There is no way in hell you can rationalize doing stupid pointless side quests instead of immediately finding Shaun...

There is no way in hell you can rationalize doing stupid pointless side quests instead of immediately finding Shaun. Shaun is an infant. He needs my attention NOW. Putting aside the blatantly obvious plot twist that Shaun is an old man, there is no realistic way that a concerned parent would willingly forgo the opportunity to find what happened to their child. This goes doubly so if you chose the female character. And in the introduction to the game you and your spouse are happily living together and taking care of Shaun so there is no way you can shove that aside and "roleplay/headcanon pretend" that the character you choose to play as is a terrible parent who does not care or that waking up in the post-war era has changed you or any other bullshit you can make up or that you simply don't want to know.

Because of this very narrow fixed narrative and these very reasons i mentioned above you can not roleplay as anything other than the predetermined character brought forth in the introduction to the game.

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Codsworth lays it out for you. It's made very clear at the start of the game that you didn't just wake up the day after your fucking wife was shot, son abducted, and life fucked up. Did you play the game?

I generally agree, though I do think that, when building a suitable life is contingent with finding Shaun, excuses can be made such that the protagonist can dabble in base-building, particularly when it allows him to follow leads. In my first playthrough, I received a quest to clear out Hangman's Alley and to help Oberland Station right as I began approaching Boston proper. It worked out well, giving me a supportive settlement and a base to build within the city.

Saddling you with a child you have to find definitely constricts you in the RP department, though it's a combination of factors (pre-war life, occupation, incredibly limited character-building options, terrible dialogue interface/design, etc.) that make true RP nearly impossible.

yes this was a widely discussed issue with the game and you are like 2 months late

congrats though

At survival difficulty plus some combat mods it becomes necessary to stock up on resources and build up your strength to fight your way through to your son. Meeting the minute men happened as you tried to find him, helping them gets you a vague clue where to go next. Any quest you do can be seen as your character either having an innate need to help those in need, or doing it for caps, loot, or the belief that they can help your search.

>survival
why would you want to add more menial chores to delay your progress in an already shit game?

New Vegas did it to make the game feel more real because of the Mojave desert atmosphere.

>Survival
>First version of it just adjusted damage and slowed down healing item use
>Used it, enjoyed it since I can't just spam stimpacks anymore.
>Few weeks later
>Update comes around, adding in the ammo weight and hunger mechanics
>Suddenly I weigh 7000 pounds, I'm dying of hunger and dehydration, and I'm somehow addicted to a drug I haven't taken in in-game days
>I'm balls deep in a vault full of Gunners in an active firefight
>Die within seconds of loading
>Go to turn off Survival so I can offload some of my stuff and just survive in general
>Am told that if I ever turn off Survival I will never be able to turn it back on again

Bethesda really went out of their way to make it as tedious as possible. The game was built around fast travel and the engine practically requires regular saving, but God forbid you utilize either of those resources.

why do you have to be in charge of everything and do every single thing in the game? there are people standing around all day doing nothing in your settlements while you accept hundreds of quests in this game.

i feel like the reason why things are so bad in the Commonwealth is because nobody actually does anything and they just leech off of previous achievements.

i almost feel sympathetic for the Institute and agree with eradicating these incompetent retards if they weren't just as idiotic themselves.

there should be an option to just destroy every faction and just kill everyone you want in the Commonwealth and rebuild it however you want.

Maybe i'm not a great parent? Jesus christ take a fucking chill pill. I can see both of my parents becoming easily distracted and they're WASPs. Maybe my MC was a black teenage babby daddy? what then?

There is a very small percent chance of ever finding your kid.

Think of it more like trying to figure out what happened while subconsciously knowing that he is most likely dead.

but they are both responsible. replay the intro again.

Some people just handle stress poorly. I could go on a long rant trying to justify an irresponsible parent RP but whats the point? If you can't even imagine someone being irresponsible in a post apocalyptic wasteland then you already have the imagination of my father.

>The SS just assumed no time passed after being refrozen, and went out expecting to find a baby

Who wrote this garbage?

