Will it suck?

Will it suck?

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there 100% chance that it will
the moment it was announced we've seen that it was extremly content lacking and everything seemed tryhardy

>babify the UI
>mastery still a fucking mess to explain

Just remove that shit already.

Dunno what I expect from the company that released Bastion, though. Marketing >>>>> Art >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bethesda tier quality>>game design

I don't see how it could possibly be worse than WoD, but I don't expect it to be great either. My guess is 6/10 expansion. Adding a new class will at least provide something new to mess around with that will continue onwards, rather than some shitty abortion like garrisons that we just try and forget afterwards.

>each expansion progressively worse than the last
>"will this be shit?"
what do you think you idiot

>"tryhardy"
this is an actual word someone on Sup Forums said just to fit in

Why post this? Is there something wrong with removing all the useless stats on the UI? I'm sure there's an option to show it still.

Mastery isn't a fucking mess to explain you casual cunt. It's literally one sentence. Removing stats and simplifying the game is the exact opposite of what they should do.

I'd say MoP was like half a step up from the disaster that was Dragon Soul cata

WoD was irredeemable garbage

>Why post this?
To show that Legion has Call of Duty-tier depth and is barely even an RPG anymore.

its in the game data and still available for addon creators to use
why anyone would need to know how much intelligence their warrior has is beyond me, but its still there

i fitted in ur mom and here in Sup Forums way before you tryhardy faggot

>why anyone would need to know how much intelligence their warrior has is beyond me

Exactly. People bitching about this change are so fucking stupid.

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I don't think that's entirely true, MoP was way better than Cata.

It's a passive spell, baked into the stat UI.

All other spells exist in the spellbook.

Mastery used to exist in the spellbook, and then they had the "inspiration" to make it a unique snowflake.

Calling mastery a stat period is pants-on-head retarded, and defending that even living outside the spellbook makes you a retarded blizzdrone.

Honestly WoD lacking either a new class or a new race really killed it for me. Those are things that I get really excited about and keep adding value to the game even after the expansion ends. I skipped WoD and basically the only value I'll get from it going forward is the new character models.

Probably

But I can tame Thok and Juggernaut so I'll probably get it anyway

>It's another "WoW is better when it's complicated and a fucking mess" thread

Move on, NEETs. Go play Dwarf Fortress.

>It's a passive spell, baked into the stat UI.
Most of the time it has a dynamic effect on gameplay and adds more depth to the gearing process.

>All other spells exist in the spellbook.
It's a stat. Why would it exist in the spellbook? Why does that even matter?

>Calling mastery a stat period is pants-on-head retarded, and defending that even living outside the spellbook makes you a retarded blizzdrone.
It is a stat. Are you retarded? And I'm not a blizzdrone, I'm the one who made the thread and is anti-shilling Legion. Fuck off retard.

WoW doesn't need to be complicated or a "mess", it needs depth and stimulation as an RPG for people with a triple digit IQ, otherwise nobody wants to fucking play it.

>garrison shit still in the game

Without a doubt, is there any reason it would even be decent?

How's that official vanilla server coming along?

twitter.com/nostalbegins

Nost met with Blizzard, they're putting together a presentation with details from the meeting to release publicly next week. Still no official answer though.

>Most of the time it has a dynamic effect on gameplay

No. It fucking doesn't.

It's a passive spell with scaling, and after the talent tree revamp, where actual gameplay changing dynamics are supposed to live, it's an archaic joke that needs to be removed.

A stat that for no rhyme or reason outside theorycrafting can determine its usefulness is straight garbage in general. There is literally no excuse for mastery to exist in modern wow, other than to give them another itemization lever to pull.

He's making fun of you.

>MMO game made with depth, stats, tons of skills you have to switch, off-trinity gameplay and meant to appeal to the "intelligent" gamer crowd
>fails miserably, its complete trash, everyone fucking hates it, holy fuck its literally the worst thing in the world, unopposed
Guild Wars 2

>game is nothing but the dumbest fetch quests, no actual thought involved, simpified to fuck "dont step on the red floor" gameplay, all your 3 total skills light up in the order you need to press them, you cant even pick different stats on your end-game gear and its just complete horseshit to play with only one end game raid
>but it looks really pretty and has catgirls and pretty dragon ladies
>known as the best eastern MMO available
Final Fantasy 14

>There is literally no excuse for mastery to exist in modern wow
It's a stat and WoW is an RPG. Removing stats is not how the game will get better.

and?

