A visual novel is a game

A visual novel is a game.

No it isn't

Where's the gameplay?

A mouse is a horse

No they aren't. If I wanted to left click for hours on end I'd go play Diablo.

they can be if they contain gameplay and not just routes.

less than mobile games and those aren't accepted on Sup Forums
really makes you think

Decisions are gameplay. The player makes a decision that impacts the direction that the narrative will go.

In chess, the player makes a decision that impacts the board and the direction that the game will go.

Literally the exact same thing at a fundamental level

Literally everyone knows this except for a few obstinate retards on Sup Forums.

Not all visual novels have decisions

If there are no decisions, it is not a visual novel

Then why are they called visual novels?
A book isn't a game either

You're retarded kid, kill yourself.

If you can lose in the Visual Novel then it's a game.
Only criteria needed.

This...Is...A...Game...

...

Visual Novels are as much of a game as Tell Tale Games and we call those games too

>In chess, the player makes a decision that impacts the board and the direction that the game will go
chess is a game because there's competition, there's no competition in a VR, not a game

Yes.

Games do not require a competition. They merely require an objective, rules and interactivity

Theres more gameplay to the tell tales then just a visual novel

WHO THE FUCK CARES
YOU'RE LITERALLY DISCUSSING DEFINITIONS WITHOUT GIVING DEFINITIONS
WORDS ARE USED FOR COMMUNICATING IDEAS, JUST AGREE ON WHAT YOU CALL A GAME FOR THE DURATION OF A SPECIFIC CONVERSATION AND DON'T ATTACH ARBITRARY VALUE TO YOUR DEFINITION

>Objective: Read the words
>Rules: Read the words in the correct order
>Interactivity: Move your eyes around the pages, turn the pages.

Satisfies the criteria let's get our shit on steam

rude.

Interacting with a book doesn't alter its ending

...

>objective, rules
both of which VNs don't have, since they have leave no room open for gameplay

VNs not game

>He doesn't know there are books with different endings

Them books are some good vidya games

Give me one good reason why a text based video game is not a video game.

Choose your own adventure books ARE games.
They're not VIDEO games but they do fit the definition of a game.

...

A book is a music video.

It does it you tear the last page out

Sequel about rapefugees when?

Three Sisters' Story is not Zork.

VNs have decision points and flags to alter the story. That is gameplay.

Are choose your own adventure novels games?

No visuals.

No, they're not games. They're books. The authors don't consider them games. Nor do scholars. One of the courses I took discussed them in a bit more depth, they're considered a modern form of literature, specifically (typically) children's literature

Arguing about definitions of words on Sup Forums should be illegal.

that's interactivity, not every interactivity is gameplay

>tfw the west has a bad idea of VN's because the only stuff that makes it over here is shit

Where the fuck is Muramasa, NECRO, and so on? Why am I stuck with Nekopara and similar junk?

Uncharted 4 is a game.

yeah i don't understand the significance of arguing this kind of thing, whether VNs are games or not, you can discuss them on Sup Forums anyway. who gives a shit what you define them as.

But that's you creating your own rules. That's you creating a game out of the book, rather than books being inherently a game

What are the benefits of classifying VNs as games?

According to Sup Forums
>Any game with cutscenes is a movie and therefore shit
>Visual Novels are games

of course they are

Interactivity that alters an outcome is gameplay

People use "visual novel" for things that have dialog boxes and cartoon girls in them, even if they're clearly interactive games.

>calling TellTale products games

/thread

>Interactivity that alters an outcome is gameplay

Man, our standards have dropped quite a lot.

Depends on the genre of VN desu senpai

if its a game then why are the words different colors? Checkmate

>all of Sup Forums has been a video game
Is moot the greatest game dev of all time?

Chongs are not humans.

...

>that was gamergate
guess i was gamergate and didn't know

Decisions that alter an outcome is the fundamental structure of all gameplay

Even pure 'video game' games like tetris and pacman follow that fundamental concept

So choose your own adventure books are now games? Good to know. Gonna make a thread asking which goosebumps game is the best.

Chess requires skill specific to the game.

Visual novels do not. They're obstinate guessing. You could make an RNG bot and get through the entire thing.

>if you don't like the """"games"""" i like you're gamergate
great

And you can get the twitch comments section to play pokemon
what's your point

Poor Dennis getting whacked with shoes, that shit wouldn't fly these days.

You can also make an RNG bot and get through pokemon

only if they cheat with stupid modes.

No, that was a large percentage of the market that actually buys games and DLC. I hate these arrogant clod faggots that attempt to make it sound like their shitty emo Twine CYOAs are somehow advancing the medium, as a mask for the fact they're merely looking for the biggest payoff for the most minimal amount of effort. Whoever wrote that disingenuous pile of drivel should blow what's left of their pretentious brains out.

Clicking "NEXT NEXT NEXT NEXT NEXT" then making a decision every 5 minutes of overly long dialogue is not gameplay, you fag.

VNs are for fapping, not gaming. If more of their creators understood this, they'd probably be more successful. Now, fuck off.

Not sure about that, but I love Zero Escape and Danganronpa :) those are my only two experiences with such games.

