What went wrong?

what went wrong?

>open world
>the pacing
>no boss fights
>chapter 2 is a rehash
>tapes instead of cutscenes
>venom barely interacts with the people around him
>no chapter 3/kingdom of flies
>stale mission formulas
>dude parasites lmao

expectations and us falling for it

Kojima was literally too afraid to turn Big Boss into a bad guy on screen so it happened off screen.

>>no chapter 3/kingdom of flies
Kingdom of the Flies would not fix the dog shit story that fucking destroys the continuity of the rest of the series.

>No white dwarfs
>No red super giants
>No neutron stars
>No black holes
>No supernovas
>No quasars
>No gamma ray bursts
>No time dilatation
>No gravitatonal lensing
>No dark matter and dark energy
>No universe that expands constantly
>No statelites you can place around a planet and study it's physics
>No planets like Saturn
>No gas Giants
>No Alcubierre Drive
>No space stations
>No quamtum physics
>No wormholes

>Just 15 quintillion planets with 1 biome
>No planets with 1 side of the planet super hot and the other side super cold
>No water planets

I could go on and on ya know

>people fooled themselves into thinking it was going to be the best game ever
>it wasn't

Would be a pretty good PMC simulator if it didn't have the Metal Gear name attached to it

>New management at Konami thinking it was fucking stupid to be funneling outrageous amounts of money into this one project that is primarily a console game at a time when Japan has generally stopped playing console games and big budget titles in favor of mobile games, which are astronomically less expensive to make and make just as much money back if not more than traditional video games

>Kojima being an indulgent primadonna used to no one ever saying no to him no matter how unreasonable and then being told to ship the game because for fuck's sake look how much we've spent over how long and you're not even done yet

Money, essentially. I'd imagine ego played a role in more than a few respects.

No big boss v solid snake tease.

Everything else would have been looked over by the whiny fans if this happened at the end.
"Boss, it turns out you have two children, I was with one for years and didn't realize it. Your other son looks just like you."

the salenthropus fight was a boss fight.

>Solid snake is teased to be in the game
>mentioned once in a tape

I mean an actual confrontation. Maybe after the credits you see a young Solid sneaking onto one of the bases. Im not sure how the timeline works exactly.

I just wanted to see him recruit the exact soldiers that you face as bosses in MG1. The game would end on the moment where you're fighting Snake in Outer Heaven as it's about to explode. You have no chance to actually win the fight since Snake is destined to blow your face off with a rocket launcher.

Quiet loves Snake but he doesn't love her back

>implying from the dialouge we've seen in kingdom of the flies wasn't horrible.
>BB literally yelling "NOOOOOOOOOOO!" up into the sky
>we were going to fight sala...salaphat whatever the fuck it's called, for a THIRD fucking time.
>implying that the sala boss fight wasn't boring and triple A bug infested as fuck. No creativity, just a big ass healthbar that takes 10,000 hours of autistic grinding to destroy because it's health goes down by 0.1 from a rocket launcher.

I'm so fucking sick of people bitching about episode 51. It looked like shit, the dialouge was shit, and the boss battle would have been the same rehashed bullshit we fought the other two times.

The game was made as a money machine for microtransactions. It was sold as an online game. Not a story driven experience.

>80 million
>enough for a game and a brand new engine
MGSV threads just expose how little Sup Forumsedditors know about videogames and their development.
Besides, you expect me to feel sorry for the Yakuza, even though MGSV made more than twice its budget in 24 hours?

Reminder that Bioshock Infinite costed 150 million using an already existing engine.

>tfw the phantom pain is so strong that you've been rewriting the script to make yourself feel better, but in your heart you just know that there's no way to light up the dark in your eyes.

That bandanna needs some wrinkles in it!

>no boss fights
it has more boss fights than mgs1 you retard.

Can you show us the rewritten script you just did user? i'm interested

kinda off topic but where can I find some QT soldiers in MGSV to recruit?

I don't think you understand what you're saying.

mgs1 had 15 boss fights, including duplicates, mgs5 had 17 including duplicates. i know counting is hard, but you can just use a calculator.

