Garrosh did nothing wrong and Thrall is a traitor for changing sides

Garrosh did nothing wrong and Thrall is a traitor for changing sides

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Things garrosh added to the horde:
More spikes

Things garrosh detracted from the horde:
Everything else completely.

Can any of you name anything effective he did while in control, other than growling and alienating the rest of the horde?

Hate Thrall like we all do.
Also put the fucking WAR in Warcraft.

So nothing that helped the horde do anything.

Who cares?

As soon as the developers stop caring about the lore, you should to.

all lore from WoW is not legitimate lore so you are basically trying to debate fake shit the original writers of the warcraft series wasn't involved with.

it's like saying "Gandalf did nothing wrong when he used the artillery strikes to kill Frodo's army in the 12th book in the series because Frodo allied with Gimli's evil twin."

fuckin' gandalf

Why can't we discuss lore from the game though? They were attempting an evolving narrative I don't get why this particular section of fiction is beyond discussion

Because as pointed out, there is no point. Blizzard have retconned so many ideas and produced so many stupid ideas there is no point discussing it, beyond calling them out on each individual stupid point.

The fact you are still keeping track of Warcraft lore confuses and scares me.

Thrall was a piece of shit who dropped the horde to jerk off with the elements, and didn't make sure his replacement was, at the least, fucking stable. He could have put Eitrigg, or convinced Saurfang, but no, let's put the hotheaded son of the guy who fucked orcs up to begin with on the throne
Thrall was a cunt, but Garrosh was a retard for chimping out at everything

They're both shit characters.

I kept track of everything going on during cata that's what I thought we were discussing. Duck you kids are depressing

>Want to talk lore guys?
>No there's no point

Fucking dull

>Also put the fucking WAR in Warcraft
You're the sort of person that ruined Warcraft.

Fine I'll bite.
>Why did Ragnaros and Nefarian suddenly become friends when Deathwing turned up?
>Why did the Gundrak and Gurubashi trolls side with the Zandalari? The latter sent horde and alliance adventurers to kill their leaders.
>Why are Worgen Death Knights a thing?

There, 3 Cataclysm related topics for you to answer.

More than usual that's for sure.

Are you retarded?

Also why did Thrall change his hair?

Reminder that the dragons are now doomed to extinction

Since everyone seems to be coming back from the dead, think we'll ever see Arthas again?
Would Post Theramore!Jaina just straight up kill him if she saw him?

While honestly the lich king was killed off to quickly Arthas's story is over and he should under no circumstance come back, not even as a force ghost

only thing I could accept would be the theory that all of Wotlk was a plot by Nerzhul to get himself a more obedient body while at the same time convincing the world the scourge is no longer a threat

>Garrosh
>Villain of the last two expansions

>Dies in a quest cutscene that rewards you with a blue helmet

so, nostfags, where are those legacy servers? can you live with the fact that you got shafted hard?

Whats wrong with worgen dk?

Turning Garrosh into a villain was an almost criminal misuses of his character. He was much better when he was not actively malicious but merely in over his head and desperately trying to fill the void Thrall left while also remaining true to the orcish heritage
watching him slowly grow into a capable warchief would have been interesting
instead we got essentially "lolcorrupted"

If there must always be a Lich king, why did the Legion even create one in the first place?

Why didn't some of the Scourge leaders stage a coup against Arthas? He leaves Frostmourne unattended after all.

Because their free will was mostly held back, wasn't it? If Anub'arak had more of his will, I have no doubt he would have betrayed Arthas

absolute mental control over the scourge kinda prevented that

that said its why a theory it was all a plot works, "there must always be a lich king" is a whole load of plausible bullshit in order to trick the argent crusade into not destroying the helmet

We thought the same of Illidan, and look at the fucker now. He's a fucking angel

>You're the sort of person that ruined Warcraft.
He made Cataclysm?

>Worgen are immune to the Plague, which is why Arugal summoned then as the perfect warrior to defend Gilnaes.
>This is why in Cataclysm, refugees from Southshore asked to become Worgen to avoid turning into Forsaken soldiers.
>Death Knights under the Scourge are undead champions
>Undead champion, powered by the plague, in the body of something which is apparently immune to it.

