Ludonarrative dissonance

>Ludonarrative dissonance

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What game even uses this exact term

This is a dangerous term because it sounds smart and makes you want to remember it, but it's actually about dumb video game crap

numales like tom jubert used it to demean fun games like GTA

Bioshock Infinite has a big case of Ludonarative Dissonance. And Uncharted has, too.

Muay Thai > Boxing

youtu.be/vMVhNUe-9L4?t=238

I have never heard of this term ever and I can only think that it is some kind of made up term created in the last couple of weeks or so.

Nah, it's not. It's just a fancy word for gameplay and story not connecting properly.

Like, Bioshock Infitine's violence and gore detracts from the story.

And in Uncharted, Nathan Drake is this likeable rogue. Whilst, in fact, he's just a ruthless murderer in gameplay.

It's just a disconnect between story and gameplay, which can detract form the overall experience.

it doesn't detract from anything you fucking retard

do you ride a bus and think that wheels are in dissonance with your walking speed so you can't really enjoy fun drive?

>ooh this movie is good, captured the jungle life perfectly
>but being in this air conditioned theatre with comfy seats creates a dissonance with what the characters are going through and it bothers me a lot

If you're not good at analogies, don't fucking post. This is just embarrassing.

No you idiot
It's focused on a detach from gameplay and narrative, and it's unique to games
Here's an example to help you understand
>fight boss
>beat him easily during the fight
>in the following cutscene the MC is struggling to not die and the boss almost kills you

I don't think you quite grasp the concept.

Are you actually playing the main character in there? Are you controller the gameplay and actual experience?

No

so Ludonarrative dissonance can't occur.

Best example is when you get to hyped up boss, easily oneshot him, but in cutscene you are shown desperately struggling and him effortlessly escaping.

bash your head against a wall over and over

Made up bullshit term
Look here's a term I made up you should know it. "Respirogative Radiance". It describes how games use atmosphere to convey emotions.
See I can make up terms too, literally me right now XD

the only dissonance is you being a fucking retard because the argument you're making is ludicrous and the 'flaw' you noticed goes against the reality of game development

my analogy is completely right because it deals with idiotic observations

Obviously the kickboxer will beat the boxer in a kickboxing bout. The boxer would beat the kickboxer in a boxing match.

MMA > kickboxing > boxing

Faggots like in this threads made bale's batman growl while in costume and made Clark Kent basically stop existing because infantile minds couldn't process good clean fun old comics once had.

>hurrr he just put glasses on why doesn't anyone recognize him

I already made that analogy

you must be the stupidest nigga alive

take for example red dead redemption: John marston wants to escape the life of crime in the story but in gameplay you can go on murder sprees for no reason

The reality of game development is the fact that you never should pull the gamer out of the immersion.

Which ludinarrative dissonance does.

One-shotting a boss and then having you character struggle in a cutscene is fucking bullshit and dumb. And an immersion breaker.

what the fuuuuuuuuuuck

But Bale's growl was cool

>you never should pull the gamer out of the immersion

the reality is that when developers cater to little faggies like yourself the games lose their fun

imagine GTA without sidewalk driving

'hurr why does he still have family why isn't he in an electric chair the monster waaaa'

faggot numale

>against the reality of game development
Devs should git gud and make another cutscene dependig on player hp, with some random plot device letting boss miraculously crawl away.

HAHAHA YOU FUCKING RETARD

But you're always a criminal in GTA. So that argument is invalid.
The GTA world is built around the subversion of reality and as a critique on our real world.

sidewalk driving is perfectly reasonable in GTA.

Why the fuck would GTA remove sidewalk driving instead of building the story in a way for that to not seem out of place? Are you retarded?

GTA sidewalk driving is consistent with game narrative, are you actually autistic?

>you never should pull the gamer out of the immersion.
unless you want to achieve something with that
it can be used as effective tool done right

Shut UP. SHUT UP NOOOOOOOOW.

This whole garbage word is just made up to make Uncharted lookk bad. Phuck off haters. PCcucks forever jelly.

Yes. you're right.
When done well, it's awesome.
Stuff like Spec Ops: The Line and the original MGS and 2.

