Why does original Starcraft feels like a gritty high level sci-fi space opera and Starcraft II feels like a shitty...

Why does original Starcraft feels like a gritty high level sci-fi space opera and Starcraft II feels like a shitty cartoon. What happened?

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Metzen happened

the graphics were more gritty in starcraft 1

commercial mass production and fast food culture happened.

He wrote the original too

>Even allowing for cartoonish comic-book level storytelling, I’m still kind of perplexed at some of the choices the writers made here. The entire first campaign is spent turning Kerrigan from Zerg to Human form again, only to have her reverse the process a few missions into the next campaign. Kerrigan has now gone from Human to Zerg to Human to Zerg. The mystique and horror are gone. It’s just a switch the writers can flip.

>Kerrigan re-Zerging herself does strike me as a Dumb Thing for her to do, but in the context of this topsy-turvy world it’s hard for me to argue against this from a character perspective. Everyone feels VERY STRONG EMOTIONS and WILL! NOT! BE! STOPPED! by their adversaries. Jim, Mengsk, Sara, General Duke… they all do some ludicrous things because they’re VERY UPSET about some damn thing.

>I am reminded of the death of Commander Shepard at the start of Mass Effect 2, only to bring him back a couple of minutes later. It doesn’t matter if this “makes sense” from the standpoint of in-universe lore, it’s a terrible thing to do to your story. Having things happen and then un-happen and then re-happen just shows the audience that this universe is arbitrary and that the rules don’t mean anything. When I run into stories that reverse themselves like this it makes me want to skip to the end. The author [hopefully] has a fixed destination in mind, and they see the space between here and there as a void to be filled with shouting and bullets.

They changed the series to be more like a shitty Korean MMO in hopes of converting the remaining 1% of Korea that wasn't already playing the original.

Difference is that multiple people wrote the original.

Metzen is good at characterization and world building, but he's shit at plot consistency and pretty much everything else.

Yes, but Metzen has suffered from complacency ever since WOW: unable to be reigned in or fairly edited, he sinks into rehashing the same plot endlessly.

I guaran-goddamn-tee Overwatch will have Reaper and Widowmaker turning good and Talon becoming the greater evil.

They decided to "cinematize" Starcraft and give it a more Hollywood feeling.

Talking heads with a lot of dialogue weren't cool.

youtube.com/watch?v=8OlS74Yj148

Tassadar's sacrifice in this short movie had more weight than the entire plot of II despite the terribad graphics.

I guess Blizzard in Starcraft 1 was just doods doing stuff they thought was cool, while current Blizzard is about pushing a product appealling to the most people, hence the infantilization of it all.

exactly
nothing in 2 had any weight to it

well, I was sad when tychus got rekt
I was rooting for him

This thing's really pathetic.

i would have been more sad if i didnt see that scenario coming about 10 hours before it happened

You grew up

Starcraft
>You speak of knowledge, Judicator? You speak of experience? I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities... Unto my experience, Aldaris, all that you've built here on Aiur is but a fleeting dream. A dream from which your precious Conclave shall awaken, finding themselves drowned in a greater nightmare.

Starcraft II
>JAAAAAAAMES RAAAAAAAYNOR I BRING TIDINGS OF DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

can i play brood war on windows 10? is the campaign worth playing?

fucking hell i will always be salty about how they butchered zeratul

Yes. The opening theme was classic as hell.

they tried to design sc2 as if it was warcraft
i remember being so disappointing when i made the first goliath in that one campaign level, and the idle animation was it jostling around like it was some gnomish invention. very unstarcraft like

Not true. I replayed it not too long ago. The mission variety is pretty poor and they are pathetically easy if you know how to play (I remember struggling a lot as a kid). But the story holds up really well.

And it's not the case of "you liked it as a kid, so you will like it as an adult, because of memories". Many games I replayed, I realized were never really good, like Diablo 1 to stay in the same ballpark.

the campaign is fantastic, definitely worth playing. Unfortunately i still have 7 but id imagine it cant be too hard to get running on 10.

Some older games like starcraft have some color problems when running it on newer operating systems, I was able to fix it by disabling windows explorer before running the game and just turning it back on when youre done playing, but you may be able to find an easier solution

I hate everything about Neoblizzard's writing. It is so fucking terrible.
I liked SC1 where the Overmind was some sort of Unknowable horror from beyond; instead of what he was in SC2. A misunderstood hero.
The zerg go autistic over ESSENCE and there are PRIMAL ZERG for REASONS

Diablo 1 had a nice dark atmosphere. Tristram was really good. I liked Diablo 2's eternal night desert town too.
But, in diablo 3 there was the protoss styled heaven that clashed with everything else in the series.