>RP
but that's the thing. You can't roleplay in this game. You'll always be a concerned parent and you will always look for Shaun.

>game heavily focused on story
>expect not to have ludonarrative dissonance

top kek

you're wrong. it heavily focuses on crafting, settlements, and exploring. story is something they whipped up to meet the deadline.

They probably wanted to fit in with Dark Souls

>WE WANT HARDCORE MODE
>hardcore gets put in
>WOW IT'S SO FUCKING MENIAL WHY WOULD YOU EVEN PLAY ON HARDCORE

Truly video game players are the most entitled people.

I felt like it gave you enough "yelling, jackass" options to play it off pretty easily as a revenge-seeking thug. Look, the story and dialogue are garbage. Its not that hard to just ignore some of it here and there for the sake of whatever kind of pc youre trying to run.

>you can't roleplay in this game
translation
>I can't personally roleplay in this game, therefore no one can

I'll play a gunslinger if I want to and roleplay as such, I'll play a smartypants scientist if I want to and roleplay as such, I'll play a dumb as fuck raider and roleplay as such.

Just because you personally can't get into it, doesn't mean it's impossible.

I role play as a milf who wants to go find her son but is immediately apprehended by bandits and turned into a sex slave

you play the same character no matter what because there are no low-intelligence dialogue and no consequences to having 1 point to any SPECIAL stat. in fact there are no consequences to anything you do in this game.

Maybe you shouldn't suck as much.

>Its not that hard to just ignore

Fallout 4 siding scratch the itch. What are games like Fallout New Vegas?

What, broken upon shipment?

Try No Man's Sky.

>Game engine is a crashey piece of shit that requires a lot of game saving
>Survival restrain game saving

>Game have a settlement system
>Survival make it nearly impossible to build settlements. Survival make it nearly impossible to defend your settlements, since there is no fast travel

Ayy Lmao

Roll playing doesn't necessarily mean creating a character yourself from scratch. The backstory isn't the part of FO4 that kills it being an rpg; the part that does that is 90% of the time you can't say no or shift a conversation

>Basicly, "FO4 is a bad game: The thread"

I don't know why people keep making this thread we all know the game sucks and even with the Creation Kit released, there doesn't seem to be any promises

I remember like 5 things about this game that i felt were done right but that's it. Even replaying it just to shoot stuff around feels like a chore, there is no sequence break unless you deliberately unlock locations used in future quests

I doubt the FO series has an entry for a very long time. I'd go as far as to say they will probably let another team handle a spin-off or something

Obviously I would prefer if the dialogue and plot were better and more cohesive. But they're not. I'm not defending it, but its pretty autistic to feel obligated to be a "responsible parent" throughout your entire playthrough just because you got the fucker some milk during the first 30 seconds of the game.

Actually, yes it does matter, a bit of the roleplaying potential is lost because of the stupid introduction (Not as offensive as FO3 but still horrible)

I think the kidnap plot is actually not that bad (As a concept, the fact that they take the baby and shoot everyone in the vault but you is really stupid), because it is basicly a glorified version of the FO1 and 2 plot without the time limit

I think they SHOULD have given you the chance to say "Well, my baby might aswell be dead" even if you know it is not, give you the chance to pretend you are alone in the world now

I can keep going but man, i just give up trying to constantly bitch about the game, Bethesda really did a good job advertising the shit out of this game and raping the lore

I hope the franchise dies so we can have a more competent team developing a game, or at least i'd like to see an alternative similar to the FO universe

That's a big problem in so many RPG's though. Downtime is really important and the player needs to not have stuff they have pressing need to attend to for it to work.

Quicksaving trivializes anything though. And only casuals fast travel in open world games.

...

You know, the writers from FO1 and 2 really put a lot of thought into shit, the ones from NV did so too

You lose something in the game if there is billions of inconsistencies on your story, it is an RPG for christ sake, you can't have an inconsistent lore

So just tell yourself that 1-2-NV was essentially a trilogy of games that is now over. If Bethesda wants to make spinoffs that you do or do not enjoy, who cares?

