> 15K USD
> 15 with three zeros
Holy shit. I was thinking about buying a ship and the squadron 42 combo for $60 but now I'm just turned off entirely by just having that option.
Is this a game to make poorfags feel like shit about their lives, or just there in case some ridiculously rich asshole feels like doing nothing even in video games?
Is this game worth even $20?
>Is this game worth even $20?
If it ever comes out, sure.
It's just a way to milk nostalgia fags that played wing commander games when they were kids but are now making big money they waste on dumb shit. I've not really followed their pricing structure, but there's even insurance and a second hand market for this shit.
Chris Roberts in a leadership position with tons of money just spells disaster IMO, just like how freelancer and the wing commander movie turned out.
Yeah, each package comes with 6 month insurance for your ship I'm guessing.
I guess my question is, does this game leave any possibility for grinding your way to the top, or are you totally fucked if you don't plan to spend at least a grand?
I recall reading that the most expensive ship available for in game currency purchase can be grinded in game with about a month or two worth of playtime.
I'm also pretty sure that these expensive bundles come with life time insurance. Maybe that's just the ones that are only sold for a limited time (thus have a second hand market that appreciates in value).
Ah okay, got it. Thanks for clearing that up.
Their fucked either way. If the grind is easy then they just invalidated all the money people spent to have special snowflake ships. If the grind is hard then nobody will play because of the insured special snowflake ships constantly suicide running into their shitty space clunker special.
Most people who buy these claim they are doing it to fund the game, not that they actually want the ships. I don't know why people would still throw money at it even more now that the game has exceeding it's original goal by the millions.
Probably just a justification to not look like a massive nerd who spent massive money on video game space ships.
"$15,000 will save you approximately one month of grinding" is something I want to see someone bring up to the megawhales.
This is like, Puzzle and Dragon-level megawhaling. At least PAD has waifus.
IDK if their paywall is up but goons are fuckin' obsessed with this game and have basically written up stuff about those guys who spent 30 grand plus on it. it is basically like "i want to live my life in space and SC is gonna let me do that".
I think people like that would buy in at any price.
You mean goons have made up a bunch of shit about the game
N E V E R
E E
V V
E E
R R
they don't even follow EU / UK laws and refuse to give out refunds.
scam company.
I'm taking them to court later this month, only a 70£ fee for me. Going to cost them 20x times that just in legal fees to make a lawyer show up and push papers.
Fuck em.
SON OF A BITCH
You're doing god's work eurocuck
I spent $40 I think back when this first started and have stopped caring altogether.
I'm just going to pretend that I spent that money on booze and move on.
Anyone who tries to defend the star citizen devs at this point obviously have invested thousands into their fake spaceships for a game that is never coming out.
tfw put 1000$ into it and regret
tfw not derek smart and get entire sum refunded without noise
chris roberts has put in a company policy to refuse refunds to anyone asking for them, even if they break the law by doing so.
>Is this game worth even $20?
>thinking its ever going to get released
>Spent $250 on this (about 8 hours wage)
>Playing other vidya and doing other things whilst waiting for release
>Can't help but feel sorry for people who feel like they have to justify their hatred for this game in threads like this
I can understand that people are pissed off, but going on about court orders and shit? Calm your farm, buddy.
You could probably build a very very very small spaceship IRL with that amount of cash.
Last I read about the refund issue, they were offering some. Did they change their policy, or was that refund just for some specific backing period or ship/bundle?
I'm hoping single player will be released by Christmas.
He said in-game currency though, I doubt these 5-figure pre-order bonuses will even be obtainable after the game releases (if it releases)
Some of the variants are not obtainable with in game purchase, and some are no longer obtainable with real cash either.
They offered refunds to people and set a change of date for their ToS which made it harder for people to cry about the fact they donated to a kickstarter and expected a game the next year from scratch.
PROTIP: Don't donate money to kickstarters that you would have a problem with never seeing again
>Some of the variants are not obtainable with in game purchase
Every single thing is obtainable in-game that has been sold, and/or plans to be obtainable.
Every ship or variant that's been sold so far will be buyable in game (using in game currency) or capturable (steal it from an NPC or player)... assuming the game ever gets finished
>waiting for release
but hes working so hard!
Just think of how many delicious steaks you could buy with that much dosh.