>Guild Wars 2
>depth, stats, tons of skills
>meant to appeal to the "intelligent" gamer
wew lad

Yes
>Daily quest focused world content again
>Profession 'revamp' just turned them into a daily grind as well
>more dungeon difficulties, dungeons are still shit
>random legendary world drops, can't use them for fuck all since they're restricted from instance and PVP content and world content is faceroll

The only hope there is is legacy servers, and they're not gonna do it, even their stupid fucking 'pristine' server bullshit was pulled, nost devs are probably just getting paid off or lawyered to fuck and back in their 'talks'

>The only hope there is is legacy servers, and they're not gonna do it
I don't see a reason why they wouldn't. It would be relatively cheap and easy and it would net them millions of dollars. I just think they're waiting for Legion to go live before they start making serious announcements about legacy.

WOW was better when there was fucking things to do.

That includes min-maxing, forced cookie cutter is NOT fun, and no one likes it, not even casuals.

The initial questing experience will be well polished and relatively enjoyable. The raids, when not played through LFR, will be ok. Everything else will suck dick, you'll spend most of your time wondering why you're paying $15 a month because after the first fortnight the game is only offering you a couple of hours of fun a week. Just like WoD.

No, because in the history of blizzard they have never once admitted to fucking up.

Also this guy and ghostcrawler killed any chance that WOW would be a decent open world RPG by turning it into a half assed e-sport centric fuckfest.
>muh world firsts
>muh arenas

Ghostcrawler is gone and they're finally going to try and fix PVP, though I feel the damage has been done, just gotta cut this peice of cancer out so we can get consistent, interlinked, MMO world gameplay back again, not this janky psudo-ladder of world first racing every patch and forcing everyone to grind the same shitty content once a day, every day for months on end to remain 'competitive'

>devs currentl "working" on WoW have no fucking clue how to make a good game and what made WoW so fun in the first place

How are people expecting anything than WoD 2.0 from this steaming pile of shit called Legion? How deluded can someone be?

Only thing which could get me back into an active sub are legacy realms for vanilla/TBC.

if it doesn't change 99% of the game, yes.

I wish I could play an MMO that's actually an MMO again.

Is there a private Vanilla server that's replaced Nost as the popular place to play yet?

I'm in the alpha/beta. I can confirm it fucking blows.

It's WoD 2.0, it has a bit more (grinding) content to keep you busy at the start, but by 3-4 months in you'll be seeing another mass subscriber exodus along with 0 content to do outside your weekly lockout.

Hell as you can see from the pic, it's so fucking bad I haven't even launched it since the last update.

>Get a buff to my spell power or movement speed
>I can't even tell what they're at now because they're not displayed

Brilliant

>No, because in the history of blizzard they have never once admitted to fucking up.
Yes they have. In a very recent interview with the very man you posted in your pic, he admits that they fucked up the leveling process over the years.

Besides, them releasing legacy servers wouldn't be an admission of anything. They're two totally different games for two totally different audiences. It wouldn't be an admission of failure more than releasing HotS or Overwatch was.

>Also this guy and ghostcrawler killed any chance that WOW would be a decent open world RPG by turning it into a half assed e-sport centric fuckfest.
Ghostcrawler doesn't work for WoW anymore, he quit in MoP. He was a decent dev, he still posts on his twitter about WoW from time to time and knows that a lot of modern additions to the game like flying and LFD/LFR are shit. The names you're looking for are Watcher/Holinka/Celestalon/Jay Wilson. Those guys working on the live game isn't really a reason why they won't/shouldn't do legacy realms.

>Ghostcrawler is gone and they're finally going to try and fix PVP
Holinka has been the lead PvP designer for all of WoD. He's much worse than Ghostcrawler was. There's really no chance for the live game until these people get replaced with competent designers and devs.

DELETE THIS POST

NOW

Kronos. It's shittier than Nost was and you can buy level 60s so there's really no point, but that's where a lot of Nost refugees went.

