TL;DR: SOME STAR CITIZEN RUBE DEMANDED REFUND, ACTUALLY GOT IT BY GOING TO THE DISTRICT ATTOURNEY AND FTC, LAWYERS NOW SMELL BLOOD
>A dissatisfied Star Citizen backer has managed to earn a full refund of $3,000 USD from Cloud Imperium Games, in a struggle dating back to mid-June. The backer, who goes by the name ‘Streetroller’ (their real name has not been shared), successfully received their refunded sum after filing a complaint with the District Attorney of Los Angeles.
>Correspondence between Streetroller and Cloud Imperium Games (CIG), as well as letters between the California DA’s office and CIG’s legal counsel Ortwin Freyermuth, can be read here. They were originally posted on the SomethingAwful forums.
>In the correspondence with CIG, Streetroller contends that he is entitled to a refund because Star Citizen “remains unfulfilled and no longer constitutes the product(s) I originally purchased”. That refund request is swiftly denied, with CIG citing their Terms of Service. Specifically, a passage which states: “For the avoidance of doubt, in consideration of [Roberts Space Industry’s] good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game with the funds raised, you agree that any Pledge amounts applied against the Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not RSI is able to complete and deliver the Game and/or the pledge items.”
>Here’s where things get quite interesting. While that particular passage has been in the ToS since the beginning, Streetroller cites a different passage which potentially contradicts it. The passage Streetroller quotes was altered by CIG back in June. Streetroller says he never agreed to these ‘updated’ ToS.
>That older passage, which can be seen here via ‘Wayback’ internet archiving, stated: “You agree that any unearned portion of your Pledge shall not be refundable until and unless RSI has failed to deliver the relevant pledge items and/or the Game to you within eighteen (18) months after the estimated delivery date.” The original estimated delivery date given on the Star Citizen Kickstarter was November 2014.
>Streetroller also cites a Washington State case from July 2015 in which the Attorney General enforced fines on the Kickstarter project Asylum for failure to deliver to backers. The cases of Asylum and Star Citizen are not identical (Altius Management effectively went missing and stopped all communication with backers). However, the success of the Asylum case implied that crowdfunding backers are covered by the Consumer Protection Act.
>Under that Act, if a consumer (Streetroller) agrees to a specific date of delivery (which would be May 2016 under the original ToS that he signed; eighteen months on from the November 2014 Kickstarter deadline), they are entitled to a refund when products are not delivered.
>CIG disagree with this argument, and reject the refund request for a second time. At this point Streetroller files complaints with the DA of Los Angeles, Federal Trade Commission, and LA Department of Consumer and Business Affairs (DCBA). After that, things start to actually happen.
>Streetroller receives an initial refund of $900 USD through Amazon Payments on 23 June. Then, on 29 June receives three official responses to his complaints. You can see the response to the complaint filed with the District Attorney on the page linked previously. It comes with correspondence from CIG’s Ortwin Freyermuth, who once again disputes Streetroller’s right to a refund on ToS grounds (claiming that “None of the revisions to our ToS have affected [the] complainant’s position”); before eventually agreeing to give him one anyway.
Ryan Fisher
Two days later, on 1 July, Streetroller receives denials for his initial PayPal refund claims. However, on 12 July the rest of the unclaimed money ($1,660) arrives via PayPal refund. That totals $2,560, so either some of the refunds weren’t documented in Streetroller’s post, or they were rounding up to $3,000.
Whether the Star Citizen Terms of Service (either the first set or the revised set) would actually stand up to serious legal scrutiny, particularly when you get down to what constitutes an “earned” or “unearned” (the language used in the older ToS passage) pledge, is an open question while they remain untested. It’s probable (though can’t be stated with absolute certainty – I am not a lawyer) that legislation like the Consumer Protection Act, if applicable, would take precedence. In this instance though, CIG have opted not to push the matter further by simply agreeing to Streetroller’s refund request.
The story doesn’t quite end there, because on 11 July (one day before his PayPal refunds show up) Streetroller was contacted by an investigator from the LA Department of Consumer and Business Affairs. After an hour long discussion about Star Citizen, Streetroller says he was told to encourage others to file complaints against CIG with the DCBA.
Why are these idiots donating so much to these projects? They aren't investors. They're getting nothing back other than the project.
The whole project seems stupid because there's no cap to the funds raised. They should have said first 20-30 mil goes to making game 1. After that, it's Expansions. After that, it's sequels. This keeps the project relatively small, and focused. There's no way that a 117 million dollar game will live up to expectations.
Right now it's the 6th most expensive video game EVER.
When it goes down it's gotta be much better than TORtanic could ever dream to be.
As a kid I played Elite on ZX Spectrum, and when I've heard there's going to be a new Elite game, I knew it was the only worthwhile spacesim revival game.