There are tons of ways. The obvious realization that Shaun must have aged to a large degree and likely doesn't know you exist, the sacrifice of your own concerns for the greater good of the Wasteland, or even the freedom and power that being a militarily-skilled individual in a post-apocalyptic wasteland brings

That's not the point, OP made a thread about FO4 and we are discussing FO4

If we all adopted the "who cares" mentality then why does Sup Forums exist in the first place

Fallout 4 is not an immersive game about exploring the wastes though. It's a "go here, kill this, find stuff" game, like Farcry

>they take the baby and shoot everyone in the vault but you
Wrong, everyone else dies because they shut down the cryochambers, they didn't want anybody but the main samples (Shaun and the separate parent) surviving

>not roleplaying as a weary housewife who married to early, throwing away all her opportunities, who never wanted a kid anyway, that leaps at the chance to be rid of all that dead weight in an accident which 'couldn't be helped'

which is why the game is TRASH as an RPG. you are shoehorned into a position that role playing is severly limited. since you start pre-war, and the dialogue is so limited (and all based around the character being pre-war) you can not very effectively role play as anything other than "suburban mom/dad thrown into apocalypse". It gets so stale so fast, Im waiting for an all text based dialogue overhaul, turns off all voice acting and allows variation in the same degree as games like fallout 1 and 2, then maybe it will be more than just an action game.

Yes FO4 is a trash RPG. Nobody argues this.
It's a fun rooty tooty point n shooty though, and that's coming from someone who jacks off NV to no end

That is something that bothers me, they don't shoot the people in the Cryo stations, but they shut down the pods where the people is sleeping

Somehow you are fine but everyone else isn't? They are frozen too when you check them

This game just suffers from a worse case than FO3 syndrome, you literally have to create another story for the game to be fun and to give you meaningful choices

There is just no alternative way to tackle the main plot other than either joining the Institute or destroying it

It is allways
Diamond City -> Nick Valentine -> Kellogg -> Vergil -> Courser -> Join Institute/Destroy Institute

There is literally no way around it. the only sequence break you can do is rescuing Nick Valentine before you get to Diamond City and finding locations ahead of time so you can fast travel to them

How about the fact that on survival you can only save when sleeping and can't fast travel and have to deal with a poorly coded piece of shit engine that can spontaneously crash at any time without warning, potentially losing you hours of real time progress?

How did you know you needed to scoop Kellogg's brain and get his memory chip?

Imagine the Sole Survivor just reaching in and plucking the brain out of his head because "oh i might need this for later you never know"

I think Nick Valentine comments that you should search Kellogg, or maybe the terminal that is on the room when you kill him says something about it

It is just a stupid excuse to add that stupid "searching the past" sequence later on. I still wonder why they bothered with that

Yes, in fact, I spent an hour looking for a way to unthaw them, since they don't LOOK dead, they look frozen.

I googled it and was super pissed that I couldn't start civilization with Vault Dwellers that would look to me as a leader.

Then the choice would be: Do you look for Shaun, abandoning these people to Raiders in order to do so, or Do you go after Shaun and settlement building is way harder to get into?

>There is no way in hell you can rationalize doing stupid pointless side quests instead of immediately finding Shaun. Shaun is an infant. He needs my attention NOW.

There was absolutely no proof that Sean would even still be alive when you awoke from cryo. The first thing that ran through my mind when I did the opening was how many years have passed since Sean got stolen?

I honestly thought they were going to go with a whole search for your son with the kicker being he died a long time ago as a hero. Instead what I got was shit factions with forced as fuck animosity towards each other and some trash ass your son is evil but he thinks he good and now he has carcinogenic pancreas and is dying.

Felt so fucking good loading n old save and blowing his damn head off.

you think they thought out Fallout 4?

they're literally stealing ideas from New Vegas mods

>>read half your post
>>playing f4 right now building glorious settlements.
I'm having fun.

searching him doesn't mean "reach into his skull and pull out a chip". How did you even know what you needed to do with it? And how convenient that there just so happens to be machines that allow you to view previous memories? You might as well rename the Memory Den "The Plot Device". it's too much.

and that's the point. Any concerned parent would spend their whole lives looking for what happened to their missing child. Doesn't matter if they're dead or alive, they just want closure. Just try and take away a baby from a new mom.