I really wanted to punch this guy when he turned paladins into warriors with mana instead of actually making ret fun and interesting, and yes, I was around when they made ret OP as fuck, but that was when they gave us whirlwind and exorcism on non-undead

>He was a decent dev
Ghostcrawler was shit. It's fun watching the LoL community hate their game because of the shit decisions he's making at Riot.

That's not to say everyone else on the WoW team isn't also shit. Game died when Tigole took all the talent to his Titan team. Pity they aimed too high and couldn't deliver. Overwatch is fun in brief stints but I'd have much rather had a real nextgen MMO from Blizzard. Easier to make money selling fake cards and gun skins I guess.

You mean World of Diablocraft? Yes.

That's really the issue. The yes-men still in charge of the game are pieces of shit. If Jay Wilson can fuck up D3 and still have a high position, nay still fucking work there. Something is fundamentally wrong. I wish I could have seen Pardo's face after seeing what Titan and WoW became right as he quit.

>Moved Diablo 3 lead dev and Diablo 3 Legendary Designer to the WoW team
>World drop Legendaries with Diablo tier bonuses
>Dungeons now have Diablo rift style difficulty modes and scaling
>Enemies now get Diablo style affixes in them
>Gear now all has a chance to get Diablo style bonus stat rolls on drop

I like how when faced with the reality that they can't make a worthwhile quantity of content anymore, they just try to RNG the fuck out of what little we have to make it last longer.

He wasn't the class designer, he was the PvP dev. The PvP devs ultimately have very little impact on what happens with the game's direction. They're just there to see what the community is saying about PvP and give that input during meetings for retards like Watcher and Celestalon to ignore.

>He wasn't the class designer, he was the PvP dev.

Ghostcrawlers job was lead systems designer.

Holinka is the PvP designer.

Greg was the lead systems designer

>"Systems design specifically is everything that is not level, story, quest or encounter design. My team handles everything from classes to mechanics to items to trade skills to achievements to UI design, and that includes the game balance."

No, you fell for his lawyering (Mind you, Watcher is a lawyer, in fact he has no game design history prior to blizzard, he was, and still is a licenced lawyer) bullshit, he didn't admit tthat they 'fucked up' they said they ignored it and that boosts fixes everything, as intended, and people are just butthurt.

Ghostcrawler was the PVP head since arena's inception, he might be active on social media, but the poor state PVP went into after arenas were implemented, just because he's a nice guy doesn't dismiss his piss poor game design

>Holinka has been PVP designer
Ashran was good on paper, but failed missirbly due to a lack of scale and scope and the fact its focused more around its shitty minigames then the battle at large

Arenas are a dinosaur, and were never well designed, no matter what they do they cannot make arenas good, especially if they plan on adding more classes to the game like the demon hunter.

so yeah, ghostcrawler did fuck up the game, its going to take years of small steps in the right direction to prune the cancerous arena community we have now and get back to true MMO PVP, aka world PVP, and PVP talents is a step in that direction.

>Greg was the lead systems designer

You mean Greg Street, aka Ghostcrawler?

>posting 2s

Almost as bad as BG pubstars

Meant to quote hurr

Yeah I agree with you, misquoted

People will love it initially, it will be surprising in how many people go back again and enjoy it. Then after the content has been exhausted people will complain it was the worst expansion yet and talk about how the game is really dead this time until the cycle repeats the next expansion.

Obviously.

>
It's WoD 2.0, it has a bit more (grinding) content to keep you busy at the start, but by 3-4 months

But that was the problem with WoD. There was not even enough content for 3 months. Upgrading the artifact weapon will keep us busy for a good time.

In WoD you had nothing to do expect the one shitty daily quest each day. In Legion there will be more variation because you can choose what quests you want to do(the only problem is that you spend more time traveling than doing the quest)

RNG on dungeon loot is fucking cancer. I wouldn't mind some RNG on crafted gear right? Like sometimes you smith that breastplate just right and bam, it's *Masterwork* and has slightly higher stats. That's good. But Blizzard's fucking Warforged, Tertiary Stats, Gem Socket RNG bullshit is fucking stupid. Instead of feeling happy when loot drops you always feel disappointed because it's not the absolute best. Imagine playing vanilla and finally having Asscandy drop only to find out it's got fucking +Spirit and is 10% weaker than someone elses Asscandy because they got a Warforged one.