Also begs the question why the Lich King felt it necessary to recruit Arugal's ghost in Grizzly Hills. Why would you create an army of wolf men who are literally immune to everything you throw at them?

>>Why did Ragnaros and Nefarian suddenly become friends when Deathwing turned up?
They weren't
>>Why did the Gundrak and Gurubashi trolls side with the Zandalari?
What are you referring to?
>>Why are Worgen Death Knights a thing?
minion of arugal

It's ok me and my wife Ysera are expecting children.

...

>free will
How does this shit even work? You have mass walk outs like the Forsaken and the Ebon Blade, and you have individuals like Arcanus who could seemingly break when ever he wanted.

why is metzen so, so shit

and its still stupid, and it'll still never not be stupid

the forsaken happened when the lich king was severely weakened due to Illidan's magical nuke and couldn't properly keep control over all his minions

>We thought the same of Illidan

Those who were paying attention knew Illidan wasn't dead.

His thought was probably, better I have it than someone else.

He didnt actually alienate the Horde. Every race of the Horde that he "betrayed", betrayed him first.

I dont think it was intentional on blizzards side to do this, but, Garrosh was getting betrayed before he did anything.

Take Vol'Jin for instance who threatened to kill Garrosh before Garrosh had done a single ill thing to the Troll, and then continued on by always being insobordinate.

maybe to try and build a scourge so strong it can infect worgenism.

Wotlk fucked up hard by ignoring nerzhul. the whole xpac should have been the alliance facing arthas and the horde facing nerzhul. they built him to be just like a wc2 DK and didn't go with it.

The other new lore added in wotlk was pretty well done and tasteful though.

Garrosh was a terrible leader but a great story peice. I think he and variyn are good examples of story telling done right. Im gonna miss Voljin, he was very under utilized and should prolly be immune to death.

>They weren't
What the fuck does this mean? Of course they suddenly became allies. The Twilight Hammer and the Dark Iron were on Ragnaros's side, and the Dark Horde and Black Dragonflight on Nefarians. Deathwing turns up, resurrects Nefarian, gives Ragnaros legs, and they suddenly become buddies.
>What are you referring to?
The whole of patch 4.1, and the subsequent stupid shit involving the Zandalari like Throne of Thunder.
See

beacuse voljin is next to velen in power level and is the best seer on azeroth

should have done it desu

Ner'zhul had supposedly been destroyed by Arthas, so of course he was a nonentity

garrosh during cata was (probably by accident) a fairly good character with a lot of subtlety to him
thus blizzard being blizzard couldn't work with it and turned him full on evil

Its somewhat ironic that Vol'Jin's patron diety wants him to become a second (third?) Lich King and that Vol'Jin himself does entrape the souls of those he kills.

He is more a lich king than Sylvaanas.

Ysera is killed in Val'sharah by you after Xavius gives her the nightmare dick

which is the single dumbest possible thing that happened

doubly so because IT HAPPENED IN A BOOK

the Lich King at the end of TFT worked perfectly in that was an entity both human and orc and was set up to be the prime example of what would happen if the 2 great forces of the warcraft universe could truly work together

im still a little salty that worgen aren't from another planet. I dont think anyone would mind seeing Argul again, this lore could use work.

Don't you talk shit.
It's bad enough he survived Warcraft 3, let alone his Black Temple encounter.

So explain the Ebon Blade then? From what I gathered, they just got annoyed when Arthas left them for dead and left.
For what purpose? The Worgen were pretty much dead at this point, and where he decided to use it was already pretty much under his control.

