MMO THREAD

Let's have a general MMO discussion.

What ruined MMOs?
How do we fix them?
What would your ideal MMO be like?
What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
etc etc

>What ruined MMOs?
Normies
>How do we fix them?
We can't. The only thing is to get some new technology where nerds and geeks could thrive when normies still think it's too weird for them
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Emphasis on huge world, exploration, difficult but rewarding, easy to learn but hard to master, great soundtrack, hard and epic fantasy
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
None, played WoW and after WotLK changed to Rift.

>What ruined MMOs?

Status quo

>How do we fix them?

'We' don't.

>What would your ideal MMO be like?

Runefactory MMO with player-made cities.

>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?

None/none.

Rift was a great WoW clone. Proof that WoW clones can be good and that the genre still has hope. fuck trion for jewing it to death

WoW is fine. It's always been fine.

there is no way to fix MMOs too many people have become too Impatient for devs to stop catering to the casuals

Yeah, the leveling was great. Too bad the endgame sucked

I was just gonna make a thread like this. It seems there's quite a few of us that still have a lot of interest in the genre.

>What ruined MMOs?

"Streamlining" the player experience and essentially removing the social aspect. WoW is the biggest culprit.

>How do we fix them?

Experiment and innovate. Give players as much freedom as possible. Encourage people to actually communicate with one another.

>What would your ideal MMO be like?

I'm not sure but I'd like to see something like a 3D Ultima Online combined with the world building of Minecraft.

>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?

None, sadly.

>What ruined MMOs?
Money. WoW really showed profit potential, so every other MMO attempted to copy it and make similar money, which was super stupid because its very difficult to steal someones market like that, especially in video games. Historical examples in other genres are abundant, and nobody paid heed, so the genre died out.
>How do we fix them?
Time.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Not really sure. I loved GW1 instanced PVP and the build variety with the low skill choice limit. I also loved the depth of character creation in Shadowbane and the all-out PVP. I also loved the Monty Python alike world of Runescape, great questing and humour. WoW was great for its world and its gameplay, though it did have flaws. Then there's FFXI for its difficulty and world, which felt immense and huge, amazing, though it was quite a struggle to stay current in it without poopsocking.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
I was playing on Kronos but the /vg/ drama just tired me out. I wish people weren't such children and could get along.

>WoW is fine

>What ruined MMOs?
WOW
>How do we fix them?
Make some original games
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Mabinogi with more players
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Mabinogi all of the day every day since open beta.

Quickly, post the worst MMO you've ever played but still had fun in

>How do we fix them?
More sexy races

I put in thousands of hours on Phantasy Star Universe

If the servers didn't go down I'd still be playing it today.

>What ruined MMOs?
Guild Wars 2
>How do we fix them?
Kill everyone at arenanet
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Final Fantasy XIV ARR without monthly fee
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Stopped playing MMO's because they are all shit

I played that shitloads, but only on the demo. Never got bored despite a weekly character wipe.

>there will never be another game like Guild Wars

wotlk wow ruined it.

>Ideal MMO is a shitty MMO only with MORE gil spam and BRs

What server? I just got back into mabi myself

>What ruined MMOs?
Changing "multiplayer" to "singleplayer with other people"
>How do we fix them?
Revert this shit, but don't force it like GW2 did
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
An alive DAoC
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
N/A

>implying NEETs and autists didnt ruin Black Desert

What ruins MMOs are developers catering to normies who bitch and complain about not getting what others put effort into getting (like how pretty much everything in life gets ruined)

Tarlach primarily. I'll probably be starting a new /vg/ guild on Alexina sometime today though, been trying to revive the general.

>What ruined MMOs?
Cata WoW or GW2
>How do we fix them?
You can't.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Non-P2W SMT Imagine or Mabinogi with lots of things to do
>What MMOs are you currently playing?
Runescape

>entitled faggots who don't want to dedicate time to a singular entity and end up hopping mmos like the dick hopping faggots they are
>we regress into the early 2000s and 90s, alienate casual faggots and get back to the way mmos were meant to be
> an EVE style sandbox with a futuristic artstyle, focused on high tech renditions of popular fantasy tropes.
>implying I care about current mmos now that koreans have given the genre super ebola aids

Is anyone playing Wildstar? Played a while before it went f2p, then quit, somehow there was nothing to do in the end besides the raids.
How's the playerbase at the moment? Still active?
I may just download it to level another char to 50, I kind of enjoyed the combat.