Prisoner Extraction 2

I don't see why people are shocked by Snake's lack of dialogue. He has PTSD and you can easily tell what he's thinking with his body laungauge. Not everything needs to be followed by a question

Let's count.
MGS1
1. Ocelot
2. Gunner
3. Gray Fox
4. Psycho Mantis
5. Sniper Wolf
6. Hind
7. Sniper Wolf II
8. Raven
9. Metal Gear Rex
10. Metal Gear Rex II
11. Liquid
11 boss fights. As for Phantom Pain?
1. Sally
That's literally it.

>1. Sally
>That's literally it.
you're literally retarded.

you forgot quiet

It's actually unfinished but i can give you a basic rundown. So to begin with, there is still a Venom Snake, but he's a side character who makes the decision of his own will and later becomes Decoy Octopus. Miller is retconned as not knowing who Cipher is/what Les Enfantes Terribles is other than a shadowy group with ties to the US govt that gave MSF contracts. Basically, Zero thought Snake was just going to be a mercenary forever and gives him business through Miller just to keep him busy, but after Snake acquires a nuke and declares Outer Heaven to be an autonomous state, Zero realizes he fucked up by letting him become a potential threat. Skull face, who has been plotting against Zero, realizes that Snake could make the perfect ally so he volunteers to lead the attack so that he gains Zero's trust and so he can turn Snake against Zero. He intentionally botches the attack so that Snake can escape and he feels some genuine remorse over killing so many MSF soldiers. Zero's "weapon to surpass Metal Gear" refers to the combination of computer systems/genetic engineering technology that will become "The System" in MGS4, basically a mind-control system. Zero believes that he can use the "linguas franca" of binary code and DNA to force humans to abandon hatred, nationalism, tribalism, and dishonesty to create a Utopia. The Null unit (new name for the Skulls) consists of ordinary people with paranormal abilities who have either joined Zero willingly (who are more dangerous opponents) or have been forced into service via the mind control system. Their suits are developed by paramedic/dr clark, and are the precursor to Gray Fox's cyborg body. I have more, if you're interested.

>the skulls are boss fights
You cant make this shit up.

DELETE THIS

>quasars

Fuck, can you remind me what quasars are?

Well, at least it would add a new tropical area with new assets and missions to do. And another boss fight.

MGSV failed as a story driven game. But it could have been saved as a game filled with good, playable content.

Post more

>Fun gameplay
>Minimal shitty dialogue
>Skippable cutscenes
>Beautiful landscapes

Yeah what a terrible game eh

Nothing, besides the cut content, which isn't nearly as extensive as you faggots think it is. You're all just mad the story wasn't Metal Gear Solid V: Revenge of the Sith and it wasn't a hamfisted cartoon villain story.

>>no boss fights

Sahelanthropus
Skulls
Skulls 2
Quiet

Inb4 too easy for boss.

Not him but keep going.

Is the Medic still Venom, or is it someone else?

...

>open world with barely anything in it
>weird pacing
>c-tier story
>stupid twist
>rushed to completion

Japan never gave a fuck about Metal Gear so they don't matter.

Westerners loving the shitty version of MG1 and Snake's Revenge is the only reason MGS exists and became a long lasting series.

Go ahead!

NO

A lot of us are mad because of that but at the same time were also mad how blatantly lazy and contrived the story was put together.


MGS2 was of a similar nature but it was way better written. You can even call the story of MGS2 tryhard but it certainly wasn't lazy or boring. A legitimate effort felt like was put into it to make it good.

The brightest objects in the universe. Not entirely sure what they are but from what I remember they are the remnants of stars / beginning of super novas. Correct me if I'm wrong.

>buddy in hospital has no facial hair and is dumb
>lmao it's actually the real Big Boss with a full beard

>A lot of us are mad because of that but at the same time were also mad how blatantly lazy and contrived the story was put together.

What, your mad it wasn't a bunch of extensively verbose codec calls and cutscenes that hamfistedly explain meme theory to you?

don't get me wrong, I love MGS2, but they realllllly lay on the codec exposition and thematic dumps way too hard around the time you meet Emma. MGSV's story is told through its gameplay and the tapes (that you can listen to while playing). Remember that this is a video GAME and GAMEplay is king.