Reminder that blue dragons are present in the broken isles and starving for magic (again) and will likely take the fel dick and become antagonists

I will forever be salty about that. But at least we have Alex, for now

>he thinks we ever killed Illidan
>implying demons die

The Forsaken were mostly former mindless undead scourge, the Ebon Blade were formed by Death Knights who had their own free will and were brainwashed/tortured to serve the Scourge

>Starving for magic
What's stopping them from hauling ass to the Nexus and getting their fix at home

I trust him with that power though. You can command the dead and still be a pretty okay guy. He isn't amassing an army of the dead, is he? Not experimenting like Slyvannis. ( never read his book)

Lich King again was severely weakened during the DK questline and its during that weakness they gained their independence

Of course he didn't die, Maiev would never let her sex toy go

kinda hilarious that Maiev is the only night elf left
rest are purple cheerleaders

Immune to the plague, yes. Not necromancy.

Go look at the piles of bodies being used by the necromancers in Acherus, that's literally where your character was about 5 minutes before you enter the DK intro.

Something about how since they lost their aspect powers by fueling the dragon soul their ability to feed off leylines diminished/their ability to sustain their hunger diminished

So are they more dangerous or what?
I would have thought during that brief 2 or 3 minutes before Bolvar put on the helmet, huge parts of the Scourge would have left, and yet apparently without a Lich King they are more powerful.

Does this make the Forsaken/Ebon Blade/Anyone else who breaks free more powerful than the Scourge?

So, instead, they are going to go full Blood Elf, and get their fix off Fel magic. Fucking wonderful, everything is coming full circle

They haven't gone full blood elf yet, but considering the Nightborne pretty much have the same storyline as the blood elves, and the blue dragons parallel them on the Broken Isles to the point where they're being fed on by nightborne wretched, it's likely.

what does not kill me makes me stronger------megatron

Ebon Blade were elite soldiers that retained a portion of their free will at all times
Lich King during the TFT campaign was weakened for a significant period of time

that said the whole bolvar, helmet thing is idiotic and filled with plotholes anyways

Allies is not the same as friends
They both just worked towards the same end goal

>>The whole of patch 4.1, and the subsequent stupid shit involving the Zandalari like Throne of Thunder.
Zandalar got pretty much completely destroyed during the cataclysm, which led to the prophet Zul taking a bunch of trolls and leaving the island and contacting the Gurubashi trolls.
Basically the Zandalari trolls wants to recreate the troll empire and therefor tried to unite all the tribes
The Zandalari were allied to the Mogu back in the days which explains the ToT storyline

Worgens arent immune to being raised as undead, they were just immune to the plauge

>one mutation later
well of eternity is one hell of a drug

How does this explain anything? Were you resurrected in your wolf form or as a human?

Isn't Scourge based necromancy powered by the plague?

Also, what's the point of the Worgen then as invincible immune warriors if they can be resurrected regardless?

WE

>reverse image search gives me pictures of spider man

Magic.

He was right until he started his bullshit about the horde and true orcs and stick with old god stuff. But the other horde leader didn't really helped him and were bitching at each decision he made.Everything was against him but doesn't mean that he was right.

Thrall was literally a retard in the Cata pre-event. His choice to left the horde and come back then was even worse.

It's personalami

I'm not counting MoP lore here so don't bring Mogu shit into it.

The point is that the Drakkari trolls and Gurubashi trolls would not have joined up. The Zandalari, before their island "sunk", sent people to murder their leaders and their gods. Even in the patch 4.1 trailer they talk about the Drakkari being Godless traitors and the Sand Trolls being too weak. So much for a united empire.

And don't give me any bullshit like "maybe they killed their leaders to replace them with pro-Zandalari ones". This whole plot started before the island sunk, and so the idea to create an empire would not have been a priority when they murdered the other trolls leaders.

>allies is not the same as friends
Now you are nitpicking.

>Isn't Scourge based necromancy powered by the plague?
Just look at the arthas storyline
Did he eat any bad grain?
Death knights and liches abd most other higher undead are created by death magic, though long winded rituals. Oou can create an army faster though the thinned down magic in form of of plagues like the orignal one that was spread through food, or the newer ones that are mostly gas based, but that usually only gives you zombies and ghouls and other low ranking mooks.

>beacuse voljin is next to velen in power level
Wait, fucking what?

