Competitive

>Competitive

What a joke
Name a "competitive" game less balanced then Overwatch

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Melee.

>tier list
>tier is based on usage
>not based on actual performance

that list is dumb and you should kill yourself.

Pokemon.

>competitive Overwatch

That's the only true joke being made here.

Mahvel

So this list is telling me that heroes that are used a lot need to be nerfed?
Well, okay.

>suddenly lucio needs a nerf
His ult sucks ass.

Remove support classes.

Not as bad as Roadhogs.

What, did they buff the robomunk?

Lucio has been mandatory every day since launch. IMO the problem isn't so much that he specifically needs a nerf so much as other support characters need to be reworked so they're more viable.

FPBP

so this is another attempt from Blizzard forcing a fun casual game into competitive?

The only really good thing about him is his speedbuff.

>only 4 healers to choose from
>in a game that absolutely requires any competent team to have healer, preferrably two
>one healer recieves a huge buff, another a nerf to the only useful ability, both in a single patch
At this rate two S-tier spots will always be a pair of healers tbqh.

all fighting games

It's built for eating other ults and it's great at it. Although transcendence is probably better at that now.

Sure it is boyo, that's why the pro's always use him right? Just for the speed buff :^)

This list is retarded. It's based entirely around pick rate and nothing else.

Nothing is weighted by how well that Hero did, if the team won or lost, etc.

>Just for the speed buff :^)
Yes.

It's gone in like 3 seconds, it barely helps.

>It's based entirely around pick rate and nothing else

Do you even know how tier list work?

A while ago, yes.

I really don't even see how you could "balance" Lucio without making him useless either. The only thing I could think of is cutting his healing speed slightly and making his E a bit longer on cool down?

Either way I would like to see the other supports buffed, Ana still feels so damn weak despite having fun tools.

Which healer was needed?

Don't mind that AoE passive heal. You know, the only one in the game.

It's rather slow healing. Try to heal a tank with it. You need ages without the buff.

Hanzo needs an escape option
Bastion needs his shields back
Torbs turret should just automatically be level two


also why they buffed zenyatta so much is stupid. all he needed was the hp, not the sonic fast ult

The reason why he's used so much is his buffs are passive and an aura. Just know when to press E and you're healing up to 200 health per second, and since we're talking about competitive we're talking about players who know how to work as a team and don't just go off on their own to be le epic genji flanker like 90% of pub tards. Mercy and Ana have to choose between healing and doing damage, Zenyatta can only heal one at a time and has to be in line of sight, Symmetra can't heal at all. Lucio is by far the best support because his buffs are entirely passive means means he can still bounce around actually contributing to the fight instead of being a healslut.

Pretty much. He's the only one who does what he does and other supports need to be buffed to make him more situational instead of mandatory. Maybe lower the buff radius a bit but that's it.

God no just most of them

SF4 and older versions of Guilty Gear were generally better balanced than this.

>Bastion needs his shields back

God no.

>these people who hate overwatch follow it so hard they know our meta

I love it, I really do.

Lucio has to be in Los as well.

Do you?

They're generally based around performance, in addition to other factors, not just "This guy was picked a lot".

Who gives a shit if Winston was chosen in 50% of the matches if the team that had him lost all the time.

That would be like basing an NFL Player's performance solely on how much time they spent on the field.

Yeah but that doesn't matter as much for him as Zenyatta because it's passive and AoE. With Zen you have to actively reapply Harmony; with Lucio you just need to move a bit, or wait for the other guy to move.

Hanzo's damage seems really high too, unsure why he's bottom tier. Same with Soldier.

Bastion and Torb are both pretty much stationary with is brutal in this game.

>unsure why he's bottom tier.
Projectile based weapon: Unreliable
He's supposed to be a defender and dies quickly to any flanker.

are you a console player or a low rank? because bastion needs his shields, hes useless with people that know what they are doing

Don't know if you were joking, but it was Mercy due to her ult spam.

>Competitive

That was the most necessary nerf ever though. I would buff her pistol a little though, make it more like D-Vas.

Trade offs. I'd rather have a near topped off team than a full replenished tank.

Remember when Zenyatta was 0% used? What the fuck went wrong.

