BYRGENWERTH BYRGENWERTH

>BYRGENWERTH
>BYRGENWERTH

>BLOOD CRAZED MURDERERS! BLASPHEMOUS... FIENDS!

>ATONEMENT FOR THE WRETCHES, BY THE WRATH OF MOTHER KOS!

>LAY THE CURSE OF BLOOD UPON THEM, AND THEIR CHILDREN'S CHILDREN, FOREVER MORE. EACH WRETCHED BIRTH, WILL PLUNGE EACH, WRETCHED, CHILD, INTO A LIFETIME OF MISERY...

I don't get it, what the fuck is going on around here? Bloodborne lore thread, because I have no idea what the hell is supposed to be going on in this dlc. How does it relate to the main game? How the fuck is Kos dead, weren't the Mensis calling upon her(?) in the Nightmare?

Everything began at Byrgenwerth. The hunters killed Kos, and took her umbilical chord. Orphan of Kos created the Hunters Nightmare.

I don't remember.

where does it say that the Hunters killed Kos?

How can Micolash be communing with Kos if Kos is dead? You obviously can't talk to the dead, they're fucking dead

I think Gherman is the one who killed Kos and took the Umbilical Chord to the Abandoned Workshop and used it to call or create the Moon Presence or something, which sustains the Hunters Nightmare.

You see Gherman at the Fishing Hamlet in the trailer for The Old Hunters.

Theres an item description somewhere that confirms it. Like I said, I don't remember exactly, but I'm POSITIVE the hunters killed Kos and that's why the Hunters Nightmare exists, to punish them.

It's a Nightmare realm man. You fight people who are dead in Nightmare realms all the time. Including Micolash, and Laurence, and Orphan of Kos. Also, how do you know Micolash is talking to Kos? He asks "Can you hear our prayers?" during the fight.

Her corpse washed up on shore. Byrgenwerth experimented on the people in the fishing village and sent Gehrman and Maria to cover it up.

but user, wasn't there a delay when setting up the Hunter's Nightmare? I thought that it wasn't established until later, when the church was already well-established, and Hunters were "ten a penny" in downtown Yharnam's streets

It's Kosm you fucking illiterate pedestrians.

>You see Gherman at the Fishing Hamlet in the trailer for The Old Hunters.
this was cut content. he isn't anywhere in the Village in the final game, and so this shouldn't be mentioned as it's noncanon

"When the carcass of Kos washed up on the coast, its insides were teeming with tiny parasites, unlike any found in humans. "

Kos parasite description. She was dead already.

whats his fucking problem?

You're confusing the names of the Hunter's Dream and the Hunter's Nightmare. It's a big difference.

The Hunter's Dream is sustained by the Moon Presence who was sympathetic towards Gherman'd needs, and brought about the Hunters chosen by the oath ruin.

The Hunter's Nightmare is the first area of the DLC, where the hunters are tormented forever by the Curse of the Orphan/the people of the Fishing Hamlet.

>implying that the Hunters didn't pile into a boat and harpoon her ass while still at sea
Lady Maria wasn't wearing a pirate hat for shits and giggles

>tormented forever
I feel 10000x more sorry for the beasts that are trapped in the Hunter's Nightmare than the hunters.

The Hunters are blood-addled, they're all screaming for MORE BLOOD and BLOOD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW. They've been given an infinite, everlasting playground to indulge in their addictions. The beasts are the true victims here, look how traumatized they are, especially relative to their normal levels of aggression. Nothing deserves that, not even beasts.

The Hunters in the Nightmare are in a playground for blood-drunk rabid children. The beasts therein are in TRUE hell

God damn I love the Fishing Hamlet. Probably my favorite area in a video game.

I've gotta go play The Old Hunters again now.

>You obviously can't talk to the dead, they're fucking dead
You talk to a dead gatekeeper in game.

The Hunters didn't kill Kos, her corpse just washed up on the shore. It was probably the parasites that killed her. The Hunters just came in and fucked up the village trying to learn everything they could about Great Ones.

that was all just in your head user, it wasn't real. the game is the ever-loving king of DUDE IT'S NOT REAL, IT WAS JUST A DREAM/IN YOUR HEAD LOL, and I don't know why it's praised so much. Normally Sup Forums hates that type of twist

what the fuck even WAS the "curse of Blood"

is it Beasthood? Was the Orphan of Kos causing the Scourge of Beasts?

