Horror Game General

Horror Game General

numale edition

reminder that Frictional, the most prominent western horror developer sees gameplay as an obstacle to the 'experience'.

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Giving someone control automatically lessens fear. The only choices you should be given in the perfect horror game (PT) are looking around and moving forward/backward.

>reminder that Frictional, the most prominent western horror developer sees gameplay as an obstacle to the 'experience'.

The argument Gripp makes is that the brain doesn't have an infinite capacity to think about things, so some things will be focused on and prioritized over others. From that, the conclusion is that if you want a game world to be immersive, you can't have super dense game mechanics. The mechanics will be brought to the mental forefront, and the things that make a game world immersive will fall by the wayside.

Games with dense, difficult, intricate mechanics can exist in the same world as immersive games that focus on the story and experience, one's existence doesn't exclude the other.

Imagine how much scarier it would be if you couldn't look around or move. It really enhances the feeling of helplessness.

anybody excited for the friday the 13th game? I know multiplayer only sucks but I guess it could be fun

No, Jubert literally said that gameplay needs to be removed if it starts hindering progress. As for your last sentence, it goes against everything Frictional stands for.

>Giving someone the chance to escape, a modicum of agency VS monster rather than to remain passively ensconced on the couch somehow lessens fear

Can't argue with that logic.

Stop being a stupid person. The player has to have limited control to explore the environment and encounter the frightening. If the monsters/whatever come to you, it's a movie. If you have to make the decision to walk forward and investigate dark corners, that generates real fear, because you are performing an action that puts 'you' (the meta person between your physical self and the game character) in danger.

>Streamer game genre

Another type of horror altogether.

Control of the situation you subhuman. Running away isn't control, but an automatic weapon is. A crowbar is.

>the conclusion is that if you want a game world to be immersive, you can't have super dense game mechanics.

And you actually believe this to be true?

>Running away isn't control

It is, and the proper term to use is interaction.

Super dense game mechanics in 2016 are almost always associated with menus. Clicking through a menu isn't scary, and doing so surrounded by monsters is just frustrating.

>No, Jubert literally said that gameplay needs to be removed if it starts hindering progress. As for your last sentence, it goes against everything Frictional stands for.

I'd be willing to bet he was speaking in terms of making an immersive experience, not making an all-inclusive statement for every game ever made.

The people at Frictional aim to make immersive games, other game developers don't. I don't get what your point is. That they should start making mechanically intricate games because you say so?

was asking as more of a friday the 13th fan

Did they ever release the statement of why it was cancelled?

Anyone played the Lakeview Cabin Collection?
I've only played the first two episodes, but its a pretty interesting mix of horror and Home Alone strategy setup.
Hard as fuck too.

The graphics can be a little triggering though.

>Super dense game mechanics in 2016 are almost always associated with menus.

Where are you getting all these awesome soundbites from? I want to redefine my knowledge of core video game tenets.

I wouldn't be willing to bet, he's a post-structuralist faux intellectual finding his niche in video games and calling himself a narrative designer.

When you avoid gameplay, you do not make the experience more (or less) immersive. You can see through Frictional's bluff straight away and their jump scare simulators don't work on any level. They should be kissing the feet of facecam people for making them zounds of cash.

It's going to be a generic 'survival' game, flavor of the month among kappa crowd. As a fan most you can hope for is a 3D Jason model running around.

Play Deadly Premonition if you haven't.

To an extent, yes. I'm pretty sure you'd have a hard time making a game world immersive in, say, a complex RTS.

I'm not saying every single game should be a walking simulator. The idea is that if immersion is your aim, complexity in mechanics is a cost. There are myriad scenarios where the addition to the experience is more than worth the cost (I can list examples if you really need me to), but it's still a cost.

I can't user, I can't stand anymore western pixelshit.

Do you realize how broad of an term 'immersion' is? It was properly ridiculed when Bethesda started throwing it around to create buzz around Fallout reboot or was it Elder Scrolls, nevermind.

I can look at games that I consider 'immersive' and list you the exact things that make them click, but I cannot make offhand remarks about how deep mechanics represent a hindrance in the broadest meaning of a term.

the kills look like they might be cool thats always been the attraction to the franchise
youtube.com/watch?v=2SzdJx5xjbE

You should try it though, its a pretty damn good representation of horror movies and just how fucking hard it is to live through em.

