soul, only smough does. also explains why smough can hit his body with a hammer and have nothing be left.
There is a second jew snake in the game that is 9in hiding. He releaves more stuff, but you probably already missed your chance to meet him.
If you kill ornstein after killing Smough, he drops his soul
Guys, just accept that the Chosen Undead of DaS1 never accomplished anything.
That's why Ornstein lived to abandon Anor Londo, why Smough is the last to defend the chapel, why Gwyndolin lives to become consumed by Aldrich.
What if chosen undead canonically killed ornstein first thus only capturing smoughs soul?
or maybe powerful souls regenerate over time (like nito/the rotten, bed of chaos/old iron king demon thing, etc), and ornstein's soul regenerated into itself somehow afther CU killed him, and fucked off to Heide, then kept looking for the NK.
so what hapened to gwyn then?
Does Dark Souls 2 assume the Chosen Undead from 1 went with ruling the age of Dark, or restarting everything? It's been awhile since I beat 1.
Why does it matter?
We don't know. Cycles my man !
Curiosity.
So where did gwynever go?
Ive read this like 4 times and have no idea wtf youre asking
Seriously this is my only real answer to these games. People try way too hard to add depth where its not needed
here's how it goes
>Ornstein left anor londo, Smough was the very last real living knight to stay there aside from darkmoon knightess and Gwyndolin
>Ornstein left in search of the Nameless King, his mentor.
>in dark souls 2 we fight an old dragonslayer and he drops an old leo ring, which is implied to be the one from dark 1, but in dark 3 it's perfectly fine good as new
>Old Dragonslayer's soul says he was "reminiscent" of an old dragonslayer
>he could be ornstein, corrupted by the abyss in failing to reach the nameless king, or he could be a follower or imitator
>we find ornstein's armor and weapon in the boss room for nameless king, which implies he actually did make it, but was either struck down or left his armor and weapons behind.
What I believe, is there were perhaps followers of ornstein given copies of his ring, similar to havel.
No Jehovah Witnesses.gif
This is the real reason why the flame always relights. The Flame is a singularity. Only a single chosen undead from an infinite number of universes need to succeed.
So we got
>illusion ornstein
>fake ornstein
>notornstein's armor
>ornstein's last known location
In the end he was actually the only knight we never met?
Illusion in 1. Smough is real, and Ornstein is part of his soul.
2 was someone else entirely.
3 is obvious.
>Npcs met through out the journeys allude to closely being killed numerous times only to find there way to destination in a tongue in cheek way.
On that note, I think about every friendly NPC you meet in DaS1 also has a corpse somewhere in your world where you can loot their gear. Is that for the sake of convenience or more evidence of timeline fuckery?
Maybe they are all different but look the same because dragons are scared of kitty cats.
The flow of time is convoluted, I ain't gotta explain shit.
I think this is the best theory I've read so far.
I think that the fact you only get one soul for killing both smough and ornstein in anor Londo implies one of them isn't real and considering what we know from the hammer smough would be the one who the cu actually killed. Meanwhile the old dragon slayer implies that it isn't ornstein just a look alike/follower. Also I've always believed the Souls and loot laying around on the many corpses you find through the games are supposed to represent who that corpse was supporting your theory that ornstein did find nameless King.
Was it ever why he was looked for him or what his intent was once he did find him though?