Samuel Parker
Totally forgot this game was still a thing.
Bentley Davis
>Hi, I'm some guy with some connection to a game you're very nostalgic about. I made that game. Give me millions and I'll make a game just as good!
Why do people keep falling for these scams?
Isaiah Cook
but user, muh vision
Oliver Clark
Iga actually delivering Bloodstained tho
Brayden Morgan
>Right now it's the 6th most expensive video game EVER. Only if you factor in the marketing costs of other games. On pure development costs Star Citizen is the FOURTH most expensive game ever.
Owen Morris
Tim's just shit at resource management, but that doesn't make him a conman.
I think star citizen is going to be the best space sim when it's done but i STILL want to see this kill them because of how annoying this game has been for me since it was funded.
JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT UNTIL ITS DONE
STOP TRYING TO SELL US THE 4000$ "LIMITED EDITION" SHIP THAT WILL NOT ACTUALLY BE LIMITED EDITION YOU FUCKING FAGGOTS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Michael Allen
DF9 never finished Broken Age Aweful and Split Epic Chalice was aweful
I used to love him too user but the time has come to accept he's actually a shithead and it's only been the lash of a publisher holding him in check.
Easton Fisher
>defeat >defeat >defeat >DEFEAT >DEFEAT
Charles Harris
LET THE PEPE'S HIT THE FLOOR LET THE PEPE'S HIT THE FLOOR LET THE PEPE'S HIT THE FLOOR WHOOOAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH
Aaron James
CIG\RSI was not ordered to do anything, the ToS was not challenged. They willingly refunded the guy because hes a prick.
Sorry Goonie.
Julian Walker
Good way of fixing that would be close the campaign once the initial goal is over.
Evan Wilson
Kek Sums it pretty well
Justin Stewart
>tfw no freelancer 2
Grayson Torres
>DF9 >Epic Chalice Honestly, who ever cared about those? Broken Age is an ok adventure, especially considering it's a kickstarter-original game. >holding him in check I agree that he should be held in check. But as I said, that's just because he's not a good businessman. He doesn't just steal people's money and fuck them up on purpose.
Wyatt Young
It does kind of skip over the part in the middle where they go "Okay I think we're definitely funded now" before the community scream "NO MORE STRETCH GOALS DO IT"
Dominic Sanchez
Roberts is a well known fraudster
Christopher Miller
CIG chose to refund him, they were't ordered to. They did the same thing to other troublemakers as well.
Carson Edwards
Is this Derek or Beet_Wagon, I get you buttholes mixed up all the time.
Jackson Hernandez
To be fair it was a pretty petty sum compared to donators of note and Chris's own bank balance. Making stupid drama over it would cost more.
Brody Watson
I paid 30 or 60 bucks. I don't remember how much and I don't fucking care. I just preordered a game that may or may not fulfill my expectations.
Not a big fucking deal.
Connor Brown
Precisely why they kick backers out of the project when they start doing this shit.
Ryan Brooks
>troublemakers
Landon Roberts
>I tried to hold my pledge hostage by threatening Star Citizen with legal action and they refunded me instead!
Rofl get fucked goon
Jason Diaz
>Honestly, who ever cared about those? I did >he's not a good businessman
He's also not a good DEVELOPER. He fucked Brutal Legend too. He's an idea guy who needs to be working in creativity departments. Not a manager, not a producer, not even a director.
If it was Derek he'd be shilling his own game I just saw it on my news site and decided to post it here
>say no twice >get the FTC and DA involved >suddenly give refunds >while simultaneously saying they will give no refunds
Suuureeeeee user-kun.
While they certainly weren't legally compelled to do so, they were compelled to do so by the legal POTENTIAL of the situation.
Jaxson Fisher
>It's okay that DF9 was terrible because no one cared Are you fucking having a giggle on Sup Forums?
Adrian Jackson
>He doesn't just steal people's money and fuck them up on purpose. Uh, have you seen how fig is set up?
>it took him three months to put a garbage sketch together
Sounds about right, except the players are screaming "WHERE IS MY PLAYABLE GAME?!" while the guy sits in his chair masturbating with lube made out of shredded 100$ bills.
Gavin Torres
>payed 250 bucks back in 2012 I think I have the constellation and lifetime insurance on it and tons of other shit. Should i get a refund or would it be worth it to sell my account to some delusional fag on the star citizen reddit? last time I checked an account with the pledge and rewards that i have goes for 500 bucks.
Sebastian Butler
>bloodstained is a bad game meme
keep trying to force it mightyshill
Evan Green
hold onto it then sell it when this shit either pops, or the game actually releases. It can only appreciate in value
Mason Cox
kek.