>When you avoid gameplay, you do not make the experience more (or less) immersive.

What are you basing this argument on? You're stating this like a fact but I don't see any ideas backing it up.

>You can see through Frictional's bluff straight away and their jump scare simulators don't work on any level

What levels are you judging them on? I mean, their games are both profitable and critically acclaimed, what exactly are you looking for?

Do you have an actual disagreement, or can you give me another witticism? I collect Sup Forums posts.

If you're the menu guy, it was my way of saying that you're fucking retarded.

This house looks really comfy.

#goals

youtube.com/watch?v=__i_LoRKhJ0

That wasn't witty. Swearing just makes you look unimaginative.

I understand, don't worry man.
It definitely looks nicer in motion though.

This.

The first episode is pretty straight forward cabin-at-the-lake scenario where you have a day to just fuck around and explore before shit starts going down.

2nd episode throws you right into broken-down-camper-in-the-backwoods where the nearby houses are infested with a psycho family who get high off of human entrails.

Even with those graphics, it has some seriously tense as fuck design elements.

>What are you basing the argument that the games need to be judged as individual cases rather than on dubious definitions on

Really?


>What levels are you judging them on? I mean, their games are both profitable and critically acclaimed, what exactly are you looking for?

Bluff being that the player soon sees that there is no threat involved, dissipating the 'terror' altogether.

>critically acclaimed

Please don't bring industry blogs into this.

At least I didn't claim that 'dense' mechanics are associated with menus. You must think Paradox is the best gameplay designer out there.

>Frictional, the most prominent western horror developer sees gameplay as an obstacle to the 'experience'.
There's nothing wrong with that. You play a horror game for the scares, not for the gameplay. If I wanted gameplay, I'd play Quake or Devil May Cry or Sonic the Hedgehog.
Puzzles are alright in horror games, but even then, they're not the main focus.

What is there to be scared of if the game is impotent? Would STALKER be scary if Bloodsucker got removed after you fail several times at killing it? Or if you turned away from it? We're talking about the concept of threat and Frictional's bluff here, not about gameplay mechanics.

The idea is that the brain will prioritize. Since the mechanics are the more immediately demanding problem, they will be thought about before how involving and absorbing the game world is.

The conclusion to this idea is, at least in my opinion, definitely NOT to just make every game a simple walkabout that takes zero effort. The idea is to just be very discerning about adding complexity if your aim is to build a game world that draws the player in and melts the fourth wall. Again, I can think of plenty of cases off the top of my head where adding complex mechanics actually help build the game world. To bring it back to the thread topic, ammo rationing is a very good example. It's a game mechanic that, when executed correctly, can add a huge layer of paranoia to every encounter, thereby enhancing the feeling of dread that a horror game would try to imbue.

Why is this guys house so filthy and grimy?

Dense mechanics are menus, hard numbers and long term strategy associated. Remembering button combinations isn't 'dense.' That's simple mechanics applied to faster and faster opponents.
>You must think Paradox is the best gameplay designer out there
Are you for real? Your credibility just exploded with that random assumption.

Why are you bringing some sort of neurological mumbo jumbo (because that's what it is) into this argument? This isn't some high level psychology, especially when regarding Frictional's idea of horror (something screams in the dark). About ammo rationing problem - I can't think of a game that made use of this properly, it sounds great on paper but let's take a game like Silent Hill for example - after first few hours, you just run away from everything and save shells for the bosses. Resident Evil? Stepback, knife, save ammo for the bosses. Etc.

>random assumption

You mentioned menus, not me.

All games are impotent, my dude. There is no way a video game can actually hurt you. Any feeling of terror that a video game can impart is purely a deception.

Their argument is that removing that enemy actually enhances the deception. Whether or not you agree with that is up to you but at least try to understand where they're coming from.

Ammo rationing is a 'turn the game off' mechanic. If I feel like I'm going to run dry and get made a fuccboi by ten enemies at once, completely unable to progress, I won't care anymore. There's no point in starting an 8+ hour horror game that doesn't guarantee success.

For fucks sake, 'my dude', I never implied that the game becomes so immersive that I feel like it can hurt me, not even when I was leaning sideways from monitor as the Doom 2 Cyberdemon shot at me.

