So why did the west essentially abandon dungeon crawlers and roguelikes? I'm not much of an anime/Japan guy...

So why did the west essentially abandon dungeon crawlers and roguelikes? I'm not much of an anime/Japan guy, but at least the Japanese still actually make this genre and they get boxed releases.

They also sell like crap, that's why they stopped doing it.

>So why did the west essentially abandon dungeon crawlers and roguelikes?

Because they got gud and learned how to make more engaging and fun games.

Those old school dungeon crawlers were made back then because that was the extent of programing and coding at the time. Nowadays you're shit tier if all you can make is dungeon crawlers like that.

aren't Diablo and all the games like that dungeon crawlers?

The West hates fun and just wants to make "interactive" movies.

I have this downloaded on my vita
Is it good?

Isn't that largely due to advertising? Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games get high sales for Pokemon spinoffs and I recall seeing commercials for it.
That's the problem for me. Modern RPGs are usually just action games with stats. I at least felt like there was an actual sense of progression in most Wizardry games since they aren't based around level scaling so you can always beat anything no matter where you go.
Hack and Slash games have a bit in common with roguelikes, but they're not really the same genre.
yes

Originally dungeon crawlers were sold based on the experience and the exploring a dungeon aspect. It was basically the best way to play D&D. Along came Baldur's Gate, which did all that (complete with official D&D rules!) but could do it with an overhead view. Baldur's Gate turned out to be popular, so everyone ended up aping it and eventually the "dungeon crawling" turned into overhead view, rather than first-person view.

Japan still enjoyed the first person dungeon crawling aspect, but didn't really know why the games were made or why a lot of people enjoyed them. So they merged the first-person aspect with their typical JRPG grinding system, which meant that they were still first-person but rather than mazes to explore and puzzles to overcome to get through, you just needed to get into a bunch of combats until you outleveled the boss. The Japanese especially liked this because, much like Dragon Quest, you could spend a lot of focus on still or mostly-still character and enemy images, which meant you could make them look very pretty. The west was more focused on animating stuff and later, making 3D models.

>west abandon roguelikes
What

A better question is why normalfags complain about "anime" art, but never cry about how lazy indie pixelshit games look.

>never cry about how lazy indie pixelshit games look
You already do that enough for all of us.

>but rather than mazes to explore and puzzles to overcome to get through, you just needed to get into a bunch of combats until you outleveled the boss
You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

>rather than mazes to explore and puzzles to overcome
Megami Tensei has this. Even Raidy had simple ones like "get this key to get this item to discover this boss's weakness"

Also, the only roguelikes made now are indie games, for the most part. Sure, there's a thriving community of guys making them on the internet, but you'll never see a big release from a company like Bethesda that's a traditional roguelike.

Only after a game becomes a meme on twitch will I ever do that.

This.

But to be fair I really miss old japanese rpg character art. So many games with ugly moe sameface these days. I miss the days when I had a dog man, a sexy healer, a sorceress milf, and kid in every party. 10 sexy healer types in every game and I feel like somethings missing.

Of course, there are perks. Pic related.

>endless supply of CoD clones
>good programming
>fun and engaging

>dog man
What game has a kobold party member?

Breath of Fire.

Rouge Galaxy maybe?

I just want more dungeon crawlers in the style of Dungeon Master or Grimrock with pseudo realtime combat, instead of Wizardry style RNG turn based encounters.

Japan objectively has good taste in DRPGs is why.

>The West whining about muh 1st person view and muh complicated dungeons and muh traps and muh story mode
>Fucking helped EO Untold 1 and 2 sell decently while Japan demanded proper EO

>muh story mode
What? Don't most dungeon crawlers have some sort of overarching story?

You mean Japan has become very efficient at pumping out games for genres that require next to no production values.

There are people that refuse to play EO because of party creation and customisation. I'm not even joking. They demand fixed characters with fixed stats and skills.

Hasn't that always been the case though?

So game must me big budget to have decent gameplay?

Because gaijins only want to shoot at things or walk while collecting notes thrown at random.