What if it was, like, sticking out of his head? Or, like, when you shot him in the head, the chip popped out like toast from a toaster. SO of course you'd grab it.

what if you killed him with a mini-nuke?

you can't assume something without evidence.

The chip is the only thing to survive atomic annihilation, along with his clothes, his revolver, some ammo, a stimpack...

because "the old man" wanted you alive as a backup :^)

>fast travel turned off
>forced to trek through shit you already cleared for a 5 minute walk to town and back.
>multiple perks ingame that become useless in survival mode.
>climbing someplace high? OOPS looks like your companion clipped through the ground, hope you can drop down to heal him or he fucks off back to town.
>OOPS looks like your companion walked off the edge of something and fell. hope you can drop down to heal him or he fucks off back to town.
>OOPS you bumped into a car, better hope it doesn't instantly kill you wasting an hour or progress.

did I miss anything?

Does a first playthrough of New Vegas need any mods, or is it best to just go vanilla?

exactly how I felt which is why I didn't buy it

Vanilla, bug fixes and anti-crash stuff if you want.
That way you can easily figure out what you want to mod when the time comes.

Much obliged.

No problem.
Just use these
nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/51664/?
nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/53635/?
nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/55061/?
and then check out restored content mods if you want everything that was originally intended to be in the game.

Mind you, you will need a mod manager.
If you have any problems, ask away in /cfog/ on /vg/, they'll be more than happy to help you out.

>d that's the point. Any concerned parent would spend their whole lives looking for what happened to their missing child. Doesn't matter if they're dead or alive, they just want closure. Just try and take away a baby from a new mom.

its shit writing bro. Having Kellog and your baby get their heads blown off by a no name raider just after leaving the vault, and turning the find sean into just taking down the institute would have been better writing, simply by virtue of such a thing being plausible by the fallout universe standards. Finding a baby after awakening from cryo sleep into a post nuclear wasteland is implausible, and the contrived coincidences and "steps" you have to take in order to succeed in your goal shows just how retarded such a narrative is in the first place.

Its not even that fucking hard writing a passable story. So long as your story avoids these three traps then chances are its decent at worse.

>story is full of plotholes
>story is full of contrived coincidences
>craft the story around a single/certain scenes that plays out well in the writers head.

Hitting even just one of those traps turns your story into complete shit, but the Finding Sean narrative managed to hit all three. Not that it matters in the end since FO4 made a gorillon dollars, and the writers have shown that they can't deal with criticism.

Also get No Killing Karma Rewards, exact name, and some mod that changes Powder Gang loot to not be stealing. Cause both things are dumn.

They're worthwhile, but not immediately necessary to a playthrough.

it's not about what you know, it's about what the Sole Survivor knows. Why else are you forced to go through all that trouble waving magic wands and jumping through hoops? The game doesn't care that you already know all that and insultingly assumes the player is an idiot.

i read somewhere that the Powder Gang stuff actually belongs to the NCR and someway somehow you are stealing from them as well. It's stupid I know.

Right but I still recommend it because it's dumb and I hate it.

Dumb like this guy mentions

what makes these games sell so well that you have idiots defending this bullshit by ignoring things and rationalizing them with headcanon?

Some people even believe roleplaying means making up fan theories and headcanon to cover up plotholes and inconsistencies.

Why does his face look like that?

he got too close to the FEV that Vault-Tec acquired

Thats the only proper way to play FO4

Survival mode in Fallout 4 is fucking great. You actually have to plan out what you're going to go because you can't just rush into things and keep reloading a save from 5 minutes ago until you finally get lucky and win. I found myself taking things slow at first because it was either that, or risk losing hours of gameplay because you were careless. It really made finding a treasure trove and a bed in the wasteland have weight, because now you feel relief that you can rest and save your game.