TF2

They actually seem to be actively trying to see who can make their game worse

Mercy's pistol is already better than D.Va.

Wow so the most serious competitive team consistently wins! What a dumb competitive game xDDD Wins should be completely random and the game should be randomly won! am i right my Sup Forums bros? heck yeah!

You do realize a team consistently winning indicates that the game is a good competitive game?

Torb needs his turrets reworked. Level 1 deploys fast and should be a bit more offensive/mobile. Level 2 is meant for turtling.

And hes too strong in pubs. Shields would break it. Only a minority cares about competitive.

>Wow so the most serious competitive team consistently wins
You do realize that envyus literally aimbots

Like there's piles of evidence for this.

He even got banned from playing titanfall back when that was relevant

It's not that they're winning, it's that blizzard doesn't give a single fuck about hackers IF they're one of their precious competitive teams

The Widowmaker bodyshot nerf was the most important thing to happen to Zenyatta.

Soldier got nerfed awhile ago. His spread is big. And Mcree steals his role as the snipe/hitscan priority hero.

>I really don't even see how you could "balance" Lucio without making him useless either.
Slow down or remove his self-heal so he's easier to eliminate.

Character's don't get tired, user. Why would I switch out Lucio unless someone else is going to play him?

I bet if you separated out NFL players by salary, you'd see a strong correlation to performance and salary.

The time used in tournament metric allows you to quickly form a tier list at a time when a patch rolls in every other week. Under the assumption that teams will only play viable and good characters in tournament play, the most played character is the that most people agree to be vital and good for the team

Not when they use the most overpowered heroes all the time you fucking retard.

>TF2
>Less balanced than Overkike

What a fucking joke. TF2 takes far more skill and has a more serious dedicated community. There's actual fucking rocket jumping in it and playing a soldier takes actual skill. There's no aimbot "press Q to win" shit like in OW.

Overwatch is a casual moba game with fps elements while TF2 is an actual team based fps game.

Yeah, McCree's damage is just right and someone with solid aim could drill headshots and make him a monster, soldier can just kinda spam here and there.

That is actually smart as fuck.

Removing his self heal seems like way too severe of a nerf IMO. Maybe make it have a delay like Mercy's?

wait what pharah in F tier, widow in F tier ?

Who the fuck made that list ?

I'll admit that they are characters that require at least a little bit of skill to be played, but if you can direct hit, or quickscope headshots consistently, then you are unstoppable with either of them.

Ults ruined the game.
Prove me wrong.
go on, try

Here's the video that the dude made for this tier list btw.
youtube.com/watch?v=ggXYEdu5xns

The reason why it is pick rate over overall performance is because if no one uses that hero at all. Then there is no data on how well they would do in the overall meta.

Torb, Pharrah, and Bastion aren't used, because the overall meta says they are unreliable.

Torb and Bastion have a massive flaw with an highly cooperative team. They can all just say, "Bastion/Torb is on the left corner of the map." And then they'll all focus em down by someone switching to their counters.

Bastion should never ever stay in one spot and should always be changing positions to get flanks for 2 lives before switching

>Phara and 76 in the bin

Why are these two so low? They seem good in a vacuum. Is it McCree giving pharah a hard time?

TF2 taking more skill doesn't mean it's more balanced.

Though I didn't actually put much thought into it, you're right. TF2 has never had mccree/widowmaker levels of bullshit. They've just had demoman bullshit for 7 years and that's honestly not as bad.

But it doesn't create an accurate picture of which heroes are good, and which aren't. It just shows which were used a lot, which is as shallow as information can get.

Pharah gets pooped on by all of the current meta characters.

>Zen up with Lucio

What is the "competitive meta" revolving Zen? I love playing him and he's my most played hero after Lucio but I always thought people only considered him le risky glass canon. Is there some other role for him in those comps other than discording the shit out of everyone and saving people with tranquility?

Ana still has the highest HPS (90ps when scoped) and her grenade effect is huge, same with the sleep effect.
I think the things that hold her back the most are how small her "grenade" is and that full health allies can block shots.
Mercy has a similar issue with an ally stealing a tether or shift not going where you want but this is usually not as impactful as Ana's issues.

