I'm curious where Sup Forums draws the line on piracy. Let's have a civil discussion about it and gather some results

I'm curious where Sup Forums draws the line on piracy. Let's have a civil discussion about it and gather some results.

strawpoll.me/10487096

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strawpoll.me/10487096
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There's no line. If you want to play multiplayer, you buy it.

There is no line.

If you take something that is sold without paying for it, then it's considered stealing.

Trying to justify it to yourself in your own little anonymous world with your little anonymous thief friends won't make the facts any different.

I believe very much in 'game feel'. Some games just don't feel as nice to play once you get your hands on them as they do when you watch it being played, or see a trailer.

So, I *very occasionally* use torrents to see how a game will play hands-on, as shareware would have in the past.

I still try to buy everything though. I have good internet averaging 14 - 15MB/s download so I could just get it all digital, but I like having something to hold and say I bought it. There is almost no chance I would pirate something and play the whole thing.

Recording "let's play" videos with unabridged gameplay is also piracy

Who's going to buy Heavy Rain after watching someone play it?

Literally kill yourself.

That's a completely different discussion.

Narrative games often have branching paths (unfortunately one of them I haven't played it Heavy Rain but I did play Fahrenheit) and different choices you can make, sometimes with smatterings of gameplay. Can you be arsed to either a) watch all the possibilities and accept the player may be making choices you don't want to see, or b) miss out on the gameplay sections for yourself?

Not to mention, especially with Telltale games, the price is fairly low. I think I actually re-bought both Walking Dead 1 and 2 for my GF on Vita for £14 total, if that.

I almost always pirate first.

But I end up buying games if I enjoy them (Stick of Truth, Cities Skylines, etc). And some times I just buy first if I like the developers (CIV 5, Stellaris, etc).

Never okay, but it won't stop me from doing it.

Truly euphoric opinion. *tip*

Why?

If the publisher isn't going to provide a demo or share-ware levels then I don't really know how it plays. Its also becoming harder to trust publishers out to get your money, so you don't even know if a game is good.

If I like what I play, then I buy it. If I don't, I delete it and don't buy it. All I'm avoiding is giving money for a shitty product.

You would test-drive a car. You would preview a song on iTunes. You would play a few riffs on a guitar. Why is a game any different?

>12 votes saying it's ok for emulation
I'm legitimately curious. Can anyone who voted that please explain your reasoning?

I pirate everything that I don't intend on playing multiplayer.
>Paying for software
HAHAAHAHAHAHAA
Its literally like burning money.
And since the war on piracy is over and the pirates won, there is really no consequence if you are using peerblock to mute your ISP and the ridiculously lenient rules for persecution they use.

>Can you be arsed to either a) watch all the possibilities and accept the player may be making choices you don't want to see, or b) miss out on the gameplay sections for yourself?

To the contrary, I would have no motivation to play if my gameplay path were even remotely similar to the one I watched. And heavy rain eg has colossal overlap

Piracy is a poor young mans thing, once you get some money of your own and wait for sales you should try to buy.

Why would I pay money for a decade old game

But he's right. Even if you can try justifying it, it doesn't change the fact that you stole the game.

I didn't steal it, I made a virtual copy of it. They don't have any fewer units to sell. it's not like shoplifting the game cd off the shelf.

That's fair. Like I said, I haven't played that particular Cage game, but I have played plenty other narrative games. I can understand if most choices converged to the same large plot markers, but I'd still want to play it so that every little choice was mine.

The company isn't going to get any money anyways. I'd just be giving money to some dumb hoarder.

The process of getting niche classic games is not worth the effort, let alone the exorbitant price.
>but muh collectables
Nigger I want to play vidya not mount it on a shelf.

I'm not buying a modern Nintendo console for old as shit games, otherwise it's option 2.

Uhhh, kinda a funny issue I guess. Usually I wouldn't condone of it, since I'm honestly a bit of a moralfag, but with companies that routinely bullshit and jerk us around about content, and nearly never deliver on our expectations, I think it's becoming more justified.

Its on the same level as stealing cable or directv.

I have a little RetroPie booting in to EmulationStation that I use for some multiplayer NES, NeoGeo and SNES gaming. I genuinely own a NES and several games for it, but for everything else it's abandonware. If I download a ROM of Mario 3, who exactly am I taking away from?