The GTA devs should stop putting such a focus on story then. If I play GTA 3 and the story is just an excuse to give me more missions in different places then that's okay. If I play GTA IV and Niko keeps complaining about his horrible past when he should be thinking about the present since I just shot like 30 people and then died and got resurrected that's dumb.
If you're going to put a story in a game then do it right, fuck. If your story and your gameplay don't match up then fix them so they do.

you obviously never witnessed a numale narrative

anyway by the standards of this idiotic terminology the gamer is ALWAYS out of immersion because it always finds something to be bothered with.

looking for coherence goes against the very idea of interaction which means freedom.

pointing out video game dissonance is just for the kind of fags who use big words that don't mean nothing

wow, so you noticed there's a relationship between the player and the character, between the puppet and the strings?

woooow

There's a trophy with that name in Uncharted 4 for killing 1000+ enemies in one playthrough.

I kek'd when I found out.

>The GTA devs should stop putting such a focus on story then.


no

you should stop sperging out you fucking numale

gta is fine, it has story, it has fun, it has sandbox, it has scripted stuff, go cry in the corner you fucking faggot

you kick ass a bit, you follow the script, then kick ass some more. booo hoooo

GTA5 was shit because of the story, you numale.

Ludonarrative dissonance goes against game flow and immersion, which is, by definition, what game devs should focus on to make a game fun. Since a balance of these things is necessary.

calling people numales without backing your shit up coherently is fucking garbage and you should just kill yourself.

Devs shouldn't resort to cliche story situations like that in the first place

GTA IV's story is shit and doesn't work. If you like it you're dumb.

I know I'm only the 15th person or so pointing that out, but damn nigga u dumb as bricks

check my 4

it's almost as if this is a ludonarrative dissonance discussion thread or something

>violence and gore detracts from the story

never did to me.
almost every person in the game including enemies is a violent psycopath underneath an idealistic exterior BLM Vox Populi and the city of Columbia itself for eg.
Everybody is beyond help and the only fate is just mutually assured destruction with the help of Booker who is the biggest psycopath of them all

not really defending Infinite, fuck that game. Just never really understood why people think the violence detracts from the story

>the gamer is ALWAYS out of immersion because it always finds something to be bothered with

Even if it were true, does that mean that we should give up trying completely? Because the ideal may be unreachable? You complain about numales but have the mentality of one.

You are actually fucking retarded. That is one of the worst analogies I've ever read and shows you don't understand the term whatsoever.

GTA games don't even have "ludonarrative dissonance". If you kill a bunch of people, you get several stars and have to lose the cops one way or another. Where's the disconnect between gameplay and story there?

And in Uncharted, every enemy Nathan kills is a hostile thug. I don't see a disconnect there either.

>character action game

>Fighting style with less restrictions wins against sport fighting style with far more restrictions
Who could have predicted such a thing

you don't try, you go for the fun factor, cohesion is for the passive.

it doesn't for them either, that's why i said it's a numale thing, like pretending to be bothered with lack of niggers in marriages.

yeah, that's another ludonarrative dissonance style shit thought

taking fault with the obvious

>tfw I'll never be this stupid

Immersion is fun, nothing kills fun more than a poorly thought out story interrupting and undermining gameplay.

>it doesn't detract from anything you fucking retard
When it doesn't, there's no ludonarrative dissonance. As simple as that, dear troglodyte.

Is this a ludonarrative dissonant image?

I haven't posted this image since 2009

Numales claim that video games are too gamey. GTA would be better if you had less fun.

...

Tell me how being able to massacre people in GTA is ludonarrative dissonance.

I did, now go away

If you massacred 7 billion people in a single run there would be no one to give you missions.

>How many men have you killed, just today?

When games do shit like this it makes me jump

That's rather ludonarratively dissonant of you, user.

So do you want games to have less combat and killing, so it makes sense storywise? Or do you want every game to deal with the ramifications of the protagonist killing 1,000s of sentient beings?

Because niether sound very appealing. Why can't we just accept that it's not real life, it's a video game and stuff works differently. Immersion is allowing yourself to become immersed in unrealistic worlds, going the other way (making fake worlds so close to real life immersion isn't nesisary) misses the point of entertainment. Pure immersion of a realistic world is possible, it's called not playing a game. Unrealism IS the goal of entertainment, the Challange is crafting it well enough that people can become immersed and invested.