It's what causes blood-addling and sends hunters to the Nightmare.

All the beasts are former hunters, thats the true punishment right there.

Something older than anything to do with the current Hunters and such I think.

Remember, people weren't being effected by it untill they found said cursed blood in the catacombs.

I find that hard to believe, most of the beasts in the Nightmare are normie Old Yharnam beasts, and from what we've seen, Hunters transform into Giga Beasts like Ludwig, Amelia, and Gascoigne when they pop

Those are all members of the Church, that's why they turn into such horrific beasts. Hunters turn into beasts like you find in Old Yharnam.

what's the distinction between blood-addling and beasthood?

THey turn into more horrific beasts not because they are members of the church, but because the church members imbibe more and more potent blood.

The penny-dozen yharnam hunters on the streets turn into the weak beasts you find in the nightmare.

I think that it has more to do with your powerlevel than your affiliation with the Church. More powerful in life, and the longer you resist the transformation, the more dramatic the beast

I just don't see someone of Maria or Gehrman's level turning into such a puny beast. If anything, even assuming a 1:1 ratio of "powerlevel" transfer, the resulting beasts would kick the ever loving shit out of the old yharnam beasts, not join them

Blood addling is more like regular insanity coupled with blood addiction. It's separate from the beast plague.

I think Miyazaki commented in an interview that members of the church turn into more horrific beasts because they resist the scourge so much and the sort of snap back once they turn is that much harder. The more you resist, the more horrific a beast you become, and members of the church resist harder.

>The hunters killed Kos
"When the carcass of Kos washed up on the coast, its insides were teeming with tiny parasites, unlike any found in humans"
You're dumb

fun fact: the normal AWAY AWAY beast hunters that you find in Central Yharnam don't even take bonus serration damage. Their transformation was so feeble that the saw doesn't have enough to work with to get any special effect. Imagine, for a second, being such a failure. They're like what would happen if Anthony Burch turned into a beast

what do you mean? I thought that blood-addling was the early warning sign of scourge infection

Wait those were all hunters?
I thought they were just Yharnamites trying to fight off the beasts?

They're sort of low-grade church hunters. Seems like the church was taking anybody they could by the end.

they were normie Yharnamites recruited to join the hunt, as Ludwig was campaigning for

heh it's actually the humens that r the reel bad guys rely makes u think u know what a novel idea

>HUNTER'S DREAM
creator: Moon Presence
host: Gehrman

>NIGHTMARE OF MENSIS
creator: Mergo/ Mergo's Wet Nurse (impossible to tell which of the two)
host: Micolash

>HUNTER'S NIGHTMARE+FISHING HAMLET
creator: Orphan of Kos
host: ________

¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿??????????

Probably because humanity is the worst thing to ever plague the world.

*tips nihilism*

We like Link's Awakening.

Host is an arguable translation for Micolash, it could just as easily be "Lord of the Nightmare" and there are no other references to hosts in the game. I don't think it's meant in that way.

No that would be the ticks or the black plague.

So does the real world in BB not have any beasts?

The shit you did in Yharnam did happen dingus
Everything else was in a Cthulu monster's head, not yours

War has killed more people than the black plague.

No, the point is that each Nightmare has an individual whom the creator Great One "patterns" the dream after. Like allowing your pet bird to choose the form and decoration of it's cage.

For the MP, this was Gehrman, who chose to have his Nightmare modeled after his old workshop, complete with doll waifu.

Micolash was given the honor of picking the form of his dream, and he made a spoopy castle with floating skeleton puppets everywhere.

Who did the Orphan allow to choose the form of the Hunter's Nightmare?

it's a dream, user

dreams aren't real

Nothing is in anybody's head, dreams are real places.

Maria?

No, it definitely has beasts, there are multiple cases of foreigners traveling to Yharnam from abroad to hunt beasts.

