What went wrong ?

What went wrong ?

Nothing, it got positive reviews.

People who don't understand good game design were triggered because it wasn't a carbon copy of Baldur's Gate but instead chose to improve upon it

Its a good game, which means Sup Forums hates it

Bland story, bland characters. bland world, BLAND EVERYTHING

The only problem I had with it was the Dev's pandering to trannies. But other than that, it was okay.

They specifically made fun of the SJW who whined about it and later included Firedorn as a tranny npc to kill in the expansion

Please educate yourself before you get triggered

They played it completely safe with the story and characters.

It just didn't have any particularly memorable moments that stick out. Compare any of the conversations to stuff like talking with Myrkul in MotB or the scene with Kreia on Dantooine in KotOR 2, and you'll see that the particular touch Obsidian is known for was completely absent.

It wasn't a horrible game by any means, but when it came to the plotline and characters, it was really average in most respects. Which is a real fucking shame.

>completely safe with the story and characters
only by Obsidian standards

compared to the average Bioware title and their ilk it's edgy as fuck

>compared to the average Bioware title and their ilk it's edgy as fuck

Maybe, but that doesn't somehow make me enjoy the game any more.

Stronghold could have been so much better.
Itemization the same.

Otherwise, I can't think of anything major off the top of my head. I loved the game.

>average Bioware
Average Bioware did things like Jade Empire at one point where you use the blood of your own comrades to weaken a god.

PoE is hollow as shit even if you look at RPGs made past IE engine era.

Age of Decadence came out and despite having only 1 party member and a diff battle system trumps it in every single other regard.

bland, boring, uninteresting story

badly written characters. don't get me wrong, there's no glaring flaws in writing, it's just that there's nothing to catch your attention or to make you invested

the combat is not fun. every class feels bland and none of the hooks for the classes work

you don't ever feel invested in the PC because you never get to make choices that genuinely shape him

I don't get how the makers of new vegas and kotor 2 could make such a bland game

I see you didn't play PoE then
or maybe you just skipped all the dialogue

age of decadence is utter shit

You only get EXP by completing quests and not from combat but there are enemies to fight every 5 steps.

Also it felt incredibly generic, I get that was they point by the played it waaaaay too safe.

No friend, ex-bioware employees now working at obsidian did Jade Empire

Nah i'll do what I want and you cant stop me.

...

Pretty bland plot, setting and such. I wasn't engaged at all with was going on and lost interest.

>What went wrong

That problem has a name and its name is Josh Sawyer

Oh no, my friend, unfortunately i did, and twice.
PoE's writing is extremely hollow even when they try to describe violence or show "tragic" death like it was with Webb. There wasn't a SINGLE instance in this game that gave me any emotional impact, it's just an extremely boring mystery chase ending with pretentious fedoracore bullshit.

Dreary, miserable long winded writing.

When will this game get interesting?
I just talked with the hanged woman and the game was boring except this and the swearing elf.

Can someone post a link to Sawyer himself saying what went wrong?

You can literally sacrifice your companions in a pool of blood dedicated to an evil god in PoE and it makes your character stronger

>ctr f 'bland'
>8 matches

cant you rpgcodex niggers come up with some new shit once in a while

Can't poeniggers bring up any counter-argument instead of shouting about rpgcodex?

The base game is pretty dull, but the expansions are extremely good.

How is part two? I haven't played that one yet.

and it STILL won't have any emotional impact nor any long-lasting consequences

I've been playing it on and off, just reached that city.

The way stronghold works is dumb as fuck and Aloth loves dying, but Cipher is cool as shit so whatever.

I've been on Codex since 2006 and I love PoE

How did it not have consequences? The companions you sacrifice are removed from the game.

It shares it's acronym with a better game. Also, the character models look ugly as fuck.

>nor any long-lasting consequences
>death of a companion

Don't you get it? That user says the game is shit SO THE GAME SHIT, SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH

It's even better, if a bit more linear. In fact I'd say the expansion doesn't really work without part 2 and splitting it up was a huge mistake by Obsidian.

On its own part 1 mostly feels like a pointless dungeon crawl, but it's actually laying the important groundwork for part 2.

given how poorly they minmaxed and how bland their personalities are this doesn't matter
i will just hire an adventurer

>things that you can do in pretty much any rpg
>somehow now it's special

And it still felt hollow. PoE has all the "weird" and "dark" shit that has come to characterize Obsidian games but it had no impact and it felt a lot more like going through the motions. It has a woman getting raped, incest, monster children trying to kill you and mental decay, and it still felt really shallow and emotionally distant and I think I know why. First reason I can come up with is the very poor pacing of the story and the overwritten dialogue and exposition which makes reading it mentally fatigue you. The second reason that I can come up with is that none of the "fucked up" things translate well into the rest of the game. Like I said, it has rape and it's a place where no children have been born in a long time, yet one in every two bandit and bandit leaders are women and you kill them in droves. You'd think that in a more "realistic" setting like this (Realistic meaning that it has the harsh realities of life) women's lives would hold more value and the males wouldn't let them throw their lives away, but that doesn't happen.