>What ruined MMOs?
Normies/casuals

>How do we fix them?
We can't

>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Ultima/Tibia-like skill system with the 3D open-world & focus on communities. Dungeons, if there are any, would be hard as fuck, but the rewards would be awesome, but not too awesome to make it mandatory for every player to do them. Also no dailies so it is impossible to make playing the MMO your second job.

Classes would be decided purely by how you play/level/skill your character (TES style).

>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?

Blade&Soul is currently the only MMO I play every now and then. I simply can't play it too long because of the end-game dungeon pubs being retards only doing dungeons for dailies. + The NA/EU servers are dipshit in quality making "hardcore" grinding/playing BnS almost impossible. PvP was promising but due to server problems and NCWest not adressing the issue PvP scene is pretty dead apart from people doing PvP dailies.

I used to play wildstar, but the pacing of the game's leveling killed any hopes I've had of actually hitting cap

>What ruined MMOs?
WoW did and other companies trying to copy the success of it, instead of trying to be original
>How do we fix them?
Stop trying to be like WoW. Look at EVE Online. Has an extremely loyal fanbase.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Massive open world, various races, Realm Vs Realm, with implications/results of battle matter (kinda like WAR's RvR)
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Currently playing none. I dip back into TOR occasionally. Haven't touched FF14, or Rift in ages. I am cautiously optimistic for Camelot Unchained. It will be interesting to see if Jacobs actually has the goods for an mmo when he isn't shackled by EA, or if DAoC was a one hit wonder.

I kind of enjoyed leveling, I play this close-combat-mage-thing, can't remember how it was called. I really enjoyed the active combat.
I hated the veteran dungeons however, they were nicely difficult, but I couldn't find any not-braindead party members.
I didn't enjoy the theme of the main city however, but the housing and part of the regions were REALLY well done imo.

That is NOT The Matrix Online. The ONLY thing good about that was the end of beta event when Agent Smith "infected" the servers. He would call out a player by name and then find them absorbing the player's character into a Smith. They had Neo, Morphius and Trinity there fighting back.

Thats good, I'm currently playing on Alexina. It was kinda sad to see the general die despite all the faggotry.

Basically, back when Everquest: Shadows of Luclin expansion came out in 2001 at the peak of Everquest's popularity there was a new way raid content was partitioned off. The raiding guilds had to get keys to enter Vex'Thal, which was the end game dungeon and all guild members would need one. This was a major pain in the ass and the raiding guilds whined endlessly about it. Once they got the keys and entered Vex'Thal they experienced a dungeon that raped their face so hard the asspain could be felt serverwide. This caused a lasting animosity between the games foremost raiding guild leaders and the devs. This feud continued into Planes of Power with the PoTime keying and difficulty.

At the same time, Warcraft had been announced and began actively courting EQ's biggest raiding guilds. Most notably, Tigole of Legacy of Steel and Furor of Fires of Heaven. Both were known for their rants about EQ and its direction. The whiners of EQ were being asked about what they wanted to see in raids/quests etc..

Basically, Blizzard asked a bunch of whiney blue server entitled fucks what their wonderland mmo would be and they gave it them.

>What ruined MMOs?
Honestly for me it was Guild Wars 2.

>How do we fix them?
We don't.

>What would your ideal MMO be like?
A Guild Wars 1 that never died,

>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
None. No current MMO interest me.

>What ruined MMOs?

The honest truth? Gamers grew up. Some had families or got jobs or traveled the world while those shut-in NEETs never moved on past their teenage years of spending 40+ hours a week on a game and feeling good about it.

Thus when games started to cater more to people who spend a reasonable 5-10 hours a week playing a game because they have responsibilities, the 'core audience' (read: hardcore gamers) feels slighted.

>The honest truth? Gamers grew up.

