So I just beat the original Zelda for the first time, and I gotta say, how the fuck can anyone call this a good game...

So I just beat the original Zelda for the first time, and I gotta say, how the fuck can anyone call this a good game? Even for it's time there's design choices that only an autist would come up with. To progress in a lot of the dungeons you have to bomb the walls to reveal another path, but there's no clue or indication to where these passageways are. So you just have to fucking waste your bombs on every single possible wall, grind for more bombs, then keep trying more possible walls, grind more bombs and hope you eventually find the right hole. Defend this nostalgiafags.

And the final boss fight with Ganon is completely fucking retarded. It's literally 100% luck based. He spawns around the room at complete random and is invisible. You cant predict where he'll spawn next and I repeat, is invisible, you literally have to swing your sword around blindly hoping you'll strike him. Seriously, defend this, I fucking challenge you to defend this.

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polygon.com/e3/2016/6/16/11951678/legend-of-zelda-breath-the-wild-skyward-sword-e3-2016-wii-u-nintendo
twitter.com/AnonBabble

You're right. It's complete shit. It should've been the last Zelda game made.

You can't understand this game if you didn't play it when it came out. The real adventure was figuring out with a little help of your friends where the secret passages were, drawing maps and everything

>you'll never ever experience that

;_;

>instead you get to experience that with the new one

Shut up fag. From what little Zelda sequels I've experienced the proceeding games are bretty damn good, but this original game can only be enjoyed by a blinded moronic nostalgiafag.

So you're saying bombing every single wall, grinding 20 minutes for 8 bombs, bombing more walls, grinding 20 minutes for 8 bombs, bombing more walls was fun? Kill yourself.

Your autist friend would do it for you

(implying you had friends)

Best Zelda

That's why Nintendo is coming back to it with the new game.

It was literally the dark souls of its time. That was the appeal and the love for it.

literally literally literally

>kill room full of enemies
>bombs drop
>bomb walls before picking them up and find a secret path
>pick up bombs to get back to max capacity before leaving
How hard is that?
Also, look at your map and figure out where bomb-able walls are most likely to be.

Tell me one dungeon in LoZ that couldn't be found by NPC hints or the included manual.

from software made a remake and its pretty good, like 6/10.

Because games had to be a lot longer back in the day as kinds usually owned very little games in comparison to then.

To make games last longer they did stuff like that so the game would be (artificially) longer. It's a product of it's time, it's not meant to be held up to today's standards.

Not either of those guys but you talk like an edgy teenager. No need to be so abrasive.

If you weren't enjoying searching for the right wall to bomb, why not look it up? So that you could protect your "hardcore gamer" ego? If you don't find that element fun there are guides that will tell you exactly where you need to bomb the wall.

Lost of games were made that way back in the day to prolong playtime. Go back and try out the old metroid games and you'll find the same thing. Some people really enjoyed this. It meant that you needed to really explore every nook and cranny and talk with your friends about it. Personally, I never really liked the "where the fuck do I go" style of gameplay, but I can understand why other people did.

I don't know which souls game required you to bomb walls to figure out where to go next... I always thought it was fucking obvious where you need to go except in maybe DS1 where it wasn't clear how to get to the Capra Demon.

Level 7 and 8 both had walls you had to destroy to progress with zero clues.

A lot of the walls you could bomb were easy to figure out by looking at the map. If there was a connected room on the map, try using a bomb.

That's what the guide is for. You either work it out with your friends (who were either psychic or were hiding their guide to show off ) or you used the guide where necessary and used your skills for the rest.
I don't like playing that Zelda anymore, but I enjoy playing Zelda II so whatever.

Piggy backing on this, Nintendo had pay-per-minute help lines that were actually far more popular than you'd think. My older brother got busted on the reg for calling them

It was cryptic shit like this that caused the crash of '83. Everyone got sick of this shit so stopped playing. I'm surprised zelda didn't bomb, it was like a relic when it was released too. Classic case of half decent graphics meming success. Nes was meant to be the start of the end of cryptic shit like zelda has, yet it's one of it's most famous games. Ironic.

...

>yes you will never be able to truly and honestly connect with people who only know a world with the internet
I remember a time where the coolest kids had pagers.
I remember a time when you could roam the neighborhood freely as long as you started heading home when the streetlights came on.
I remember a time when the thrill of discovery was meaningful and exciting.
The world before 2001 was not just a different place, it was a different universe.