My CHARACTER in Silent Hill faces a real threat that has to be run past / killed / wounded in order to get to the next part of the game, make progress. My character in Amnesia needs only fail for a bit and the game will accomodate. There is no deception once you figure this out.

yeah and i bet you think dead space is scarier than penumbra

>Why are you bringing some sort of neurological mumbo jumbo (because that's what it is) into this argument?

100% of anything that a video game can do is purely neurological. If you take out the human brain, a video game is just a bunch of light and sound.

Second, it's not mumbo-jumbo. I don't think it's even bold to say that the brain doesn't have infinite capacity to process information. That's actually just pretty plain and obvious.

>There's no point in starting an 8+ hour horror game that doesn't guarantee success.

Of course it is, Penumbra is barely functional on any level and if you have read more than one book in your life you'll start laughing as soon as the first exposition page kicks in.

I have no idea what you're about at this point, you mention extremely complex topics, even dealing with biochemistry and neuroscience in the most offhand way.

enemy zero for the sega saturn had combat and it was definitely scarier to me than amnesia

Why would I knowingly struggle to reach the end of something that could kick me in the balls and tell me to fuck off at any time? At least something like Devil May Cry gives you a chance of winning at all times if you 'git gud' enough. A game with an unwinnable state is a just a practical joke.

>that entire post

jesus fucking christ
this is why survival horror is dead, they cater to people like this

>A game with an unwinnable state is a just a practical joke.

This is a pretty well-agreed-upon pillar of game design. That's why I put the "executed correctly" caveat when I first mentioned ammo rationing. It's great when done well, and either completely fucked (not enough ammo) or pointless complexity (too much ammo).

Honestly, I thought SOMA was pretty great.

Whether you want to call it a game or an experience, whatever. I enjoyed it.

Granted I think this philosophy only works in the horror or adventure genre. But it is okay at times when appropriate. Myst's focus was on the "experience", not the gameplay. It's still one of the most comfy games I've gotten to play.

It's nothing new to the industry. I just don't want it to start replacing the industry.

You can play one and done pioneer, I want to experience the content. It's not 1980 anymore, video games have a lot to offer beyond failstate mechanics.

I shat my pants when playing this for the first time. Never thought a pixelshit could be horrifying.

>I want to experience the content

content shouldn't be just handed to the player, especially in a horror game
if you want to experience the content then git gud, learn to plan ahead, conserve resources, and learn when to fight and when to flee

Why did Allison Road get cancelled?

But it's not handed to you. You're choosing to forge ahead, despite how scary it is. If fear isn't an issue, it's not a good horror game or you have mental problems and can't feel fear.

if there is nothing at stake (loss of progress, inability to finish the game due to resource mismanagement etc.) there is nothing left to fear

Myst is quite eerie, but if Frictional designed it, it would outright tell you how to solve a puzzle after 15 mins of bashing your head against the fictional wall.

Why does Outlast get praised so much
>Within five minutes of playing there is already at least three jumpscares

Startling someone =/= Scaring someone

Let's just walk towards this thing.

It successfully emulates bottom of the barrel horror movies. Horror crowd in general is the most retarded people you can think of gathered around something, that's why Stephen King is a billionaire and Ligotti is unknown.

Why did Allison Road get cancelled?

Anyone hear about Year of the Ladybug? It sounds like an interesting project, but I feel like it'll fall through altogether.

except you are actually punished in P.T. for not doing well
you don't get to see the real "ending"

They sold their 'game' to Team17 and it got cancelled shortly after. Either Team17 are idiots or they wanted the assets.

I'd love to see some gameplay.

They switched from Kickstarter to a publisher, so I'm assuming that it's a creative difference or something.

We really won't know until either party says.

I wouldn't count P.T. as having a conventional ending. It's random guesswork to receive a trailer.

It's just two idea guys drawing concept art. At this pace it'll never be made.

Anyone else like the Strange Men games?

The voice acting in Boogie Man was fucking awful though holy SHIT. The main character had the voice of a 13-year-old boy trying to sound tough.

I only played halfway through the Boogieman: Is it any good? Not feeling the weird sequel vibe of the thing so far, should have had an all new cast.

No, Gripp said that players can't focus on mechanics and get emotionally invested at the same time. It's why they give Tetris to people with PTSD and games don't have plot twists in the middle of firefights.

SOMA is a "walking simulator" because the gameplay needed to be simplistic to adhere to his "Four Layers of Narrative Design", which you can google and is basically the reason the game took so damn long.

