Why do Zero Escape fans seem to have such a complex about Dangan Ronpa?
I've seen this in several places, Zero Escape fans getting very touchy about the quality of the ZE series, and utterly lambasting the DR series for having childish writing, terrible twists, and horrid gameplay.
I enjoy both, but even Ultra Despair Girls was a more satisfying experience than the Ever17 retread that was VLR and the mess that was Zero Time Dilemma.
>Why do Zero Escape fans seem to have such a complex about Dangan Ronpa?
So it's a complex if I don't agree with your opinion?
That's not a complex buddy.
Why can't people enjoy both? Dangan has a more juvenile appeal with more memorable characters while ZE focuses more on the twist and the buildup for it.
While we're at it, I finished Ever17 the other day and god it was so much better than the pile of shit that was ZTD. It feels more unpolished than Uchikoshi's later shit but it was also a whole lot more enjoyable by the end.
The Zero Escape series is just a poor man's Danganronpa
More the animosity in how those opinions are expressed, and the tendency to *really* downplay the quality of Danganronpa.
>chicken sandwiches
Though I didn't play ZTD yet so I don't know how it fares
Ever17 actually did get me super into chicken sandwiches for a while. I need to buy these again sometime.
>captcha: Click on the pictures of sandwiches
>More the animosity in how those opinions are expressed
Example?
> and the tendency to *really* downplay the quality of Danganronpa.
Again , disagreeing with your opinion is not a complex. Danganronpa is good and the second one really tries to make itself worth the money by being more than just a VN but the writing is saturday morning cartoon tier. AIs that are perfect replicas of people, virtual reality, extremely advanced robots.
Hell dude, the game doesn't even take itself seriously. In DR2 Monokuma even has a line that's just the writer lazily defending his bad writing. He says something like "Why do people need an answer for where the Monobeats came from? Why can't some people just accept it's a game." He's a bad writer and he knows. He's included other similar jabs at his own writing but he makes the classic mistake of thinking that pointing out your stories shortcomings means they go away and no one else can call you out on it.
No. It's lazy writing.
ZE is bad writing but in a different way. In a "I didn't plan out my time travel story well enough" way. It's more forgivable though since there really isn't a time travel story out there that you couldn't argue has holes in the logic.
i enjoy both. ze tries to be serious, danganronpa doesn't, both kinds of approach amuse me a lot.
but who are we kidding, this will be thighs thread in a minute anyway
I like DR because of the setting but the trials are just boring because everyone is just too stupid to solve the murder on their own or make any worthy contribution. The two characters that aren't dumb basically say "Tell them Naegi/Hinata!". I usually end up skipping most of the trials because of that, the minigames are also annoying as fuck. The writing is definitely stupid and it is amazing how any character would be able to get away with murder if they just killed someone during the night and fucked off, no need to pull an amazing mastermind trick, forge fake witnesses and put false evidence to throw them off like those idiots usually do, they don't have any means of forensics, all you need to do is literally KILL THE PERSON AND LEAVE AS QUICK AS POSSIBLE THEN THROW THE MURDER WEAPON SOMEWHERE SAFE LIKE YOUR OWN ROOM
ZE series were much more coherent and had more satisfying plot twists overall. I am still playing ZTD and yeah, I hate what they did to the series, I don't feel like I am playing ZE at all especially since I can just escape during the first 5 minutes by picking the blue coin. What fueled me to play the game before was finding a way to escape with everyone, as I can do that from the start I really don't have any motivation to keep playing, especially because this game is confusing as fuck and I can't tell which timeline I am at since HAHA MEMORY LOSS YOU DON'T REMEMBER WHO YOU VOTED FOR. Pretty shit game to be quite honest even though the gameplay, escape puzzles and decision games are great.
Neither game has memorable characters. Whats ZE DOES do is make characters that matter.
Please tell me what the point or character arcs do Yasuhiro, Chihiro and Asahina have in DR1.
Please tell me what points or character arcs Nagito, Sonia and Mahiru have on DR2.
Practically non-existant. That's awful for a "character-centric" story.
Also "juvenile" approach doesn't mean that the game has to treat you like a retard.
I haven't finished VLR but the narrative is MILES tighter. In fact I didn't even like 999 that much but the narrative was interesting enoug for me to try out VLR, and VLR actually cares to weave the first game into the second ones plot. All the questions asked by DR1 to DR2 are just given a middle finger until the end, and even then not all of them are answered.
