I played pic related last night and I want to talk about it

I played pic related last night and I want to talk about it.

SPOILERS AHEAD SPOILERS AHEAD

I kind of liked it but I don't get why it's so praised. It's definitely one of the better RPG maker games and it was well crafted, but the story in my opinion was not very appealing to me.

The major thing that turned me off was the whole concept of artificial memories. If everything is just going on in his head then the whole ending really doesn't matter. I get that he died happy but it was all artificial so why is this so much better than pumping him full of drugs? The reveal that even if they went their seperate ways they would still eventually find eachother was cute, but as they said in the game, it was merely a prediction based on what he knew about River and not reality.

I enjoyed the memories a lot and the twist about his twin brother and the fact that he had met River when he was young was very interesting and that for me was the high point of the game.

I would have preferred if the ending was him unlocking his lost memories and then waking up to realise why things had gone the way they did. He could then forgive himself, get closure and die content. Instead of this he just erased the memories of his life and got fake ones.

Thoughts?

Fuck

your brain processes reality and if a method can recreate a reality that feels equally real to you as irl, then it doesn't matter what is real and what isn't

the guy had a miserable final couple of years and he was right to correct it to the extent of his abilities

>if a method can recreate a reality that feels equally real to you as irl, then it doesn't matter what is real and what isn't
I very much disagree on this point.

>he was right to correct it
My point is that he corrected nothing.

>I very much disagree on this point.

you're probably very young

also good contribution you sure convinced me

I talked about this in the OP though.

>it was all artificial so why is this so much better than pumping him full of drugs
> it was merely a prediction based on what he knew about River and not reality

Your perceived reality doesn't matter as much as reality itself. Your actions has consequenses in the real world for other people, the same is not true in your mind.

Would you rather have nice but fake memories or depressing but real memories?

He unfortunately got a miserable couple of years and simply hooking your mind up to a machine and erasing them doesn't erase history.

>you're probably very young
why do you assume this?

>Instead of this he just erased the memories of his life and got fake ones.
Let the poor man be happy for the last time in his life

he fixed his regret and died peacefully

>Would you rather have nice but fake memories or depressing but real memories?

it fucking doesn't matter when your brain perceives both as equally real

yes, I'll have the nice and artificially created memories; you enjoy your 'miserable but real' life

I don't value happiness as highly as I value the reasons for why you are happy. And I don't value it as highly as truth either.

It's all meaningless.

>he fixed his regret and died peacefully
He didn't fix the problems that caused him regret, he just forgot about his regret. He just erased his regret.

>it fucking doesn't matter when your brain perceives both as equally real

If you're willing to trade your actual memories for some fake ones then your whole life doesn't matter at all and was just a fucking waste of time. Why not just end it instead of going through the whole process? You're effectively killing yourself by erasing your memories anyway.

>It's all meaningless.
>I don't value
I only explained the ending. Your opinion on the subject is very real but this is just how the developer viewed things.

Yes I guess I just didn't really agree with the developers view. As I said in the OP, I wanted him to die happy but not as another person.

>why do you assume this?
because you haven't thought it through

>It's all meaningless.
you said it

but not in the way you think you do, because it's entirely subjective

it doesn't matter whether he lived miserably or died happily with fake memories; to his brain both experiences were real

it's not a prerequisite of a meaningful life for those experiences to have been made in your perceived version of reality

This is just a bluepill vs redpill argument. I stand in favor of the redpill too.

>it's not a prerequisite of a meaningful life for those experiences to have been made in your perceived version of reality
It's not a prerequisite of a meaningful experience but I don't think you can consider it life at all.

>it doesn't matter whether he lived miserably or died happily with fake memories; to his brain both experiences were real
As I said here:
Why not just end it instead of going through the whole process? You're effectively killing yourself by erasing your memories anyway


I suppose it is. I just thought there would be more dislike for the game considering that there's a lot of people who prefer the redpill but they probably enjoyed the game for other reasons (just like me).

A lot of us just ignored the ending because of how sweet it was. Much like how we ignored Life is Strange's terrible ending because of how comfy the game was

>Why not just end it instead of going through the whole process? You're effectively killing yourself by erasing your memories anyway

are you retarded?

because he wanted to experience a full and happy life, and he did just that with the technology that those scientists provided him with

again, it doesn't matter what your piss-poor notions of reality and 'meaningful' are; he achieved what he set out to do

>being happy is all I care about
>the self doesn't matter
Selfish thinking.

yeah you are retarded

I'm currently playing through Life is Strange and I'm enjoying it so I guess I'll lower the bar for the ending. No spoilers pls.

Yes he achieved what he set out to do. I couldn't enjoy the ending because I didn't relate. I would never make that trade. I made the thread to find out WHY you would want to make that trade.

Calling me young or retarded because I value real things over good things is unneccessary and ironic.