Andrew Long
>they are still selling DF9 That's even more of an insult
Luis Collins
>get the FTC and DA involved They were absolutely not involved and never have been. Derek Smart was refunded for the EXACT same reason and someone filed a FOIA request for his claims of having an FTC involvement going and it was found there never was any FTC involvement.
Anyone who starts acting like this gets their money back and told to fuck off. These people don't want refunds, they want to hold onto their pledges and make threats over it.
And CIG said refunds will still be handled on a case by case basis but not open to everyone.
Benjamin Reed
(you)
Jayden Parker
If it does sell for 500 bucks, someone is legitimately retarded. Like someone who thinks 2012 money's worth anything today.
Anthony Watson
i think i put in $40 when it was first announced
what have they done so far? is there a release date?
Andrew Collins
BRAVO CIG R A V O
Daniel Perez
>Final Fantasy VII >a 1997 game >is top 4 HOW?
Isaac Cruz
>Sup Forums defended this
Jesus Christ
Justin Gray
Squadron 42 Winter, Star Citizen 2017(doubtful). You can fly around a gas giant, do fps shit, buy clothes and guns, and do EVA shit vs ai or players.
Henry Anderson
>Anyone who starts acting like this gets their money back and told to fuck off. These people don't want refunds, they want to hold onto their pledges and make threats over it. From article it seems like he only wants his money back.
Grayson Carter
>starts acting like this
the guy dsidn't try to hold the game hostage, he legitimately just said "give me a refund" and they said "no"
>didn't get involved and never have been Pic is from the article. It's just a form letter but it shows that a complaint WAS filed and they DID investigate
Jose Perry
No release date but the basic gameplay loop is out, DayZ style. Being ported to Vulkan and gameplay getting slotted on as it's finished. Story mode possibly end of the year.
Camden Hall
>31 recent reviews I don't get why people would buy a game with mostly negative reviews. Like say what you will about the review system but if only 30% of players enjoyed a game then maybe it has some serious fucking issues when average games can hit 80% positive
Blake Rodriguez
Sup Forums has been shitting on it for a long time user.
Josiah Brown
40 million dev costs + 100 million marketing + inflation = 214 million dollars.
What, you thought broadcasting tv ads all over Western tv was cheap? It's the only FF game I can think fo that had tv ads.
Evan Thompson
It cost a lot of money.
Lucas Anderson
Comparing Star Citizen to DayZ is an insult to DayZ and I didn't actually think you could insult DayZ worse than its developers have.
At least DayZ is a game. It's a letdown and will never be the great game we wanted but it is at least fundamentally a game and not a tech demo.
Ethan Perry
This, TV ad's are a huge fucking money hole, and ironically if research is right not even that effective.
Gavin Bell
Nope, hes just another goon doing Derek's work for him. Yes that's the acknowledgement of a complaint. Again no action was taken and no action would have been taken. >DID investigate WRONG, there was nothing confirming an investigation. Plus anyone can file an FOIA request to verify that.
Owen Gonzalez
It also just so happens to be the one FF game that everyone knows.
Jacob Carter
For me they were effective. It was the first time I had heard of Final Fantasy. It looked so cool.
Asher Murphy
>Again no action was taken and no action would have been taken. I've got article source, what do you have?
Thomas Powell
>Nope, hes just another goon doing Derek's work for him. That seems more a conspirancy theory territory to me.
Luke Cox
Show me evidence action was taken and there was an investigation besides green texted words right from the fingers of a Derek Smart cultist.
Jonathan Edwards
I should probably qualify, they're not that effective TODAY. And this is based on political, not commercial research.
Henry Nelson
Derek posts on SA, he got their entire forum shut down for doxxing people who were "bothering" him for a few days, hes since moved to a discord channel with other SA posters who basically wring their hands together all day about their master plan to kill star citizen.
Gavin Collins
pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-backer-earns-3k-refund-contacting-us-district-attorney >on 11 July (one day before his PayPal refunds show up) Streetroller was contacted by an investigator from the LA Department of Consumer and Business Affairs. After an hour long discussion about Star Citizen, Streetroller says he was told to encourage others to file complaints against CIG with the DCBA.
Jackson Cooper
Wait, you mean political ads? Yeah, those aren't very effective. Commercial ads are a different story.
Nicholas Reed
>At least DayZ is a game
That's an insult to games like SS13.
Elijah Anderson
Oh advertising campaigns on television are DEFINITELY effective today.
Clash of the Clans? GTA V? Most CoD games? Skyrim even?
These games don't accidentally move 20 MILLION units. They put heavy investment into advertising and make sure e v e r y o n e knows its there and they must buy it.
Isaiah Hughes
Yep that seems something Jesse Ventura would talk about on his show.
Dominic Morales
Not seeing any actual evidence or formal reply that action has been taken. You do know you receive documentable proof action is being taken on your complaint request right?
