DOOM and Hayden

"I am not the villain of this story."

Is this true? I mean, he never worked with the demons, that was Olivas thing. Hayden actually did his best to make sure there was a plan for if things did go wrong. He clearly didn't believe or encourage her cult bullshit. All Hayden seems to care about is solving the Earth energy crisis.

What if DOOM II has an underlying theme of Doomguy trying to stop the demons and killing them at any cost, but in the background you can notice how his actions affect good, normal people?
Since Doomguy destroyed the energy converters rather than carefully taking them out like Hayden wanted, Earth is no longer going to get deliveries of the energy. That shit is going to spark wars once supplies run low.

Hayden actually seems to be a relatively good guy.

Hitler never directly killed any jews.

Hayden never indirectly killed anyone

Nigga please

>in the background you can notice how his actions affect good, normal people?
Would anyone really care?

Why should Doom do the same garbage BvS and Spec Ops? What purpose would that really serve? It wouldn't make the story any deeper, and since it would probably be handled poorly it would just seem pretentious.

>DIRECTLY SENT MARINES TO HELL TO RETRIEVE DOOM GUY RESULTING IN THEIR DEATHS, WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE THAT NO ONE HAD EVER GONE TO HELL AND RETURNED

A couple hundred thousand died of starvation when the allies cut most supply lines.

He definitely had a portion of the responsibility as a caretaker. You can't take people into your custody and then fail to maintain their wellbeing.

if no one has ever come back from Hell then how did they get the original Doomguy out of Hell?

Technically the Earth energy crisis is just caused by humanity being stupid.

Doomguy is killing demons because they fuck up everything they get near.

Doomguy knows that tapping into Argent isn't a good, clean source of energy to "unlock humanity's potential to be even bigger couch potatoes that reproduce without restraint and consume resources they squander and proceed to throw away in waste", it's just giving demons a convenient way into more territory.

Hayden is merely profiteering.

There is a difference between ordering soldiers to undertake a dangerous mission, and ordering civilians killed.

A portal, and obviously Hayden came back. Unless you don't count him as a person (which honestly why would you)

Hayden went with them and helped bring Doomguy back along with at least 6 of the squad. Its not like he just sent them in.

Is D44M a sequel to the other ones?
Os is it a reboot?
I only played 1 and 2 but I think 3 is before 1, right?

Basically Hayden is only a good guy because he caused Doomguy to breakout.
Otherwise demons would go un-slaughtered and they'd take over the universe.

For scientific persuits, the possibility of suppressing/destroying demons while expanding into space/time could be seen as a good cause but in this universe demons possess and control everything by effectively having the power of reality on their side, and Doomguy is a special exception where the equivalent of God gave him armour to resist those powers.

his exact words describing doomguy are "only flesh and blood to travel between worlds"obviously hayden has no flesh and blood

also, if you read the logs apparently most of olivia's big projects with the cult stuff was when hayden was still recovering from moving to his robo body and couldnt really oversee or stop her till it was too late iirc

>Doomguy knows

Are you insane? Doomguy doesn't know shit, he just doesn't care if Earth gets fucked up, all he wants is to kill more demons, all the demons. He is the Warrior of Doom, unending rage so strong that nothing but infinite, eternal genocide can placate.

Doom 3 is an irrelevant isolated story.

Doom 4 makes even fan MegaWADs canon, because after Doom 2 Doomguy just endlessly kills demons and finds more demons to endlessly kill before finding more demons etc. etc.

The codex directly says no one came back except Hayden and Doomguy. The hologram shows them fighting at the portal to return.

DOOM is a sequal to Doom 1, 2 and 64. Doom 3 is a retelling of the Doom 1 story

He surely must know because he's been at UAC lab after UAC lab after UAC lab and one time he got an office job and the building got raided by demons so he killed them all while reassuring his mother he was fine and then he found another UAC lab

Put short, he's seen humanity getting completely fucked raw by demons so many times it's a fact of life.

Thank you guys!

Okay, if we talking about Doom lore seriously, what was all that "weaponizing demons" thing about? Like what, did they assemble revenants in the labs and then set them free?

Hayden became a cyborg decades before Argent Plasma and Mars.

Does anyone have the developers tweet?

"Doomguy traveled between worlds and dimensions". D44M Doom Doom 2 Doom 3 it's all possible realities happening concurrently, simultaneously, or never.