It'll be cancelled by next year, but it's fun to speculate about.

>Ligotti
He was nominated in many awards. If we're talking about obscure horror writer then look no further than Arthur Machen of Robert Chambers. People nowadays might call them Lovecraftian even though it's Lovecraft who emulates them.

>i donated to this
>so far it's looking bad
at least i donated to Yooka Laylee too

There's a sliver a hope still

Ehh, it's alright. I'd say it's probably the weakest of the series so far though. The final boss is a joke. Granted so were the final bosses in Crooked Man and Sandman but this one is even more of a joke.

Also, genuine spoilers here, it's not the actual Boogie Man, it's the tour director guy in disguise, killing people for a movie or something

Looking forward to Hanged Man though

So basically it's the first half of Until Dawn? Fuck that, Crooked Man is easily the best of the three.

>games don't have plot twists in the middle of firefights.

They do

And I did read that Frictional pseudo theory about video game design, that's why I ridicule them so much.

Machen and Chambers were well known during their time. Not even when Ligotti was aped in the making of True Detective did general public become aware of his work.

The same Frictional that made Amnesia? Sheeeit, now it's easy to see why Machine for Pigs was so shit (Apart from being made by thechineseroom)

But Amnesia was shit, its gameplay was a bluff, its 'puzzles' were childish and once you skulked in the corner a few times it got boring.

Also the breadcrumb exposition of diary pages and whatnot was poor as you would expect from that narrative model.

I guess Amnesia was revolutionary for it's time.
Unfortunately, Amnesia gave life to copycat games and let's players.

Have you played the Penumbra games? Same company.

>players can't focus on mechanics and get emotionally invested at the same time.

Oh so he's retarded?

I think your second sentence accounts for it being 'revolutionary'. Along with Minecraft and Terraria and whatnot.

You know what's really scary?

When yo think you see something out of your peripheral vison.

Why is the modern horror game a linear experience with jump scares only?

Because western devs (for the most part) have no idea how to create atmosphere that is then punctuated with jump scares. STALKER was foreboding enough to create constant tension and then you had Bloodsucker and Controller encounters to punctuate it. Pathologic was ominously oppressive throughout. Silent Hill even made puzzles unnerving.

But this is not the case only with video games, American horror is dead as a dodo as well. Last good one was Resolution and even that was a found footage shitter for the most part.

Dont know if that count? Mini game from Game & Wario.

Interesting

It's asymetric multiplayer.

I agree with this. I was thinking of this recently and realized that the two most immersive games I've played (SotC and SH2) minimize player deaths a great deal. I assume this was deliberate, because if you're dying over and over to a boss then it just becomes an obstacle to overcome rather than something disturbing or beautiful. Especially in a horror game, since horror is lessened through repetition.

>multiplayer

will never work properly as a horror game, true dread needs a firm direction.

FNAF?

SotC even had speedrun mode, it emphasized player skill. Silent Hill had tons of new game plus quirks and rewarded good gameplay. In fact in both games you were denied some crucial 'fun' items if you played like a slouch.

Horror is lessened if you know repetition removes the obstacle.

I fucking hate frictional, I don't know where all the praising comes from. Konami on the other hand used to make fucking god tier horror games.

One game is Jason, the 4 others are teenagers trying to escape alive. It's literally what the movies are. There is no plot. Just Teenagers trying to escape a serial killer.

You never played Penumbra or the first Amnesia?

So Sup Forums, whats the scariest game youve played in the last 5-10 years? I think mine is PT, i have a hallway that looks kinda like that one and its not fun

Point is that you cannot set up setpieces in multiplayer as you would in a single player game. Good horror requires good encounter direction.

I think Konami will go back to SH in a year or two, as it will to MGS.

STALKER, no contest. There's something in single player FPS games for me considering Quake 1 and 2 made me shiver back in the day.

Sure, but that's not what they are going for. It's Hide and Seek, where if you are found, you are killed. Brutally. It's terror and not "BOO" horror.

>Yooka Laylee
>true dread
you obviously haven't seen the friday the 13th movies they're really exploitation films with murder sex and drugs and overall not supposed to be taken that seriously

yes and they were awful. Almost finished all of them, even soma, and at the end I always ended up hating myself for all that lost time.

Best horror games to play on PS4?

I have Alien Isolation.

Not interested in the Resident Evil HD games.