This game started the downfall of the series

This game started the downfall of the series.

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No that was the original Adventure not SA2. If anything SA2 was a step up from Adventure.

Heroes was the beginning of the end DESPITE more arcadey game design choices that more closely mimicked the original 2D games.

sonic cd and adventure 1 were also terrible tho

The original Sonic Adventure did.
2 managed to be worse.

Sonic Heroes was the beginning of the downfall.

Yes

Also SA2 is one of the games that I subjectively love, but I know deep down it's shit.

I may be one of the few who actually enjoy most of the Knuckles/Rogue levels though.

Did you guys play Sonic 3D Blast?

Why does everyone suddenly hate the Adventure games? Last couple of years all I hear about them is how bad they supposedly were. Did some eceleb shit on them or something like when the Egoraptor OOT video came out?

No, it's more the Adventure games genuinely aged horribly (unlike shit like OoT which aged poorly graphically but otherwise are still extremely well designed in most areas) and their last little specks of quality are finally peeling away. Coupled with Colours and Generations steering 3D Sonic in the right direction really makes it obvious where Adventure failed retroactively.

the Chao garden is 90% of the reason people kept playing SA2 for so stupid long.

>suddenly

kill yourself, my man

>Why does everyone suddenly hate the Adventure games?

Because internet personalities told them to.

Shadow the Hedgehog was the true downfall of the series.
Sonic crossed the line between "sorta cool" and "trying too hard to be cool." Then the series went under a reexamination and it turned out the entire franchise was trying to be cool.

I played it recently on Steam and thought it was shit, almost as bad as 06 in many ways. Did you have to play it when you were 8 to actually enjoy this game?

I can't think of a recent Internet review or series targetted at Adventure.

I have genuinely never seen as much hate for this series as I have the last year or two.

Fag Grumps and every other Lets Players that made a video of it afterwards.

SA2 is a masterpiece. Pic related is the true downfall.

>SA2 is a masterpiece

>we'll never get a MatthewMatosis retrospective of Sonic like we got for Mario and Zelda
Feels shitty man.

>2 worse than 1
>amy, big, and all the """"overworld"""" """exploration"""

You posted the wrong picture, bro.

this shitty series isn't worth the time

I don't know, Sonic Adventure at least would be an interesting analysis of a series that fails to transition from 2D to 3D.

S3&K was the downfall. Terrible sprites, dumb alternative knuckles gameplay, worst 1st level.

This is slightly unrelated, but has anyone else noticed how autistic the SonicRetro forums are?

forums.sonicretro.org/

Try to sign up, and you'll see what I mean. Holy shit

Sonic has always been about cool though, which is the problem in and of itself. Nintendo was kinda glad Mario's popularity waned a little in the 90s because they wanted Mario to be an icon like Mickey Mouse. Sonic was just flash in the pan with marketing everywhere that tries to change with trends.

(you)

How is it bad? It's one of the best Sonic games of all time.

mech stages
treasure hunting stages with its garbage radar
horrible camera
sonic shooting off somewhere with the slightest tap of the control stick
terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE cutscenes and story

>Sonic forum
>autistic

you don't say?

If they put another chao garden in a sonic game, call it adventure 3 it would sell like hot cakes.

Fuck add online chao racing/fighting it would be game of the year contender

Mech stages suck, and are much more enjoyable if you run through them as a speed character, it's hilariously bad.

Treasure hunting would be better if the stages were less huge and the radar wasn't nerfed, but they're still enjoyable (bar the space levels)

Camera is awful

Disagree with the bad controls point, I honestly think SA2 had the controls for the non-mech characters down. The best controlling Sonic game there is, in my honest opinion.

Cutscenes are so bad they're good.

>It's one of the best Sonic games of all time.
Yeah, no.. Perhaps one of the best 3D sonic games, which is a stretch and even if it wasn't a stretch, it wouldn't be saying much.

The mech stages are honestly the best designed stages in the game with their more traditional platforming. If they had gotten a sufficient amount of depth and attention they deserved by not being shackled to the rest of the game they couldn've been A+ material.

>Cutscenes are so bad they're good
Explain? I really see nothing redeeming at all about the cutscenes in either SA or SA2. Are you mixing up "good" with "nostalgic"?

I mean, I expected as much, but they require you to write a post about yourself before you can post.

Not only that, but they seem to be extremely elitist with it, and don't allow people who aren't native to join because they want to have 'long conversations'.

But user, that was a great game.

>best designed stages

yes, especially the one where they try to make you excited to escape the police in a giant fucking slow robot that cant run more than 10 mph.

Then they add terrible platforming onto it, and have you go around playing score attack with heat seeking missiles that require no use of the brain at all

I'm saying they're so bad it's funny.