Warcraft was had an interesting story until 3 where the orcs were changed from demon worshipping monsters into DINDU NUFFINS.

I really miss the old blizzard.

Don't forget the difference between original Mengsk and saturday morning cartoon villain Mengsk in II.

It's like the original was written by a bunch of sci-fi neckbeards while II was written thinking about what would lead to the coolest scenes and moments.

This. The problem is Blizzards' narrative since 2008 has been complete and utter hollywood shit.
Starcraft 2 actually has a really cool story beneath the hollywood narrative.
Narrative as in the way the story is told to you.

When I shit talked StarCraft II for being a cartoon at release, people here bitched me the fuck out.

It's almost like I was right all along.

Same shit with Diablo III.

Diablo, Diablo II: Lord of Destruction, and StarCraft: Brood War made my childhood fucking awesome.

Then I waited ten plus years for Blizzard to take two giant shits on my chest.

btw, the Tristram theme music is now playing in your head.

>I guess Blizzard in Starcraft 1 was just doods doing stuff they thought was cool, while current Blizzard is about pushing a product appealling to the most people

So what you're saying is that capitalism destroys everything of value in the name of maximum profitz.

No way, man. Diablo holds up. It's one of the most visually appealing games of all time. Oh, and dat fucking soundtrack, man.

I still play it from time to time. It just takes a minute to get used to walking everywhere.

>THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A QUEEN OF BLADES
>THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A LICH KING
>THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A DIABLO
What did they mean by this?

He's laughing at us.

yeah unfortunately there will always be fags who dickride shitty games no matter what

lol what

Diablo 1 is one the greatest games of all time.

Easily better than 2 if you care about a "gritty"

Starcraft 2 is defo not a cartoon, neither is Diablo 3. The thing is just the direction.
The two games has the same stuff as what was in the previous games, it was just not as gritty looking and in general the atmosphere was toned down in favor of a more mobil game type User interface.

They see mincapable of letting the bad guys be bad guys. Nope, it's always some lame, personality-less outside threat that everyone has to unite against. It's so fucking gay.
Every interesting villain has to be tragically misunderstood! I'm so salty over how they ruined Kerrigan, the Orcs, the Zerg, etc.

Lotv sucks dick.

The funny thing is that Diablo 2 kinda pulled a (no really Diablo's still active), but It made sense, because the ending of D1 (stick a shard of evil into your head that contained Diablo and was the vector for the Diablo you fought) kinda forcast it.

Why would destroying the soulstone of Diablo not work to the extent that it did?

i still like the gameplay and honestly the campaign is still fun, especially wings of liberty

but i won't argue the writing is dogshit

Everyone who liked the abortion that was sc2 got contained in sc2 general which then later got contained on /vg/. So thankfully those fucking retards are well and truly hone now. Unfortunately we still have dumbasses who want to talk about fucking overwatch constantly.

It's narrative styles. Most of what came out from blizzard et al in the 90s was just cribbing off of Sci-Fi and Fantasy books from the 80s.

I mean, it's not even remotely subtle. There's a kind-of-a-big-deal author CJ Cherryh, has a trilogy where the third book's name is literally "The fires of Azeroth" (came out in 1979). In this book, a horde of refugees from a dying world takes a portal from another world to an unsuspecting idyllic forest world. The blatant rip-offs don't even begin to stop there, entire warcraft lore is utterly riddled with these sorts of things.

Every single piece of what could even remotely be considered "good" about blizzard's narritives is stolen wholesale. Metzen can't write for shit, and when blizzard started getting successful and he couldn't blatantly rip off other works and had to make his own shit, it went downhill. Fast.

Kerrigan was a huge bitch who betrayed Raynor, killed Fenix, the Matriarch and Duke and in the final mission she literally goes to war and wins against everyone else in the galaxy.

But well, she had to become some sort of tragic figure and love interest.

The tone and plot of SC2 is is practically the opposite of what it was in SC1+BW

SC1
>things hardly ever work out as planned
>the villains are competent and regularly outsmart you
>everything starts fucked and only gets worse
>half the people you work with betray the fuck out of you eventually

SC2
>everything works out as planned
>all story decisions are retroactively correct, even if they contradict eachtother
>heroes outsmart villains constantly
>bad guys were secretly good all along
>when you do get betrayed by a handful of characters, it never matters because you either kill them immediately or they just fuck off with no real impact on anything

awful fucking story.

since i decided i'd hop back onto ICCup i recently sat through watching all of SCBW's cinematics again.

