Sonic 4

What went wrong? Did they ever intend to do an Episode III?

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>What went wrong?
It was uninspired & had shitty physics.
>Did they ever intend to do an Episode III?
Pretty sure I heard there was but poor sales made them decide not to do it.

I think they got the job done in recreating the simplicity of the first game, physics aside.

Was originally intended to be a mobile game until some exec decided at the last minute to make it a digital console/PC release as well.

Episode 2 was good

It was final proof that DIMPS just doesn't get it. They just don't understand there physics of the old games or why people liked it.

All of their sonic games have this problem. Sonic 4 was simply the most distilled and obvious representation of their failing.

Piss-poor level design that is over reliant on sudden death pits is also a DIMPS hallmark, but I didn't play enough of 4 to see if they avoided those mistakes.

poor level design
poor physics
poor graphics
poor music
poor bosses

and then to make the game even worse, they reuse old zones from genesis era but with all those current issues. i actually ran through episode 1 and 2 about 2 weeks ago.

and Dimps are the same people that did, outside the DBZ games, Sonic Advance 1 and Pocket Adventure

and Rush Adventure, which had better level design than Sonic 4

The advance and rush series suffer from what I described.

They are still good games.

People don't understand that Dimps is a large studio with multiple teams. When Sega commissions them to make a shitty mobile game with console/PC ports in six months with a shoestring budget, Dimps puts their generic codemonkeys to work instead of anyone good. If Sega gives them a decent amount of time and budget then they'll get a good result.

Remember when Episode 1 got leaked and the backlash was so immense that they changed the minecart level and the points grinding level for the console version? The pinball one got replaced with a level that rewards/bribes you with a dozen extra lives for being pushed along through automated spring and booster sequences.

The people at Dimps who were behind Pocket Adventure and Advance 1 were long gone by the time Sonic 4 was being developed. I'd say they probably left around the time of Rush or Rush Adventure, considering how awful the physics were in those games as well.

>bought the sonic bundle in the humble bundle
>play sonic generations
>modern sonic controls like a nigger
>want to scream every time I play him
>classic sonic controls well
>my experience is saved solely because of him
Sonic was a fucking mistake

>The people at Dimps who were behind Pocket Adventure and Advance 1 were long gone by the time Sonic 4 was being developed.
No wonder levels got worse and worse.

Spoken like a true underage.

Fucking this x10

Another thing people don't understand is that back during the Pocket Adventure/Advance days, they had people like Yuji Naka helping them out - everything up to Rush was basically a collaboration of Sonic Team and DIMPS, instead of just being a lazy outsourced game. You can tell with the Sonic Colors DS version, Sonic 4, Unleashed Wii and so on that there was way less Sonic Team involvement (other than Iizuka watching over them), and of course by then the good Sonic Team staff had all left anyway.

Pretty sure DIMPS is mostly a code-monkey company anyway, that's why they mostly work on anime fighting game adaptations and the like. Give them decent resources and direction and you'll get a decent game. You get what you pay for, and SEGA doesn't seem to be paying for very much these days.

>I'm "underaged" because I don't like sloppy "controls"

how was level design on episode 2?

DIMPS is shit for producing video games.

And I love Budokai 3.

Slightly better but that's not saying much, still mediocre overall. Physics were better though, and the team mechanic let you compensate for bullshit via team attack moves.

No, you're "underaged" because you type like a 16 year old.

That shit was funny, like what in the hell were they thinking?
youtube.com/watch?v=QSkST3lugV8

>DIMPS is shit for producing video games
Yeah, that's kind of my point. Sonic Pocket Adventure and the Sonic Advance's were good because they had heavy Sonic Team involvement back when Sonic Team still had some competent staff. People act like DIMPS has gotten worse but it's always been a shithole full of low-tier code monkeys - it's just easier to tell now that there's no talent carrying them.

One of the most insulting games ever. The game that showed that sega clearly had NO IDEA what made sonic good. Episode 2 was better but still pretty shit.

youtube.com/watch?v=0XqHd_W2Bcs

what the fuck is this garbage

...

Those were some good times reading the backlash and reactions to this shit.

Episode 2 was alright

>homing attack
>in a 2d sonic game
>ever

might as well put in z-targeting in a 2d zelda game while we're at it

Dimps

It's an older build of the console version of the game. The mobile version got it though.

The homing attack was already in a couple of the Advance games and both rush games...

While it doesn't look as bad as Sonic 4 this made me not want to try that game.

it wasn't in advanced

>Advance
you're mistaking that as the pound attack

I was about to deny that also but apparently it is in Sonic Advance 2 & I'm assuming 3.
youtube.com/watch?v=LuspYbCm1gs

i did not know this...

See this is the problem with games like this.
They think in code "if X.speed > 5: slope collision = true" when it should be in relation to the angle of a slope to determine how much leeway there should be. 90 degree angles should cancel all acceleration and at the peak you should lose collision from the ground and fall.

Remember when the reveal trailer didn't even have a proper running animation? It was just a sped up walk cycle

It's okay. I played Advance 2 plenty of times without realizing you could do a homing attack.

It was just kinda there.

DELETE THIS

>Pocket Adventure
That was by SNK for fuck sake

sonic team must be tired of doing sonic games

I remember when people thought we were getting a Pokemon game by Sega

>What went wrong? Did they ever intend to do an Episode III?
They made a game that wasn't Sonic 4 or ever planned to be, and then Segas marketing said to call it Sonic 4.

That's seriously it.

But Classic Sonic controlled like shit in Generations too
The physics were really off, rolling was completely broken and the spindash was overpowered

>mfw I knew it from day 1 since it was in the manual

Maybe they shouldn't call themselves Sonic Team

>ITT retards thinking Dimps worked on Pocket Adventure
It was SNK you fucking retards

I had a used cart.