I really hope that Blizzard doesn't fuck up the daily quest system again. It seems like since Cataclysm they always go extremely hard one way or the other with no middle ground.

>Upgrading the artifact weapon will keep us busy for a good time.

You cap it out with everything unlocked in about 3-4 months, hence why I said it has a bit more content for 3-04 months.

Follow along.

youtube.com/watch?v=9-OIreniI7I

There's the interview where he admits they fucked it up.

>Ghostcrawler was the PVP head since arena's inception, he might be active on social media, but the poor state PVP went into after arenas were implemented, just because he's a nice guy doesn't dismiss his piss poor game design
Whether or not you like arenas is totally subjective. I personally really enjoy, I don't feel like they had a hand in ruining WoW's PvP whatsoever. The competitive/rated atmosphere and gameplay is fun for a lot of people.

>Ashran was good on paper
I disagree. It's loaded with mobs, it's linear as fuck, the map is designed like a shitty MOBA, the gameplay in and of itself was trash, bullshit PvE items all over the place that fucked with actual gameplay, and half the features they hyped it up with never actually made it live. Ashran was a total disaster from its conception.

I'm on Beta and I'm having a Blast so far

You've never been at a respectable rating in any bracket, what do you know? It's not even my screenshot btw.

>I wouldn't mind some RNG on crafted gear right?

Why? You get daily limited crafting materials then get to watch as days and days or weeks or months worth of materials keep rolling the shit stats for nothing?

RNG can fuck off of stat rolls entirely, it adds nothing to the game at all for the players benefit, it is nothing but a cheap trick used to lengthen content.

They just took the good leveling content and turned it into the redesigned daily shit from timeless isle/WOD.

Daily grinding is fucking cancer, give me back my goal oriented grinding, grinding gold, materials for professions to make that sweet weapon, rare as fuck enchanting shit, ect, all those gave me reasons to log in every day and minmax my character, now I can't even play the game without some retarded self insert retard goal, like cosmetic mount farming

50 cents have been deposited.

you can grind artifact power until your eyes bleed user

Keep bragging about how you broke 2300 as rogue priest.
No one cares

>have played the game since launch
>own every blizzard game
>recruited lots of friends
>have never once recieved any beta invite at all and neither have any of my friends who i've played with since vanilla or BC

wow its almost like all of the beta feedback is from retards who haven't played much of the game's history and that's what blizzard goes by, the opinions of fucking casual newfags

>RNG on dungeon loot

Wildstar had this and everyone fucking hated it, what the fuck are they even thinking.

No you cant, it's limited how much you can get per week. Can't have Sally the soccer mom fall behind because she only plays 1 hour a week, that would be unfair.

If you like arenas you should probably try a game more up to your speed, like LOL or Dota 2, which does PVP RPG arena combat way better then WOW ever has.

The strength of MMO PVP is that anything can happen at any time in an open world setting, and thats why WOW fucking blows now, even what remains of world PVP is just one sided ganking.

Wildstar's RNG on dungeon loot was so fucking bad that substantially weaker crafted gear was a better option 95% of the time because you could at least allocate the stats you needed. I remember my guild went through half of the first raid before any of us got anything remotely useful.

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> Bastion
git gud

Damn shame isn't it? But the mouth breathers on the official forums and mmo-c still herald this shit like it's necessary for the game's survival. It's sickening.

Now why would you want to have your own clear, outside of raiding and daily quests, goals? That goes completely against the new crew's philosophy. Remember have bad content reward you too much and everything else RNG.

I remember that, Ghostcrawler led the "offensive" charge at Blizzard, where the design team thought they were better than their customers, which led to the community managers taunting trolls and non-trolls alike.

After waiting the majority of the WoD release, Hazzikostas claimed that flying wasn't important and that they did not plan on adding it to the game. There was INSTANT backlash and people started dropping like flies on top of the already bleeding subs. It became so bad that live GMs opened chat windows with the people quitting. It was beautiful. We put up with so much shit from them, and removing flying was the final straw for the community.