You should finish the game before saying this. VLR doesn't answer any of 999's questions.
999 is the only Zero Escape game I'd call great (and is better than anything in the DR series as well, a phenomenal game).
Danganronpa 1 is behind but not bad, way better than 2, DR2 is about equal to VLR, and ZTD is at the bottom alongside Despair Girls.
Because danganronpa is going to have more sequels while ZE fans will be stuck forever with ZTD's plot fuckness.
The sad thing about Danganronpa is that it would've been perfect as a single entry. They open the door at the end, fade to white, you decide what happens next. Hope or despair, your interpretation. They didn't need to fuck it up by giong back to it again and again.
Honestly, ZTD brought down the whole series for me. 999 and VLR built up all of this potential, and ZTD wasted it all with some of the worst gimmicks and twists I've experienced in fiction. The characters act like idiots throughout, and the ones that returned don't even feel like the same people.
All of the alien time travel bullshit totally killed my suspension of disbelief.
Like, Uchikoshi couldn't even come up with a better explanation than, say, a machine that harnesses the morphogenetic field in such a powerful way that its construction in the future caused it to retroactively exist throughout time. Nope, fuck that, alien photocopier.
What annoys the fuck out of me is how they even bother making a sequel when they don't even do anything with 1's settings, it's just a cash-in of a mid-tier VN.
RIP my life :( Admittedly 999 doesn't raise many questions, it's self-contained.
>RIP my life :( Admittedly 999 doesn't raise many questions, it's self-contained.
Don't expect to find out anything about Ice-9 or Alice/ALL-ICE
It's difficult to boil it down to one word.
>Why do Zero Escape fans seem to have such a complex about Dangan Ronpa?
Because they butthurt Danganronpa has more fans and sold way more.
What happened was the Zero Escape series was doing bad due to its themes and presentation, which many of the fans thought were awesome and interesting (the Japanese shy away from gore and intensity of it, reportedly) and did poorly because of it. Danganronpa came out and evaded these issues due to Zero Escape's mistakes (ever wonder why it's heavily stylized?) despite having a weaker story, theme, and gameplay.
Both these games were from the same publisher and it felt like the budget for Zero Escape was shifted to Danganronpa removing the chance for a 3rd game even though it was promised to be a trilogy.
Why even bother putting Alice in there then? Why do so many sequels even do this?
It's... difficult to boil down into one word
Complex motives
They are jelly Danganronpa is actually successful meanwhile they had to beg for their last game to be made.
They are also usually normies that hate things that are "too japanese" like Danganronpa
After ZTD they can't act smug anymore.
Like both series by the way
Red herring. That's why I just spoiled it for you. Her character plays an (admittedly small) role in the story it's just completely unrelated to Ice 9 and ALL ICE which never get brought up again aside from Tenmyouji saying "You must be ALL ICE" and her just going "Lol no".
She is the same person you see at the end of 999. It kinda actually devalues the ending of 999, removes the mystery.
Nagito was memorable. Just because you don't like him for some reason does not make him unmemorable.
DR can be a bit too animesque for some tastes. And yes, more so than 999
Partially because DR was PSP/Vita exclusive for a while, which is probably the single biggest shitposting magnet.
999 was a DS exclusive, VLR/VTD threads are full of people who say that 3DS version has the best gameplay.
It's just dog whistle console warring.
I played 999 and VLR before Danganronpa
Both have funny memes but I prefer the plot of DR. Only played ZE for the puzzles.
>DR
>Too animesque
The kick in ZTD is even more ridiculous, since they're not even on the moon.
Nagito is one of the few characters that manages to do that. I'd put him with Kyoko, Byakuya and Chiaki.
This is a game with THIRTY characters though, IF you only count the ones that are in the Killing Games themselves. Having like 6 relevant characters on a 30-man cast is pretty bad.
>not even on the moon.
have i missed something or are you wrong?
DR2:Case 5 alone is better than ZTD
Fight me faggots.
It's foremost a murder mystery game. By nature of the narrative, a good portion of the cast won't receive character development because they die.
So of course the characters that live to the end are going to receive much more development than those that die early on.
Sounds like you are just taking shit out of your ass.