I think still have it laying around. Not like I bothered to look up anything outside of the big coin locations.

I forgot about that one actually, pretty funny. Also oddly the trailer has Sonic 2's beta running animation in it.

How could anyone ever look at this and said this was okay?

The level design was not built around it

I still remember how pissed off I was when I saw Modern Sonic and those crappy graphics

Someone who was developing for phones.

Will Mania be good?

To be fair it hasn't just been the same exact people this whole time.

>classic sonic controls well
>classic sonic controls well
>classic sonic controls well

Please be bait. Having no momentum-based with physics, spindash being too broken, not being able to slide in a handrail properly, and loops and ramps not letting us to move freely is not what makes Classic Sonic great. Even Sonic 4 has better gameplay than Classic Sonic's gameplay. If you want it, play the old Genesis Sonic games instead.

Not only did it have shit gameplay, it was also one of the only games in the series to have crappy music. Not counting Sanic Chranicles, it's the worst soundtrack Sonic has ever had. Episode II was better, but not by a wide margin.

I love how Sonic Retro was able to tell the physics were fucked up with that one clip.

It looks better than the games it's emulating

>Even Sonic 4 has better gameplay than Classic Sonic's gameplay
No it doesn't, there's a limit to how much you can bullshit nigger

Besides Classic Sonic at the very least does control a bit better than Modern Sonic in that game because at least his jump isn't as floaty

I think it will be.

Actually a lot of people(including me) could
I remember Endri from Sonicretro having early access to Sonic 4 through a J-Tag 360 though...that shit was insane

>Even Sonic 4 has better gameplay than Classic Sonic's gameplay.

Wasn't the run animation added really late into the game's dev cycle? I remember when people were complaining about it and they saw the end result. I remember ruby trying to save face on the retro forums.

Good times.

At least, Sonic 4 didn't had the broken spindash and let us to move freely in loops and ramps.

What? Did I triggered someone here, just because I said something different from your opinions?

Classic Sonic's hardly a 1:1 approximation of the originals, but the gameplay is hardly bad. Your jumps preserve momentum properly and the levels are really engaging.

I just couldn't believe that so little of the game was changed between the leak and the delay.

>Sonic 4 didn't had the broken spindash
If you're gonna be contrarian, at least get your facts straight

Like it or not, the Genesis Sonic games are how it should be, they give you solid control over Sonic's movements, which is why Classic Sonic is better than Modern Sonic in Generations

>Sonic 4 didn't had the broken spindash
Yeah, it didn't.
We had the homing attack. You can easily build speed with it and in like, 2 fucking seconds, you're likely already in max speed.
>and let us to move freely in loops and ramps.
???
Are you implying that you COULDN'T do that in Generations? Because if you are, you're completely wrong. Also, the physics in Sonic 4 are so fucked up that you can pretty much go full Spiderman on those ramps and loops.

It did? I don't remember spindash in Sonic 4 being broken. It was pretty slow, just like the whole game.

Also, why am I being a contrarian? I am contrarian just because I have an opinion different from yours? Just because I'm disagreeing with you? Is disagreeing someone now considered to be contrarian? What the fuck are you talking about?

He's saying it's broken in the sense that it's almost useless since the air dash lets you build up speed better.

The fact you're so quick to the defense pretty much confirms you're being contrarian for the sake of (you)s.

Despite this gif the game is actually pretty good.

A generic codemonkey, by definition, can't create a game.

And how is having a close deadline means you put your worst people to work on it?

i never had Advance 2 physically desu

only Advance 3 when it was in stores and Advance 1 at gaystop

it was also Dimps' first Sonic title they've developed.

They probably just apply gravity when you're jumping.

You really need to drop your buzzword, your baseless assumption, and instead, explain to me why am I being "contrarian".

>Your jumps preserve momentum properly
Not really but it beats Sonic 4 at least

Not him but Dimps wasn't formed yet when Sonic Pocket Adventure was made.

Even though Dimps was later made out of a lot of former SNK devs, the credits between Pocket Adventure and the Advance games are actually quite different.

What's the problem?

Fuck your opinion, Classic Sonic is in no way more broken than 4 Sonic just because "muh op spindash", see .

Both preformed poorly trying to be like the classics, but Gens have 4 beat, it's simply seen as truth to a lot of people that played Gens over 4. Please don't come off like a fanboy over 4 if you seriously are being one.

No it wasn't you fucking retard
Dimps didn't work on this game

info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_Pocket_Adventure

SNK worked on it in co-operation with Sonic Team

Dimps was made from former Capcom devs not SNK ones

It was both.

Jun really phoned in on that soundtrack for that game too.
Episode II wasn't as bad though.

Had he ever been solely tasked woth a Sonic soundtrack before?

I'm not sure if he was phoning it in so much as he was out of his depth. There were also probably some pretty hard limits on what his songs should sound like.

Mostly Capcom ones

>Had he ever been solely tasked woth a Sonic soundtrack before?
No

yeah imo it doesn't need to adhere as much to sonic's physics as sonic does. It has other cool things to rely on like sparkster rockets.

I wonder if it's possible to make a patch that fixes most of Sonic 4's physics issues.

I know Ep. 2 is available for PC, but what about Ep. 1?

>goalposts

>muh goalpost meme

Then why even put the ramps and loops and shit in there?
It's fucking pointless

You can't patch out an entire engine
And besides Sonic 4 has more problems than that like terrible level design, forced gimmicks with tails in ep 2(which was even worse than ep 1) etc.