FAKER? I THINK YOU'RE THE FAKE HEDGEHOG AROUND HERE... YOU'RE COMPARING YOURSELF TO ME? HAH! YOU'RE NOT EVEN GOOD ENOUGH TO BE M-I'LL MAKE YOU EAT THOSE WORDS!

Only in that it introduced Shadow, who then got flanderized in Shadow the Hedgehog, the true downfall of the series.

Also Adventure 1, but 2 is guilty of the same problems.

The gameplay of Sonic/Shadow levels isn't that good, it's automated, you just spam homing attack on shit over and over. Old Sonics were all about you having control over Sonic, 3D games are about gimmicky on rails sections.

I would say hilariously bad is a better term, user.
To me, the dialogue overlaps are super annoying, but I can see how it could be funny, it's just THAT bad.

Nostalgia always helps, too

SA2 used to be my favourite Sonic game

Every single time I replay it, though, I like it less and less. The mech stages are so infuriating, I find speed stages very enjoyable, but the mechs grind the game to a complete halt.

I don't think the treasure hunting is awful, but it's certainly not as good as the speed stages.

>Eggman is having a lot of realizations that his uncle was just a crazy shitbag who got his cousin Maria killed and maybe modeling himself after the kind of guy who builds a space-base to blow up the earth and worships giant lizards as the 'ultimate life-form' just makes him look like a prick
>Tails chimes in with some stupid-ass shit about how WE'LL ALL SOLVE IT TOGETHER!

Those cutscenes are fantastic in their absurdity.

WE ALL DID IT TOGETHER!

>mech stages
I asked why the game is bad. You're listing a positive.

>horrible camera
The camera was fine. Might as well say "GAME IS BAD" and call it a day.

>treasure hunting stages with its garbage radar
>using radar
Git gud. Treasure hunting was great.

>sonic shooting off somewhere with the slightest tap of the control stick
Then lower your sensitivity. You're complaining about nothing at this point.

>terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE cutscenes and story
It's a fucking Sonic game you silly goose. It's for kids. Not manchildren that want the King's English with Kojima tier cutscenes.

So... How did you know it wasn't the real one?

I will defend Sonic Adventure 2's soundtrack to absurd lengths. I love how musically varied it is for each character, even if some of them became memes. Crush 40 is a good band. All of the music fit the stages well.

Your general opinion is shit, user.

>Mech Stages
>Positive
please

Also
>Sensitivity
????

is this bait

what is this defense of the camera I keep seeing. I cant tell if you people are genuinely serious or braindead retarded

>every character's stages had a different genre
Muh dick

[City completely flooded, buildings destroyed, thousands dead]

>2 managed to be worse.
2 fixed as much as it could while still keeping the shit formula Adventure followed intact, it was better but not by nearly enough.

You did it wrong.

How did you know it wasn't the reBECAUSE YOU JUST TOLD ME FOX BOTails!

The controls bugged out whenever you tried to do any movement that wasn't digital. You can barely run in a proper circle, and the game feels like it's barely being held together when you move around on halfpipes.

Actually no, it was pic related.

I honestly haven't experienced these problems, user. Mech stages' controls were fucked.

Shadow was fun.

>Sonic skips off into the sunset of a dead, drowned city without a care

>Deem Bristow will never be Eggman again

Pollock just isn't the same

>anybody saying it was a game that came after SA2

The Sonic series is rife with decline. The beginning of the downfall would be the first main game that was worse than the last one. That's Sonic Adventure, unless you don't consider 3D Blast a spinoff.

...

It was shit. Fun, to some, somehow, but still shit.
At least SA1/2 had better conception. Shadow is shit more than 06's time and bestially bs, and is absolutely pointless to exist.

I've never even seen someone that liked this shit game say something about it being the reason they play not be "I turn my brain off to enjoy it", which is fanfuckboi talk for, "I like it because it's muh Shadow the Edgy and I like him."

Bullshit, 2 cut the fat from 1

There should be a rule against using that many quotation marks. What a fucking eyesore.

hello ribbit, we have a filter here

Youtubers

The beginning of the decline of Sonic is the launch of the Sega Saturn. Sonic's success is inherently linked to Sega's by virtue of it being the flagship cash cow. Because the Saturn failed so badly, they needed the Dreamcast to be ridiculously successful just to stay alive. Because Xtreme failed, they needed the next Sonic game to sell insanely well in order to be a killer app. The result was that Sonic Adventure had everything and the kitchen sink tossed into it in order to appeal to as many people as possible while not having nearly enough dev time to iron out the issues because they needed to cut corners of the budget. The same budget issues have plagued Sonic ever since, with games being buggy and unfinished all over the place. Even the better games suffered from either being too short (Generations, Colors) or unpolished (Adventure 2, Unleashed).

its pretty weird to see people hating adventure 2 now.
sa2 had a huge fanbase back during the early days of Sup Forums.

i guess thanks to game release dates, current kids think 3d sonic is only about boosting and going fast.
A-ranks in sa2 actually meant something.