Current day gamergate = everyone the sanfran journo clique has a problem with.

But they are.
In fact 30 years ago rpgs were words on a computer asking you questions that would develop a story.

>Clicking "NEXT NEXT NEXT NEXT NEXT" then making a decision every 5 minutes of overly long dialogue is not gameplay, you fag.

It OBJECTIVELY is though. Just because you subjectively don't like it doesn't invalidate this fact.

how funny, that's zero escape's creator in the OP :D

Is a novel a game?
No
Is a visual novel a game?
No
Why?
It is a novel that visually shows the "story" with some jap ass cartoons. That has branching direction but only for the purpose of going through it again and making it worth the money, else it can be a fucking slide show for all you care.

but VN are games...
No, they are not games. Its just a good way to read a novel, especially for people who can't paint a world from words alone. That is all it is, it isn't bad for not being a game. There is nothing wrong with it at all. It just isn't a game. No big deal.

the difference is that VNs are ever so slightly more open-ended. many have stat-tracking systems on top of the choose-your-own-adventure formula, making them more like very bad, rigid RPGs than literature

A VN is to RPGs as the rail shooter is to shooters in general

Visual novels attract autists, that's for sure

Why is this shit the thing that you "VNs ARE GAMES, HURRHURR" the only thing you faggots fall back on? Telltale usually has actual gameplay elements and failstates, even if most are usually just QTEs. VNs don't. Fuck off with that argument.

telltale games are shit tho

No, it doesn't. It makes it interactive, that's it. Does voting on American Idol make it a video game? You're technically making a decision that effects the outcome. It's no different. Heck, the losing contestant, or "player" even has a failstate.

I don't disagree, but Telltale games aren't VNs either.

Visual Novels are e-picture books.

People insist on calling it a game because they're complete shit, and without latching themselves to the novelty of the newest entertainment medium they're absolutely unremarkable.

American Idol IS a game. Voting contributes to that game, but it's the contestants who are players rather than the people at home voting

Game != video game

a game requires player input
if a VN is a game then a book is a game as well
many VN don't have decisions

Why? The wolf among us was great, the walking dead has a nice story and the new batman game was mediocre.

Why are they bad?

Who cares? It's semantics. They might as well be because all the designated places to talk about them on this site are awful.

Some VNs are games but a vast majority of them lack enough interactivity to be considered a 'game'.

There are of course 'VNs' like Ace Attorney, Hotel Dusk: Room 215, or Zero Escape where you have a much higher level of interactivity than most VNs. AA is a better example because it doesn't really have any other gameplay that isn't just talking to people or selecting items, ZE has the Escape the Room style mini-games and Hotel Dusk: Room 215 is usually considered an Adventure Game instead of a VN. Though AA is undeniably a VN with extremely light adventure elements. Is AA considered not a video game by most people, even though it's extremely linear? No, in fact I don't know anyone who has argued that AA isn't a video game.

This is because AA has 2 things most visual novels lack:

>Constant interactivity
>A regular failstate in addition to 'bad endings'

The whole 'oh VNs are games because you can make choices in them!' is lacking because in actuality, most VNs have very little choices. In fact, you can play a Visual Novel for several hours without ever running into a decision. This means for long stretches of time, in excess of several hours, the player is literally doing nothing but watching the screen. They don't need to press any buttons, remember anything, or click their mouse unless they want to get through the text faster. And then when the rare moment comes where the game asks for their input arrives, their interactivity lasts half a milisecond.

Meanwhile, in AA, the player more consistently has input and interaction. Even though the story is linear, it still feels more engaging than a regular VN because the added interactivity creates that magical buzzword of IMMERSION. You feel like you are actually solving a murder case and winning a court trial rather than watch some bloke do it. This is why most VNs/Anime need a bland protagonist because it's the only way for the audience to self insert as them fucking their waifu, and not feel like a cuck.

[cont]

Are Zero Escape and Danganronpa visual novels? They get classified as point and click adventure on steam kek.

zero escape has some (far and few between) puzzle sections so it's not entirely cutscene like some VNs

>call something a novel because it's a fucking book
>people think that it's a game
LOL

Any good VN on PC?
They kind of get buried under the crap on steam.

>a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
>especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
>competitive
>decided by skill, strength, or luck.

books are not games

>few and far between
It's a little more prominent than that

Both have pointing and clicking so it's not technically wrong
Zero Escape has a lot of branching paths so decisions become gameplay (sometimes the player is required to remember things like a password from one timeline to then use it in another), plus the escape room gameplay is literal gameplay with puzzle solving

Danganronpa has Ace Attorney style trials where the player has to present evidence to point out contradictions. It's also got a friendship simulator style minigame (you choose which classmade to spend time with and get cutscenes based on that) but it's still a linear game without branching paths

This is the best VN.

>call something visual because it has visuals
>people think it's a fucking book

choose you own adventure book != video game

THUGGERY

Arguing about labels and definitions must me fun.

>Lounging in a full suit and tie

>books can't have pictures
>implying implications

Check the VN general on /vg/ a lot of VN don't never get official translations.