D44M is a direct sequel to the previous doom games with the exception of doom 3, which wasn't related to the rest of the doom games.

One thing that's clear in Doom 4 is that Doomguy is like Hell's equivalent of the bogeyman, so much they had to trap him.

I don't actually recall Doom 3 Marine ever putting on a helmet, yet he goes outdoors.

On the surface that's all Olivias doing but again, it calls into question what people are saying in this thread that Hayden simply had no idea what was happening when massive amounts of infrastructure and funding were being poured into very clearly Hell Worship

>tfw Terry WADS are canon

I think all the "THE UAC! HUMANITIES FUTURE! REMEMBER, THE BLIND COUNCIL IS ALWAYS WATCHING. LEVEL UP TO MEET SAGES etc" shit that made it obviously cult like was sort of invisible to normal people in a mindfucky way, like the demonic presence was warping the message so instead of people being concerned they don't even register the red flags.
Also makes a great B Movie sense of humour.

But Doom Marine can be an alien for all we know, right?

>because after Doom 2

You mean DOOM 64. After Doom 2 Doomguy just kind of chills out. It's the ending of DOOM 64 where doomguy just decides to stay in hell and endlessly rip and tear.

I don't recall Doom 3 ever being good

The tier 1 advocate stuff is creepy but not overt.

Everything above tier 2 is plainly cult worship.

I've never beaten 64 and I forgot to resume my save.
I think it might have been me clearing a huge chunk of level only to forget to save that did me in. It seems to go on a LOT longer even on a PC source port version in addition to being harder, not really getting the same satisfaction as with Ultimate Doom.

He is more like an ancient god.

wrong, his body runs on argent

>yfw hdoom is canon now

But this is the thing. it looks like Hell and the demons are not supernatural. It's more like Hell is a dimension. I don't think there is God or Satan in Doom, only science fiction and aliens.

There is some creatures more powerfull tahn the demons that have "paladins" to protect them and protect from them, if I remember correctly.

>Is this true?

Obviously. The villain was Olivia (or the demons I guess).

He'll be the villain in the sequel (fuck you id for not making an expansion).

his body runs on argent NOW but not when constructed

>Otherwise demons would go un-slaughtered and they'd take over the universe.

Who's to say that somebody else wouldn't do what it takes and becomes another Doomguy.

Because that would require them to have a suit of combat armor thats decades old but is somehow more useful than the current models. I mean, it still uses glass in the helmet! How primitive

He didn't even have a helmet in the first Doom, mate.

It's not the armor, it's the man.

>He didn't even have a helmet in the first Doom

they didnt send marines lol

it was robots like the elite guard, which weren't human

hayden directly states that Doomguy is the only flesh and blood that has ever successfully gone through the portal.

hayden never directly killed anyone or ordered them to die for him. hayden did nothing wrong.

You're wrong,
They were humans.
Doomguy is the only flash and blood that has ever succesfully survived the trip and came back.

There is literally a hologram showing what I said.

>Hell is DOOM is actually an alien dimension

Is this because of controversy? because that's fucking retarded, maybe that's why i didn't found a single pentagram or upside down cross in the game.

Its like replacing the nazi swastika in Wolfenstein with an "X"

No blatant anti-christian symbolism but there was plenty of Pagan with pentagrams.

Pentagrams are kind of targeting reticles for demons teleporting in actually, along with rune trials teleporting Doomguy to a trial with a pentagram.

>single pentagram or upside down cross in the game.
Did you not look at the walls?

>there are demons
>but no angels

wasted opportunity
if the game wasnt as mediocre it would have last levels have take palce in Heven like diablo 3
now that would be something after the hell levels rather than coming back to the labs

and you clearly dont understand the difference between directly and indirectly.

IT'S OVER DOOMGUY, I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND

You underestimate my powerups.

It was this since day one. Of course, you would only know about if you payed attention to the story, which 90% of people didn't.

> i didn't found a single pentagram

Does this count?

>tfw no game where you can beat up angels and rip their wings off

Samuel and Olivia were profiteering by exploiting the energy resources of Hell. Due to the strange nature of Hell's energy, Olivia was corrupted and influenced by it and by the time Samuel noticed anything was wrong, it was too late.

But Samuel literally rebuilt himself using Argent energy. He was corrupted as well, only he doesn't realize it. They're both victims, and both villains.