Did they change this? I recall reading (a long ass time ago mind you) that there would be certain ships that were limited. I do a google and there's now something called pledge buy back? Is this related to everything able to be purchase with in game money now or was I just remembering wrong?
They never offered refunds to people.
Initially they'd pay people that made requests related to "tough times", and obviously derek smart.
Now they just pretend to not have any knowledge of the laws that specifically force them to issue refunds.
It's a dumb move on their end, i'll be filing a claims case against them in the UK and going to get them investigated for fraud.
There are limited SALES, but everything is planned to be obtainable one way or another.
Pledge buy-back is a system where you can re-buy a ship or whatever that you refunded again.
They allowed it to happen, but its tougher now.
>i'll be filing a claims case against them in the UK and going to get them investigated for fraud.
Yeah, good luck with that one.
>Nobody is allowed time off
The last chump who tried that (filing a claim in UK small claims court) lost, and CIG did send someone to make their case.
Fact is, pledging money to a crowfunded project is not the same as buying a product - it's seen as gambling by most financial institutions, you're taking a risk, you're made aware of the risks before you pledge, and you're entitled to nothing if it doesn't work out.
Case in point, see Paypal's new chargeback rules for crowdfunded projects:
>Crowdfunding initiatives, as well as online gaming sites, are no longer eligible for chargebacks. From PayPal’s perspective, there is little difference in terms of risk between contributing to a crowdfunding initiative or playing online poker. Consumers engage in these practices at their own discretion, and they are responsible for the risk.
> According to a statement released by PayPal, the new rule is specifically intended to reflect the “risks and uncertainties” associated with these ventures.
> Of course, crowdfunding is by nature an unsure practice for consumers. Crowdfunding involves paying up-front for the chance to potentially see a return later, and in many cases, that potential return never materialises.
>This policy identifies crowdfunding and online gaming as inherently risky, and PayPal does not want to invest resources in tracking down funds for consumers when they voluntarily gamble with them.
In short, stop being a little bitch - you gambled on something, so far it's very late (rather than being done for), accept it and move on.
Well duh, I'm filing a case against them to have them send someone to counter it to waste their money.
If they refuse to give me a refund, I'll get them to spend money.
>so far it's very late
Honestly, that perception is mostly due to Chris's inability to give deadlines that he could possibly reach. Its still well within normal timelines for game development, he just promises way too much.
..You're an idiot.
This should be the death of crowd funding but people are retarded.
>he just promises way too much.
It's freelancer all over again.
>If it ever comes out, sure.
even if they fulfilled every promise and included every feature, it would still be shit
No, I'm not an idiot.
I'm not doing this to get my money back, I'm doing this out of spite.
If they won't give me a refund, I'll give them legal costs and having to keep me a customer.
also....
n the European Union, The Directive on Consumer Rights (2011/83/EC) replaces, as of 13 June 2014, Directive 97/7/EC on the protection of consumers in respect of distance contracts.
the following is stated
4.2.5. The binding nature of pre-contractual information “Accordingly, the information provided on the trader’s website should be binding on the
parties and, if the trader wishes to alter any of its elements, he should obtain the consumer’s
express consent”
4.3.4.1. Time of delivery or performance “The agreed date would then constitute the ‘agreed’ time of delivery, as referred to in
Article 18 (see also Chapter 7 on delivery).”
6. THE RIGHT OF WITHDRAWAL
“Article 9 gives the consumer 14 days to withdraw from a distance or off-premises contract
without giving any reason.”
“Accordingly, ’14 days’ in this provision should mean 14 calendar days starting from the day
following the day on which the relevant event occurs (i.e., the conclusion of the contract or
delivery of goods):”
>I recall reading that the most expensive ship available for in game currency purchase can be grinded in game with about a month or two worth of playtime.
there is no game
how much are you in for, commando?
CIG raised $114 million so far. Elon Musk literally made it to space with a prototype rocket for less money.
Thing is the actual game itself is shaping up okay.
Its just he says things are happening by X date but its just such a retardedly optimistic deadline
>I'll give them legal costs
So you don't think you'll be paying legal costs yourself for losing on precedent?
oh, and thanks for being a petty cunt. I'm sure everyone appreciates you wasting the company's money. Next time think about your donation.