I'll get Nintendo's virtual console games if they release them, but they're releasing the 'classics' which I already played a long time ago (Super Metroid, Donkey Kong Country et al).

The more obscure NES games can be the most fun. It literally hurts nobody and I may have almost no other way to play them anyway.

This. There is zero harm done if you're dead broke. But once you start to get some money to yourself you should try to support the industry. At the very least developers you admire.

>There is zero harm done if you're dead broke.
Hey Bernie when i was 14 i mowed lawns around my neighborhood to save up for mw2

>be from Eastern Europe
>an AAA title costs anywhere between 10-20% of the monthly salary of an average person (when not on discount like steam etc.)
>devs want me to get their game in a legal fashion
>tfw I will only enjoy them for a couple of days at best because no replay value on most of them

fuck no
either they lower the prices for this market or I will keep sailin' the seven seas

Literally nobody can/wants to do anything about piracy here. Not even ISPs. They are even grateful people get high-speed internet to pirate stuff because they are using their product (Of course they won't just go ahead and say it publicly.)

Not to mention I already own the Virtual Consoles on cartridge (off the top of my head, Zelda, Zelda II, Swords and Serpents, Metroid, Smoking Gun, Mega Man 3, Super Mario 1/2/3) so I wouldn't be re-buying them anyway. It's just a better way to play them since the console is clunky and I prefer the Xbox controller now.

I think you mean stole a copy of a game, that has literally infinite copies available.
Theft or stealing only applies to real goods. Not a collection of virtual information.

>Piracy is always ok

If there's no demo or there isn't a refund policy - I'll pirate the game.

A game is interactive, expecting me to buy a game before I can try it is like expecting me to buy clothes before trying them on. If a developer is banking on the fact that their marketing has generated enough hype and enough people have bought into the game without knowing its true quality - then they're anti-consumer and I don't feel any remorse for "stealing" from them.

I'd argue that stealing from companies that routinely fail to deliver on expectations (and only become worse about) should have their shit taken, so that they either go bankrupt or get their shit together and stop dicking around.

Do you consider sneaking inside a rollercoaster for free also not stealing? It's about the experience you recieved, not about physical/virtual objects.

Which is still not stealing.
As it is not a physical thing.

>tfw you still mow lawns for cash

>mental gymnastics
Kid just stop stealing shit.

This is not how IP works

Your analogy is retarded and you should be put to death.

Establish a landscaping business on the backs of illegal immigrants.

No it isn't you dumb fuck.

Figure out a way to pilfer a roller coaster and get back to us sport.

copyright infringement is not theft.

It better be one of those huge ride-on motherfuckers that can shred a dog.

When I was very young in Primary school we weren't allowed on the field if it was being mowed by those because they were paranoid someone would jump underneath it.

>that is sold
And if it's no longer sold?

>what is Fair Use
This kills the IP.

Except to steal cable you actually have to physically jack into a cable line. That is trespassing, tampering, breaking and entering, etc.

A better analogy would be your friend with cable recording some shows and giving them to you.

>Kid just stop stealing shit
Name one reason why stealing from someone who is actively trying to scam you is in any way immoral.

>Bernie
kys

But in sneaking onto a roller coaster you're presumably taking up a seat that could have gone to a paying customer. It's about stealing something that's finite versus stealing something that's infinite.

>people don't check out and drive a vehicle before buying

Fucking retards.

The analogy is retarded, but you still get the point. You're supposed to pay to get your ride, getting in for free IS stealing.

if people wanna steal some shit and see how it is before they buy that's all well and good

if people wanna steal some shit and not ever pay that's where we're all going to disagree and get mad at each other

Comfort.

if i want to play a game on my computer, i will. if i want to hold the 3DS, Vita, or Wii U gamepad in my hands as i play then i buy it.

No, it's trespassing. You are not a very smart person and I hope everyone around you knows it.

I don't feel particularly bad about pirating literally everything.

Demos don't exist anymore, they've gone on to be a part of the greedy shilling setup, as is the case with Doom.
Game devs/mostly publishers really don't deserve money in a lot of cases, if it's the same fucking game with nothing but shit added, and I know they're already making far too high of a profit already, I would feel incredibly bad about giving them extra money, as is the case with Ubisoft
There's no guarantee games actually work on launch anymore. They could just as well be buggy as shit, unoptimized past redemption, or just not be fucking finished, as is the case with Arkham Knight.
And beyond all that, if I don't enjoy a game, I wouldn't want to spend money on it, so it's nice to test it out before purchasing.