After the GZ attack, Zero launches a massive propaganda campaign to discredit Big Boss, similar to how the Boss was reviled as a war criminal. So when BB wakes up, he loses EVERYTHING-his base, his arm, his men, even his legacy. He has to start over from square one. Meanwhile, Miller and Decoy have been traveling around the world, with Decoy pretending to be Big Boss so that Zero's attention is drawn away from the real Boss. Ocelot (who in PO, PW and before GZ actually agreed with Zero'a globalist ideals due to nationalism killing his parents) becomes disgusted with Zero for attacking Boss. This starts his transformation into the anti-Patriot figure he is for the rest of the series. He feeds Miller information and gives him money/support during the nine years. Skull face travels the world under the guise of searching for snake but he is actually building up his own network behind Zero's back. Miller takes a contract training mujihadeen in afghanistan and ocelot is forced to tell zero to maintain his cover. Zero sends the Null unit on a test run (they are named Nulls both as a reference to Null in PO and because null values are ones that are unknown/less than Zero, signifying their subservience to Zero.) The nulls capture Miller and Boss' location is tortured out of him, and he is turned over to the soviets so Zero can build influence with them, and because the soviets wanted revenge against diamond dogs for training mujihadeen. More?

>>No water planets
What was in Interstellar then.

check mate.

He is a medic/surgeon, which explains how he is able to manipulate his own face.

He has the model of the medic in GZ though.

>MGSV's story is told through its gameplay and the tapes (that you can listen to while playing)
>MGSV
>story
I love this meme.

Yes more

>Japan never gave a fuck about Metal Gear
wat

I sure do love riding on my horse for 20 minutes through empty desert/wetlands in order to get to a small outpost consisting of 2 guard towers and some tents.

Or how about some side ops? Would you like to rescue a prisoner, take out a tank crew, or kill some heavy infantry 150 times?

What amazing gameplay!

and the skulls @ Braga Airport

Storywise it was good.

Only problem with MGSV was the open world and chapter 2 nothing else.
The game is a solid 9/10 but Sup Forums always picks the littlest of things and use them to demonize the entire game.

>and because null values are ones that are unknown/less than Zero, signifying their subservience to Zero.)
I like you, user. Please continue.

It wasn't :"hamfisted" yes MGS2 put a lot of the story in codec which was disappointing for sure. But the characters had so much more personality and interesting things going on for them.

Not all of MGSV's tapes were bad. But 2 had a lot more interesting optional codec calls.

the "meme theory" thing was fine. I liked the message it tried to convey and thought it did it spectacularly.

MGSV I guess was about filling a gap. Or maybe the game was about emptyness and it was made to make you move on, just like Kojima did.


But from what I heard the game had a lot more dialouge and features going on with it. It's suspicious to say the least and I think the game was shortened down due to Konami.

It's entertaining to read in a good way, more

That is the Phantom Pain.

Kojima is in love in Big Boss and refused to have him turn into a bad guy. We were all waiting to see what was the moment Big Boss turned from optimistic legendary Mercenary, to terrorist bad guy.

But nope, we got Big Medic instead and retconned his involvement in MG1.

>gameplay only counts when it's linear glorified hallways that give me constant positive reinforcement through cutscenes that each and every individual mission is THE MOST IMPORTANT MISSION EVER TO SAVE THE WORLD BOSS

I bet you say things like "MGS4 has the best gameplay in the series, too bad there isn't enough of it!" and "Ground Zeroes has more variety than Phantom Pain because Miller gives me a radio call before and after each mission!" ayy lmao

The ends are not important, it's the means, faggot. Each mission is as varied and different as you choose to approach it.

Did Huey actually betray them with the GZ incident? I probably won't get around to finishing TPP since I'm moving and can't bring my ps4 with me (comp can't run it).

Were not "picking on little things." The mission structure, the story, it all leads to people being lazy.


The Witcher 3 had way more going on in it's overworld, the sidequests and characters were much more engaging. And the studio that made that is much smaller than Konami is.

Even Fallout 4 was better, and it was made by less people, during a shorter time, and with a smaller budget. And it's not like MGSV was the first game to use the engine.

MGSV is a disaster.

Big Boss in Peace Walker was already a non-state actor with a nuclear weapon that helped a communist takeover of Nicaragua and recruited child soldiers. You just see him as a romanticized war hero because you're playing as him, and you're an idiot who wanted MGSV to be Revenge of the Sith.

Big Boss' fall in MGSV is a lot more subtle and nuanced than I SAW BIG BOSS...KILLING YOUNGLINGS

>Big Boss turned from optimistic legendary Mercenary, to terrorist bad guy.