>Not only are the Val'kyr less powerful than the Lich King when it comes to raising the undead, but the worgen curse also makes raising them into undeath far more difficult than it is for normal humans. The worgen curse has roots in both the Emerald Dream (through the wolf Ancient, Goldrinn) and the holy power of the goddess Elune. In addition, those worgen who imbibe the waters of Tal'doren—through the ritual they undergo to maintain balance between the worgen curse and their humanity—have a further resistance to the corruption of undeath.

It's because the lich king is 2strong

>posting weak nelf butts when you can have real as to zug zug

The plague was designed by Ner'zhul to quickly and efficiently kill off humans.

Think about it. What's better for creating an undead army, an 100% mortality rate infection spreading from person to person, or getting your limited necromancers to slowly raise the dead?

>accepting the Worgens as Night Elf dindus
No.

Arthas Res > Valk Res
Not hard, and you can be immune to something and still master it.

I look forward to new Demon Hunters

If you can prove there are two different types of "res power" used by the scourge, then I'll concede and believe you. And no I don't just want "look at these two people" I want the actually magic/disease/whatever they use.

>Why did Ragnaros and Nefarian suddenly become friends when Deathwing turned up?
When is that implied? Even if so, Ragnaros is a slave of the Old Gods and so a servant of Deathwing in Cataclysm. Nefarian is the son of Deathwing, and so his servant as well.
>Why did the Gundrak and Gurubashi trolls side with the Zandalari? The latter sent horde and alliance adventurers to kill their leaders.
Cataclysm destroyed Zuldazar and presumably killed Rastakhan. The remaining Zandalari seek to unite the remaining trolldoms in order to re-estabilish the troll empire and basically survive and stay relevant.
>Why are Worgen Death Knights a thing?
This is specifically explained during the DK intro if you play a worgen. Worgen death knights come from the pack of worgen that Arugal summoned and kept at Shadowfang Keep.

Mein neger
Green, barbaric beauties is where it's at

worgen would have fit better with old style night elves
>ah you to love tear the throats out of orcs, undeads and everyone affiliated with them, welcome to Darnassus, enjoy your stay

more like SEMEN demon hunters

amirite

where did these come from?

Okay, Frostmourne > Valks
Done.

I was quoting the devs.

Did Sargeras rip all of their eyes out and implant magical orbs or what?

>When is that implied? Even if so, Ragnaros is a slave of the Old Gods and so a servant of Deathwing in Cataclysm. Nefarian is the son of Deathwing, and so his servant as well.
Why were the fighting before then?
>Cataclysm destroyed Zuldazar and presumably killed Rastakhan. The remaining Zandalari seek to unite the remaining trolldoms in order to re-estabilish the troll empire and basically survive and stay relevant.
See

Reminder that Sargeras was a misguided good guy all along, and the void lords you have killed a couple thousand times are the ultimate evils, while old gods are just their pawns.

gear.blizzard.com/wow-chronicle-vol1

>I'm not counting MoP lore here so don't bring Mogu shit into it.
But you were the one that brought up the Throne of Thunder

>The point is that the Drakkari trolls and Gurubashi trolls would not have joined up. The Zandalari, before their island "sunk", sent people to murder their leaders and their gods. Even in the patch 4.1 trailer they talk about the Drakkari being Godless traitors and the Sand Trolls being too weak. So much for a united empire.
>And don't give me any bullshit like "maybe they killed their leaders to replace them with pro-Zandalari ones". This whole plot started before the island sunk, and so the idea to create an empire would not have been a priority when they murdered the other trolls leaders.

It's important to remember that Zul, who united the troll tribes, was never a Zandalari leader. He was simply a prophet that forsaw the Cataclysm.
The Gurubashi wanted to reconquer Stranglethorn Vale and the rest of their lost land and the Amani wanted to recreate the Amani Empire, therefor they joined up

>Now you are nitpicking.
No, they simply both wanted to bring forth the Hour of Twilight.

War of the Spider, WCIII manual.

Ner'zhul tried to use plague on the nerubians, didn't work, had to use necromancy to make the crypt fiends.

No no.
I want to know it is exactly the Valks have that differs from that of Frostmourne.

WoW: Chronicles

Plenty of new cool maps and artwork

They poke out their own eyes so they can see magic or something like that.