>What ruined MMOs?
WoW's success. Every pretty much mimics elements from it to the point where everything is homogenized. Mostly all MMO play and feel the same to the point where I just can't bother with them anymore.
>How do we fix them?
I don't think it's possible at this point. The marketing style of F2P with microtransactions seems to be taking hold everywhere. Its purpose is to blatantly milk money out of consumers. Then when its not that you have the WoW/themepark clone. No one wants to take the chance to try anything different. Trying to do anything really advanced is not possible with the current tech unless it is instanced or not truly a MMO. Then almost everyone seems to be graphics whores at this point so every MMO has to look amazing, this cuts into development time, costs, and ingenuity of the game. I could care less if teh game looked 10 years old as long as it was fun.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
I loved the short leveling system of GW where the endgame was basically PvP. Required not too much of a time investment to get into. I liked Runescape's fun interactive quests. Sure, they were goofy, but where enjoyable and felt better than almost everything else out today. I can't stand the current gear treadmill that exist in current MMOs: Quests give you decent armor, Do a dungeon every 10 or so levels for more armor, No point in crafting armor due to above reason unless the crafting skill is max level(Then it probably has endgame use).
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Nothing really. I want a player driven MMO with tons of possibilities. That or decent action based combot, I'm tried hot key combat.

It caught my attention that MMO threads used to be weekly threads. Now, they are daily threads. Why is that? Summer?

They've been daily for months now. I know this because I'm almost always lurking them

Communities don't make games. Studios either have a clue about what's interesting, or they're basically just dev'ing randomly.

"What makes a game motivating to play?" "What is decent mobility and replayability like?" These have simple answers.

Theme parks are the problem. Sandbox elements are a really simple improvement.

I am gonna blame facebook games.

>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Skill and items matter far more than level. A group of 6 level 20's should stomp a level 50 and have a chance against a level 80. Mount&Blade style combat where you attack and block in specific directions, no autotarget or autoattack.

Combat should be overwhelmingly pvp with pve being restricted to high level dungeons and stuff, the entire map should have pvp enabled with a level restriction based on your location. In a starting area, anyone within say 5 levels of you can freely attack you, however starting a fight will "mark" you. When marked, people can attack you without being marked themselves. Further from a starting zone, the level threshold will raise until anyone can attack anyone regardless of level. You level infinitely but after level 80, you reset to level 80 on death.

Leveling system not too unlike runescape. Your combat level is not influenced by noncombat skills (or the other way around), and your combat level is calculated by your combat skill levels (runescape uses attack, strength, defense, ranged, and magic, don't have an exact plan for what the skills would be in this scenario)

Players take over premade camps and forts on the map and can decorate/fortify them with the construction skill, this would be for hardcore neckbeards who can play daily to defend it. Most people would instead be homeless or get a home inside of a town. Items can be stored in banks, slots are purchased with ingame money.

Skills:
Combat skills (no plan)
Fishing
Cooking
Crafting
Construction
Alchemy
Farming
Sailing
Survival
Magic skills (no clear plan, magic would be some extreme thing that most players never touch due to its inconvenience and complexity. Let's say it takes 300 hours to reach 80 combat through melee/ranged, 1000 hours on a typical magic build. Mages would still rely on melee combat to deal damage)

Eastern aesthetic. No knights, green grass, wizards, castles etc. Armor is rare, most people have clothes and a weapon.

Sandbox doesn't immediately better there are elements of sandbox which are great and parts where theme parks are great.

The best way to save mmo's has already been done. Guild wars style of really short time to get to max level and having almost all the content is tuned for max level play.

Guild wars is funny in that people used to say it wasn't even an mmo because of how instanced everything was.

Also interesting pvp that guild wars had was amazing. Literally one of the most skill based pvp in an mmo ever.

What about the new generation of people that would take place of those who grew up?

Why even have level 50/80 at that point?

No classes (you would have a title like "warrior" or "hunter" or "shaman" below your name based on your skills/build but you wouldn't be locked to it, it would change as you change) and the races would all be humans, instead of normal factions you would join the guard force of a city. You would receive payment and items as long as you are within a certain radius of the city, and you are restricted from attacking people who aren't marked.

Some cities would be at war and their guards would have free combat enabled (no level restrictions, no marking) against eachother.

The goal is for most players to be cannibalistic savages with just a sword and maybe some sandals, constantly killing eachother to loot whatever scraps they can get. Making the game free with a 20 level cap for free players would help make this a reality. Meanwhile any items worth a damn concentrate to the people who have decent gear or work together in clans, they would be the de facto rulers of the game.

>Sandbox doesn't immediately better
Yes it does. The only MMO that is an actual sandbox right now is EVE, and its only problem is the gating.

Nobody ever knows enough about it to actually criticize it. The game has some of the most diverse and quick 3D combat in the market.

>leveling
Archaic and irrelevant to enjoyment. Games can be fun without shitting on classes for 75% of the game.

>theme park content
Has to be made manually. Sandboxes have replayability and depth. It's that obvious.

