What exactly was the Enclaves plan afterward? They don't look like they have the population to repopulate the entire US...

What exactly was the Enclaves plan afterward? They don't look like they have the population to repopulate the entire US, why didn't they use the vaults as pockets of people to help towards this goal instead of for experiments?

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The enclave didnt actually expect nuclear war IIRC.

they were prob going to speed up the birth rates with SCIENCE

Their plan was to colonise another planet with a spaceship they had hidden away. The vault experiments were to test how to control a population stuck in a contained area (vaults > spaceships).

> They don't look like they have the population to repopulate the entire US
They don't need to right away. If we assume that everyone outside of America is dead, and you kill everyone in America aside from yourself, you literally own the world and have all the time you need to repopulate it.

> why didn't they use the vaults as pockets of people to help towards this goal instead of for experiments?

>>why didn't they use the vaults as pockets of people to help towards this goal instead of for experiments?
Because they didn't want to.

they wanted to wipe out everyone infected by FEV, which is everyone who isn't in a working non psychological test vault.

>why didn't they use vaults
they did, just certain ones, the tests were to determine how to survive hostile enviroments without sacrificing their own.

>they don't have enough people left to repopulate
thats not how it works, a new abundance of resources + post war genetic impulses = baby boom.

and their plan is continuity of government, that oil rig was not their only card to play.

>tfw I know most of this because crazy theories what the actual US would do in ww3
you guys are nuts you know that?

how badly has our education failed when idiots like this literally believe a species can survive with tiny populations and massive inbreeding

How badly has your education failed you when you think a population needs millions of individuals to survive.

Just as badly as it's failed when idiots like you apply present standards to future science. Not even "magic science" either but genuinely reasonable (however hard politically) advanced. We can already preserve eggs and sperms cryogenically for extremely long periods, and purified DNA even longer. IVF has long been a thing already, and while synthetic womb biotechnology isn't here right now there's nothing physics violating about it. At least as far as tech goes, it's actually a pretty straightforward advancement to be able to preserve the DNA of millions to tens of millions of people and have a few thousand synthetic producers, and that's PLENTY enough genetic diversity to bootstrap the species again. And that's WITHOUT any sort of gene editing whatsoever, even the most simple allele repair kind. If you can do that and apply some super basic fixes towards the really nasty extreme conditions like sickle cell, hemophilia, cystic fibrosis and such, then it'd all be even easier.

Frankly compared to the kinds of crazy shit there is throughout a lot of these games what we're discussing here is dead fucking simple, at least science-wise. The real challenges would be political and social, not genetic or technological.

You do realize that you are retarded, right?
The Enclave has been hanging out on that rig since 2070, which automatically implies they have been maintaining a breeding population. They will not magically become nonviable overnight.

no

The Enclave has a surprisingly large population on the rig.

That being said, their real plan was to use the space ship in San Fransisco to fly to another planet. The vaults were to test humanity, so that the real survivors (Enclave) would have enough knowledge to survive any situation once they got there.

But, the space ship got destroyed, and then the Chinese and Hubologists arrived in San Fran and took away the remains to rebuild themselves.

That's not what he was talking about. He was referring to the genetic bottleneck issue, and he's right that if you were literally starting with a few hundred and bred naturally, it'd likely result in pretty massive issues due to the lack of genetic diversity, particularly if you had the bad luck to have some nasty mutations (and in post-apocalyptic setting with radioactive fallout floating around all over the place that's kind of a serious concern). You'd really want a base of at least a few tens of thousands, and hundreds of thousands preferably. Though with good enough germline genetic engineering you could probably get away with less. Also, a pretty major population is important for technological advances and even maintenance, which again in that kind of setting is going to matter.

Where he goes wrong though is thinking that an intelligently directed science-backed project like that would proceed like a bunch of hunter gatherers banging rocks together. We don't need people to actually be alive to preserve and utilize their genes anymore, even today.

Spaceship plan was more stupid then just wiping out and repopulating Earth though. Or for that matter building colonies under the ocean or something.