Since he didnt post it, he doesnt have it.
I could literally get the same piece of paper filing a complaint that Moot if a faggot.
Jose Stewart
scam shitizen is actually a scam though
Ryan Butler
Hows that? Should we just stop having games if they don't live up to a standard set by a guy on the internet?
I love SS13 and will always love SS13 but its not the only game and honestly what standard can it really set because what can live up to freaking Space Station 13? It's one of the best games ever made.
Dominic Murphy
No it's not
Blake Bell
Nope, its just taking a long fucking time.
Noah Parker
FF7 also came out in the late 90's, well before the ubiquity of the internet or social media.
Frankly i'm convinced that modern tv ad's for 'core' games are mostly ineffective depending on your Genre. Unless you're shooting for cawdooty audience OR casual audience, you're 'core cgamers'. Dudebro's and little sisters, basically. Who admittedly ARE a huge audience.
But for a final fantasy today? huge waste of dollarydoo's.
OK, fair enough. You're probably right, there's a good chance he's a derek smart shitter.
Star Citizen is still a cucktastic scam though.
Grayson Hughes
Breeding Season isn't a scam, it's just taking a long time :^)
Brody Young
I hate you for proliferating the FF7 meme of it being the best.
Kayden Gutierrez
>Star Citizen is still a cucktastic scam though. Im perfectly ok with you thinking this, as long as people dont gargle Derek's cock and all the bullshit he spews from his mouth.
Crowdfunded games should get their chance to either succeed or fail, not have some daddy inheritance nigger harassing them at every turn running a smear campaign.
Liam Wilson
>enter the matrix >2003 >67 million
Wew lad
Jace Rivera
prove that it's not a scam. pro tip: you can't
Robert Allen
...
Juan Reed
It has over 300 people working on it? Sounds like a shit scam where 300 people are getting paid to make a game.
Lincoln Barnes
I don't disagree with you but I do think that television adverts have been replaced with social media and "viral" marketing. It's cheaper and can be extremely effective. Especially for the cost.
Aaron Bell
It's funny because that game was shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
Logan Hernandez
Just saying DayZ has no objective at all, but as far as sandbox MMOs go it's also extremely gimped if it was ever having a chance in the first place. Star Citizen has basically more or less the same with the ability to roam in a massive area and gank people, but also has persistence so when you quit the server and join a different one you keep your progress/status.
SS13 is an example of something that's also quasi-game but I tried to phrase it as such it's superior to DayZ. Honestly, if I had time and know how, I'd be coding for SS13 because it's *THIS* fucking close to being a proper game with a proper game loop in my opinion, but it has too many gaping holes that let RPfags and validhunters destroy the round progression then either autismfort or wipe the slate clean too often to keep anyone interested.
Ian Baker
A Realm Reborn had commercials popping up too. I really want to say 10-2 got them as well.
Jayden Hall
okay now I don't think its a scam but if you think that scams can only be perpetrated by a few people or that every hand has to actively be involved for it to be scammed, then you're an idiot and need to look up pyramid schemes.
Noah Ortiz
>tfw you will never get paid to work on a thing that doesn't exist
It used to be you could only get jobs like this if you worked in technology development for the military or DARPA. Now the Civies are getting in on the act.
Sebastian Morris
then show me the payroll
all i see is $20,000 coffee machines, $50,000 custom doors and a $30,000 couch
Samuel Ross
The Matrix was once thought to be the new Star Wars in terms of how popular it was predicted to be.
Bentley Thomas
Bullshit it was. It might not have been the first game to have bullet time I'm not sure, but it sure as FUCK delivered and was awesome.
Adam Garcia
>They were originally posted on the SomethingAwful forums. Ofcourse.
So the goons are out to try to fuck something up they can't get any power over. I didn't even buy into this shit and I know enough about the goons that they're probably shilling this meme because they lost a forum war in some shithole or couldn't harass some devs into sucking on their cocks.
Give up you tranny loving fucks. You'll never be 2006-core.
Justin Rogers
It was fun. Pretty good CQC, cool hacking minigame. Extra movie scenes (that ate the whole budget). Dunno why are you hating on it so much.
Brayden Rodriguez
It might have actually been if the second and third movies hadn't been a step down. They were good and an acceptable conclusion but they weren't on the same level as the first.
Cooper Harris
>muh goons >muh Derek boogeyman
James Cruz
i got a refund for tim shafers 3 million dollar meme back in the day before it was cool
was only $30 but still
Kikestarter is a piece of shit but sometimes they do deliver.
I enjoyed the crap out of the other games that eventually got finished.
Its just most of the devs are scummy and or turn scummy
Carmageddon Reincarnation Max Damage update for one