It has the pretense of being a mature setting and a classic Obsidian game but it doesn't manage to get the tone right and it tells a lot more than it shows.

>Bland
>argument

what

But Jade Empire had good characters? Lol, keep riding that Bioware dick dude.

That's good then. All I have left in part 1 is the fight with the big bad archmage guy, and two of his 'apprentices'. I haven't decided which one, if any, I'll 'ally' with and I've been sitting on that for months, for some reason. I'll get to it eventually.

It was just completely non-interesting for me. Granted, I was never hooked by BG, so the nostalgia factor wasn't there for me, however I hoped that PoE would be the one interesting enough to let me enjoy this genre for once.

Yet as I played for like two hours, I just couldn't get into it. The story wasn't really all that cool or interesting, some sidequests I've met were kinda cool (I guess?), and that one priest was quite amusing, however I just wish this was a campaign my friend made in tabletop and I could enjoy it with my group and some intoxicants.

Nothing against the people who liked it, but this game just had nothing in it for me.

this

>general didn't last even two weeks
>least talked of all the Obsidian games, even NWN 2 gets more appreciation
>holds no candle to the discussion levels of game like Alpha Protocol, KOTOR 2, P:T and F:NV
>people still act as if it wasn't a huge letdown

there's not a single PoE character who could hold a candle to Glorious Strategist
and this comes from a person who generally dislikes bioware

That's actually a pretty good argument and I agree with it to a large extent. There's a major dissonance between the tone of the story and what actually happens on screen. The wichts or whatever the monster kids are called is a perfect example - in dialogue it's a horrific tragedy yet your party slaughters them by the dozens and none of your companions give a shit.

Shouldn't killing a child with the soul of an animal should be emotionally taxing? Yet it doesn't come up once.

Low IQ gaming generation.

This type of game came about during an era where there were about only 80-120k 'PC gamers', whom can afford a PC and probably needed a PC to do their jobs, basically people with an IQ of 110+.

We're living in an era of 2 billion gamers and suffice to say most people are stupid.

>You'd think that in a more "realistic" setting like this (Realistic meaning that it has the harsh realities of life) women's lives would hold more value and the males wouldn't let them throw their lives away

Stop injecting your stupid /r9k/ bullshit into videogames, faggot, you're acting like an SJW.

overbalanced and hardly engaging

plus the motherfucking Temple of Skaen quest

I'm acting like a SJW for wanting internal consistency in a video game where they advertised it as being a "mature game for mature gamers such as yourself"? I wouldn't give a shit about it if it was set in a DND setting or any generic fantasy setting because it doesn't fucking matter. But when you introduce realism and something as tone defying as rape, pregnancy and inheritance issues, it doesn't work and it falls apart if you don't go all the way through.

Maybe pay attention to the post before you decide to get triggered.

Too many bugs on launch to be remotely playable. They're probably fixed by now, but I haven't been fucked to get back to it yet.

*tone defining, sorry

It thinks it's a book.

No, you're acting like an SJW for going "my personal beliefs on how the world works are required to be put in a game for it to be realistic". It's the forcing your own beliefs onto things that don't need to fucking have anything to do with them that's SJW.

PoE was advertised as a return to classic RPG's, by the way, not a mature game for mature gamers. Not in the way you're implying at least.

I did pay attention to your entire second point, and it was "This game isn't realistic because the women in it aren't just pandered little babies, despite it not ever professing to be the same as our world, or share the same views of gender".

It's ironic you're saying I'm triggered while you claim a game is shit for not pandering to your beliefs, by the way.

I had fun with it. I even read all the books. Am I nerd?

>pillars
>good game design

7/10, i responded

Worst thing about it was the unique special snowflake backer NPCs littering the world.

Thought those gold nameplates meant something important, but it's just fanfic.

I think you can still kill them without any consequences and loot their shit, as long as nobody's watching that is.

its generally pretty good. the writing feels really dense, not sure if that's the best choice for a video game. 7/10 look forward to their next

I think you're so eager to take the moral high ground of pretending to be "better than both sides" that you're both not paying attention to what I'm saying and you're ignoring how real life works to do so.