Legend of Grimrock 2 was the last one that really hit my itch for a good Western dungeon crawler. I hope they continue to improve and make good games but the West doesn't really care for DRPGs anymore.

There's nothing wrong with that.

I don't like dungeon crawlers, but not for any of the reasons you mention.

imho, they're just watered down rpgs. The most basic of basic. And I guess that's ok if you're really into turn based combat, but it gets old pretty quickly for me.

Japan sure does know how to crank 'em out though.

>Games must have bloated budgets or have to be AAA to be good

A genre starts to run stagnant if no one bothers to try and raise the bar.

Whatever happened to badass Japanese art?

Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest stand out in particular. Clearly anime inspired, but unique and interesting.

Why cant we have that anymore?

WAIT A MINUTE, THAT CARD

That's what I like about dungeon crawlers, usually they’re RPGs with the fat trimmed down. You just make a party and go around killing shit in tile based dungeons.

Because legit japanese basement dwellers demand moe style art.

Not all Japanese people draw the same

>tfw dungeon crawler connoisseur
>tfw owning both vita and 3ds
>tfw played through many titles already but still have a huge DRPG backlog to play through

It's so fucking comfy man, anyone else know this feel?

I feel you. I pretty much pick up every DRPG that gets translated for both devices. But something keeps drawing me back to DT2. I need Dungeon Travelers 2-2 fucking soon.

>Ressentiment
Good taste.

>DRPG where you cant make your own party

More power to you. I'm just not a fan.

But on the other side, it is true that many rpgs are distancing themselves from actual rpg format and become action games. Which is ok in some cases, there are some good action rpgs. But its the same problem. Too much of the same thing makes it less appealing.

I guess that's just it. Still, I miss it. Especially FF art. So cool, always admired the use of color.

True and there is some art which puts an appealing spin on moe/contemporary anime style art. I just wish yhere were more games with this approach. If there are I'm not aware. Seems mostly in manga.

That shit depressed me to read, but was good stuff

this guys art is so fucking ugly
everyone has an underbite
even the girls that are supposed to be attractive

>contemporary anime style
???

OP are you picking up Coven and Labyrinth of Refrain?
Apparently it's one of the best games NIS has come out with in a while, I'm glad they could find their niche on the Vita.

>9 character parties

How does this even work? Do rearguards all perform the same actions together?

So it'll receive a PS4 port then, right?

>22, criticize people for playing only games with cute girls
>26, have come to this myself
I blame life

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe you control the Vanguard characters, and the Rearguard characters provide support. Something similar was in Cladun x2 but it was much more passive.
Who knows? The Witch and the Hundred Knight was a special case since it came out near the end of the PS3's lifetime, so I'm not sure if NIS is willing to port everything to the PS4.

English when

That would be more modern style.

I meant more like pic related.

Simplistic without much variation between mediums or characters. Occasionally there will be a unique twist on the style which is welcome.

How was Stranger of Sword City regarded anyhow? It just kinda came and went as far as discussion goes.

It was like every other Experience game.

It's a decent dungeon crawler, but it doesn't do a whole lot to distinguish itself outside of the art. I actually ended up having more fun with Demon Gaze; they really didn't do anything to improve the formula.

Girl on the right clearly a monk.

Nope she's a warrior

The fuck are you on? There are thousands of roguelikes on steam. Don't give me any of that "PEECEE GAYMEN" shit either, you can find loads of good ones that would work on a notebook.

Who said I hate PC gaming when this was originally a PC genre? I'm referring to how they used to be a big deal, but are now, as you put it, relegated to Steam and done by small devs no one has heard of.

So?

How can you tell?

Because I've beaten the game twice

Because when you try to balance the genre between the people who want a smooth beatable experience and the hardcore who want to bang their head against obtuse puzzles for 100+ hours it turns out there's a lot more people who just want a simple rpg that tells an engaging story but plays itself.

At that point why not travel more down that path and just make a modern rpg that has wider appeal and is going to sell more? The market is there for dungeon crawls to do decently, but there are more profitable RPG genres that develops would rather go for.

Might as well only make the most profitable genre, then, which in Japan, is just making more crappy digital only scrolling shooters.