To literally leave earth on a spaceship.

they have the technology to do everything.

they made power armor more advanced than ever before. they achieved flight in a world where cars rarely work.

The space ship plan was under the assumption that the Earth would be fucked pretty much beyond repair.

And, what with the deathclaws, trogs, and other shit, they were basically right.

You must remember that the space ship actually worked back before the Hubologists put it together wrong.

The Enclave and Brotherhood were both retarded

The only person with a good achievable idea for the future is Mr. House

here come the housefags!

Here come the NV fags

No user, you're missing the point. You are failing to appreciate the kinds of ludicrously insane amounts of energy and technology needed to do an actual interstellar starship for real, even ignoring genuine magic-tech like FTL. Basically, if you've got the tech to put together a functional large scale starship capable of actually transporting significant amounts of real physical matter (not a starwisp, though even that is challenging enough) then terraforming a planet is pretty fucking trivial. Earth in that setting is not even slightly, REMOTELY "fucked" compared to any other planet we've discovered anywhere in the galaxy. Relative to the work of terraforming a whole new world it'd be FAR easier, faster, and more effective to just rework Earth itself.

Using their ship to do orbital bombardment or set up some self-replicating asteroid factories or something? Sure. Colonization of another world? Fucking retarded. The kinds of events that'd make it worth a forced interstellar move wouldn't be piddly shit like in that setting, it'd be REAL PROBLEMS, like:
- Nearby (within a few light years) star experiences a hypernova, entire solar system is going to get cooked/vaporized outside of the sun itself and gas giants.
- Relativistic Blackhole/neutron star flies through, gravity waves fling Earth into interstellar space.
etc. Actual planet/solar system destruction events. Anything that actually leaves air & water on Earth at all is automatically nothing.

So are we all suffering from inbreeding right now or does everyone think we started with 7 billion people.

The Brotherhood's codex is to preserve humanity by making sure powerful technology doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

I just think they are poorly portrayed in subsequent Fallout games. Most notably in Fallout 4 with their big proclamation broadcasting their existence to the entire Commonwealth on their big zeppelin. RIP Matt.

The Enclave's plan is wrong not so much as to how but why. This is what happens when blind patriotism and nationalism goes too far. The population was brainwashed generation after generation thinking they were rightful heirs to America and made to believe all the people there were scum and rationalized genocide. You had the chance to speak with an Enclave soldier on the Oil Rig and hold a friendly conversation with him. It isn't until you explicitly mention you are a mutant that he decides to attack you.

Garden of Eden Creation Kit.

If we assume that's they had a magical schitzotech workaround that let them hop through systems without any of the issues, the plan becomes perfectly viable.

If we also assume that the people who came up with the plan in the first place weren't malicious and/or outright suicidal, they did, in fact, have such a workaround.

What I'm trying to say is, if they didn't have a practical way to get there, they never would have built a spaceship in the first place because there would be no reason to do so.

Jews and Muslims seem to think it works.

Except most of the technology they take isn't powerful or even oriented in violence.

BoS are just a well equipped raider gang.

But planet terriforming technology, cold sleep, space travel, and AI all exist in the Fallout universe.

The Brotherhood is a victim of their own coolness. They might have second thoughts about their mission every once in a while, but nobody wants to stop roleplaying as techno-knights of the wasteland, so the mission must go on.

You fucking nailed it

Explain why destroying the gold reserves of a fledging nation is 'making sure powerful technology doesn't fall into the wrong hands.'

BOS don't care about humanity, they care about themselves, only.

I agree with this

This is probably also true of FO3 and beyond.

Which will work even better, faster and more effectively on Earth.

>If we assume that's they had a magical schitzotech workaround that let them hop through systems without any of the issues, the plan becomes perfectly viable.
No, it's still dumb. That's the whole point. If you've got that kind of tech, then it's still a better idea to use it on Earth first. There is no non-Earth-destruction (as in literal, genuine destruction, not a few nuclear firecrackers popping around) scenario where Step 1 isn't "Fix Earth first". Yes, after that colonizing the rest of the solar system and then aiming for other systems is a smart way to get all of the eggs out of one basket and ensure that no single event will cause the kind of species risk seen in Fallout, but the foundation is still Earth and our solar system.