It's fun to piss around in. It's not good, but it's fun.

It's main flaw is the retarded mission goals.

more like people who grew up on the adventure games as adolescents looked back and realized the games were ass

>That speedrun of Green Forest done in 30 seconds

>Fucking B-Rank

Times change.

I liked SA2 a lot as a young teenager. I think it's pretty bad now. Even though I enjoy playing it out of nostalgia, I'm never going to defend it, and I will go out of my way to make sure everyone else knows it's actually shit and you're wrong if you like it authentically.

The scoring system in recent games is pretty poor, though. Making it 90-100% based on your clear time removes all decision making. Just hit all the shortcuts and you did it. You never have to collect rings or do tricks.

Also because the Saturn was such a massive piece of shit when it came to 3D gameplay and graphics, all of the developed or proposed Saturn games suffered. 3D Blast was limited to isometric sprite-based graphics and gameplay. R was stupidly short and a racing game. X-treme, had it been made, was still ultimately 2D gameplay with an illusion of 3D by way of camera tricks and jumping from one plane to another. Because the Saturn was such shit, they couldn't properly develop Sonic 3D gameplay until the Dreamcast, a generation after everybody else did, and by then it was too late.

True, but it was still a pretty good game. But it was as a step down from what came before.

I like it authentically, prove to me how it's a bad game. No, please do go on.

fuck

I didn't say I was going to prove anything. It's shit, you're wrong. That's all I commited to. If you still think Sonic Adventure 2 is a genuinely good game 15 years later, you aren't going to change your mind.

That means it's a great game, gg.

congratulations on your win

>mech stages
Only Tails' levels is pure cancer. Eggman had only one shit one, being Sand Ocean. And practically all Sonic (if not all in games generally) desert levels are cancer.

> treasure hunting stages with its garbage radar
> Muh radarfags.
Granted, as someone that never played SA1 (technically) and played SA2, I still think they dumbing down the radar from SA1 was stupid. Not gamebreaking as SA1 faggots claim it is, but it still could have been in SA2. But other than that, only Rouge's levels were cancer, ESPECIALLY MAD FUCKING SPACE. Knuckles only had one bad level, being half of Aquatic Mine or half of Death Chamber.

> horrible camera
Like in practically all 3D Sonic games, Adventure 1 included.

> sonic shooting off somewhere with the slightest tap of the control stick
That was Sonic Heroes.

> terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE cutscenes and story
That was also Shadow the Hedgehog AND Sonic 06. And it's better looking than SA1, definitely.

And this is coming from someone that likes Unleashed far more than SA2, but SA2 isn't cancer as much as Shadow and 06, mainly Shadow.

>other Sonic games were bad, so that excuses SA2 also being bad
durr

> Nothing the say, the post.
Or are you just saying that because you're shitposting? I gave reasons to that other anons post, (You) do the same, fuckboi.

Literally 3 of your 5 arguments in that post are "other Sonic games were bad, so that excuses SA2." It's a retarded argument that deserves nothing more than a shitpost.

Youtube people like egoraptor and some call me johnny shitting on it

No, Sa2 hasn't aged at all.

All the things that are actually wrong with Sa2 (the bugs, the camera, the general just lack of polish) was just as noticeable back in the day. On fucking release people were complaining about the camera and jank the game had, and rightfully so. It's like people don't know what "aged badly" means

Sa2 is an extremely flawed game that manages to be fun in spite of those flaws because the core gameplay is so good.

> Coupled with Colours and Generations steering 3D Sonic in the right direction

Bullshit. Colors is a good game, but the boost style of gameplay is way worse compared to how sonic controlled in Sa1 and 2, polish aside. Also, the fact that you have forced shitty 2d segments hurts it.

Generations is like 80% 2d, it's not even a 3d sonic game.

Most of the mech and treasure hunting stages are fine.
Camera is indeed horrible
The controls are indeed a little slippery, but this isn't a major issue
The cutscenes and story are fine. I'd actually argue it's the BEST story in a sonic game.

>Only Tails' levels is pure cancer.
I disagree; IMO, rouge is the only one whose stages are more bad then good on average.

It goes Sonic > Shadow > Eggman > Knuckles > Tails > Rouge

For a franchise that was originally centered around giving the player fluid control, SA2 (and other 3D Sonic games but that's not the point) do a really great job of taking away fluid control whenever possible.