>there is no game
Find me a definition of a game that doesn't qualify what is already out as one, friend.
I'd be fucking impressed if you did.
>They offered refunds to people and set a change of date for their ToS which made it harder for people to cry about the fact they donated to a kickstarter and expected a game the next year from scratch.
They actually fulfilled the refund requests for a span of two months or so, because Derek Smart backed them into a corner. Nobody expected the game after a year, but they expected something other than Roberts blowing $60 million on unusable mo-cap and playing director with AAA actors, then fucking off to the Monaco Grand Prix and his own vineyard on Capri while nothing that isn't utterly broken has materialized after 3.5+ years.
Game is in development hell, dont touch it with a ten foot jpeg, even for $35.
I literally only have to pay a £70 fee to litigate them.
It's pretty much a straight forward case, CIG might have changed their TOS, but their ToS is not the agreement (trade) that was conducted.
Neither can they decline the 14 day refund period, or claim they cannot issue refunds after 14 days, because the definition of said law is that goods must be delivered before the clock starts ticking off those 14 days.
Technically every UK/EU citizen that has pledged/bought from CIG directly from their website can issue a refund claim, ACCORDING TO LAW!
How much was your pledge for?
>15k to the power of 0
sounds expensive
>what is already out
lel
bet you feel like you already got your money's worth, yes? or are you not an actual whale, but one of the reputation management people they hired with backer funds to try to make it seem like the project isn't already irrevocably damaged
No, it's a eye opener for the ignorant masses of what real game development is like - it takes years, it has major issues, it has long & unexpected delays along the way.
In credit to CIG, they've been extremely open all along about what they're doing and how development is going, people can follow everything, and most of the people crying foul are doing so because of how long its taking to do everything. The masses assume that because their favourite franchise pops a new game every year or two, that all AAA games take around 2 to 3 years to make.
The average gamer just doesn't have the patience to wait for a game if it takes longer than 6 months from initial hype trailer to release.
Nice deflection!
way below the legal costs they'll have to pay to employ a lawyer to counter my claim.
It's why i'm saying i'm doing this out of spite.
It's more of a case of principle. And to set the bar for the ones that surely will try next when i shitpost this at derek smarts forum.
They already fulfilled their promises, and are in the clear regarding Kickstarter conditions. Also, they've already delivered a substantial portion of the game, so you can't claim it hasn't been delivered. Maybe if you asked within two weeks of the Persistent Universe going live, but you didn't. You don't get to buy an MMO, play for the free month, and then demand a refund seven months later. That's not how the law works, and trying to twist consumer protections laws to threaten money out of them is fraud.
Yeah, so I was right.
Petty cunt, indeed. You won't get your money back, and you'll just have wasted everyone's time and money.
I'm sorry that you're so anal blasted that your £35 donation to a kickstarter hasn't been fulfilled. Be a responsible adult and check the URL of the site next time, because "kickstarter" should have rung some bells up there.
>In credit to CIG, they've been extremely open all along about what they're doing and how development is going
then why is it that i have to learn about dropped features and blown release dates by derek smart's inside sources? cig produces dozens of hours of video a week, but none of it offers anything but a pitch for the next sale and promises of features that never come.
>justagamemode.com
>he thinks a broken pre-pre-pre-pre alpha with no features, literally hundreds of crash bugs, broken animations, broken physics, and 7FPS on an $8000 2016 PC that shits itself when more than three people try to play at the same time is a "game"
Derek's literally insane and 90% of what he says is never backed up or turns out to be completely baseless.
I have no idea why you're actually putting any kind of stock into that Soprano sounding moron.
Still haven't defined game for me, champ.
That's what brits are like. They're incredibly spiteful and passive aggressive. Try dealing with them when they're anywhere abroad in Europe.
I sincerely hope they withdraw from the union so they'll hopefully have to go through more trouble to come throw up in the streets while hassling the locals here. I'd rather have niggers and muslims than brits.
>they already fulfilled their promises
Son, I don't think you realize how a trade works.
They made a sale, it's a mutual transaction.
I'm not pledging, I'm purchasing.
I'm not filing this with kickstarter, I'm filing this with their website (store).
That is how the law works, kid.
Lets say you buy a landmower that costs £500 from a random store online.