Sup Forums actually believes Big Boss was a bad guy, ever.

That is exactly why. Plus none of the MGS games are like that. Only on the surface level.


It's not Kojima's fault that the majority of his fans are unaware retards who have no concept of nuance or deeper messages. That's probably why he streamlined MGS3 a lot more because he knew his retarded audience wouldn't get another MGS2.

But it still gave those things you mentioned, it was just smart about it. MGSV could have done both but it simply got lazy with it's overall design.

MGS4 did have the best gameplay at the time though? It was underutilized just like TPP's was.

It's been said before, but the game should have been tons and tons of ground zeroes size locations, each in different parts of the globe with different ways of tackling the objective.

>It's not Kojima's fault that the majority of his fans are unaware retards who have no concept of nuance or deeper messages.

Honestly, you're probably one of those retards. I bet you complain about MGSV not fitting into canon and having retcons within the timeline.

You make a good point. And I thought the overall twist of Big Boss basiclly just becoming another asshole who uses and manipulates others people for his own personal gain was the real fall here. I get it.
But the game itself leading up to all of that could have been so much more interesting and better written.

>Big Boss' fall in MGSV is a lot more subtle and nuanced than
It wasn't Big Boss doing any of those things in MGS5. What you do as Big Medic is childs play in comparison to what is done in Peace Walker.

In Peace Walker Boss is fucking paid to do what he is doing. Which is the whole point of his organization, a place for men like him to live and survive.

Kojima had such a massive man crush on him he turned him into the main protagonist of the fucking series.

I found it funny how the only thing you paid attention to was the inflammatory statement I made mid way through.

>BIG BOSSES FALL
>hey you guys are doing this plan? alright i guess
here's your (you) you fuck

Kojima was only present for six months of development.

Also all indoor environments were cut.

>tiona
the fire guy at the hell house or whatever was called

What did he do in V that counted as a fall?

>actively avoided killing children and even rescued a group of kids (which he was contracted to kill) and educated them for no apparent reason
>killed his men because they were infected and would end up wiping out all of motherbase if left alive
>let Huey, the obvious traitor, leave on a boat with food and supplies

They cut up the game and sold the prologue for $40.
Fultoning thousands of enemies breaks the game but is necessary to develop new equipment.
Mobile style gaming were it takes weeks in real time to develop new platforms and equipment, unless you pay real money.
Most guns were duplicates with slightly different trivial stats. Two sub-machine guns were duplicated into eight, three assault rifles were duplicated into seventeen.

>Kojima had such a massive man crush on him he turned him into the main protagonist of the fucking series.

Which is pretty funny after MGS2 was apparently about how we're all stupid morons for liking Snake and wanting to play as him.

> made by Kojima, not Hideo

Basically one of the conflicts of Metal Gear is of nature vs technology, right? (Like how in MGS3, the cobras have "organic" abilities, and the Beauties in MGS4 are almost completely "inorganic". MgsV would be the turning point, where nature/instinct (represented by Big Boss) fights against technology/thought (Zero). This conflict would also be illustrated by Miller's rejection of false limbs and Snake's phantom pain in his robot arm. So plotwise, Mantis is being sent from the USSR to a Cipher camp to turn him into a Null soldier, when his plane crashes and the trauma causes his already powerful abilities to increase in power. He attacks basically everyone at the hospital, because if he helped anyone it would contradict what he said in MGS1 about helping people. Meanwhile XOF (under zero's control, he blames skull face for fucking up the Gz attack) is attacking the hospital (the nulls were damaged in the battle with miller) and they have orders to kill all of snake's allies while taking him alive so that they can turn him into a Null/take his DNA for further clone projects. Ocelot sends in Decoy to rescue Snake and sacrifice himself if need be, Ocelot himself hangs back because he doesn't want to reveal himself as a double agent. Decoy and Boss escape and make plans to rescue Miller. During gameplay, Snake is very slow and weak compared to GZ and suffers audio/visual hallucinations, as well as phantom pains that affect his aim. During his coma, he relives the Snake eater mission and shooting the boss is the last thing he sees before waking up. Also, in the GZ attack, there is a playable sequence where Cecile/Amanda and other PW characters are trapped/pinned down, but the player can only save a small handful of regular soldiers due to a time limit.