Do completely invisible paths sitting over instant death pits count?
And don't bring up that the dev's put a message sigil floating in the middle of one. It's still a bad design and you know it.

Oh sorry, I forgot about 3d DGH and assumed you were making some smart ass remark about one of the souls games (because someone had made a souls comparison earlier in the thread). My bad.

Games back then were intentionally made with dumb design choices and artificial difficulty to make them last longer.

I might be one of the only people on earth who liked Crystal caves.

There were snow flakes that were falling from the air that land on the invisible pillars. I really don't understand why anyone thinks that the area is cheap or hard or whatever.

I feel the same about Ocarina of Time these Zelda games have aged like shit and are casual to boot.

I recently played it for the first time as well and it's nowhere that tedious, you're just a moron

The first good Zeruda was LA.

>and are casual to boot
How to spot a tryhard child.

>there are people on Sup Forums RIGHT NOW who have always had high-speed internet in their life
>they will never understand what life was like before computers were common in every home

In one of the dungeons you have to bomb walls before you can reach the map.

Well what I described is exactly what you have to do unless you used a guide.

It came out in 1986, it's quite good compared to many other games at the time. Some people like the open endedness and mystery of random discoveries. Though doing it methodically can be extremely tedious without a guide. It entertained people back when there was no internet and that was your game for the year

>implying the bombable walls weren't blatantly obvious

>use context clues
>find wide, uncluttered spot in wall
>usually lead by a "dead end"
>bomb the center

its not that hard
fucking context clues

This, action-adventure games like this in the NES days were something you and your friends would spend an eternity on, every little tip you could find on a mag or something was valuable. Zelda was far from the only game like this.

Selling guides was kind of the point.

There were no context clues in the first Zelda, every secret passage looked like any other wall with nothing around it

So how'd you like the 2nd Quest?

So you concede I'm completely correct? Thanks.

It was a different time. You kids wouldn't understand.

Think he meant with the map. And the pattern was that it was always the center of a side of the wall, so there was at most 3 possibilities.

The over world is completely random, but don't think any progression critical items are hidden like that

do what we did when we played it and draw your own map, bitch

>t. 21 year old

The 8th dungeon is hidden under a tree you need to burn down, but it's the most obvious burnable tree in the whole game. It's practically screaming "burn me down".

Not to mention the 7th dungeon gives you the ability to use the candle an infinite number of times on the same screen so you have an incentive to spam the fire as much as you like.

The overworld I have no problem with. Every mandatory item is hinted at as well as the locations of the dungeons. The final boss and bombing of the walls within the dungeons is what I have a problem with.

I notice no one has tried to defend the final boss fight either.

seems pretty obvious to me
the blocks funnel you in and the doors are asymmetrical

I get that they're not all like this
As cheesy as it sounds, you just have to feel for the ebb and flow of the dungeon.

>It seems like there should be more going on over here
>this room ends so abruptly
>its force feeding me bombs

I remember overworld bombing was mad easy.
Stuff would funnel you into a spot.
You would run into a suspiciously vacant area.
The wall would have an obvious misshapen section.

Didn't the 2nd Quest overworld have a bomb spot where you had to use the ladder to stand on one specific spot over a four screen long river with no other landmarks?
While rocks were falling on you.

So is anyone at all going to attempt to defend the final boss?

2nd quest was basically a "hard mode" though.

I did all dungeons except 9 without a guide. Just looking at the map will usually give you enough information which of the 3 sides you need to blow up. Sometimes they even hint at it with block placement and obvious dead ends. You're just spoiled by the handholding

Because it was made in 1986 you fucking retard. Of course it's going to be dated compared to later games. It's still a classic and an incredibly important game, so that's why people respect it.

>1990
>People have fun completing Zelda using maps, instructionbooklet, nintendo power etc

>20XX
>Everything is a google search away in pdf fornat
>People try to play through Zelda blind

Zelda is a game you can play wrong. Why didnt you use your smart phone for something useful for once

C'mon, OP, give me more than two complaints to work with, here.

>need to grind for bombs and bomb every wall
Nigga, you barely need bombs for most of the game. And they usually give you the map so that you aren't going in blind. Dungeons also give you a fuck ton of bombs for clearing rooms and shit.
It's also obvious that you haven't actually played most of the game because you don't know that you can upgrade your bomb bag.