While I tend to out perform other healers(excluding ace zenyattas) but I can understand why pros don't play her.

Read the list next time its based on recent pro matches and the amount of times shes picked

which is zero

>There's no aimbot
Buildin' a sentry!

The tier list is based off of usage rate, not actual quality.

Pharah can get fucked easily by Zen + McCree. Widow hasn't been used since the bodyshot nerf.

mccree takes three shots to kill pharah, which can easily happen before pharah can even drop down from a jump after realizing she's getting hit

The entire competitive scene revolves around the fact that there are certain heroes easy to play and do well with, and those heroes directly counter most of the fucking cast.

Pharah is legitimately useless in a comp team with one or two McCrees.

Competitive players, as in the ones that actually go to fucking tournaments you moron.

Zen is an amazing secondary support and safe pick for nearly any comp after the buffs. He has a decent heal, discord orb is OP as shit, and his ult is good now and is great for panic situations.

Still has the problem with having too many counters. Reindhart, D.va with Mcree and Genji and a Ana ult or Zenyatta discord would absolutely destroy him too quickly.

And Overkike has a character that also builds a turret and it only goes up to level 2, requiring no effort to make it powerful.

Your point, shill?

They are the easiest characters to counter, tho. You don't even need to switch heroes, just start pressing A-D over and over again. Those two get fucked the most over by shuffling.

Also, McCree is what puts them in F tier.

He's the absolute best hybrid healer in the game. Mercy got replaced by him, because her ult is unreliable now. And Lucio is still the best healer in the game. But Zenyatta is the best all around hybrid.

Pharah is fucking garbage dude. All of the classes that are played non-stop destroy her.

It sucks because I like to play pharah.

>yfw Zen is nerfed to uselessness again and Mercy is buffed to OP levels

Eh... it's kinda obvious you're either underage or socially deficient. No one is going to take your opinions seriously the way you use words.

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It's not just that it isn't balanced, its that they went from one fully unbalanced layout to another.

>Mercy dropped from A to F
>Zenyatta jumped from F to S
>Tracer went from S to C
>Everyone else ins A and B dropped to C and D

Also Zarya is fucking SSS tier in the nippon lands, we just aren't using her right.

There's 2 webms that are spammed every thread in /owg/, I'll check if they're there right now.

You can probably just google around for the titanfall thing.

>Trying to stir up shit with TF2
user please, this is why we can't have a peaceful tf2 thread here anymore

Zarya is 100% in KOTH. So it is simple to say that she is absolute must on that map with Winston as tanks.

>Patched out Torbjorn's animation cancel with his hammer

Into the fucking trash. He was already ass but this just fucking kills him. Another hero dropped down to absolute useless tier, thanks Blizzard.

None of the other games with a healing station has a self-repairing/self-healing.
Lucio is one of the most annoying enemies to fight because not only does he have 5 bodyguards, but he's also regerating his health.

Have you ever tried to kill a Lucio as Pharah?
Miss once and he's right back to at least 90% of his health.

Atleast be happy you're playing the superior game and not waste all your time trying to play a game competitive that isn't even made to be.

What should they even do to fix him? His ult/gun are both fine.

Buff his lvl 2 turret?

>You can find it yourself

I agree. Although there are some heroes that would be complete trash without their ults such as D.va and Mercy.

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They probably want him to be viable without having to use animations cancels.

Of course, they have no clue how to actually do it, but that's another story.

that was exactly what the op was saying retard

Then take Mercy's self heal away too then.

Lucio's whole thing is to be a self sustainable annoying little shit because he has the firepower of a wet fart.

Can you tell me why it does not create an accurate picture? It probably isn't 100% accurate, but atm this is what you are seeing in tournament and competitive. The only time you dip down into F tier is for bastion cheese or to dig out your old main like S76/WM/Pharah

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Mercy doesn't have a passive healing ability.
She needs to trade his ability to do damage to heal a single teammate at a time.

TF2

Also people don't point out the biggest problem with the current tier. And that's it is focused on a 2/2/2 comp. Meaning that it is going to be stagnant and samey for both teams to have similar comps which is boring as fuck to watch.
The most interesting type of dynamic is always 1/2/3 or something like that. That means there is more people switching to everybody instead.