This graph shows that some 70% of paid MMO income is from Asia. That's huge for judging a game like WoW's Asian population that doesn't even pay a sub, just per minute logged in at $2.50 per 1300. Bullshit, "12M" and now "5M" subs.

here's a primitive map of the setting, far from completion.

The map is also built for a /tg/ setting and not an MMO

>What MMOs are you currently playing
Anarchy Online, almost dead though

Kids have more to worry about these days like keeping up with social media and identifying their gender.

...

"Normies" is such a cop out.

Some game should copy EVE without the skill queue system.

That post is just implications. MMOs just aren't fun games right now.

>leveling is archaic
Eve has leveling it's just not a master level it's instead sub levels.

..Which completely prevents end game play thriving. What would it be like if every corp had the potential to be a Goons? Every problem with leveling is still inherent with EVE's SP.

>What ruined MMOs?
They're too easy.
Too linear.
No emphasis on exploration or secret areas.
Less focus on player interaction (although I think people in general are just less social even on MMOs these days)

>How do we fix them?
We can't I don't think. The first MMOs I played I was still astonished by the fact you could talk to all these different people and I thought it was really cool. Now whenever I log on it's the same old copy pasted crap world with some bullshit story and the same mechanics. If you've played one MMO you've played 99% of the others to some degree. It's upto companies to innovate.

>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Huge open, non linear world and dungeons
Very solid art direction (I was a huge fan of .hack GU for that reason actually, it looked like an ideal MMO visuals wise)
I'm a sucker for MMOs that incorporate a TCP in the game and you can collect monster cards to fight with .
Following on from that, other stuff to do in game when you just don't feel like grinding (e.g make your own guild HQ and have a specific area for it)
Action oriented combat, not just click and auto attack/auto spell.


>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?

None, I've given up on the genre. Even the ones that seem amazing and unique always end up being the same shit.
The genre is stale.

Then you have no feelings of progression unless you do a loot based game and the loot determines your characters abilities. Games where literally all content is not gated is instead gated by time. So you can build a log cabin from the second you get off the boat but it take 3 days to gather the materials.

Your trading one master for another.

is there a good mmo about taming monsters and making a team for pvp

Tabletop games are better mmos

>What ruined MMOs
Datamining ruined the mystery and fantasy in MMOs, they're just games now. They're also really fucking hard to design. Just look at how WoW flip flops from being really fun to shit on a patch to patch basis, or how Guild Wars 2 has never had a piece of fun, meaningful content. Or just how long it takes to push updates out.

Most MMO content patches are pretty fun in general, if you're a fan of the genre, the issue is that content rarely has any longevity, and players burn through content waaaaaaaaaay faster than Devs can keep up with.

...

>emphasis on exploration or secret areas

What MMOs even had this?

Tried Guild Wars 2 for the first time yesterday.
It actually manages to not only play worse, but to look way worse than the original.

Amazing.

Guild wars 2 had phenominal exploration, art, and world design.

It just dropped the ball on literally everything else, and thats not an exaggeration. Post launch content was pretty bad, with the occassional cool patch. Expansion was a gigantic kick in the dick for any fans they had left. A lot of the people who play the game are hardcore drones, or people who dont have anything else.
What didnt you like about the visuals? Its the only thing the game got right, and I think they nailed it desu

I think the combat system in GW2 is actually one of the best compromises between tab-target and action combat and I thought it was pretty good if they were going in another direction.
It has nothing to do with GW1 though and the art direction (not necessarily quality), the music and core gameplay of GW1 is strictly better imo.

>Then you have no feelings of progression
Why? There's still progression, from affording ships, actual piloting skill and game knowledge, market savvy and resources, production lines, corps, null sovereignty..

Not trading shit.

>What didnt you like about the visuals? Its the only thing the game got right, and I think they nailed it desu
Animations seemed really wonky was what I noticed most, everything about the character models seemed really budget.

Not even WoW has just click and auto attack. If you only do that, you'll progress nowhere.

1)What ruined MMOs?
I used to play this Mud called "Dragon Realms." It's actually still going but when I played, there were thousands of other players online in a typical night. The game was one of the best I've played and that hasn't changed even though it completely lacked graphics or modern technology. The reason was simple: it was completely open ended and the game world was constantly being added to. One of my favorite things to do in that game was steal from players that had been killed and not revived yet. They'd get sooo pissed and they'd chase me for hours.