>Ganon fight is retarded
I agree, but it's not completely random like you say. His fireballs tell you where he is, and he moves around in a circular pattern around the room(though he switches from clockwise to counter-clockwise).

If you're going to complain about anything it should be grumble grumble or figuring out that you can burn bushes.

So have you tried playing any of LoZ's contemporaries to see how they compare, like pic related?

Lots of good posts ITT, but pretty much this.

I know OP is specifically complaining about dungeons and Ganon, but you should have at least been referencing stuff like pic related

And this

Surprise. most old games are just oldfags blinded by nostalgia.
I played most loved games from nes all the way to n64 and deamcast and they always are overrated.

For example, super metoroid? Completely broken and outdated, doesn't even hold up compared to zero mission or fusion.

Ocarina of time? Outdated and overrated, majoras mask was better and more compact.

Castlevania? Only good one was 4, the old ones are too stiff and slow, while the older ones like sotn are grindy and require collecting items just to progress on the other side of the castle, very annoying.

Let's not even mention games like crash , spyro, turn based rpgs (outdated as fuck) , megaman games (X was good) , doom1-3, sonic, and other games.

TLDR: it's just nostalgia clouding the oldfags opinions on old games, they weren't special, pretty much the same games we have today.

And there's also plenty of maps like this if you really need to be walked through the game.

Low-effort b8 m8

>Castlevania? Only good one was 4, the old ones are too stiff and slow
This is bait.

This is just beautiful, I really miss when manuals had cool shit like maps and hints.

>you have to waste bombs
That's called 'exploration'. There's also a guy in level 7 that gives you more bombs. And you get a plethora of them from killing enemies. There's literally no complaint you should be making except in level 9. And even then, the problem is more about the level design, not the bomb locations. You can get through all of level 9 and only bomb 3 walls. 2 more bomb spots if you want the red ring.

>wah the last fight with ganon is luck!
He has a perfectly predictable pattern AND you can just stab at where you see the fireballs appearing. AND it only takes 3 stabs before he turns red. Its honestly harder finding the silver arrow than fighting Ganon.

Perhaps you just aren't cut out for older games. I would suggest you don't try something like Dragon Quest I or II as they will make you cry.

There isn't any defense. Anyone that calls Zelda 1 or 2 a good game is delusional.

Good concept, yes.
Good game, no.

To add onto that, I remember the dawn of internet and AOL and Dial Up. I remember my parents buying me my first PC back in 1999. They were completely computer illiterate and I was about 10. Google wasn't really big or well known yet. I learned how to use a computer all on my own by messing around with it in my room. Even learned how to use DOS and simple batch scripts.

I remember the time before internet, the transitional period, and the post internet world, all before I turned 18. I also remember the time before cell phones, the rise and fall of flip phones, and the invention of Smart Phones as I graduated High School and the first Iphones started coming out.

Goddamn shit changed so much between 1990 and 2009. Shit is incredible.

Play those games again old man and you'll realize your oh so prescious castlevania doesn't hold up one bit.

Shit taste and/or bait

You're right about Metroid and Ocarina though

>Even for it's time
how the fuck can you know that?
you werent even fucking born in 85

Castlevania 4 is one of the worst mate. Get some taste.

2nd quest was dark souls

>nostalgia

I played it for the first time last month and I loved it, only guide I used was looking up the manual online. The game gives you hints on EVERYTHING. Bomb walls can usually be figured out by looking at the damn map.

>For example, super metoroid? Completely broken and outdated, doesn't even hold up compared to zero mission or fusion.
kys

Well duh

It's a little different back then because you never got every single thing in the game spelled out for you, and you never knew what you were going to get. Besides it's not like the game itself isn't filled to the brim with hints.

Castlevania IV is probably the worst of the lot of Classicvanias, Rondo of Blood, Chronicles and Bloodlines are the best.

Floaty controls

The stupid ass tube you have to blow up and you literally have to use a guide for this

The back tracking

The boss battles were whatever.

Super is overrated. Especially when Zero and Fusion fix everything wrong with it.

There is no adventure when games hold your hand and, if that's not enough, you can look up anything you can't figure out on the internet.

