Are there any valid points as to why MOBAs would be inherently bad games?

Are there any valid points as to why MOBAs would be inherently bad games?

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>MOBA

Only one of those games is a moba

It encourages exhaustively repetitive gameplay and instills an unwarranted amount of pride and self-importance in its playerbase.

Two reasons right there off the top of my head, ASSFAGGOTS will always be cancer.

Not having friends is generally the only "valid point" anyone can come up with
Other than that it's just contrarian maymay posters

I'm sure there are plenty of valid points but don't expect any of them from here.

They're not inherently bad. They're just RTS games with 80% of the gameplay removed and replaced with memorizing characters and relying on teammates to not fuck up. They're perfect for people who can't handle the stress of 1v1 multiplayer games and want to have someone to blame when they lose.

Games with "matchmaking" are a mistake and I hope that this meme goes away. Give me games instantly, I hate having to wait 2+ minutes in all of these games for a match to start.

I don't think mobas are that great, but I can respect them for what they are and I had a good 800 hours of fun in League.

Don't play it anymire though.

The problem with them is that the community and developers seem to base the game around solo play pick up groups instead of pushing the teamwork aspects and organized play.

League needs to be mercy killed at this point though making all the characters similar completely misses the point.

not really, the emphasis on teamwork and the huge pool of heroes makes for a deep and rewarding game

it also creates toxic communities and I would argue that's the worst part of them

the games are way too fucking long and there's a penalty for quitting so you have to make sure you wont be interrupted for the next hour

>Cancer community
>Most of them are free, so enjoy your retarderd russians, brazilians and other third worlders
>characters have only 5, sometimes 6 skills.
>some of them have farming system, which means doing same boring shit for 3/4 of the match
>cancer community

basically, community in those kind of games is pure shit

>It encourages exhaustively repetitive gameplay
how so? I mean you do repetative tasks in literally every multiplayer game. If there is a genre which has variety between matches than those are the mobas.
bet you would defend overwatch for everything that game is

>If there is a genre which has variety between matches than those are the mobas

The games that literally have one map and one strategy to win on that map that plays out the same every game?

To start most heroes have a set pool of items that doesn't tend to vary much and if it does it's a set response to other hero picks, then you have everything said, talent/ability picks each level tend to be exactly the same, lane choices usually a cemented until the meta changes, meta never changes. This list goes on and on bud, ASSFAGGOTS are a waste of time and energy and enjoying their flow makes you autistic for pattern recognition.

>bet you would defend overwatch for everything that game is
You'd be wrong you fucking mongloid.

>it encourages exhaustively repetitive gameplay

Fuck, allmost like real sports

>le "every game where you control a single character is a dumbed down RTS" maymay
ebin

its pretty fucking clear that the only mobe you've played is league or hots, but league still have over like 120 characters with 1-2 build variety, and thats pretty fucking much combination in 5v5 team comps for the matches. Matches will still differ a lot more than if you play cs, overwatch or whatever other mp game of your choice.

and then there is also dota, where except most heroes having 1 core items all the rest are optional based on what kind of build you wanna do, what enemies you are fighting againts, and how well you are doing in the match so far. Thats over 100 items, most of them giving you new abilities, all of them which you have to use pretty tactically.

Except real sports are a test of physical prowess and coordination dependent on rigorous training and dedication that lasts the entirety of people's lives.

e"sports" aren't real sports, don't confuse yourself.

The only moba I've ever played was dota2 when it was in beta and I dropped it after realizing that it was the most tedious thing I have ever played. My friends fell for the meme though, one is getting cucked in the literal sense of the word, the other is unemployed, and the third is an insufferable faggot that broke down in tears because someone made fun of league at a party. Through these ambassadors of your genre I have an uncomfortable knowledge of how the game is played. You clearly don't know shit.

That's almost not a problem though.
It encourages competitive and counter play, not a unique chaotic shit show of constantly changing abilities which lends itself on the current change more so than the players skill.

Maybe I misread but it sounds like your issue is it's sameness. If that's the case, I don't follow. It sounds like you have an issue with balance and multi-player rather than mobas themselves.

The real issue mobas have is appealing to ONLY the top 1% of players. I think some of the solutions are already being implemented. League, for example, is implementing more "fun types" every other week.

The less serious we can take some of these titles, the more it would feel like games like Overwatch or Rocket League or CS:Source.

Actually MOBA's/ASSFAGGOTS have extremely high replay value so I don't know how you get repetitive gameplay; no two games are ever alike.

Only really applies to League desu, Dota doesn't have a cemented meta even at low and high levels. The most 'cemented' build you could pick would probably be Anti-Mage Battlefury and that's just a single item since it's the core of the build.

>Actually MOBA's/ASSFAGGOTS have extremely high replay value so I don't know how you get repetitive gameplay; no two games are ever alike.
This, I've been playing these games for years and they're the least repetitive multiplayer games I've ever played.
You get a lot less mileage out of LoL, but it still goes a lot further than most MP games

Name a flaw that Dota has instead of conflating it with League.