>This game isn't realistic because the women in it aren't just pandered little babies, despite it not ever professing to be the same as our world, or share the same views of gender

That's not what I said. Stop putting your words in my mouth. I don't want it to pander to my beliefs, I criticized it for not having internal consistency despite desperately trying to have a mature story. And yes, Sawyer did fucking advertise it as being mature and realistic and it certainly tried to do that, and I'm telling you why it failed:

Men are expendable and women aren't. A society's survival depends on the availability and safety of women because of their wombs. Which is why in pre-industrial societies, men did all the fighting and all the hard jobs while women stayed at home and were protected by men. It's because men evolved to do that on account of their otherwise genetic uselessness, while women have evolved to defend themselves and to select the right men to bear their children, since a healthy man meant higher chances of survival for her and the child. It's not a personal belief, it's natural selection met in every mammal. And like I said before, I wouldn't give a shit about it if they didn't try to have their cake and eat it too. I've been playing tabletop and computer rpgs before you were born so I know how to suspend my disbelief and I know what is worth and isn't caring about. But they tried to have a gritty realistic story with "well thought out civilizations" and fell flat on their faces because they told a lot more than they showed, and I used the women bandits as an example, and not as the defining reason. I could use another example, if that triggers you so much, such as Godlikes being supposedly rare yet half the kikestarter npcs are godlike.

step back gentlemen it's a legitimate archmage

Is that supposed to be an insult?

only if you get insulted fampai

>
That's not what I said. Stop putting your words in my mouth. I don't want it to pander to my beliefs, I criticized it for not having internal consistency despite desperately trying to have a mature story.

You literally did. You claimed it's unrealistic because there's female bandit leaders you kill, and that the women shouldn't be allowed to fight in that world because it's aiming to be realistic.

I'm not going to reply to each point in the rest of your autistic rant, because it all boils down to "Why is this fantasy video game not the same as our world?". Because it's not our world. The only reason you can't suspend your disbelief here is because it's women in a situation of power, which you personally see as not okay.

There is no issues with internal consistency, because it's never claimed in the game that all women are weak and looked after by men, nor is it ever aimed to be a realistic depiction of a pre-industrial society.

That's why I'm saying you're an SJW. Not because I somehow disagree with what you're saying about what the real world was like at one point, but that you're injecting your political views into a fantasy video game.

>Godlikes being supposedly rare yet half the kikestarter npcs are godlike.

Very minor issue, but sure, you have a point. I think it's more a result of giving donators the ability to write their own stuff than any actual development issue, the game wouldn't be out if they gave them the ability to create an NPC and then went "nah we don't like that, fuck you", they wouldn't have got a lot of donations that they needed.

That is some r9k fedoracore shit

betacuckfaggot

It is really fucking boring and sleep inducing. Story moves at glacial pace and in general feels like it is going nowhere. Gameplay very much suits it, as combat is painfully average and balanced, which makes it a chore, especially on higher difficulties.

Overall it is decent game, but the one you have no desire to play through second time at all.

it went after the gods so Sup Forums-- I-I mean Sup Forums got mad

Consider acting your age and refraining from articulating further responses to a child.

It was written by a woman, and women can't into 2deep4u political/social/philosophical commentary, which is something that's common in all Obsidian games.

Once again you completely ignore what I said and you call me autistic because you lack a vocabulary.

>
There is no issues with internal consistency, because it's never claimed in the game that all women are weak and looked after by men, nor is it ever aimed to be a realistic depiction of a pre-industrial society.

Not what I said once again.

Let me remind you about the biggest plot point at the start of the game (Don't worry, I understand why you'd forget about it, they didn't do anything with it): No children have been born in a long time and it is shown that men like lord what's his face and the other guy were desperately trying to have children. So we have a problem where the survival of the colony is in jeopardy because all babies are born without souls or turn into monsters, and it has already skipped a generation. So it introduced this major demographic problem, while also introducing characters who are trying to fix it and a bunch of other spots of "realism" such as rape and incest. But, despite all of this, it does not show the society of the place being changed after all these years and the attitudes of the locals. Everyone acts like they're in a post-industrial society despite the impeding disaster and are throwing valuable resources like women to the wolves instead of acting rationally (Or, rather, normally). If you'd also remember, the writers even introduce real life pre-industrial gender roles for the black venetians, with the bird godlike saying that women in their society stay at home while men do all the fighting and work and the only reason she was allowed to become a paladin was cause she's a godlike so she can't give birth.

So it HAS realism, and it has a real life-like internal logic. It tells you about it but it never shows it to you, which is what I'm trying to tell you.

But as I write this I realize that I'm wasting my time so I'll stop since you're so caught up on your crusade against a strawman you've created.

Well shit I was too late. I tried.

Now the thread will be only be one of fucking many that is wholly ruined by two immature faggots who obsess over having the last word.

This shit is so goddamn grating and tiring.

I'm on Sup Forums so I'm already not acting my age.