But some people just critique/nitpick everything and TRY to find holes, so of course they arnt immersed if they get pissed off at a Mouse hitting the same bone twice for two different notes, they never wanted to be immersed and we're looking for ways to feel intellectually superior.

good thing you can't do that in GTA, can you?

Ludonarrative dissonance is a retarded concept but holy shit you're fucking moron.

ludonarrative dissonance is an argument against gameplay

they are asking the developer to tone down the action because there's too much content.

If you had enough time and enough monkeys and typewriters, yes.

Maybe, but in a good way

It's not an argument against gameplay. You're twisting words.

It's an argument to connect the two better.

which means devs should step their game up.

Who said there's 7 billion people in the game's world?

>So do you want games to have less combat and killing, so it makes sense storywise?

No you faggot. Doom has no narrative dissonance yet it's a game entirely about killing. Being against ludonarrative dissonance has nothing to do with wanting to fuck up gameplay, only tards who don't understand the concept would think so.

No, actually, the story should service the gameplay.

Which is why there should be a reason for thousands of killings.

which is fine if they're aliens. Or thugs. Or whatever.

But the story should be in service of that. And not make a disconnect between it and the gameplay.

>shit nigga, we have 15 minutes to reach our next objective on the other side of Shibuya, better book it
>alright, lemme do random battles for an hour or two first, I have a good feeling about this pin set and I gotta max out the affinity with a nearby shop I have access to today
TWEWY is a fucking masterpiece and ludonarrative dissonance is one of the only legitimate criticisms I've seen raised against it besides cashuls complaining about the battle system being hard to grasp

Here's my two cents.

The term has some meaning, for instance it's silly to pretend that your character is a hero when he's killed roughly the population of a small country while trying to get to the final boss. However, I don't think this matters at all, really. Unless it's some kind of "artsy" game I don't expect to ever play a shooter where you only fight a handful of fleshed out characters and no one else.

On the other hand, I can see how this term is going to be used as a weapon now. "Oh this game has a story and violence, there should be less violence so I can appreciated the story lol." In my mind, gameplay should always trump story, so if there has to be a few incoherent story---gameplay connections to make the game good, well I would prefer that.

I'll take a fun game over a consistent game any day of the week.

nah you're just a faggot, read ender's game about the nature of gameplay.

player needs to find different avenues of approach, it's fun.

it is used to diminish the gameplay in western titles even further.

it is often used to censor japanese games because numales pretend to be bothered by bikini armor. that's the kind of fags we're dealing with in this thread, brother.

Why are you acting like it's impossible to have good gameplay and a story that makes sense? They're not mutually exclusive. You can want both, no problem.

this

u the kind of fag that's bothered because you can click on point B on the map to get there rather than having character walk for half an hour lol

>sperg completely blows the meaning of ludonarrative dissonance out of proportion because he thinks it means people want to take away GTA's sandbox: the thread

nah

Aren't we all agreeing that ludonarrative dissonance is, in fact, a concept that exists and usually a shitstain in a game?

It's just that it didn't need a name, much less such a specific and pretentious-sounding one

> And in Uncharted, Nathan Drake is this likeable rogue. Whilst, in fact, he's just a ruthless murderer in gameplay.

Whoever started this meme deserves an award. I don't think any stupid critism of a game has reached mainstream levels as this, everyone hears it and suddenly thinks "oh boy, that changed my life, I have to comment on this when I talk about Uncharted, it'll make me seem smarter than all those other plebs (who in actuality already did the same thing an hour earlier).

It's stupid for many reasons

He's not a "murderer", since in every game it's self defense.

Also, Yeah it's unrealistic that one regular dude kills 100s of guys like its his day job. But it's also unrealistic to have two dozen guys armed with military hardware guarding a non important section of a monestary on an island you were anticipating no adversaries.
Or the fact that said island and said monestary exist with no one finding it (except Nazi's) for 100s of years despite being a large island with obvious signs of civilisation (and Nazi records of where they were going).
Or the fact that LITTERAL CURSED STATUE is hidden on this island.
It goes both ways, the unrealism of Drakes actions is equal to the unrealism of the situations and works he inhabits.