A beast escaped into the surrounding countryside and killed one of Valtr's friends, they chased it all the way back to Yharnam

Old Hunter Yamamura came from not-Japan to join the Hunt

There's no real indication of that though. Yes, Dreams can be shaped somehow, but the Nightmare Frontier doesn't have a host that determines its shape, and the Nightmare of Mensis is really just part of that, the space isn't created by Micolash.

Different curses by differ t old ones.

>That smell
>That smelly smell
>That smelly smell is enough to make a man sick

Maria was the host

It'sblooood

that would make sense, as it's gruesome nature and chronological order from Yharnam to Research Hall matches Maria's background and motivations. Plus, the fact that she hides the Fishing Hamlet would also align with the idea of her being the "template" behind the Nightmare's creation.

She's also got a very Gehrman-esque powerup sequence and moveset

No, you don't understand, Micolash didn't create shit, Mergo did. Mergo just gave Micolash the honor of deciding what his own Nightmare would get to look like.

REMINDER that the Mensis were drawn into the Nightmare after accidentally making contact with Mergo via a cord, it's a close parallel to how the Hunter's Dream was formed.

The Nightmare Frontier doen't have a host because it isn't the product of a pact between a Great One and a human, like the other 3 regions

Bloodborne 2 as a great one slaying all other great ones in other universes and galaxies to free humanity, and fighting yourself as the last great one when?

man, I was very disappointed at how unfunny that video was

Well war is kinda a broad subject. Animals go to war too, ants, monkies, elephants.

At least humans also prevent loss of life pretty regularly and actually cares if something would be gone, ain't gonna expect that from a wolf or whatever.

Yeah, normally I like Plague's shit but that didn't do it for me

I know Maria came up with the hunters nightmare so she would be the host.

But if the entire game is various nightmare realms than how bad/good is actual Yharnam?

BB just isn't very funny, there's not a lot of material to work with in the first place

Yarnham in game isn't a dream you can see what how well the city is doing

I totally wanted to fuck all the Pokemon, though.

The place you are in the game is actual Yharnam
The Hunter's Nightmare is just a place for you to prepare to go and wreck some shit
Rom was preventing the Mensis Nightmare from bleeding into the real world, which you kinda fuck up by killing Rom

>feeling pity for peasant fishers when there was serious science to be done
ayy lmao
byrgenwert dindu nuffin they be good scholars an shiiiieet
respect willem

xD

If the person who makes a pact with a great one gets to decide the form of the nightmare, then the guy in OP's pic would be the one for the Hunter's Nightmare.

IMO the Fishing Hamlet existed long before the Hunter's Nightmare did -- the Orphan made the Hamlet when it GTFO to escape from Byrgenwerth.

Only later, when the Church had made the Astral Clocktower to traverse the Nightmare (that is, after all, the Clocktower's function), did Maria make contact with the Orphan -- post guilt and self-loathing -- and come up with the Hunter's Nightmare to punish everyone for their sins and protect the Hamlet from prying eyes and/or vengeance

>Yarnham in game isn't a dream
Suuuuuuuure.

the Hunter's Nightmare came after the Hamlet did though, see Plus, we'll never know about the fishman, because he's actually invincible and thus cannot die

Byrgenwerth is a bunch of shitters who failed at everything they ever did, Laurence was right to split from them.

>respect Willem
go to bed, Willem

I cannot let go of my theory that the Moon Presence is somehow a nightmarish projection of Kos.

You'll notice the similarities between the two:

1.both have tentacles/tendrils extending from their face
2.the fin like structures jutting out from their elbows
3.moon presence has an excavated core, not unlike Kos'

fuck, meant to say that should see

Makes sense and after Maria committed sudoku she met Orphan in the nightmare realm and made a pact to form the hunters nightmare

this is your DAILY REMINDER that Vilebloods A L W A Y S win (eventually)

Execucktioners can get out of this thread

Also, it feels like you see Queen Yharnam in a similar fashion. You can meet her pacifist version in Mergo's loft, but then her more nightmarish version is fought in the chalice dungeons.

But Laurence creating the church and spreading the blood around is why the beast plague got so out of hand.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and in strange aeons even death may die.

>who failed at everything they ever did
The runes work great, you just jelly Laurence.