They send you the generic "14 day warning notice" at day of sale.
14 days passes, you have not received product. Are you entitled to a refund still?
Yes.
another 14 days passes, are you entitled to a refund still?
Yes.
3 additional days passes.
Product has not been shipped, and obviously not been received.
Are you entitled to a refund?
obviously, yes. and by law after 30 days you can FORCE a refund.
sure it might be 'scummy' to file a refund against CIG, but who the fuck cares. They gotta play the rules like all other merchants.
No delivered goods (per agreement ) = refund elligble
product differs from initial agreement = refund elligble
Changing your ToS doesn't change any of this.
>I'm not pledging, I'm purchasing.
literally wrong, right off the bat.
Perhaps you should actually read those terms of service by the way.
You're the one who is wrong, friend.
I did not pledge a kickstarter, I made purchases from their website directly.
what was it, strictly speaking, that you purchased and they failed to deliver? You're demanding a refund, but for what? What did you spend money on?
Be fair here, kick starter is not a donation, it's advance payment for a product and US courts recognizes it as such. Kick start actually does not allow donations technically (even if pretty much every project has that 1-5 dollar "you have our thanks" tier).
>The masses assume that because their favourite franchise pops a new game every year or two, that all AAA games take around 2 to 3 years to make.
Star Citizen has been in development since 2011. 2012 if considering the change in engine (though that doesn't mean the had to restart from scratch)
Yeah, so you didn't read the terms of service.
They're not purchases.
Hell, they haven't even "failed to deliver".
Terms of service does not overwrite the law.
shit son, that's whats funny.
if they bring their TOS to court they'll get shat on.
>it's advance payment for a product and US courts recognizes it as such
Trouble is it gets real fucky when it comes to software.
Can shit out half-broken stuff thats barely fit for purpose (which was SC even years ago) and they'd still be fine.
They wouldn't have to, they've already won a case exactly like this. Wouldn't go any differently.
They won the previous case becasue the dingus who filed the claim didn't include any laws to WHY he was entitled to the claim.
That and he didn't issue CIG a 30 day notification before the case was filed.
this automatically gives you a penalty when your case gets into court.
Unlike him, I've done this before.
Career moron? Impressive.
>Star Citizen has been in development since 2011. 2012 if considering the change in engine (though that doesn't mean the had to restart from scratch)
They never changed the engine. StarEngine is a modification of CryEngine. Still, the game has barely been in full development for ~8 months, since it took them years to build up the company from scratch and get all their content pipelines finalized. Persistence is now done, so major features like mining, trading, exploration, etc. will be getting turned on very soon, and their cutting-edge procedural generation tech will be spawning tons of new content very soon. Game is in amazing shape considering how little time it's been worked on so far.
Your complete and utter ignorance to the law is hilarious
You have literally no grounds to sue anyone for any kickstarter backed project, or even from purchasing off their website for incomplete products.
thanks, friend.
I'm a perma-neet who do this kinda shit for fun.
you donated money, and that money was spent. you didn't get your NPR tote bag yet because they're still sweing the best motherfucking tote you ever saw. go ahead and sue. the judge will slap you silly for being so retarted.
>I'm a perma-neet
You didn't have to tell me, user.
It basically seeps from your every post.
>Still haven't defined game for me, champ.
you still haven't explained why their "open development" doesn't offer actually information on the state of development.
defend anything from justagamemode.com
i'll wait.
>donated money
>taxes
*rubs hands aggressively*
yes goyim, donations.
You cannot claim donations unless you're a non-profit organization / charity organization.
Thats your second deflection.
Really simple request, goonie.
this is your fifth.
and i already said a broken, featureless alpha that crashes every five minutes isn't a game.
FUCK OF BERSERK SHART
STOP ENDANGERING MY INVESTMENT WITH YOUR LIES
NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY LYME OF DEFENESTRATED ANYWAY YOU JEALOUS DINK
>and i already said a broken, featureless alpha that crashes every five minutes isn't a game.
That isn't a definition, and such a thing would still qualify as a game, user.
Not that SC could be called featureless, mind you.