I'm glad Naughty Dog seemed to be the only people who didn't fall for this meme, and Niel Druckmann talked about it in an interview, Uncharted exists in a universe where this kind of stuff is "normal" and they arnt aiming to tell a story about the unknown lives of 3rd World Mercs who you should feel bad for killing, or the affects on the humsn pyske of gunning down 3000 people. It's about finding treasure.

I agree with you.

It is, honestly, a useful term that seems to be co-opted by people who take issue with violence.

ludo-, prefix derived from ludus meaning game

That's the only thing in the phrase that makes people take a step back. No one finds "narrative dissonance" particularly confusing or pretentious except people excessively concerned with sounding uninvolved or unpretentious.

There's nothing controversial about identifying the phenomenon it's describing; literally everyone who's played a game has made a remark about how the gameplay encouraged by a game's mechanics or rules is at odds with the story it thinks it's telling.

Even plebs make these observations: "I'm the chosen one in each Elder Scrolls game on an quest of great urgency, lemme go collect all the cheese wheels in the provinces." etc. etc.

It's a useful term for people involved in direct speech about the topic, get over it.

What the fuck. It's not about taking away player avenues. It's about writing a story that services that.

that's all. Instead of writing story around gameplay. they should go hand in hand. That's fucking it.

You're just some crying neckbear faggot that doesn't want any change because MUH VIDYAGAEMS

Jesus fucking christ, grow up. Fun and gameplay come first. Ludonarrative dissonance is a thing because videogame writing isn't there yet, but it should be.

How the fuck can you keep failing to grasp such a basic concept. Has your hatred for Kotaku deprived you of common sense? Every post you've made in the thread misses the point.

>It's an argument to connect the two better.

By limiting the actions the player can do as to not conflict with the story and to stop characters from acting out of character.

"Nathan Drake wouldn't kill this many people and still be a likeable rogue, let's lower the number of enemy encounters and enemies."

"If Geralt is so worried about finding Ciri he wouldn't be taking random contracts all over the world, let's remove them entirely and make the game a linear ordeal."

"Snake wouldn't spend 5 hours talking about old movies on the codec, let's remove that."

The more things you allow the player to do the bigger is the widow to ludonarrative dissonance, that's why it's a bullshit concept that developers should pay no mind to.

Oh look, video game critics are trying to sound smart. How cute.

Not at all, if I can imagine the characters taking that trip then it's just a handy timesaver
With TWEWY though, the cutscenes impose a sense of urgency to most story events, the characters are often trying their best to hurry along, but that doesn't mean jack squat for the player when you're in control of things, you can stall to your heart's content and do things you couldn't possibly justify to the narrative. It's already common for RPGs but TWEWY takes it to the extreme. Let me repeat; it doesn't really bother me all that much, but it *is* a criticism you can make against the game.

It's not about limiting.

>By limiting the actions the player can do as to not conflict with the story

Or writing a story to allow for more actions to be taken by the player without causing jarring moments when the cutscenes play.

Isn't it funny that game analysis would bring out these observations and terms and the industry will just completely ignore it instead of addressing it.

I can't think of that happening in film. All I hear about is how one film subverts the "male gaze", whatever the fuck that means.

Meanwhile, Naughty Dog does nothing about its legitimate ludonarrative dissonance problem.

Nathan Drake sounds like a fucking nut cracking one liners after causing one-man genocide across the globe. Takes all the serious stuff away from the story.

I think it's an argument to make the story fit the gameplay rather than the gameplay changed to fit the story. I agree that people who want gameplay diminished for the sake of fitting a story are cucks though.

It's a pretentious sounding word but it's a real issue in a lot of games.

Like the new Tomb Raider.

Narrative dissonance doesn't happen in film? Get outta here.

gameplay needs to always take precedence over the story not succumb to it

fuck off

no it isn't, it's sophism

This, I can imagine some smug whiny faggot complaining about snake making calls during bossfights and painting this as game's weakness

Which is why stories should be written to SERVICE gameplay, so there's no ludonarrative dissonance.

It's not about limiting player action. It's about writing stories in different ways.