>esports aren't sports

Then what's chess, GO, golf, squash, and so many others? Hell most professional games rely on mental tactics more than physical.
Sure some are gifted with "the perfect linebacker physique" but the one making unique plays and out smarting those with equal or similar physical statue, win games.

I'm an avid sport spectator. Played handegg, baseball, and soccer on jv and varsity level. I still think you're wrong.
Sports arent limited to physical strength. Wit is a huge part of that.

LoL fag here, how do I even get my items without looking like I'm afk in lane?

Press G to select courier, shop with it,and then press E to bring items to you. Or maybe F can't remember just learn the courier hotkeys.

Same way you do it in league, just learn what items build from what.

>That's almost not a problem though.
So you admit that it's a problem?

No part of a moba encourages "competitive and counter play," if a particular hero is chosen there's usually a set hero or item build that counters it, there's no room for imagination and in some instances going against the grain will actually land you a ban (league is notorious for this, but dota operates in a similar fashion). You did miss my point with set ability builds in that I'm not advocating for absolute entropy when it comes to their selection and use, but rather more flexibility. League was also a terrible example to have used, didn't they just fuck up their own mm system? I do agree that the entire genre needs to be taken less seriously though.

>no two games are ever alike
That is an absolute lie and you know it. There are heroes that are always going to be picked because they're meta, it was gyrocopter at one point and doom at another. Every game.

>Dota doesn't have a cemented meta
I just mentioned this to one of the friends I mentioned in another post and he's sperging out on me right now, so thanks for that. He's got close to a 6k mmr whatever that means so I'll trust his opinion,

That's a nice resume you've got there, kudos for the soccer in particular. Of the examples you listed do you think it fair to compare dota or league to say chess? Most of the time people pick and do things because the pros are doing it and they saw it at the last international or whatever. I don't consider that to be the same amount of wit at all.

You can shift-click shop items to set them into your quick-buy tab. You can instantly purchase them with a press of a button if you hotkey it.

But it wasn't Gyrocopter or Doom every game? Even then no two games are ever alike, that doesn't mean there are no top-tier picks.

That or have fast hands

reminder

>nice resume
Sorry wasn't trying to gloat. Just adding ethos to my post.

But in yea I would compare the two. In playing chess, I watch people try to mimic Bobby Fischer games even when it's a terrible idea. Id have to ask others but I would imagine go is the same way.

You still have micro situations in mobas thay require planning in just a few seconds.
Example in league:
I'm a top laner and I have won my lane (pushed opponents out of lane) and I am at half hp. I see my other lanes are struggling. Assuming my mechanics are going to be perfect, do I roam?

Well what items do they have? How much damage do I do? Do they have an escape? Could I get countered? What's the risk and cost? What do I earn?

These questions are pretty basic but this is just one action. In solo que with no real communication, it's up to you to capitalize most of the time. It doesn't matter how well you move your champ, hit skill shots, or which champ you pick with whatever item, if you don't account for something, you will die and lose.
These situations happen pretty often during a game. It's not a fetishistic display of technical game play, but these are tough choices that I fail to see the difference compared to chess or GO or football or any sport.

>Most of the time people pick and do things because the pros are doing it and they saw it at the last international or whatever.
You realize chess is exactly the same, it's just several orders of magnitude older? There's not a single strategy in chess that doesn't have a name; it's a game that's been mathematically perfected.

Fun fact.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Nepomniachtchi

This guy is a Chess Grandmaster and he's a Dota player, in fact his fucking Wikipedia image is him in a Dota shirt.

Also he's been playing since Dota 1, his favorite hero is Spirit Breaker.

>brazilians

I'm a huemonkey and don't like mobas. But the all the rage video are awesome

youtube.com/watch?v=JwFcwm6O0TM

...

>Moba's are boring because its the same map with the same mode every game

I only know about Dota but the depth and fun of the game doesn't come from the map or the mode, it comes from the basically endless amount of variation in each match, as well as the large array of factors that every player has to keep up with during a game, a set of factors that also changes every game.

At the base level you're choosing a hero based on a few factors, what your team has, what the enemy team has, your relative skill level on each hero, what lane you're playing in, what you expect to face opposite you in lane, what items you expect your team mates and enemies will buy, how you expect your team mates and enemies to move around the map.

After you've got a hero and you're actually in the middle of the game you've got to be making decisions on a moment by moment basis, what you do depends on the ever changing situation of your team mates and enemies, farm gold, push towers, try to find pick offs, place wards/deward, 5man, take roshan, smoke up, try to force a team fight, this is just the simple stuff, stuff like my team is fighting mid and its 25min in as an AM pushing a t2, deciding whether to continue pushing or tping in to help the team is a type of situation people experience constantly but the variations are too large to just list them.

And then theres gold, what you spend it on depends on your current items, the time in the game, the items on your allies and enemies, the heroes your team mates and enemies are using, the win condition of the game, what objectives you plan to take, every hero is unique, every hero has 6 item slots and 4 team mates all with 6 item slots and 5 enemies also with 6 item slots, there are just over 100 heroes and items, the variation is basically infinite.

This is super surface level shit to be honest but whatever, im about to hit the character limit anyway.