>tfw we will never have cutscenes as epic as the Battle on the Amerigo
youtube.com/watch?v=9AL-kScqdr0
>tfw blizzard will never make a masterpiece like this ever again
youtube.com/watch?v=873TY867eL4
>tfw blizzard will never be able to make such unimportant characters so good by showing off how irrelevant they are by making you destroy them from the perspective of the "bad guys"
youtube.com/watch?v=-00uQzXyujI
>tfw we might not get an epic character who's efforts go pretty much to waste, but for the sake of a good cause like tassadar did:
im not gonna complain about what we're getting now, because none of their old stuff will become bad. it'll just get old, and maybe we'll get tired of it, but when we come back to it, it's especially that hit of nostalgia that we want to get out of their old stuff (usually) anyways. I'll be honest, I was pretty happy about what we got with Starcraft 2. Half way through HotS and majority of LotV's story was shitty but what can we do about it? And quite frankly I really liked WoL's campaign, and their opening cinematic/trailer for it was pretty damn good, and I feel like the days, months, and even years leading up to Starcraft 2's release were worth it simply for the hype

I wonder how people around BW release would react if someone told them that the conlusion to Starcraft is Kerrigan going super sayian and battling a giant slug, who created literally everything, to save the world.

You weren't able to make any story decisions in SC1+BW.

But at least the game was honest about how your choices in a given mission didn't matter.

I have always wondered if that tacticool guy in the amerigo cutscene was a ghost.

But if you could, they'd either make you live with a bad decision, or have both options fuck you over to varying degrees. None of this quantum storyline bullshit.

Activision happened. WoW happened

nah, he was a demolitionist. a bunch of marines wouldnt know shit about explosives (probably. then again they're all LITERALLY a bunch of deported criminals) His outfit doesnt fit that of a ghost, and lacks proper gear for cloaking, etc. I picture all ghosts to be sam fisher-esque. that, and he looks WAY too redneck

well, tassadar united high and dark templar at least

>It may not be tomorow, darlin', it may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured; I'm the man who's gonna kill you one day. I'll be seeing you.

My butthurt will forever be ruptured. Fuck StarCraft 2.

Multiplayer was OK but ruined by the retarded macro mechanics.

Looking again at the starcraft unit models and portraits, the cowardly tacticool guy looked like the Terran Civilian unit the most.

That cinematic made me remember that Dugalle was a retard, he should have trusted Stukov instead of the infested nigger.

Eh, I'm not sure they would have punished you for it.

The Enslaver's campaigns did that, as well the first mission on Korhal determining once version of the second mission you would have to do (i.e. do you want to fight nuking ghosts, or fight battlecruisers (and they will still have nukes))

Sure, you could just start from any mission, and you don't need to play missions in any order (particularly if you already have a completed file that you are playing with), but the game didn't force you

eh, hence why i said pretty much. he might have done that, but reminder that the overmind was pretty much reborn shortly after, zerg still ran rampant thus still posed a threat regardless of the overmind. plus kerrigan was still alive, zerg were still all over aiur and shakuras, etc. etc. etc.

You grew up.

youtube.com/watch?v=uIt4tmkvVtE

Dugalle did what he thought was right. Kerrigan and Duran did really well of making Stukov out to be a bad guy. as in >the villains are competent and regularly outsmart you
pretty much spot on. Didn't even know Duran was infested until waaay too late, but lack of communication to Stukov, plus framing him as he goes to make a move independently just made things even harder.

Tassadar was such a fucking bro and my nigga.

He went against all the shit on his way no matter what.

>Tassadar Jesus because lel :^)
Good thing I skipped the 2 expansions.

I wish there was more depiction of infested kerrigan pre-sc2. She looks a ton uglier but for some reason this turns me on so much more

To be sure, this is good thing.

I'm kinda annoyed how hard it is to figure out how to get WC3:TFT to rejigger my stat points so my blood mage has a better banish spell.

her appearance in cinematics and brood war box doesn't really much her in game portrait
curious actually, perhaps early stages of waifubait

About a year ago my uncle gave me discs of SC1 and the expansions, I have never played a strategy game, do I give it a shot?

You owe it to your uncle

The original Mengsk was a cunt, but a cunt that wanted to get shit done. He had ambition and knew how to get power and manage it. SC2 Mengsk is a fucking twirling moustache villain.

You should nigga, but i don't think the Starcraft is the best starting point. Try Red Alert 2 first if you want to get into RTS genre.

please i need new players to play iccup so i dont feel bad about being as bad as i am and none of my friends grew up with it like i did. i got one of my friends to play, only one game though and he said it made his head hurt

They did the same thing to all of their franchise. Just look at any in game cinematic in WoW post cataclysm. They have an obsession with exaggerated facial expressions and movements for some reason.