Most people either enjoy both or are indifferent towards one or another, or both. If you don't realize that then I'm sorry for you.
Virtue's Last Reward takes place on the moon.
They aren't on the moon in the third game
Dangan Ronpa fails as a series because each game seems to have a different tone and Kodaka doesn't know if he wants the series to be a black comedy with some serious moments or an over the top comedy game with very little serious moments that make you care for what's going on.
DR, DR2 and AE all feel different from each other. I like ZE's consistency.
I like both, for different reasons. I can't compare them that easily.
>The kick in ZTD
oh, okay
i was temporarily too retarded to read
This doesn't need to be true. They made Chihiro a great character after her death, and is still a relevant character in 2.
>tfw you love both danganronpa and zero escape
don't get why people have to be salty
That's because his talent was too good to overlook when making the NWP storyline. Try to do the same with Hifumi
Are you sure about that? Both DR1 and DR2 felt tonally consistent to me. They were both very clearly grim suspense stories with a good amount of humour to make you like the characters. Admittedly AE took the series to a darker depth that previous entries hadn't delved to, but not in such a way as made it feel wildly out of place.
> mfw fucking amazon and aksys still hasn't shipped my watch...
Oh really? What "development" or plot involvement did Sonia, Akane, Yasuhiro, Soda, Toko and the other survivors had? In DR2 not even the protagonist himself is developed in any way, and in DR1 the only characters with any sort of arc are Kyoko and Byakuya, the other ones might as well be props for all they do to the story.
And no, the fact that is is a murder mystery does not excuse for anything. DR1 made me care who died on the first case, why couldn't it do that for the rest of the cases? The games also make it seem like it was some sort of shock to see the corpse of a character or to discover who the murderer was like if there were meaningful in any way, so even the games themselves don't agree with you.
The survivors don't have "much more development", they are just as static and uninvolved as the dead ones, I have no idea where are you getting htat idea.
>Why do Zero Escape fans seem to have such a complex about Dangan Ronpa?
>complex
I still don't know how AE got approved but its mere existence is hilarious.
>okay, time to make a spin-off to get money for V3
>sure Kodaka-senpai, so we go easy on the dark themes right ?
>no please include child rape and a diorama of dismembered dead people
>oh
Because Sup Forums seems to attract people who have a primarily salt-based diet, for some reason.
Many characters who live still get 0 development. They are one dimensional cut outs whose personality usually boils down to quirk 1, quirk 2 and I'm really good at whatever my talent is and will reference it randomly. Toko, Hagagure, Asahina, Sonia and Soda are all great examples and that's just the characters that lived till the end in both games.
The characters are bad and one dimensional bar a few exceptions.
It's like SMT and Persona, the cool people are the ones who enjoy both because they're both good series, or at least don't whine about the other.
But the SMT elitist can't handle the not so in depth game is more popular and shit post about it to ends of the earth.
Every case after the first in Dangan Ronpa 1 and 2
>Sucks that they're dead
>Moving on, let's pretend they didn't exist unless we need to vaguely reference them
For kids they sure get over things quickly.
OP is making this up. Most people who like one like the other. Even if they don't, it doesn't mena it's a complex or some conspiracy or some shit. Both games have genuinely polarizing element.
>Toko
wtf she had the biggest character development out of any character in the series
I can't imagine AE was much of a money-spinner was it? Given that it was a vita-exclusive spinoff of a relatively obscure Japanese series in a completely different genre that had one of the more in-depth plots of the series and actually required them to make and animate a bunch of 3D models, I would have thought it was the least profitable entry.
Oh boy a bait thread
can I join in?
Only due to AE. She was still a shit through and through in ending of DR1.
It is the least profitable entry, but it sold pretty well in Japan. Remember that the vita is alive and well there and also Danganronpa is more popular that you can imagine.
Pretty much, they could have done SO MUCH MORE with the setting and characters, but didn't do it for some reason. Ultimate skills seem to be generally useless as well; I can buy that a school would accept an "Ultimate Fanfic Writer" or "Ultimate Gamer" but what use is it to present to me with a skill if they never use it?
And before anyone tells me "it's for teens, don't take it so seriously" I've legit enjoyed fiction for teens before, and now that I'm 21 I enjoy children movies more than EVER. Not being in the target audience doesn't justify bad writing.