>If you're going to complain about anything it should be grumble grumble or figuring out that you can burn bushes.
Grumble grumble was obvious as fuck.

Nice to see some classic bait here.

Am I stupid, or is the only way to "activate" statues to walk into them and take a hit? Because thats the only thing that seems to happen to me

It's just you're nostalgia talking. 4 introduced 8 way whip mechanic and it single handedly fixed all the shit from the old ones. The nice graphics and levels also helped. Chronicles was the next best one, the others, overrated.

Don't touch them from their front.

>fixed all the shit from the old ones

Only retards didn't think to break the tube.

Theres empty space above/below it.
The map show you you can go up or down
Theres a freaking broken tube a few rooms away.

Herpderp.

The new one isn't even out yet, and they've said they understand that handholding is bad.

>I can ruin it for myself so the game is shit
cool

Man, 10 year olds are retarded today.

You need to replay old classicvanias. Really aged badly. No diagonal whip, not able to control your jump, the limited level variety. Really horrible games.

Their idea of what constitutes handholding has changed from what it was in the 80s. They're still going to hold your hand. Just not as tightly.

Actually I was using the big bombs whenever I didn't know what to do because they'd reveal hidden power ups too.

Man super was an amazing game. It's too bad fusion and zero had to be ruined.

The new is anything but holding your hand.
You have an intro cinematic and then off you go, do whatever the fuck you want, it's like dark souls but without being linear

by playing its contemporaries

THIS.

OP is a genuine, certified, imbecile. As is everyone in this thread posting that agrees with him.

Calm down, man.

>not able to control your jump
That's how it's supposed to work actually. Why does every video game character have gravity powers?

polygon.com/e3/2016/6/16/11951678/legend-of-zelda-breath-the-wild-skyward-sword-e3-2016-wii-u-nintendo

If they learned that Skyward Sword was very handholdy, they know what handholding is, and there won't be much, if anything, if it keeps to what they've shown.

I have faith in them.

and yes I know Polygon a shit

8 way whip was the single worst thing they could have done to the franchise

>No diagonal whip, not able to control your jump
Why are those bad? Just because you expect them to be there?

Hard games are only good when they don't introduce artificial difficulty like the old castlevanias.

Hit the walls and they make a different noise instead of wasting bombs and time.

Gannon is the last boss and hes difficult. Dunno what else to say about it... did you want a piss easy boss?

Shit taste. "Newer = better"? While there is a trend that developers learn from their mistakes and make better games, sometimes they try something new and fuck it all up.

>Super Metroid is broken and outdated
How so?

>Super Metroid doesn't even hold up compared to zero mission or fusion
ZM is boring because they tell you where to go all the time. Fusion is incredibly linear, and misses the point entirely. Both are good games, but they feel more like the newer Castlevania games than Metroid.

>MM > OoT
Both are bad, but I agree with you. The combat is boring, the puzzles are either "key on lock" or completely nonsensical, and there's hardly any exploration. Never understood the appeal of 3D Zelda.

>Castlevania? Only good one was 4, the old ones are too stiff and slow
Kek.
Oh no! No 8-directional whip that reaches across the entire screen? This game sucks!
Castlevania 1 and 3 are both great examples of good level design. The devs know that you're locked into your jumps, they know you can't move while whipping, and everything is designed around that. Each move is strategic, you can't just rush through without thinking.

>games like sotn are grindy and require collecting items just to progress on the other side of the castle
Grindy? Elaborate.
Also that's the whole point of a Metroid-style game. You get upgrades that unlock new paths. If the game is designed well, you don't have to travel too far to get to those paths. Haven't played SotN specifically but the DS ones don't have too much backtracking.

>crash, spyro
Haven't played either, but Crash just looks like a standard 3D platformer. What's wrong with it?

>turn based rpgs
Yeah, turn-based combat is usually pretty boring, but I think it's possible to make good turn-based RPGs.

>megaman games(X was good)
What are you even saying here? Both the classic and X series are great.

>doom1-3, sonic
All great games. Also, most Sonic games after Adventure 2 are total shit, which goes against your point.

>Dunno what else to say about it... did you want a piss easy boss?
A want a boss that asks you to test your reflexes and experience in order to beat it, not a boss that randomly teleports around the room WHILE INVISIBLE, forcing you to literally swing your sword around randomly like a retard hoping you get lucky enough to hit him.