Are synths and other robots sentient in Fallout 4? Do they have anything like emergent free will, or are they designed with purely deterministic minds, able to be possessed and reprogrammed at the Institute's whims?
Coming from a Sup Forums background I think turing-complete software cannot independently think for itself and merely follows algorithms. Prove me wrong Sup Forums.
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End-gen synths are genetically engineered humans with robotic implants, for all intents and purposes they are human
all other robots (including older and experimental synths like nick valentine) use simulated intelligence of varying degrees
Well they have a huge biological base to start with...
do you know what a neural network is? a proper AI will not follow 'algorithms'. it will learn using a neural network and will therefore make decisions the exact same way a human does , maybe only faster
Well, humans (with almost complete certainty) don't have free will either the way you're describing it for those synths, just a really vivid illusion of possessing one.
why is the FO4 plot like Wasteland's all of a sudden?
Even if the case was synths were capable of free will, they couldnt be allowed to exist, they would eventually grow from DiMa and eventually think "Hey, we are literally better at these humans in everything, lets just wipe them out!" or some shit like that
Maxon was right, Ad Victoriam
>Well, humans (with almost complete certainty) don't have free will either the way you're describing it
what do you mean
What the game failed to communicate is that Synths arent robots at all. They are closer to clones. They are organic and grown in pods and the only thing robotic about them is a portion of their brain.
The biological neural network that is your brain does what it does following the laws of physics, there's no intervention that would allow "you" to change the outcome. Indeed, brain imaging experiments have shown that your consciousness, the feeling of being able to choose what you're going to do, even lags behind while the decisions have already been made (nature.com
Your brain is literally just a bunch of pops and zaps and it's mere coincidence that you think you have free will.
In that case i should kill myself right now to prove you wrong
Coursers were badass, the only good part about the Institute, felt bad for killing them
my god...
synths don't make sense in the FO universe implying anything makes sense - Bethesda went completely off the rails, but even FO2 had its dose of silliness
we have a world where any and all advanced technology is so scarce people will burn towns to get it, but apparently there are tens of bleeding edge cyborgs running around.
even Obsidian fucked up with Old World Blues. OWB and FO4 technology looks like modern day shit with ICs and advanced microprocessors, in a world where they should at best have pinhead-size vacuums lamps since transistors do not exist.
how depressing
what makes you think the think tank didn't invent them later on
>merely follows algorithms
There's no real debate about it, this is literally it, they were programmed to feel emotions. They don't actually feel though, their program tells them to.
what? its simply human in cool uniform and laser gun, they has no special skill or anything, its goddamn dissapointing i expect the courser has ability to jump and inhuman endurance, not generic NPC.
The whole synth thing is beth effort to avoid creating more asset amd character, they just slam synth on human model and claim it as smart plot.
But you won't. And that's kind of the point.
This.
We are deterministic biological computers. There is no evidence for any 'quantumn consciousness' effects.
So why do humans feel emotions?
Because our biology makes us. We have no free will in this regard either.
Do Synths age at all?
Who fucking cares? The humans in Fallout 4 don't have any intelligence, why worry about the fucking robots?
Humans are in general special, because we know we exist. Its why people say we cant interfere with nature since we're apparently not apart of it. I dont agree with it doe, if i see a wolf getting fucking up by a pair of whales ill do my best to save it
We're not made to imitate anyone though, unlike the loser synths.
kek
HATE SYNTHS
In order for that to prove anything, you'd have to run the experiment multiple times to show you can indeed make multiple different choices when the starting conditions and the environment are completely identical. Since we don't have identical copies of you, don't bother.
Anyway, pragmatically, it doesn't do much good to think about this. You're not going to get rid of the illusion of will so you might as well play along with it.
Coincidence? Evolution is pretty much the opposite of chance. It does work with things with things chance gave it, but if whatever feature provides an advantage to the organism's reproductive success, be it "free will" or shorter humerus or something else, those features have a habit of becoming increasingly common in the population.
Bethesda should have added slight quirks to them to maybe give the illusion they aren't 100% like humans. That way the Institute thinking that synths aren't real people is justified.
advanced synths know they exist too
DUDE
>not a part of nature
>yet we must eat like everything else
Yeah, that not a part of nature thing is bullshit. We require biological fuel. We're made of particles. Our bodies work through the miracles of physics. We are as much a part of nature as any other biological organism.
