So what really makes a good map?

So what really makes a good map?

good design

So what really is good design?

A good map maker.

What kind of map?

TDM arena? Progressive capture points? An RTS?

A good map

arena pls

Updog

I'd say a good map is one with verticality and several ways to get to every area. Flat, chokepoint-based maps are lazy dogshit made by retards that don't play their own games.

FPS Multiplayer Maps, to be good, require several things:
>the right amount of complexity, not too much or too little
>correct balance, no one spawnpoint or team should have a significant advantage over the other(note this does not necessitate symmetry)
>built for FUN
There are other things, but most of them are isolated to certain types of shooters. As for my personal favorite maps(obviously subjective), they'd be along the lines of
>Crossfire(HL1)
>Doublecross(TF2)
>Argentan(DoD)
>Assault(CS)
>Runoff(HL2DM)
>Death Star(BF2)
>Nuketown
I played a lot of Valve games growing up, there's others, but atm the elude me

Flow. Think of it like multiple overlapping racetracks, the idea that the player not only has a clear sense of geography but can map out distinct routes with accessible junction points. The fewer dead ends, hard turns, bottlenecks and 'formless spaces' there are the better.

What's the best game+map maker to recreate other games and maps? UT4 with UE4?

if everyone uses like 90% of the map constantly then it's a good map

Depends on the game

Usually the reason everyone uses the map is because it's a good map, not the other way around(see Dust2, Bloodgulch).

Not too many choke points. Maps aren't fun if the battle constantly ends up clogged in one area.

>correct balance, no one spawnpoint or team should have a significant advantage over the other(note this does not necessitate symmetry)
High Ground from Halo 3 was a really good example of this.

-Flow
-Variety of routes and not just 1 or 2
-Not a single chokepoint but more than 3 natural chokepoints that, if you get blocked at, you can go an alternative route and flank them if they are single-mindedly camping it.
-Balanced between vertical and horizontal plane. Your pic is a good example of that OP
-Any point that is defensible and has great cover has either a weak spot you have to protect or means of advancing on it. No charging no mans land.

I haven't played Urban Terror in a long time, do people still play the game?

I think he's talking about surface area of the map
If there's whole aras that are never used then its a shit map

If it's an attack/defense objective map:

It should be as easy to attack as it is to defend.

Look at Overwatch maps and do the exact opposite

Ah, okay. That's true as well. Please excuse my retardation, I haven't had my coffee yet.

The choke points on the payload maps are really out of fucking hand. Then the whole are thats not the choke point is a free push. its crazy.

hidden spots
choke points
multiple paths
the rest is up to what game you're talking about

We understand and forgive

+Clean rounded/sloped geometry and muted colors
+Intelligently placed resources and pickups
+Even mix of closed and open areas for splash and hitscan
+Scattered easily identifiable props for callouts and cover
+Enough flanks to force a team to rotate but not so many defense is impossible
+Good flow and multiple intended methods for players to move across the map quickly
+Map is built around the gamemode
+Map is built around core game mechanics and classes
+Objectives spread out far enough to prevent rolls
+Some verticality but not too much

My favourite map is Harvest Day from BC2
It has
>asymmetric design, but still balanced
>two hills for snipers, but also enough cover to avoid their watchful eyes
>routes around the outside of the map, to allow for flanking
>a total of four tanks, 2 of them being in the outer cap points, making fighting for them vital
>open space in the middle, allows you to traverse to points quickly, some cover to avoid getting killed, snipers on hills will still get you so hill cleansing/control is important
>river running through the map, more cover
>basically no chokepoints
>destruction system of the game means that the dynamics of the match change over time, with houses crumbling and being less viable cover, craters doubling as cover against tanks, and so on
It's just great fun, and feels fresh with every new round.

I don't know all that much about competitive fps but the most popular maps from most I've played seem to be the ones in an urban setting with lots of flat even surfaces broken up by consistent angular shapes with easy access to levels.

Lopsided and heavy asymmetrical jungle maps are shit tier for example.

Suburban and inner city being more popular.