>Kos has lightning magic and makes a yellow swiss-cheese moon
>MP has blood magic and makes a red moon

>Kos is a squid
>MP is furry like a beast

If you look closely at the hands on the clock face they stop on lake and deep sea runes.
The clocktower is a fucking stargate

we're making the world's biggest omelette here, Jack, can't go fretting about every egg!

Willem never saw those Runes
>Provost Willem WOULD HAVE BEEN PROUD OF Caryll's Runes
those runes were made in the Church, after the schism

CAINHURST A SHIT POST WHEELS

>Willem never saw those Runes
Yeah that's why he carries one with him. Laurence go back to you chair you pitiful beast.

lmao that hat is fucking stupid, enjoy being blind as I ring it with my chikage like a bell

>Byrgenwerth dindu nuffin

ATONE FOR YOUR SINS VERMIN SCUM

Explain to me what the fuck was happening in the Mensis Ritual. What, specifically, were they trying to do? How does the One Reborn fit into all of this? Why does the Blood Moon fall on downtown Yharnam AND ONLY downtown Yharnam?

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you filth? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Hunters Workshop, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Vilebloods, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in hunter warfare and I’m the top shooter in the entire Workshop. You are nothing to me but just another beast. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before in Yharnam, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me through a messenger? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of hunters across the city and your location is being traced right now so you better prepare for the hunt, maggot. The hunt that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my untricked cane. Not only am I extensively trained in hunter combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Healing Church and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the city, you little shit. If only you could have known what holy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn rat. I will shit frenzy all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo

So we all agree BB doesn't need a sequel, but what about a prequel?

Rom is a parallel to a Spider Goddess known as Atlach-Nacha, a creature in Lovecraft who can abridge the gaps between the 'dreamlands' and the waking world with its massive web. However, prophecy warns that Atlach-Nacha will being doom to the world, should she finish her web. In finishing it, she will permanently open a gap that will allow monsters from "the other side" to freely enter the mundane world. She is also the ruler of all spiders and spider-like beings.

In Bloodborne, Rom is a juvenile, somewhat infantile Great One*, being incredibly defenseless and cowardly when confronted by the hunter. Instead of a gigantic web, she exists deep within the Moonside Lake, hidden from other prying eyes. As we know, large bodies of water serve as a 'bulwark' or defensive, rampart-like barrier for the Great Ones in Bloodborne, so it makes sense to find her here instead of elsewhere. We know that Rom is keeping manners of rituals and [their] master away from them through some unknown means. We also know that a similar creature's corpse is found next to a somber Ebrietas, with no context as to why. We also are left slightly confused as to whether Rom is truly a Great One in the sense we are led to attribute the term in the game, given her differing descriptions for her trophy and the dropping of kin coldblood. We know from Micolash that Mother Kos/Kosm is the source of Rom's "eyes".

Because of this, it's hard to figure out what the hell Rom is, where its true origins come from, etc. etc.

They were trying to resurrect Mergo the one reborn was all the mensis scholars except Micolash all pulled out of the nightmare at once by the pthumerians

My guess? Rom is a type of "escape pod" for Earthbound Great Ones. In Lovecraft, there is an amoral "food chain" of Great Ones: nearly none of the Great Ones are on the same side, pursue the same goals, etc. In fact, they are largely in competition, war or otherwise prey on each other, and largely treat meddling humans as irrelevant pawns for their own ends. The Mi-Go race for instance (a parallel of the Amygdalae) are consorts of a perverse deity named Ghatanothoa that resembles the Brain of Mensis, and the progenitors of Earth, the "Elder Beings" (very similar to Ebrietas), fear them and evacuate once they arrive on Earth. The Celestial Emissary, a reference to a race of a distant planet (Yaddith) whose destruction was brought about by creatures introduced to them by the Mi-Go and their deity, take refuge on Earth according to Lovecraft - and much like the Choir, this race was known for truly horrific biological feats. It also possible that they escaped the Moon Presence, a parallel to a feared "false prophet" known as Nyarlathotep/The Crawling Chaos, and Outer God that was known to prey upon all other lifeforms it could supplant, deceive, manipulate or otherwise captivate.