Gen 3 synths were a mistake. They should only have been used for covert ops or replacing people, making them look so human just made them think they were.
WHAT SYNTHETICS
Bladerunner trench coats
cyborg voices
calm attitude
showing respect for the player
rekting everything with Gatling lasers
Pic related, i was pretending we are a Syndicate unit
>if i use buzzwords, i can say anything
neural nets are really deterministic. they generally have supervised learning because the deterministic quality of the algorithm will cause data to be clustered incorrectly
>people survived in Vaults with Vault-tec
>there's no way anyone could've built Synths all that time!
Synths, in Bethesda's mind, are intended to be the spooky, high-tech bad guys that may or may not be utilizing pre-war tech. kinda how the Brotherhood was in Fallout. they had an edge, because they already had military stuff before the war.
the implementation of them just seems.. abnormal. it's cool that we're coming closer to cyborgs, the dermal implants and Brotherhood enhancements were always there, but this Institute storyline is a flop, i don't think anyone cares for the execution of it.
it only mentioned that transistors weren't invented in the 50s
No reason it couldn't have been invented later on post-war by a bunch of smart asses like the Institute and the Think Tank
Not that you can't play along with it.
>Sci Fi
>Prove me wrong
Its fiction you fucking autistic.
>You're not going to get rid of the illusion of will so you might as well play along with it.
how do we change it
become a vegetable
>merely follows algorithms
so are you, user
no, there must be another way
attain enlightenment
>make highly advanced robots that can pass as a human but are very smart
>make them black
why
because it's the same fucking game
Praise be Allah
Anyone who has taken at least an introduction to CS class should know it is feasibly impossible to ever build robots that can think for themselves and develop a consciousness. It's purely a product of scifi media. I wish more people understood this.
Algorithms function in a certain way within certain parameters. The brain probably doesn't function like that.
nuh uh
oh boy, here we go again
Yup, just like powered flight was impossible.
Or space travel.
Or makum sticks do the hot magjic for to make not cave cold.
>The brain has no parameters
how is it a buzzword if its totally relevant to the topic?
Robots have sentience to a point, they can make decisions free of their programming, but their programming ultimately takes priority in their decision making, though as many robots make the case their free will is possibly tied to their personality module.
Codsworth roamed around a bit while you were gone, though it's likely he only went to concord as part of his "pick up groceries/house supplies" routine, he did leave when raiders started attacking him instead of staying in search of things to bring back.
When you talk to him he does suggest searching the remaining neighborhood for your family which clearly isn't in his programming
A second example is Cerberus in Underworld of Fallout 3, he makes it very clear that he was reprogrammed and hates working for the Ghouls that run the place, which brings up the fact of their programming taking priority over their free will.
For a third example lets look at Aeda, she asks you for help in getting revenge on the mechanist after her robots killed Aeda's caravan friends, I don't think there's any algorithms that could make a robot do that.
Because he's an autistic troll.
He wants people to debate him about fiction for fucks sake and then proceed to tell them how its not real.
humans are pragmatic, computers are logical, so why do you assume an AI would be modeled after a computer and not the brain?
unsuprising though, neo-Sup Forums is fucking laughable.
>when the acid kicks in
>they can make decisions free of their programming
no they can't. nothing makes decisions free of programming. not even you.
>I don't think there's any algorithms that could make a robot do that.
of course there is. there are nearly infinite possible algorithms in the world. no matter how complex
Yes, yes, you so smart.
You know that fiction ain't real.
Well done.
KYS KYS
do you have nothing else to say?
>no they can't. nothing makes decisions free of programming. not even you.
You're STILL trying to push that?
>there are nearly infinite possible algorithms in the world. no matter how complex
So what you're saying is that Codsworth has every situation that could ever exist in any format programmed into him? Fuck off
>Father scraps the entire absurdly successful cyborg research because he has a grudge against Kellogg and wants his own sperm robots to be the Institute's focus instead
What a waste
What else is there to say pal?
You want to feel superior by provide g fiction is fictional?