So what are some good hentai DRPGs besides Raidy?

>imho, they're just watered down rpgs. The most basic of basic
What you consider basic, I consider refined. A shitty boring and annoying story has been cut out and all that extra energy has been invested in making fast and strategic combat systems.

I wish we could have j drpg with animated enemies like old crawlers like lands of lore and not static images.
Or a new ultima underworld ( I now there is one in the making but its not a crawler just third rate western rpg)
Or a professional Demise. With servicable graphics and UI.

So EO after EO3? Full 3D enemies there.

A game that has to rely on unnecessary lewd sections and slutty little girls to sell their game can never be good.

It's just the icing on the cake senpai.

Its not that strategic, its super dull right now.
Turn 1
Protect, charge, charge, buff, buff.
Turn 2
Protect, attack, attack, nuke, heal.

Repeat Turn 2 until buffs expire and start at 1

This. Why do normies assume games with cute girls can't be good?

They think it's all we're here for.

I actually enjoy more fixed characters ala Dungeon travelers 2. It has more characters than classes in EO.

DT2 wasnt bad but I just cant enjoy games like these when you cant make your own parties. Especially in the case of DT2 when the characters were just so unlikeable.

Games with cute girls that really are shit in every department do exist, therefore all of them are shit.

>we will never go back to the time where anime looked badass and wasn't pandering towards weeaboos, pedophiles and people's fetishes

wtf i hate anime now

>using kabashit as an positive example

Please die.

We're talking about artstyle you dumb nigger, not quality of the anime itself. Kabaneri's objectively one of the best looking anime of the decade regardless of how bad it was.

The icing that is censored*

I always wanted to try that game.

But every time I watch a video they are fighting lemons, apples sugar cubes. So fucking stupid.

>you will never give yukina a "positive example"

Fuck you, you are just a hater and dont get how funny it is. Go back to Legend of Shitrock and Etrian Cuntsays.

>using kabashit as an positive example
>only good part in kabashit

I'm not a fan of the enemy art either, but it is a really solid dungeon crawler.

Why the fuck don't we have animal party members in JRPGs anymore?

You cant waifu animals without being a creepy animal fucker. Thats the only reason. The current JRPG economy DEMANDS that all characters are somehow marketable as waifus/husbandos to the otaku audience that is the major investor in the genre in Japan. That is the harsh truth.

Then normies need to start buying some games at full price

Am I the only fucking on who always hated Amano's art? Most of the time it just looks like a garbled mess.

indie games. ever heard of em n00b?

Normies dont care about the genre, no matter how hard you want them to buy them.

I finished it the other day. Solid 70 hours, surprisingly engaging story for a DRPG. Best thing NIS has produced in a long time.

You have 5 'coven' slots and each coven can have 1-3 front line fighters. So you can have up to 15 frontliners. Sometimes you want to stick with a 1 or 2 slot coven for some slots because they provide stat bonuses for the character in it, though.

Aside from DT what are some decent current-ish crawlers?

I have Elminage Gothic but heard it was kinda mediocre, haven't really checked out the Vita library yet.

This is Sup Forums. You are only allowed to like AAA games.

Don't expect any game to really touch the suite of content of DT. Just wait for DT2-2

I haven't played Gothic, but Elminage Original was pretty good.

I liked it, but he's been getting worse as he got older, which isn't surprising.

STING is dead
One of the few remaining non pandering JRPG devs reduced to making Waifu games

>STING is dead
A real shame. I'm still hoping they pick up the Dept Heaven games again.

>remaining non pandering JRPG devs
Almost all of their games have waifu pandering, user. Only Baroque was 0% pandering it was mostly fujopandering in that one.

The game gets hardcore as fuck later on. It's worth it

this senpai, currently playing through dungeon travelers 2 since it was on sale a couple of weeks back. i'm so hooked, completed story mode and am currently doing the IMMENSE post game. what a treat this game is. dungeon travelers 2-2 will get localized, r-right?

Most people would rather play CoD than a old school turn based dungeon crawler. And yes, CoD has way better programing. It's much harder to code CoD than a old school dungeon crawler.