We know Ebrietas is a left-behind and a daughter of the cosmos - "cosmos" simply meaning that she came from outer space like the Elder Beings (the sky and the cosmos are one, after all). We also know that Rom is not necessarily maligned in its existence. What I can infer is that Ebrietas' race, which once populated Earth, were offered respite and refuge from the incoming Amygdalae by Rom. However, it came at a cost: I believe Ebrietas stayed behind and killed the Rom in her chamber in order to seal the gateway behind her own kin, preventing the Amygdalae from following them or having access to wherever they escaped to. This leaves Ebrietas behind.

Is this Silent Hill?

>Explain to me what the fuck was happening in the Mensis Ritual.
It's a giant radio tower to contact the dream in which Kos resides a alternative to the inaccessible clock tower which had the same function.

>dreams are real places
I've done a lot of fucked up things in my dreams, am I going to dream jail?

TYPICAL FUCKING SCHOLAR BEHAVIOR SAY THAT SHIT TO MY FACE IN OLD YARNHAM YOU WITCH OF HEMWICK LOOKING VERMIN

No. Let it be, user.

As to the Rom we encounter, there is something worth noting: we don't seem to encounter it in the true waking world; after all, it's at the bottom of a lake in an ethereal plane. Since we know that Great Ones' deaths are not true if they happen only in mundane form, I believe what we encounter here is the transcendent Rom - the same Rom as the corpse we saw in the chamber. What it did for the mundane by funneling them away, it now does the same for us by keeping us out of the transcendent realm (though this obviously does not mean that the previously-invisible Amygdalae were never there, it does show how our existence is quite beneath their own world). However, we break down that rampart and we now join the nightmare realm that the world truly exists in.

As to tying in with Kos, we know that Kos is a mother-type Great One in Bloodborne, possibly being the source of all Great Ones on Earth. In Lovecraft, this creature is similar to Mother Hydra, an oceanic Great One who rules over the "Deep Ones" - human-amphibious hybrids that are immortal and eventually transform into the type of fish-people we find in the hamlet. In Lovecraft, Hydra has no special abilities or properties other than biological immortality and its propensity to mate with humans to create the Deep Ones, who further her lineage by mating with coast-dwelling humans.
Its hard to say that Rom DOESN'T come from Kos in some way, but - considering how Rom seems to be found in the Pthumeru labyrinth - I think Rom predates Yharnamite humans, meaning it is unlikely Rom is Willem's sister. I think Willem's insight research uncovered Rom in some way.
So what is Rom, then? Well, its face is eerily similar to the Celestial larvae, which resemble Ebrietas. Perhaps their ability to work together infers that they are the same species, but in different metamorphological periods of life. The Vacuous part of her name could hint that Rom was not aware of its fate before being used as a vessel and subsequently killed.

listen up, because all other answers are probably going to be super wrong:

INTENDED MENSIS RITUAL
>Mensis sets up shop in the Nightmare, using Mergo's crying as bait to attract Great Ones
>they hope to snag the attention of Kos, whom they KNOW has already ascended humans before (see: Rom). They hope that she'll repeat the favor
>get Mergo to start wailing, and beg Kos for eyes
>Kos responds, and the Mensis get the Bell Bitches to spawn them back into Downtown Yharnam as a big collective Great One
>Kos performs the transformation as they are spawning back in
>the Nightmare and Downtown Yharnam are brought into contact to ease this transformation
>rule the world or some shit

WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED
>Kos doesn't respond, the Moon Presence does
>the Moon Presence attempts to descend on the Mensis in the Nightmare because it wants to fuck up Mergo
>the MP is prevented from fully descending on the Mensis, probably on account of the Wet Nurse or something
>however, because the Nightmare and downtown Yharnam are in contact, the Blood Moon descends over downtown Yharnam
>this causes the town to explode with beasts as a side effect, GG Micolash
>the Mensis start spawning back into reality by Bell Maiden express, as they think they're in business
>the MP transforms them incorrectly, probably on purpose, during transit
>instead of coming out as a Great One, they spawn in as a horrible monstrosity
>GG

what does Sup Forums think of this theory?

why would they be trying to resurrect Mergo, Micolash is praying for ascendance for himself and his people, not Mergo. Mergo is just bait