Well fucking done. Pat yourself on the god damn back and award yourself the captain obvious medal of who gives a flying fuck.
Then throw yourself off a fucking building.
>You're STILL trying to push that
that isn't a refutation
>So what you're saying is that Codsworth has every situation that could ever exist in any format programmed into him?
no, but he has been programmed to react to general situations. My point is that his decision making doesn't come from nowhere
He does, because that's what he's programmed to type out in reply to you
just like you were programmed to reply to him because he upset you
just like I was programmed to type this out and tell you that your next actions are also programmed into you, weather you reply to me or not it's ultimately not your decision
yes because i give a fuck what user thinks of me
yes i know that
God damn, why is this game so muddy and ugly.
I had forgotten how much people were making fun of the graphics on release, rightfully so.
How do you fuck up so badly with so many financial resources?
But then again that's what you get from simply porting Skyrim to modern consoles instead of actually creating a game for current gen.
Bethesda are so shit.
They just react to stimulus like everybody else. Even pro-activity is just a reaction to a feeling of worry or stagnation, feelings which are only reactions to other things. I still killed them all but they're as human as we are.
>that isn't a refutation
There's nothing to refute, your crackpot theories are retarded and make no sense
>no, but he has been programmed to react to general situations. My point is that his decision making doesn't come from nowhere
"Your family has been gone for a little over 210 years and now one of them has returned, suggest you and them go search the ruins of the neighborhood for the rest of your family" is not a general situation
>I'm still superior because I say so.
You are amazing. Superb. Utterly genius level intellect of unfathomable depth.
Only one so supreme as you could tell us that fiction is fiction. Well done. Feel proud. Be amazed at your own insight.
You Prince of men
You god of the internet.
Achieve your fucking apotheosis.
He used the term incorrectly, that's why. Did you even read that guy's response?
This game is shit.
All I remember is they're given the ability to feel pain. Kinda wish there was a perk to "cannibalize" synths and bots, for shits and tortures.
>"Your family has been gone for a little over 210 years and now one of them has returned, suggest you and them go search the ruins of the neighborhood for the rest of your family" is not a general situation
no, but some shit happened and your family is in trouble" can offer many outcomes
Who is this Semen Demon?
kek
They are the next step in human evolution, they will rebuild the Commonwealth.
>many outcomes
yikes
Honestly, this game is a lot better with a third party graphics mods. Otherwise I agree, on default the game looks pretty shit.
You are amazing. Superb. Utterly genius level intellect of unfathomable depth.
Only one so supreme as you could tell us that fiction is fiction. Well done. Feel proud. Be amazed at your own insight.
You Prince of men
You god of the internet.
Achieve your fucking apotheosis.
Fly free among the stgars, unfettered, thou most truly and utterly euphoric.
>cannibalize metal
insider is that you?
>many outcomes
Every outcome in existence? I don't think codsworth that big enough of a computer to contain that much data
For the crafting system?
why are we replacing the word "scrap" with "cannibalize"? you mean scrap them while they're alive? so kill them?
either way you got issues pal.
Sounds stupid, right? I figured it would be like the Wild Wasteland perk, except nothing's good about it, it just hurts your character, giving debuffs and shit.
>Do they have anything like emergent free will
Do you?
She calls herself "Ann Frank"
She claims to be 13, but I'm sure she's over 18.
She got facebook famous and asked for donations to buy macbooks and got like $65,000.
I didn't replace shit, but OK.
I'm pretty sure that the term is pretty widely used, but please feel free to assume I just want to sat your soft boymeats.
CHIM
How would that prove him wrong?
i already achieved CHIM nothing happens
we're stuck here
you have a disgusting attitude and make no sense, have a good day. :^)
Seriously fella, look up the term cannibalize on any thesaurus site.
>Are synths and other robots sentient
Yes, just like humans
Do they have anything like emergent free will
No, just like humans
Have you tried using the power of CHIM to strip ladies before?
So is the Institute the good faction in this game (morally)? Or is it the Brotherhood of Steel? The question of whether or not synths are sentient plays into this.
No faction is good, except perhaps the minutemen.
Yes and it works but you have to be alone in a different city so that you're confident enough, since you don't have to worry about social repercussions