>everyone has to act like a teenage brat while on Sup Forums
If this is what you're implying, then, by all means, I sincerely beg of you to either stop posting indefinitely or become an hero. Whichever you choose, take the other kid with you.

Polite sage for responding.

>ou claimed it's unrealistic because there's female bandit leaders you kill, and that the women shouldn't be allowed to fight in that world because it's aiming to be realistic.

Realism in setting not realism like a translation from life to game.

A null birthrate would lead to greater protection of women. A biological necessity of procreation.

There needs to be consistency between the lore/world you build and the world the players interact with.

Using their first rough draft and chucking most of Avellone's text into the trash because he wanted to make things too complex.

And you're ignoring my entire post to go "Women aren't all locked up in houses as babymakers, game is shit". It's not the fucking real world. Sure, that issue is introduced, but do you think that the fucking bandits give a shit about the birth issue? I'm pretty sure being a bandit is proof you don't give a shit about society or the lives of others. Also, I called your rant autistic, not you, don't bitch about me putting words in your mouth and then do exactly that.

You're complaining that some societies in the game do not act the way you'd like them to, despite them never claiming to. This is not an internal consistency issue, this is you going "I don't like the game world".

The game is not trying to be realistic. It has magic and other races and is blatantly a fantasy world, yet you're claiming that because it has rape in it, it's realistic as opposed to just dark fantasy.

Then you go out of your way to mention a society with a completely fucking different set of values that are in keeping with what you're saying exists, so that's proof all societies should be the same.


Your point that the population is dwindling so women exclusively shouldn't be able to risk their lives is fucking dumb. You never mention that in a dwindling population, no-one should be risking their lives if it's aiming to be completely logical and just like how you imagine the real world was (women weren't valued above everything else, they just weren't allowed to fight).

>strawman you've created.

It's not a strawman if it's literally one of your major points mate, that you outright stated.

This thread was shit anyway. Nothing we're doing stops anyone else from also having a discussion around us by the way.

>A null birthrate would lead to greater protection of women. A biological necessity of procreation.

As I said earlier, a null birthrate would lead to a massive value put on preservation of life full stop if we assume everyone's acting logically.

It boring. Simply put it is downright boring. I played throught it and the neverending dungeon and maxed out the castle.

It never got good.

Good job of bitching about him ignoring your post when you say his point is "Women aren't all locked up in houses as babymakers, game is shit" even though he explained why it isn't.

Nice try.

But his point literally is that, in that particular settlement, women aren't locked up and used for procreation.

>nobody mentions the stats

The fucking attributes in the game man

what the fuck were they thinking

The combat was really boring. The spells all looked like shit, the characters would never move as you wanted to thus making it impossible to tank enemies properly with your tank characters. The writing in the game made me feel like I was reading a book, in a bad way, with paragraph upon paragraph about description and fluff, while failing at the most important, making interesting characters and plot.

I remember playing for hours waiting the game to "really start".

It never did.

>Can't poeniggers bring up any counter-argument
Be reasonable, there was no argument, so no opportunity for a counter argument was given.

>A normal day in sawyer's office
>Lets see how can I fuck the fun one more time!

>overbalanced
What does that even mean?

No, the point is that women are literally being killed in droves by the player character because they're half the bandit population because of some misguided sense of representation.

Awful encounter design was the cardinal sin for me. When you play tabletop, good encounter design is what seperates the wheat from the chaff as far as DMs go. "You fight 10 of these" is the most boring shit. And PoE was nothing but "you fight 10 of these". You very quickly distill a single strategy, so things get easy and repetitive very quickly.

what you two autists are arguing about is whether females engaged in banditry give a shit about demographics

you haven't even thought of their motivations - maybe they became bandits as they lost their place as childbearers? it's not a stretch to think of women banished from their home village for giving birth to a hollow kid

No waifus.

yeah it felt like a boring forgotten realms campaign where nothing fucking happens. I quit playing it when I got to the big city because the whole game felt like nothing but sidequests. There was no meat to the story despite all of the lore and the walls of text. The setting was an incoherent mess of random ideas. The combat wasn't much more than a barebones system. It was like the developers didn't have the ability to come up with a holistically coherent game.

Yeah, who the fuck wants games with replay value

>PoE
>Replay

Well, it was a nice try.

A system that actually makes use of all the stats and enables several different playstyles for each class

vs

Baldur's Gate AD&D where you reroll until you have 18 in all the stats that matter for your class so the stats might as well not exist

How can you not understand what they were thinking

>rpg codex shitters trying to bring up topic of garbage ass kickstarter game they supported that everyone wants to forget
>only doing htis becuase they are begging like a bunch of cancerous little shits for bethesda to do some update for new vegas

...