Second to that was ultima online. All I'd do in that game was go around checking if doors were unlocked to player homes. When they were, I'd loot everything I could get my hands on.

In the past 20 or so years though, MMOs just aren't made for people like me. They are made for the care-bears. I haven't seen a game that meets my expectations for open ended criminality like the early days since Eve and even that game only had that "feel" for the first couple of years.

So the key for a good MMO imo is for it to be open ended AND contain carebears that really don't understand that the object of the game is to take advantage of other people. The problem is that most games will get abandoned by carebears leaving only the theives and griefers behind - and it's no fun when everybody expects that stuff to happen.

The next good MMO will have to attract carebears and keep them hooked despite people like me lurking in the game.

What the fuck made this game so enjoyable

>30 different classes
>primary class is selected at character creation and is permanent for that character
>secondary classes are earned via specific quests, every class can be unlocked as secondary
>no leveling system
>abilities and passives are unlocked via spending skill points in talent trees
>skill points are obtained by using power crystals (lack of a better term)
>power crystals are obtained from rare mobs
>rare mobs are just normal mobs that spawned with slightly higher stats and a colored aura (small chance of occurring based on mob's "level")
>power crystals are tradeable
>maximum of 100 skill points
>skill points and secondary class can be changed and redistributed for free at any inn
>can mix and match various classes together like Berserker/Pyromancer or Necromancer/Druid for example, or can choose to invest all 100 points into your primary tree and be a pure Berserker, Necromancer, etc.
>skill points in secondary tree can not exceed the amount of skill points in primary tree
>every class, no matter the configuration, will have 30-40 different abilities when all 100 skill points are spent
>every class has a different purpose in combat. some are damage dealers, some are healers, some are controllers, some are buffers/support, some are debuffers, some can perform multiple roles albeit not as well as a pure, etc.
>combat functions identically to WoW, but on a modern engine that's even smoother and less laggy
>every mob in the game is assigned a class and skill point distribution, only use abilities that players can use themselves
>PvE functions identically to PvP, just against mobs with scaling AI based on preset difficulty

cont'd..

See when people talk about 'exploration' I have no idea what they mean. In GW2 the exploration was just pointed out to you. 'Go here and get some exp for climbing to the top of this hill' etc etc. How is that any different from a regular themepark?

I'm the guy you replied to originally and by exploration I was thinking along the lines of Maplestory. It doesn't really give you any heads up where to go which was one of the points that made it cool for me.
So for instance, there's no "This is the level 10 area okay now I have to go to the lvl 15 area". Not explicitly anyway.
That and hidden streets were really cool, just secret areas that weren't pointed out to you and you wouldn't know about them unless you learned them from somebody else or a website or something.

>"The spiritual successor of Ragnarok Online!"

I am still fucking mad.

..cont'd

>crafting professions work on a 1000-point system
>utilizing a profession skill rewards a certain amount of points, points effectively serve as levels
>creating a high level chestplate will yield 3 Armorsmithing points for example
>When a player reaches 1000 profession points, gaining new points will push the oldest profession points out and replace them
>specializing and maintaining a particular profession point build requires a lot of maintenance and dedication
>crafting armor/weapons involves getting the raw materials (metal/skins/cloth/wood/etc) and imbuing them with "augments"
>every single item in the game serves as an augment and correlates to a stat/stat value
>a certain fish for example, when its imbued with a piece of crafted gear, will add +1 to swimming speed
>a different fish will add +1 underwater breathing for example
>endgame monsters like helldemons or dragons will drop their teeth and eyes and scales that will add +5 fire resistance or +5 slashing damage, for example
>hundreds of different stats will exist in the game, many of which being non-combat oriented
>being a higher level blacksmith/tailor/craftsman allows you to imbue more augments onto a single piece of gear
>gear appearance is determined by the highest stat on the item
>gear with +fire damage as the highest stat will be tinted red/fiery themed, etc
>this system allows every possible stat permutation on gear to be accessible to players
>armor type (cloth/leather/mail/plate) isn't limited to certain classes
>every class can wear any type of weapon/armor, there are no level restrictions/requirements on gear either
>all items can be traded always, no soulbinding
>armor type will have different combat effects based on armor slot
>plate armor in the leg slot will greatly increase magical snare duration while greatly decreasing physical snare duration, cloth armor in the leg slot will greatly reduce magical snare duration while greatly increasing physical snare duration

DFO.