No fast travel is also good, because now you essentially have to explore the world and look for supplies. It also makes things like teleporting to the Institute and vertibird grenades feel great, because they come at the right time in the game and really feel like a reward for surviving this long.

If Sup Forums actually cared about vidya and didn't just keep trying to always fit into the "Sup Forums hates everything" meme, they would be able to admit that the new survival mode was one of the few things Fallout 4 did right. Unfortunately you'll all just keep insisting that New Vegas' hardcore mode was somehow better, despite it basically being a joke in comparison to Fallout 4's survival mode.

I can deal with the absence of fast travel even if the game's quests simply weren't designed with it in mind, but the lack of any save but the sleep save is fucking moronic, especially when the game penalizes you for maintaining an irregular sleep cycle. The game is full of bugs and absolutely bullshit scenarios where you will die and you will lose progress. It's not like DKS where encounters and the world at large are designed around save points. It's an idiotic, ludicrously punishing feature that only increases tedium. If they wanted to make "death matter," they should've just done what several popular mods already have and implemented a death alternative where you lose resources and potentially find yourself in an even more dangerous situation.

That's the point of survival mode: You have to rethink the way you approach the game. You can't just rush into things anymore like you used to. The whole idea is to make it seem more realistic, and to essentially force you to take things slower than usual. Bethesda succeeded in that regard. It's not perfect, but it's probably the closest we'll get to perfect.

>The game is full of bugs and absolutely bullshit scenarios where you will die and you will lose progress.

Again, that's why you have to change the way you play the game. It's not like New Vegas was free from these bugs and scenarios, either. The only difference is you could save and reload literally at any time, so those scenarios didn't have any real weight to them. Fallout 4's survival mode forces you to play more tactically, which means it feels even better when you finally level up enough to where you can roam around without worrying too much about dying at the hands of some raiders or a pack of radscorpions.

the game was shit before hardcore mode

why can't you just accept fallout 4 is bad and you have bad taste for liking it, what's so hard about it?

I liked Fallout 4. I'm just telling you this because no amount of insults will stop me from liking it, and it's fun watching you get angry at people enjoying things you don't like.

I kind of got that vibe from Witcher 3 when I would veer off and do like 15 hours of contracts and side quests instead of finding Ciri, especially after finding out from Whoreson Junior that he shot her with a bolt before she disappeared. Or even sooner when the Crones said they tasted her blood.

At least the side quests and contracts were fun and immersive to the point of distraction from the main quest. Unlike Fallout 4

Then again, Ciri is an adult with a sword and magic powers and Geralt doesn't even know if she's on the same continent. Unlike Fallout 4.

>man i sure love eating shit haha you guys are retards for hating my fetish

Stay mad.

Stay cucked.

At least I have a girlfriend.

If the mechanics alone do not change the way I approach the game, then it has failed as a game mode. Depriving the player of the ability to play at their own pace while offering no reward for doing so is not sound design. There's nothing satisfying about losing a session's worth of progress; on the contrary, it's incredibly frustrating - particularly when you were killed either by a bug or an enemy that rounded the corner with a Fat Man and killed you both. It makes certain playstyles downright miserable and discourages experimentation. It does not add more to the experience than it detracts. Fallout 4 was not designed with saving restrictions in mind. Survival mode did not tweak encounters such that the restrictions provided a reasonable challenge. It's a mess that makes the entire game mode unappealing.

so uh how did your character know to dig around in captain crunch's brain after nuking him to death at the fort

besides cheating and reading the script ahead of time

I didn't complete the main quest until about 200 hours in
I just wanted to fuck around so as soon as I figured out about the institute I rationalized "well I'll probably want to brave the wastes for a while and get experienced before taking on this boogeyman everyone is afraid of"

You can't roleplay either way, OP, nothing allows for it.

NOTHING

>If the mechanics alone do not change the way I approach the game, then it has failed as a game mode.
But it does? I just explained how it changes the way you play.