I try to fund certain devs. I bought Grey Goo, I might buy Dawn of War 3, I buy small indie titles all the time.

>mental gymnastics
>Being expected to buy a quite expensive product on potentially nothing but goodwill and unrepresentative trailers.
>Not caring about being able to interactively try an interactive product.

If you do this, then it sounds like its you doing the mental gymnastics to justify it.

Not everyone watches hardass reviewers like TotalBiscuit, and I'd wager not everyone even watches reviews for games they want. If the publisher doesn't give enough of a shit to provide a representative gameplay demo if nothing else, then a torrent will have to do.

Hell, even Destiny has a demo. Even Diablo 3 has a demo. And the gameplay there is fairly tight.

Not that guy, but if you get on a ride with limited seats, without paying - you're taking up a seat, meaning that you're also taking away a ticket sale. So in the end you're literally taking their money.

You either do it or you don't. I no longer attempt to justify mine.

I agree.

If you pay for something when you could be getting it for free with no consequence, you are literally, by definition, less intelligent than someone who doesn't.

Same shit. You have to pay to get in and you didn't pay, which is illegal.

each dollar you spend on vidya is a dollar you won't spend on actually useful stuff

like getting a new car, paying bills, food etc.

or at the very least: upgrading your hardware

I have a more important question.
WHO IS GOING TO STOP US?
Keep paying what amounts to a month of groceries in some countries for a game you will stop playing after 3 days and never touch again.
You sheep are hilarious.
The world isn't a fucking happy playland where things are fair because you want them to be. If people can get something for free, they will. And until someone starts shelling out billions of dollars (wchi they wont) to protect a company from losing a couple million dollars (they won't) there is literally nothing you can fucking do about it.
So shut the fuck up.

The only sense that it's the "same" is in that they are both illegal. Words have definitions, that's why we use them. That's why if I were to say murder were pirating as well because you "took a life" I'd be wrong.

you're not going to get bait-and-switched in 2016 though
game review scores when aggregated are generally accurate

>If the publisher doesn't give enough of a shit to provide a representative gameplay demo if nothing else, then a torrent will have to do.
read this back to yourself and think about the word "entitlement"

If you already purchased it, it isn't piracy at that point.

>If you take something that is sold without paying for it, then it's considered stealing.

Even if we bend the English language enough for the word "steal" to include "not paying for something that illegitimately exists for free", what exactly is your point?

Why do you assume that "stealing" is morally wrong by default? You seem like a naive 12yo thinking morality is black and white, and this world is build on transcended, absolutely moral rules.

>Even if you can try justifying it, it doesn't change the fact that you stole the game.

This sentence makes no sense. Do you know the meanings of the words you use? If a theft is JUSTIFIED, sure it remains a theft, but the moral weight of the term changes completely.

Even legally, the context of a theft may completely change the outcome.

We're talking about whether piracy is right or wrong, not on what degree. I myself do not believe that piracy is wrong but it is wrong in today's society.

>getting a new car
>useful
A car is like a phone. If it's functional - it's good enough, everything above that is luxury and therefore no better than spending money on videogames.

so rapists and thieves are geniuses who 'beat the system' eh

>(they won't)
what is denuvo

also
>white male with free time reminds the thread "The world isn't a fucking happy playland"
lmao

>so rapists and thieves are geniuses who 'beat the system' eh
If they get away with it in a clever manner then...sure? If you're grasping at straws to make an analogy at least make one that proves your point.

A new car is definitely a waste of money, sure, but no matter what your vehicle is, you'll need some spare cash laying around for repairs and maintenance. Saving $60 every time you pirate a game adds up pretty quick.

There are degrees of everything. It's hard to fault a starving person for stealing an apple, and before I hear
>comparing pirate shitters to starving people
It's simply an example that there is a spectrum for every instance of human behavior.

>I myself do not believe that piracy is wrong but it is wrong in today's society.
Well thanks for the pointless irresolvable statement alien jim. Feel free to contribute an opinion if you think of one.