ON THE MEAT BONE
B-but I love both sagas.
Ok then explain it.
Maybe in AE but not in the original game which is what I was talking about. The biggest thing she does in the first game is be a red hearing. Her whole character in the first game is what I described. She's just a bunch of stereotypes brought to an extreme who has a laughably stupid and unrealistic depiction of dissociative identity order.
Also being able to refute ONE of those characters doesn't really prove me wrong, especially since you wouldn't let me include all the one dimensional characters who die in earlier cases even though making it to case 3 is plenty of time to be given development and actual characterization beyond a stupid gag that gets repeated every time they talk.
'Lol im weedman say something stupid about the occult then ask for money"
"Lol I am machine man. girls are hot i wanna bang sonia"
"I am a pair of brown tits, am stupid and will constantly derail trials with stupid comments and jumping to conclusions. I want to eat ____" Worst part is by leaving one blank you can't even tell who I'm talking about.
The serie sis fille dwith AWFUL characters. I still like it, the game makes up for it in other ways but you are kidding yourself if you don't think it's true.
I wonder what was going through the developers head when they came with with the idea that "let's make the last entry in the series the absolute worst one"
It must have been a conscious thing, because from the very first trailer ZTD looked like shit on every console. Nobody would actually look at it and say "This is good, let's keep going with it". I mean, even VLR was bad with that shitty CG, but it was at least tolerable because everything else was really good. I'm just sad man, I really am. I played 999 for hours and hours on end every day, then 100% all the files in VLR as soon as it came out on the 3DS, but I literally slept FIVE times while playing ZTD. the cutscenes are so boring and horribly animated. I can't even pay attention to what everyone's saying because I keep looking at the awfull movements and that I can SEE where the models joints are.
Are you unaware of the situation surrounding how ZTD got made?
Originally it was not going to get made at all.
>DR1
-There was a tragedy that killed most of the population
-Monokuma is a funny mascot character.
>VLR
-There was a tragedy that killed most of the population.
-Zero III is a funny mascot character, but an AI in a computer.
-Bracelets on the participants will kill them with a lethal poison in certain circumstances.
>DR2
-Monokuma is an AI.
-The game has an escape room in the style of zero escape.
-Game ends with WE WILL CREATE OUR OWN FUTURE WITH THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP
>ZTD
-Game ends with WE WILL CREATE OUR OWN FUTURE WITH THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP.
-Participants are periodically put to sleep by the bracelets, which also display the time.
-One of the participants, who turns out to be a villain, is in a wheelchair and does not speak. They view everything through camera feeds.
-There is a secret extra participant that is conveniently off screen, a trick allowed by the cinematic nature of the camera angles
>DR3
-Participants all have bracelets that periodically put them to sleep. The bracelets also display the time.
-Bracelets administer a lethal poison in the circumstance that a rule is broken.
-One of the participants, who turns out to be a villain, is in a wheelchair and does not speak. They view everything through camera feeds.
-There are lots of cinematic camera angles, including many shots which are from the perspective of looking into a room from a hole in the roof. There is currently one participant unaccounted for...
You can't realistically like one series and hate the other. There's too much similar (and outright copied) between them and their creators are friends.
Those faggots cancelled my order outright. I went nuclear on Amazon, but Aksys was kind enough to give me the digital game for free.
I know this is bait, but it's really good bait, because it's not wrong. Maybe on "enthralling narrative" since that's subjective. I'm way more enthralled on AT for exemaple, than DR. Also on intelligence required, I'd exchange both as well, but I guess that's the point of the bait.
I think you forgot that the game was made on a shoestring budget with a fundraiser and approval from literally the pit of miracles, with a small ass team and a super short timeframe.
>Game ends with WE WILL CREATE OUR OWN FUTURE WITH THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP
You're a fucking dumbass. This is absolutely not the message of DR2. The message is "fight for your own sake only, and strive to get yourself the future you deserve by stepping up instead of letting others decide for you"
Yes, and? Those guys knew they had no fucking budget, and their games might not even see the light of the day, and they went with the most cost-inneficient way to present their game?
I think artstyle is enough to prefer one over the other.
And this copypasta is getting stale.
It's been updated this week since monaka pulled a delta
For all you know SpikeChunsoft wouldn't greenlight a VN. Uchi even said something that implied as much.