Never got this argument.
I despise assfaggots, but really enjoyed WoW arenas and bgs up until the end of wotlk

>used to make fun of PvE server shitters back in vanilla and TBC
>fast forward to present WoW
>every PvP server in modern WoW is 93% Horde/Alliance and 7% the opposite faction
>if you play as the majority faction you literally never see someone to gank
>if you play as the minority faction you're literally ganked all fucking day with no one to help you

I don't even fucking blame people for sticking to PvE servers these days. PvP servers are a fucking joke right now.

Oh sorry I misread it. But that's enough content for the release. I doubt that Blizzard will make the same mistake again with the patches like in WoD.

From what I have seen (videos I'm not in the beta) the beta has already more content than WoD.

I'm also excited for the new 5 man dungeon system and hope that they will be hard like back in Bc.

I think MoP broke that tradition. Overall it wasn't a great expansion, but it was definitely a step up from Cata. TBC and WotLK both had their flaws, one did some things right, the other did other things right as well. Either way, WoD was a huge, colossal drop in quality following MoP and Legion's more or less looking to be the same way.

MOBAs have BG objectives with PvE mobs everywhere and they give you 6 different fucking abilities. WoW arena is a pure PvP deathmatch and gives you 30+ abilities with another ~15 in macros. The difference is an ocean of depth and skillcap, and completely different objectives/gameplay.

I really enjoy world PvP don't get me wrong, I've spent a lot of fucking time ganking people and attacking capitol cities and shit. Both have their merits and they can coexist with each other.

>babby's first RPG

The UI is now Facebook games tier.

user, it has always been that way. Which is why I detested PVP servers from day one.

Why you're paying 50,000 gold a month*

Or however high it gets in Legion.

Same here. That's why I hated sites like wow census and other addons and shit. It just promoted that mentality and ruined the potential that world PvP had.

On German server you need to pay 92k gold at the moment.

Is this post an admission that the game has been severely gutted and stripped down to a nothing but a shell of its former self? Because that certainly explains the mass exodus of players.

>implying it's not all you need

>WOW arena is a pure PVP deathmatch
Which is true except
>Not every class is designed around damage dealing
Oh fuck but then
>30+ abilities
Half of which are disabled in arenas
Half of which are disabled because they're locked behind talent shit

Be real mate, Arenas are just as watered down as league of legends, it just has a bullshit power grind to make it feel like you're accomplishing something you're really not

And the fact that they removed control as a option class build/design just because of arenas is testament of why they have been nothing but cancer to the game.

Idk, The Rebirth is nice. Some refugees went there.

I had that goddamn motherfucker so much, worst part is how he never owned up to his poor decisions.

stupid korwinposter

No MMORPG Blizzard-Activision makes will ever be good.
Our only hope is the legacy servers. I'm so fucking eager for them to happen.

The fact that this single dungeon has more content then the entire end game of WOD is pretty fucking sad

>tfw more people have probably died in that entrance from searing gorge than in entire ashran
BRM was a real "pvp zone"

>Not every class is designed around damage dealing
Every spec that's not for tanking is viable in arenas, save for one or two really bad specs per season here and there.

>Half of which are disabled in arenas
>Half of which are disabled because they're locked behind talent shit
Only abilities with a >10 minute cooldown are disabled which is. Abilities like Lay on Hands and Battle Res for Druids. Definitely not half the abilities, it's like 5 abilities total that are disabled. Every class still has/had 30+ spells at their disposal.

>Be real mate, Arenas are just as watered down as league of legends, it just has a bullshit power grind to make it feel like you're accomplishing something you're really not
Arenas aren't watered down like MOBAs at all. There's no "power grind" either. The progression is entirely based around your performance as a player and the quality of your teammates, save for the first couple of weeks of the season where you're passively getting your new gear.

I don't understand why people are still playing if you're this content starved.

Between Blizzard saying they hired more people to work on WOW and the team's as big as it's ever been, I'm thinking a lot of the current devs are fresh graduates whose experience amounts to little more than flash and facebook-tier games. It would explain why Blizz feels the need to recycle so many assets from WoD to give the illusion of new "content." I just don't see how an enormous corporation like Blizzard can have so many resources yet put out so little content for a game.