I guess though if it had been handled realistically there wouldn't be much of a game. They'd have gone right into space with their magic ship, immediately set up self-replicating resource harvesting and factories, gotten up some stations on the Moon for local mass perhaps, and then curb stomped the entire planet without the slightest difficulty. Electromagnetic launchers work fine on the moon, giving them effectively infinite orbital bombardment capability, GG. They could eliminate every hostile complex lifeform and proceed from there.

Except you didn't read my post.
>POORLY PORTRAYED

you can beat Fallout 1 without ever coming across the Brotherhood of Steel. They are supposed to be that secretive.

exactly. it's not supposed to be a job that's cool. It's a job that they were born into. A family tradition. Like farming. But it makes sense that some of them would run away and try and live a nice life too. Going back to the point, once something has been popular, you can't not include them in the sequels. Everyone is going to want to look for them and sequels tend to be more easily-accessible than the previous games, leading to more generalizations and losing track of the original intent. They are not cool. They are not holy or chosen in any way. They are lonely guys in a Mason-like society doing what they believe is necessary for the continuation of their species.

Yes. That's the Enclave's plan is dumb.

You think House would've sided with the Enclave if they were still around when he woke up? I feel like he wouldn't just because of his opinion on how America ended up, but they had a large, educated population and the technology to accomplish his plans.

>Which will work even better, faster and more effectively on Earth.

Except for the horrible mutating diseases, deadly background radiation, and giant hulking mutants and monsters infesting every building.

>exactly. it's not supposed to be a job that's cool. It's a job that they were born into. A family tradition. Like farming. But it makes sense that some of them would run away and try and live a nice life too. Going back to the point, once something has been popular, you can't not include them in the sequels. Everyone is going to want to look for them and sequels tend to be more easily-accessible than the previous games, leading to more generalizations and losing track of the original intent. They are not cool. They are not holy or chosen in any way. They are lonely guys in a Mason-like society doing what they believe is necessary for the continuation of their species.
I suppose though that actually that's pretty realistic in terms of what we see with actual political institutions too. Original aims get lost, corroded, and corrupted over time.

Think about their line of thought here.

Prewar dude: if the planet gets fucked beyond repair, we get in the spaceship and fuck off.
Post war oilrig dude: we are the true inheritors of the US. We must follow the plan. The plan involves a spaceship.
Post-post war oilrig dude: When our ancestors inherited the US, they said they would follow the plan. The plan is to use the spaceship. What do you mean we can fix the planet? Doesn't matter, we must follow the plan, now get me that spaceship.

Not to mention america didn't have it that bad compared to some places.Especially China.

>you can beat Fallout 1 without ever coming across the Brotherhood of Steel.
I actually did that. Didn't even know they were a thing until much later.

I think the fact that he wasn't part of the enclave is telling that he doesn't have high praise for them.

Remember, he was a titan of industry, and some of that industry was Military hardware, House would have known and been chummy with the elite that would have formed the Enclave leadership.

I feel that if House had wanted any part of it, he would have been...

>You think House would've sided with the Enclave if they were still around when he woke up? I feel like he wouldn't just because of his opinion on how America ended up, but they had a large, educated population and the technology to accomplish his plans.
No, because House would remember the original US government and want nothing to do with them.

>Except for the horrible mutating diseases, deadly background radiation
Are you somehow implying that horrendous environmental issues won't be a huge issue on a life-free world? Plus you won't have all the useful biochemicals, liquid water, O2 and such readily accessible?

>and giant hulking mutants and monsters infesting every building.
How fucking dumb are you that you think this is even a slight, minuscule issue vs interstellar travel? Is every building on Earth a problem? Just rod-from-god them all then. That's comparatively super cheap, simple and economic.