>iccup
I feel like I should know who you are since why would you even go on iccup anyway
Hop on fish, unless that is dead (doubtful)

They weren't afraid of copying better stories.

They weren't afraid to kill characters that mattered.

How come the older blizz games like D2, WC, and BW had way more fucked up and darker stories. it was more about setting the game universe and the characters were just a small part of the world.

Now it's like all of Blizzards story writing is just a generic everyone hold hands and get together, stopping an ancient evil from destroying the universe.

Starcraft
>butchered edgy Doctor Manhattan plagiarism

Starcraft 2
>not pretentious af

Actual lore was good in the original. In SC2 it's a generic comic book trash plot.

He's right, Diablo is an overrated clicker lootfest that was praised to hell and back because it was edgy and a Blizzard product in the 90s. They peaked around Wacraft 2/Starcraft and gradually went downhill from there.

>but i don't think the Starcraft is the best starting point
This is what I'm most concerned with, my friend has an everlasting erection over Supreme Commander and the expansion, how about that?

Blizzard WoWified it

Same as Diablo III, but in the latter it was too much for people to take.

Pretty much this. SC2 was just something to sell people who namedropped Starcraft.
I was the only person who could play BW at the SC club in my university

I will always regret my uni not having a BW club. I would have hung out with them every day.

>first scene was a ripoff of aliens
>second scene was a ripoff of apocalypse now
obviously the issue is that they started copying shitty new hollywood instead of good movies

Also for anyone that gives a shit
twitch
.tv/esl_sc2

Finals of IEM Ching Chong Shanghai Edition

And Brood Wars ASL tournament will be on in 7h 55m on /gsl .
teamliquid.net/calendar/

The SC2 tournament on right now, they aren't as good as top koreans but the two finalists are definitely low tier korea play so it's good to watch. The BW tournament later is all ex BW pros rebuilding a new league and it's pretty great.

Activision. Appeal to a larger audience.

>They weren't afraid to kill characters that mattered.

This is a big change and it makes sense that characters die in a war.

In SC+BW you had:

>Tassadar
>The Overmind
>Fenix
>Aldaris
>Duke
>Matriarch
>Dugalle
>Stukov

I mean, the majority of the named characters died.

If you want the best of the two, you just play the Brood War remake in Starcraft 2. It's identical to BW but with the SC2 graphics and better pathfinding. So it's pretty much Brood War, but better

Starcraft
>crazy religious heretic talk
>turns out to be right

Starcraft 2
>I'M MEDIVH AYY LMAO

Didn't know bout the book. Guess your post pretty much explains the terrible writings Blizzzard games had for a decade now.

Sure, you could be blown the fuck up by battle ships or be nuked the next mission depending on your choices.

Give it a shot, it's a solid game, especially if you have a friend to play it with.

please elaborate
how does it avoid the blob vs blob micro-less fights of SC2?

How come Kerrigan turned into a nigger?

Does zerg give her space aids

I always thought she was mulatto is SC1. I was confused when they turned her white for WoL's pre-manifestation flashback.

so it's BW with two of the main things that make SC2 worse than BW?

Does it still have the A move from SC2? A big part of BW was that a moving your army like in SC2 was extremely retarded, and that was partly due to the 12 units per group limitation.

I only have WoL though, I never gave another dime to those cunts. Does it work with WoL?

Well, it does not, it's only the Brood War campaing, but redone in Starcraft 2, but it does have the SC:BW damage type (light-medium-heavy) instead of SC2's.

15 years from now there's going to be people saying Diablo 3 was the greatest game of all time.

All games are subjective. It's literally impossible for us to be objective because we formed our opinions about those games when we ourselves were kids.

Every generation says that the games they grew up with were the greatest games of all time because [reasons]. And every generation says that the new games don't make sense and/or are too silly.

I've played it. It's alright. But it's not the SC1 graphics and BW > SC2 in that regard.

They made it too fucking spectacular.

SC2 Terran campaign was pretty good.
HOTS sucked
LOTV fun to play but story is trash.

overall pretty forgettable

This is fucking retarded, nobody thinks gaming peaked with Pong.

And the game told you pretty explicitly what would happen in that one case, and it pretty much did.

Still didn't really matter storyline wise (does it matter if you had to fight through nukes or battlecruisers to get mensk in story?

>Does it still have the A move from SC2?
Yes, it's in SC2, so pretty much every feature of SC2 is there
>Does it work with WoL?
No, you need Heart of th Swarm to play it

Just do it nigga

There are more people playing D2 than D3 so who cares.

A 15 year old game is more popular than a 4 year old game. Discussion done.