>Not written by Tomokazu Fukushima

Theres a reason why everything went to shit after MGS3 once Fukushima randomly disappeared on the Tokyo metro one night.

Exactly this, also no campiness. The classic "action 80s movie" feel was the best part of 1-3, along with the story. Of which v had none

Source? i'd really like to know more about this.


That's the point in a way. The fake BB was actually better than the real one in a lot of ways. The fall comes when you realize that BB is so powerful that when Ahab dies, he actually convinces the entire world he "survived" BB is indeed very powerful. But ironiclly he left the Patriots because he didn't like Zero telling stories about him, real,contrived, or semi contrived.


That's what BB ends up doing of his own will. Ahab really has no real impact on the overall lore of the game. He's in two games and then is forgotten about.

Maybe that was the point of the series as a whole. Instead of just doing what we enjoy we get into silly conflicts and if driven far enough we can destroy our own lives.


Oh yeah I heard about that. I guess the first 3 mgs's had 2 writers? but didn't Kojima write PW himself? I found MGS4 to be more fun but the dialouge was a little cringey. But not as bland and bad as MGSV though.

Venom Snake is the idealized version of Big Boss, a memetic copy crafted through suggestion, the idea of the perfect soldier made manifest rather than the flawed man himself. He is representative of the player, who is able to better interpret the Boss' will than Big Boss, who has become so obsessed with his pointless pissing match with Zero that he sends Venom to die as his decoy. You know, exactly what the CIA did to the Boss that he said he would never ever do when he founded MSF.

>is a lot more nuanced

You mean that you don't know anything about it until Ocelot mentions a few lines of dialogue at the end of the game?

>It's just a shittier and weaker version of what was done in MGS2

I'd rather just have actually been Big Boss and watch him manipulate Venom Snake. Instead of the asspull in the last 2 minutes.

Is that really what happened to him?

(Continuing) the first part of the game/afghanistan would basically focus on the relationships between miller, snake, and ocelot (Miller is more emotional/impulsive, ocelot is more rational and plans in the long term, both of them feel guilt for contributing to snake's attack at the hospital; this guilt is what will prevent them from speaking up against snake when his decisions become harder to justify. The diamond dogs, inspired by big boss' return, embark in a flurry of battles and missions against the soviets in revenge for hurting miller, as well as to disrupt zero's operations with the USSR. There would be gameplay missions featuring mujihadeen fighters and soviet soldiers (similar to the rebel/mercenary battles from mgs4.) Anyone still reading?

Well he either killed himself or the Yakuza killed him.

Yeah, well, that's not what Kojima was going for. He wanted a meta-narrative that reflected the player's role in the series and MGSV itself being focused on gameplay.

Honestly, the ONLY reason Venom Snake works is because he's a stand-in for the player.

>There would be gameplay missions featuring mujihadeen fighters and soviet soldiers (similar to the rebel/mercenary battles from mgs4.)

Most of your ideas are dumb, but this REALLY should have been an expansion of MGS4's balance of power mechanic. There should have been instanced events where you can randomly find the Soviets/Mujahideen or the PMCs/African Militias fighting it out, and depending on how you influence the battles one side starts to take more control of the map and that influences the story.

>Venom Snake works is because he's a stand-in for the player.

But he is not a fucking stand in character, until the end we think he is Big Boss. Who is a completely established character. It's a symptom of Kojima's hack writing ability, he is great with ideas but can't write a coherent story to save his life.

I'm still reading, buddy.

>Most of your ideas are dumb
Geeze. I know metal gear isn't exactly Ibsen, but I figured I was doing a better job than Kojima, at least. And yeah, having multiple factions would have made the gameplay have a lot more potential.

What do you guys think MGS6 will be like?

Better or worse then V with Kojima out of the picture?

>MGS series

It's dead Jim.

>But he is not a fucking stand in character, until the end we think he is Big Boss.

Obviously the reveal isn't until the end but there are a fucking multitude of hints that you're not really playing as Big Boss throughout. Why do you think you made that avatar in the beginning and assigned him a name and birthday, which was probably your own? Venom Snake is you, a random normie thrown into the role of Big Boss and through building Diamond Dogs you are creating the legend of Big Boss, claiming the title for your own.

if he had killed himself it would probably well known. and i can't find any page that says he died. so the yakuza probably killed him