It's a combo game, so for 99% of classes, creativity and spacing is key. This class unfortunately has the problem of every move in each hotkey (which comprises of multiple moves through the hotkey crafting system) having more damage the deeper it goes, so it's always best to just spam a single key until it's on CD (through all the abilities in its slot).

I'm a proponent of sandbox MMOs, rather than themepark MMOs. I really got in to the genre during EverQuest and I think that one of the core flaws that we see dominate modern titles is the notion that the individual player is "special" to the narrative.

Remove questing as a means of leveling up:
The idea that every player should walk through the same linear quest line and have had the same experience by the time they reach X-Level is literally the cancer killing the genre. Replace questing with "Achievements". As abhorrent as that might sound, consider the implementation: Players leave town/city to play and upon returning NPCs at the local Guild Hall or Tavern would talk about what they'd been doing. Kill 50 wolves? People recognize you as a proficient hunter of wolves. Find a secret location? You're a treasure hunter. Explore an entire zone? An experienced cartographer. Implement tools for players to role play these achievements (actually drawing maps to sell to players would be awesome...). Reward players with gold/experience in much the way quests do, but you let them play their own story and do whatever they wish when out in the world. In this way each player gets to focus on the parts of the world -they- find interesting. They get to explore and conquer and they get to do it because -they- wanted to, not because NPC-X told them to.

>Encourage group play:
Make zones progressively less developed and safe as they move away from central cities. Each of these zones would be split between thematically modest solo-able areas (fields with animals or something) and more thematically interesting group content (a bandit hide out inside a mountain cave) at a rate of roughly 25/75. Have monsters or areas that take a group to defeat or explore generally result in ~10x the experience. Permitting solo play allows players to always feel like they can make progress, but making group play so much more attractive (more interesting content, more areas, faster leveling, better items) you nurture the community. Also tie this into point 1 where players can get achievements for grouping with the same players multiple days in a row (You're part of a well known gang, or something).

>Allow players to role play non-combat-centric experiences:
Those zones that are less developed? Allow players to level up whole classes that revolve around resource and good production (sort of like how FFXIV has whole jobs that craft). The actual process of producing goods would have to be engaging (mini-games for the manual labor, in depth economic principles like making contracts with guilds so they have to buy all of your goods first or something) but allow these merchant players to establish temporary forts/camps in these frontier zones. This reward players with a sense of agency, being able to have a tangible ability to develop and change the world.

>Making exploration difficult and engaging by establishing real risk:
This is the "death penalty" that so many younger players abhor. The fact of the matter is though, if death (or failure) isn't something you REALLY want to avoid, success doesn't mean as much. This can be implemented in various ways, but you always want to take away the exact thing the player was attempting to gain when they chose to take the action that failed: EXP loss when you die (you grind specifically to gain EXP so that's what you take away when they die), crafting materials break when you fail to make something, bad planning will bring an established frontier fort down, so on and so forth.

>Allow for many different avenues of progression:
This can be done in many different ways as well, but examples can be: using certain types of spells will develop them not just in strength (cast Fire enough and the Fire spell will do more damage) but also in function (Cast Fire spell enough, and it'll eventually get so hot that it adds a DoT burn, or makes enemies panic, or damages equipment, or whatever). This can also be done by adding in NPC "quests" (I know, I just said get rid of those... but wait!) in the form of allowing the players to assume specific roles in the society: Join the army and get issued missions. Become a sailor and have missions to take out a boat (preferably your own boat...) and find/deliver/slay whatever. The game simply needs to reinforce multiple different interests by letting the player's take fundamentally different options (you don't get army missions to do army stuff -unless you join the army-). Note that these options should also limit the player in some way. A decorated soldier of a nation should be punished for PvPing against members of his own nation, for instance.

This is the one that made me give up the genre completely.
I used to fool myself with every announcement for MMOs that it would be good this time. Then I just stopped believing.
Then they announced this years ago and I promised myself if it was shit I'd never get hyped for an MMO again.
My own damn fault. What a buggy piece of shit, braindead game.
The fact it has a defense force is the most egregious thing about it.

The entire goal of this system is to foster a community that interacts with each other, while allowing the player to right their own story. The goal of an MMO should be to allow grand adventures that are wholly -yours-. When you play a single player RPG, everyone has the same boss fights and meets the same NPCs. The GREAT stories we all tell each other about our MMO days are when we did "this one crazy thing, and jesus you'd never believe it! You had to be there!".