>the game has barely been in full development for ~8 months
wat
Ganbatte your best user!
goons pls go
i love that goons shit on this game because their dead gay comedy forum no longer has the clout to direct community management so they are in control. they tried a powerplay to supllant the mods at the cig forums, and then they got bitchslapped back into their place they all cried and ran to hide under uncle derek's skirt, but they are so sad and cultish they couldnt just go back to their fading goon valour in eve, and have to keep relentlessly shitting on the game. honestly sad how some people just cant handle an ambitious game that they're not allowed to be in control of. that goes for goons and publishers who are trying to make it fail. sad all around, imo.
Crowdfunding falls within donations/rewards/loans/equity
It is not considered a normal purchase like buying a game.
You have literally no grounds to sue them on. UK law is exceptionally clear on this. You are willingly surrendering money on the promise of a future reward, but there is NO obligation for the other party to obey whatever they promised.
Also, considering they have delivered on making a part of a game even if you could convince a judge that they lied (which they didn't) you would still have no grounds to sue them.
Pedantry aside, the "game" is still hot garbage, and it always will be hot garbage.
>Pedantry
No, it was you saying something pretty explicit and clear and it being fucking wrong, nigger.
Get out.
If they ever were to claim they are donations in court, it'd set them in position to be charged with fraud.
They aren't an entity that is legally capable to claim donations / charity.
Their company simply is not registered in the proper fashion for it.
That is why all of their transactions are taxed, because they cannot claim they are donations.
the word pledge could arguably just be another word for 'donation' in this case, money held hostage because of terminology.
In the eyes of financial status, and law, the transactions that are not omitted to the kickstarter campaign are purchases, for legal reasons.
>You have literally no grounds to sue them on.
what are you, a CIG employee or something?
Or are you mad because I'm simply utilizing a system that is there to be utilized.
That's why I life in east London.
>CiG spends hundreds of thousands to move from affordable Austin TX to ultra-expensive Santa Monica
>now literally five minutes from the convention center where E3 is
>skips E3 in 2015 but promises to blow everybody's dick off with their 2016 presentation
>confirms appearance for 2016
>pulls out at the last minute, claiming that nobody can make the 5 minute drive to show off all of the amazing work they're doing
>Roberts' harridan wife accidentally posts pictures of him sailing in the Mediterranean when he claimed he'd be working on the game in the UK
game is still gunna be great but the optics on this are bad. derp shart doesn't even need shit to go nuts, and this is just handing him ammunition.
I'm a software dev and have been quite surprised at the good progress they seem to be making.
It's very illuminating to see the kinds of unrealistic ideas people have about game development.
nope. getting to justagamemode.com anytime soon? or was roberts right when he said "i get annoyed when people keep asking me 'where is [feature we hyped up for literally 18 months, claiming it was weeks away over and over again until we just stopped mentioning it]?;, well you have FPS, you have boarding in the game now, so uh... there you go."
*rolls eyes*
ugh, you dont have to buy it, stop being such a hater, lol I bet you dont even have a girlfriend lol what a loser.
Probably something about multiple internal and external studios finally working together at "full capacity"
Which is nonsense, since the game has always been in development in "modules". Doesn't matter how small the dev team was when it started, the game HAS in development since 2011 and preview modules being first released in 2013.
I'm not saying that they are dragging their feet, the game is ambitious, but to say that it's only been in "full production" for 8 months is dumb
yeah it's not like the company has been selling those unrealistic ideas or anything
what was the original projected release date again?
the check cleared
>Or are you mad because I'm simply utilizing a system that is there to be utilized.
Well, not that user but I'm certainly a little mad the state gives you any money to waste your fucking time on this kind of thing that you have no chance of winning due to your incompetence, sure.
>getting to justagamemode.com anytime soon?
Well you're not going to define game for me (because you can't) so why would I bother looking at anything you have to show me past that?
Silly little goon!
frogbear for president
also PAAAARP
No idea, what was it?
Either way I'm an experienced software developer so I tend to understand why release dates slip.
Who the fuck cares what Paypal thinks? They're not a real fucking bank. Never have been. I keep waiting for them to decide to take the wrong guy's account so they can get their asses sued off, but they have a very good legal team as they've confiscated the dosh from multiple high profile donation drives in the past.
For 15k, you should be able to meet with the devs, give creative input, be an NPC, and have shit named after you. There are literally people who make less than that a year, so it's beyond obscene to charge that amount for a fucking vide game.