>Why do you assume that "stealing" is morally wrong by default
Because it's not yours
PC gamers in the basement are not perched on some intense ethical dilemma
This can't get simpler

>white male
Ok bud time for you to go

>there is a spectrum for every instance of human behavior
yes clearly can you guess based on your post which spectrum you're on?

Sounds like some typical nanny state shit. "Someone could totally die we better keep everyone locked up."

I remember when I got footsie (that game like tag but you had to kick their feet) banned in my primary school because I kicked some poof's foot once and he cried so they banned it altogether forever.

>game review scores when aggregated are generally accurate
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

>If you take something that is sold without paying for it, then it's considered stealing.
what about F2P games?
what about games that are no longer being sold ie Abandonware?

That is a really mean thing to say.

Are there people seriously against piracy on here?
What happen to Sup Forums being against moralfags?

>Entitlement
They aren't giving it to me. I'm a potentially paying customer whom they could persuade to brand loyalty. It's their job to make and sell me something I want. I'll be as entitled as I want because it's my money, which I earned, on the line otherwise.

>Because it's not yours
Explain how this means it's morally wrong. Go on, I'll wait.

Exactly this. Someone should have /threaded right here but they didn't so oh well. It's unethical but I'm an average guy with an average job and it's just way too easy to pirate shit for me NOT to do it. I really don't mean to sound edgy here but I do a lot of things that I shouldn't because I can. I'm just not all that ethical when I'm not afraid of being caught, to be honest with you family.

i only do emulators for snes, genesis etc.. and in a lot of cases i had the game i am emulating back in the day

that being said i dont care what you guys pirate

Woops, sorry,

was meant to respond to:

Pirating on "moral/consumer" grounds -- such as disagreeing with the developer or publisher on something -- strikes me as petty and pointless.

It's also self-defeating. Most content producers don't think, "This person is pirating my works because he disagrees with me. What can I do to turn his opinion around." They tend to do one or more of three things, many times fucking with people who legitimately bought their product as collateral damage.

(1) They introduce intrusive security measures in an attempt to force people to pay for their product.

(2) If the product sells enough regardless, they'll write off the pirates as lost revenue and pander to the people who did buy their product, further alienating the pirates and causing a vicious cycle.

(3) If the content producer is small-minded enough, they outright stop producing the content as a punitive measure.

>If you take something that is sold without paying for it, then it's considered stealing.
I take a Snickers bar and replace it with an identical Snickers bar. Have I taken something - sure. Have I STOLEN something - no. Because stealing is "taking something without the intent of returning it".

>inb4 food analogy

No one is against piracy, we're just tired of the "it's okay when..." bullshit. Piracy should be assumed and not jusified.

>Denuvo is uncrackable!!!
>Already on V3
Piracy always wins

>Denuvo
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I'm laughing that you think a full-proof DRM is or ever will be extant.
>White male.
OOOooooOOOOoooo you really got me there.
You are a fucking imbecile you know that? Thinking you know anything about any poster here is beyond retarded.

Intense levels of ironic false flag baiting either going full circle or working as intended.

It got overrun with normies once Sup Forums and Sup Forums started making news.

yeah, i agree with you. not to mention the fact that pretty much everything you purchase has very valid reasons to dislike the company on moral/consumer grounds.

it is a silly way to rationalize piracy, if you are going to pirate something just say that you did not want to pay for it.

Agreed. It's okay to admit you do some unethical shit, just don't be a faggot and try to act like your shit doesn't stink while you're doing it.

In this case the "write off the pirates as lost revenue" thing doesn't really work.

If they are pirating a game out of spite for a developer, then they were certainly never going to buy it. Furthermore, they probably never even intended to play it. Literally nothing is lost in that situation.

Where is the "it's wrong but I don't care and do it anyway" option?

At least a few of us have already said that.

>strawpoll.me/10487096
Why are there more votes for Piracy as a trial when there *is* a demo, compared to when there isn't?

That's basically all I use it for. If there is a demo, what is the point?

Don't really have a line. I pirate games and if they're good I buy them and promote them.
Some people don't believe any pirates actually buy but it doesn't matter what they believe.

I pirate because I spend too much money on vidya because I love it too much. Piracy is the only way I can quench my thirst and lets me give my money to the ones that actually deserve it.

Where's the pirating for the sole purpose of deducting $60 directly from Tod Howard's personal bank account option?