Not an argument. There's only the 3 of us in this thread, why are you even bothering to insult me?
>enjoying it
Enjoy the comfy while it lasts user.

>WHY you would want to
The other very angry user makes it very clear that some people are in favor of the bluepill becuase hurr durr happy.

>I made the thread to find out WHY you would want to make that trade.

and it's clear that you don't like the answers given to you

>I would never make that trade.
smuganimeface.jpg

The memory thing was just a framing device for telling a reverse-chronological story about how a guy's life went to shit, while still managing to get a bittersweet rather than just bitter ending. As for OP, he takes modern philosophical dogma for granted, but that's fine.

I think your answers are unsatisfactory, yes.

At this point it seems like we just disagree. I'm trying to understand your side and your side responds by telling me I'm retarded. This makes me doubt anything you say.

What's your opinion on the ending I suggested in the OP?

>As for OP, he takes modern philosophical dogma for granted, but that's fine
Please elaborate. I haven't read anything that made me think/feel this way, it's simply the way I think.

I'm open to new ideas but I've never found something that I can agree with that is contradictory to my current stance on this subject.

Here's another example OP :

The bluepilled person just wants to live in peace and comfortably and without suffering before his death. He'll die happy.

The redpilled person wants to help humanity but in return he has to bear a weight and the consequences. He'll die sad if he doesn't accomplish what he wants.

People can switch between the two at anytime, there's no fixed ideology. The game simply ends as the first person.

Even the most hardcore atheists may turn to god on their deathbed in search of a happy ending.

I think the mere fact that people can debate about the "right thing" for the main character to have done is why I liked this game so much.

I think escapism isn't necessarily good, and I think the two people changing his memories knew that. I liked that sort of dilemma being present, and I think the game had a stronger story for it.

Jesus FUCK that whole sequence with the music while his memories of River were being changed. It kills me. And the part where they hold hands as the simulation starts failing too. Fuck me, man. The game had some really strong moments for sure. Sequel other than A Bird Story when

Thank you. I guess I've never made the switch yet and that makes it difficult for me to understand. Maybe when I'm very old I will feel differently.

Your contribution tipped me over the edge into liking the game substantially more. When playing it I had a hard time getting into it because of the things I wrote in the OP.

Now after thinking about it some more I agree with you. I just missed out on getting emotional because I opposed the artifical memories as a whole and considered the characters and the practice immoral. But the fact that I got emotionally involved in the game at all (even if in a different way than intended) is definitely a great thing for a game to accomplish.

Well, the modern dogma puts a high premium on "objectivity," which is an incoherent idea. You can't make objectivity out of subjectivity, which is why the better term is intersubjectivity, shared or collective subjectivity. This is what the scientific process actually is, for example, and what one finds with intersubjectivity is that you get "broad bias," or a term a friend made up, "paradigm lock." The plot of To the Moon takes this stuff seriously, and recognizes that, in the end, subjectivity is all there is. Particularly for a man on his deathbed who's cut off from the rest of the world.
If this is a turn-off, I'd expect it's because it flies in the face of what we want to be true, which is that there is objectivity and "human progress" is convergent on it. Y'know, that thing scientists say about how models aren't true but always getting better---and yet, if models aren't true because the process that generates them is faulty, how would we ever know how good they are?

Cool, man. I'm glad you liked it in the end, then. I had a similar moral quandary when playing the game the first time, actually. I think experiencing media with a frame of mind that opposes the events taking place makes me feel stronger about it sometimes. I think the writer probably wanted people to feel mixed about it to some extent, even. I'm a sucker for bittersweet endings, also, for whatever reason. Makes me remember things much more strikingly.

Thank you for explaining.

>If this is a turn-off, I'd expect it's because it flies in the face of what we want to be true, which is that there is objectivity and "human progress" is convergent on it
You might be right on this but my opinion is slightly different from what you describe.

I think that seeing things in complete subjectivity is ultimately anti-productive and that even when objectivity doesn't matter or doesn't exist (collective subjectivity is a great way to put it), it's the only way for us to have a chance of progressing in any way. If we're content by being happy we will never strive to break the barriers to truly understand.

It seems selfish and anti-productive because in that way of thinking you can justify giving up in exchange for a better subjective experience and will just result in people getting high on drugs and killing themselves.

It's easy to philosophize away all meaning of existance.

I don't really know what I'm talking about so please excuse my ignorance.

Yeah this thread helped me a lot so thanks to everyone involved (we're just 5 people but still).

I agree that
>media with a frame of mind that opposes the events taking place
stick out and usually enjoy games that to this even if I dislike it first.

And if the writer wanted people to feel mixed about it then he did a good job, but for me it honestly doesn't matter what his intent was.

>stick out and usually enjoy games that to this even if I dislike it first

my brain melted a bit, woops