I'd love to see an MMO that did these things.

>What ruined MMOs?
Warlords of Draenor.
>How do we fix them?
By forcing Blizzard to release legacy servers.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Nostalrius with the updated graphics and animations.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Kronos 2, i'm waiting for legacy servers.

Same here,
Fuck I can't stand themepark MMO's anymore this is bullshit and ToS is completely different to RO and I'm pretty fucking mad too buddy

still hurts a bit when I remember

>Those TP prices
Even Nexon doesn't jew that hard

>gathering professions aren't tied to a level or points system
>gathering efficiency and potential is based on tools/equipment used
>attempting to mine a high level mineral node with a starter pickaxe will take an hour to do, but can still be done
>getting higher quality pickaxes through blacksmithing/questing will reduce time spent mining mineral nodes by a certain %, allowing miners to gather higher level nodes in a timely manner
>minerals don't just regenerate in specific spots randomly, they replenish in volcanic areas sporadically (oceanic vents on the seafloor, volcanic eruptions, deep caverns)
>woodcutting works identically to blacksmithing
>trees don't grow back automatically, saplings must be planted and roughly one week (depending on tree type) must pass before wood is harvestable from that tree
>fishing success is based on area, fishing rod, and bait utilized
>a tier 1 fish caught with worms is used to catch a tier 2 fish, a tier 2 fish is used to catch a tier 3 fish, etc
>farming success is based on soil quality, seed type, and nurturing crops during their growth properly
>inventory space is limited via a weight system
>players utilize constructed wagons with beasts of burden to transport large amounts of resources

The soundtrack was the only good thing. Might as well release it as Ragnarok Online OST B-Side.

What's the matter anons, is not like the game requires a single item with a really low drop rate to progress past level 100 or anything.

It's not like only 4 classes of 80 are viable when you could run a int/dex stalker in RO and fuck people's shit up.

MMO isn't a genre but a distribution platform.

>entire world is spherical, no running into invisible walls and artifical barriers at the map's end like you do with flat plane worlds
>entire world is open, free for all PvP except for the safe starting area
>items may drop on death based on server type you choose to play on (hardcore or standard)
>attacking and killing an innocent player marks you with a red icon (red-handed), attacking a red-handed player does not mark you with as red-handed
>killing a red-handed player yields a criminal's head, criminals' heads can be traded at NPCs for useful items
>entire world outside of safe zone can be built upon freely by players utilizing the construction skill
>player structures can also be freely attacked and destroyed
>players can also craft siege devices (cannons, catapults, etc) using the construction skill which are very efficient at taking down player structures
>storage in the safe area is extremely limited, players must look to set up storage in unsafe area to store a large amount of items if they wish to do so
>storage can be accessed by anyone, but storage containers can also be locked
>locks on storage containers can be picked by players with the proper items
>endgame will involve groups of players walling off important resource areas (mines, tree farms, etc) with constructed walls, basing villages around these areas, and defending them from opposing guilds looking to access these resources

I hear TESO actually picked up major time, and now there's no subscription fee. I'm kinda tempted to try that, since I'm mostly done with Secret World.

I think the host your own will be the new form of MMO in the next few years.

This is great, I've always wanted to play a game designed for nothing but griefing.

How hard is it for a new player to get into mabinogi?

>What ruined MMOs?
Themeparks, the idea that any kind of convenience is objectively superior good game design and an improvement, the removal of human interaction being favored so you can play the game solo, the idea that progress and grinding should be like an eternal checklist and not a more interesting pool of limited contested resources that come and go dynamically. Oh, and accepting masked P2W as not being P2W.

>How do we fix them?
You can't. Modern industry sees MMOs as WoW and only as WoW. Therefore, you'll get a "go" at the project only under the conditions that you make a dead and buried game, thus eliminating the chances of ever making a good MMO in the first place. The best option is to forget about them, they're dead.

>ideal MMO
any of the oldschool ones (that means pre-WoW, babby) except not dead in the water, with only quality of netcode/server hosting improvements. Secondary balancing/design can all change as you keep the core vision the same.

>waiting for?
Nothing, I moved onto competitive multiplayer or singleplayer. Don't even follow any of the upcoming ones, I stopped caring entirely.

The best gameplay comes from primarily PvP games with high stakes, imo.

Serious question guys, do you think deadly boss mods ruined WoW?

Any thoughts on this game?