It sounds to me you have some personal issues you need to work out involving fiction.

Here's a better question:

Why the fuck did they wait over a century to actually go over to the mainland? Did they not know what the Master was planning?

I would think that would be enough justification for accelerating their plans.

What I am arguing is that their line of thought was retarded, at every single step of the way. Not that they didn't have it. The world is full of retarded people. Utter retards at the highest levels of government is certainly not inconceivable. Doesn't change them being retarded though.

>get rekt
>adhom
Ok user.

Also, lol if you think there isn't lots of fiction that handles this all just fine. We're talking specifically about Fallout here. If you really think FO is how all fiction is, you should try reading some actual good books once in a while.

No, you just have some personal issues with being able to accept that fiction isn't reality.

That's okay. Take your time.

No, you're just a child who has some issues understanding the difference between fiction and fantasy. It's alright user, it's summer, we know there are a lot of you neo/v/ kids around.

get a room already.

i actually don't remember but i think there is a reason for it somewhere. i think they might have been preoccupied with something else or they weren't ready to explore yet.

Hahahahahaha

>century of preparation
>not ready to explore

Enclave confirmed for just as incompetent as current US government

Humanity has at one point been down to tens of thousands and we came back. You don't need as many as you'd think to repopulate

Well they ARE the US government so this shouldn't be a surprise.

beat me to it

youtube.com/watch?v=c8L8NopVwdg

>a working non psychological test vault

They existed?

I thought every vault had some retarded experiment.

No, there was a number of control vaults which were perfectly functional.

From what I remember, Shady Sands was formed from one of these, which then went on to found the NCR.

Nah, V15 was an experiment to see what happened if you put a lot of different cultures in the same place.

This

Some of the vaults had only mild experiments that would be unlikely to cause huge amounts of damage, but every vault still had some retarded gimic like 'lol what if every1 was gary xDD'

They were retarded and their plan sucks, that's the point. They're poseurs of the people that nuked the world, and all authority in Fallout is supposed to be really clueless and stupid.

Vault City was a control Vault

Yes. Humans already do have less genetic variance than most species due to what was probably a bottleneck sometime in our prehistory. As a result, inbreeding tends to have worse effects for us than for most species.

However, I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to go into this, because your question and the way you said it implies you have some very ill-informed ideas of how species come about.

You "can" beat Fallout 1 without ever coming across Shady Sands or the Hub, but that doesn't make them secretive. While the inner workings of the Brotherhood are behind very strong closed doors, its existence itself isn't a secret. All the caravans go there.

wasn't there a white noise vault that made everyone go fucking nuts? or was that the same vault with the hallucinogens in the air conditioners?

The Enclave probably has far fewer people than that.

V15 was experimental, just a relatively benign one. You're thinking of V8, which eventually became Vault City.

Yeah, V92 and V106 respectively.

The Gary vault was testing cloning which ended up with clones cloning clones, which could happen, the only thing silly was them only saying their name.

>hey let's bring in a bunch of musicians and make them listen to white noise
>why
>i dunno to test the human psyche or something

a lot of vaults pissed me off. like the one where they had to sacrifice the overseer every once in a while only to find out "LOL YOU NEVER HAD TO KILL ANYONE IT WAS A SOCIAL EXPERIMENT TO SEE IF YOU'RE GOOD PEOPLE OR NOT"

Those were different ones, yes. Both in Fallout 3.

Remember that these were designed to find the best way to send ships full of people out on spaceships, and it gets easier to suss out the rationale behind them.

The white noise and hallucinogenic vaults were probably intended to find ways of keeping people docile and/or compliant during the long travel. The "the community must execute one person every XX days" vault was probably testing how to socially condition people to sacrifice each other for the greater good. I'm not really sure where the gambling vault fits in, but I suppose at least some of the vaults were to test outside-the-box social models.

.tfw no romanceable supermutant boyfriend
why even live

I'm not the user you've been in a shit flinging match with and your arguments seem scientifically sound but I have to say you do not seem like the kind of person who has friends.

bump tbf