Sonic/Shadow gameplay has ridiculous amount of scripted sequences where the player does nothing, as well as linear corridors and rail segments where the player has to provide minimal control.

Tails/Eggman gameplay is really clunky and unwieldy. The best mech stage in the game is Cosmic Wall specifically because it avoids some of the control issues with the low-weight jump and the literal on-rail segments letting you aim freely without having to worry about movement.

Knuckles/Rouge levels are centered around RNG mechanics, which in itself makes them irredeemably shit. There's no challenge, it's just running or flying around waiting for a radar to ping three times. It's boring as hell and not fun at all.

It's become a new meme for some reason and I have no clue how it started. I just suddenly am seeing it everywhere.

>The cutscenes and story are fine. I'd actually argue it's the BEST story in a sonic game.

I never said it excused SA2's bs, I said other games did it worse. Not as cancer as fuckers like (You) make it out on SA2 when other shitter Sonci games did it WORSE.

It's another "if it's not 10/10, it's shit" episodes. Cancer like you people is why decent games get called cancer because you have shit standards.

>I never said it excused SA2's bs, I said other games did it worse. Not as cancer as fuckers like (You) make it out on SA2 when other shitter Sonci games did it WORSE.
That's still fucking irrelevant because SA2 was still fucking terrible, just because other games were more terrible means nothing.

Except the adventure games give the player the most amount of control of any of the 3d games in the series, if not the series as a whole

>Sonic/Shadow gameplay has ridiculous amount of scripted sequences where the player does nothing, as well as linear corridors and rail segments where the player has to provide minimal control.

That's a level design thing, not a control thing. When the player actually does have control, it's the most fluid control you have ever had over sonic. Also, linearity isn't a bad thing.

All the other 3d games make you feel like somebody turned the gravity up by 200% or you are moving through tar for anything but going straight ahead.

Wow "smug laughing image.jpg" sure is a good arguement.

Actually Xtreme did

All the 3D games were poorly made garbage after the failure of that game to release

>I disagree; IMO, rouge is the only one whose stages are more bad then good on average.
I'll take that. I don't hate Tails THAT much, but in terms of quality next to Eggman, Tails' content does feel less "polished" than Eggman's levels were, since of course he wasn't intended to be playable at first so yeah.
>just because other games were more terrible means nothing.
So games like Big Fucking Rigs is just as shit as a actualy playable game like SA2?
Fuck off, shitheads like you need to get shot because you think you're right about thinking something that you dislike makes what you dislike absolute shit when many others thinks otherwise.

what argument do I have to make that hasnt been said a million times already?

audio is horribly synced with whats happening. Voice acting is beyond garbage, the plot is actualyl WORSE then that of a saturday morning cartoon, eggman's motivations are pants on head retarded, and the character mdoels are grotesque and often dont do what theyre supposed to, ESPECIALLY in SA1

Level design is part of the gameplay. When an automated sequence is playing, I have no control. When the level design is linear as fuck, I have little control besides "hold up and maybe jump a couple times." It doesn't matter how good the control is in a magical 3D platforming segment because those segments were too few and far between amongst the scripted events and "hold up to win"

Linearity is absolutely a bad thing when you're talking about 3D platformers, especially Sonic because 2D Sonic was all about branching paths and looser controls to contrast something like Mario where there was one strict route to the end of each level, barring warp pipes.

>So games like Big Fucking Rigs is just as shit as a actualy playable game like SA2?
No you retard, are you literally a special needs child? Shittiness is a sliding scale, and just because SA2 isn't as far on that scale as other games does not change the fact that it's still shit.

Again, WHO/WHERE/WHEN the fuck did I say anywhere that SA2 wasn't bad? Did;
>And this is coming from someone that likes Unleashed far more than SA2
Not point out I don't like SA2 as much as I did as a kid, that I think it's "bad" now then I did as a kid? I don't think it's as shit as way, WAY shittier Sonic games, but it's not perfect in any way.

My point is this, it's not as shit as neo/v/ makes it out to be, and that's all I'm fucking talking about. Not that it isn't shit, that it's NOT the shittiest shit out of shittier shit like fucking Shadow and 06. Now, please, kill yourself you cancerous fucking faggot.

That's a funny way of saying it was the last good game.

You must be a special needs child if you can't follow a simple conversation chain.

asked how SA2 is bad
gives reasons why it's bad
argues against the given reasons, implying that SA2 isn't bad because other games are worse

I really don't give a shit if the first guy is you or not because it doesn't matter. You replying to a post without following the conversation is evidence of your mental incompetence.

And SA2 is still shit.