Also if you listen to the UAC propaganda, it becomes clear that the employees are literally sacrificed as the final step of the cult's program. Hell's energy comes from the souls that are sent to it. The UAC powers mankind by sending brainwashed people into a meat grinder. There aren't many ways you could spin that as a positive.

>347679646
wowwwwwww thanks for the spoiler guy

There is Bayonetta

...

>Due to the strange nature of Hell's energy

Why did it have anything to do with argent energy? Could have just been a normal 'lust for power' deal.

What spoiler exactly?

Hayden gets a giant red sword?

Statute of limitations, nigger.

Argent energy mutated all the guards and staff into Possessed and such, which is a horrific alteration of biology to enable demons to enter reality through life forms.
It's like Lovecraft stuff. People are like gloves for entities.

Why not? It's not like Doom has ever had a fantastic premise. Is any premise worse than the other?

>Argent energy mutated all the guards and staff into Possessed and such

It did that when Olivia activated the Lazarus wave, which is what she intended.

As far as I recall it was never made clear that her seduction by the forces of Hell was due to her exposure to Argent energy. It could very well be a "My shitty body is lame and I want a fresh new one, mr disembodied demon voice."

I mean I'm not shitting on the idea and it doesn't really matter what it ends up being but as far as I know it's up in the air.

>Hell is anarchy, chaos, and spontaneous rage
>Heaven is authoritarian dictatorship of absolute order, with a rigidly enforced facade of kindness and happiness

I like this idea already

>mr disembodied demon voice

That's "Mr. Shadow" to you, Zorg.

This
Doomguy is not the only flesh and blood that went through the portal, demons are flesh and blood too. Many used the portal but they tend to never return because of Doomguy.

He's the only flesh and blood that went to hell, came back, went to hell again and back again.

i dont get it. wheres the pentagram. is this one of those hidden secret image things

Have you ever seen the Doom box art? A helmet was absolutely part of the uniform.

I was thinking of the health meter.

I guess that could very well just be a view inside the helmet.

>Ripping off Diablo 3 would have made the game better
Please never make video games

>its not a helmet
>this is the doomguys ACTUAL face

christ no wonder he made it through hell and back, his face is uglier then sin

The alpha had an actual helmet UI

>Diablo 3

>Implying that Diablo 1 and 2 didn't have angels

Izual doesn't count.

Is the startup janky as fuck for anyone else? For some reason that bethesda intro logo runs at like 2 fps. Game is smooth sailing though

Hayden didn't get corrupted though. He's a robot, robots don't get corrupted. He's just not entirely sentient. He's an unbelievably complicated machine, coded to behave exactly as real Hayden would. He can feel and learn, but he can't change his initial code. Basically, Human Hayden believed that demons would be easily defeated because he didn't see what they can do. Robo Hayden did, but even if he knows that the argent energy is unviable, he can't destroy the link to hell because that would end the flow of argent, which would go against his primary purpose - to act like Samuel Hayden would.

Sure this is a bit more convoluted than the "Hayden is greedy and he thinks he can contain hell and extract energy on his own" theory. Also it explains why Hayden releases Doomguy at the end. Neither robo Hayden nor greedy Hayden would kill Doomguy, assuming it's possible, since he's the only thing that can stop hell if shit hits the fan. But Doomguy couldn't move when he was tied with the tether. Greedy Hayden would just keep Doomguy trapped so he couldn't interfere in his plans. If he thought hell is out of control, Doomguy would be released, he would cull the demons and get dragged back to his cage so Hayden could continue grabbing all he can. Releasing him would just create unnecessary risk.

Robo Hayden that knows demons will fuck shit up can't destroy the portals because his code prevents him from doing it, so he goes around it by releasing Doomguy in a random part of Mars. He knows Doomguy will find his way back and stop hell for him. Obviously, Doomguy won't be satisfied with demons and will try to sever any links to hell, so robo Hayden will have to stop him eventually, but he will exploit his code again by giving Doomguy a possibility of success, like tethering him up next to a convenient BFG.

That's my autistic headcanon

I dunno man, I'd rather have rolling blackouts than the entire earth getting destroyed by demons and every soul being trapped in hell forever.

Haydens brain is inside the robot. Its not a robot version of Hayden, it IS Hayden

I wish this fucking game actually ran on my pc. It's not even a problem of resources, i can handle it 1080p/60fps just fine but the motherfucker just BSOD my shit every single time. Never had this problem before with any game.

>mfw