>There's nothing satisfying about losing a session's worth of progress; on the contrary, it's incredibly frustrating - particularly when you were killed either by a bug or an enemy that rounded the corner with a Fat Man and killed you both.
On the contrary, it is extremely satisfying when you do make progress. Sure, it's incredibly difficult at first, but that's the point. You have to take it slow and essentially spend a good amount of time just building a base, gathering supplies, and slowly gaining whatever XP you can.

People complain about game protagonists being able to do everything and advance through the game like it's nothing, but now here's a mode that forces you to earn your way through the game like one would realistically do, and now you're complaining about it?

>It makes certain playstyles downright miserable and discourages experimentation.
Explain which playstyles suffer from being played in survival mode. Besides, there's literally nothing stopping you from just playing the game on regular mode. Survival mode is meant to be a challenge, not a requirement.

>Fallout 4 was not designed with saving restrictions in mind. Survival mode did not tweak encounters such that the restrictions provided a reasonable challenge.
Sounds like you need to git gud

FO4 literally cannot exist without extreme amounts of contrivances due to the dogshit writing.

I mean shit, just look at Nick's companion quest. Now that is some absolutely fucking silly contrivance for everything to occur as it does. And Bethesda plays it perfectly straight.

I immediately knew things would be terrible when the protagonist and family stare directly at a full scale nuke detonation without anything happening. Bethesda only cares about "cool" and "wacky" situations, not meaningful or developing writing/narrative.

Nick and Doctor Amari are some characters who make these incredulous leaps with little to no information at all.

>what the fuck was that blue flashing light
>IT'S TELEPORTING. THAT'S IT. THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO EXPLAIN IT.

and somehow you find a way to build a machine yourself out of garbage

>That bit at the end of that shit where "Kellog" speaks through Nick momentarily
>This shit is never brought up again or developed any further, Nick seems to treat it as a joke

>hotkey purified water, which will become easier to get once you start building settlements as supply spots
>plan out where youre going, moving target and endurance make moving around easier
>actual tension in an area since you cant just quicksave every second
>avoiding battles becomes common
My issue with any rpg is that theres no reason for me the player to not kill everything in sight for the exp, any game that can get me in the mindset of "better not risk it" is decent roleplaying for me

>I just explained how it changes the way you play.
Taking away your ability to save is not a mechanic in and of itself; needs, diseases, addictions, etc. are all mechanics. They are inherently additive or transformational, as opposed to reductive. If survival's new mechanics alone are not enough to make me change the way I play the game (even though they are), then the game mode isn't very compelling.

>it is extremely satisfying when you do make progress.
It should be satisfying either way; the saving restriction does not make the game any more difficult, just more punishing - and that's a very important distinction. You don't have to work any harder to prevail, but you do have to work through all the mundanity again - the walking, the scavenging, the scrapping, the building - and for what? Another shot at the same five-minute firefight? That's not satisfying, that's tedious. Incredibly so.

>People complain about game protagonists being able to do everything and advance through the game like it's nothing, but now here's a mode that forces you to earn your way through the game like one would realistically do, and now you're complaining about it?
One strawman after another with that claim, eh? No one here is complaining about the feats the SS is capable of pulling off and survival doesn't change what they're capable of. The save restriction does not force you to earn your way through the game so much as it makes you slog through the same boring bullshit again and again - it doesn't actually make the game more challenging.

>Explain which playstyles suffer from being played in survival mode.
A melee berserker type character is almost unplayable despite its viability in regular mode. Penalties from addiction and the inevitable damage make it incredibly unrewarding simply because of how often you'll be dying.

>Besides, there's literally nothing stopping you from just playing the game on regular mode.
I'm a simulationist, and I appreciate the needs...(cont)

mechanics and other features like diseases, more powerful addictions, improved damage, etc. Those are valuable additions overall but they're not worth the sheer tedium of the save restrictions.

>Sounds like you need to git gud
Again, you realize that Survival did not make these encounters any harder, right? It just made them more punishing, and in a very inorganic, hamfisted way. That's not good design no matter how you cut it - it's awkward and unwieldy. It's not as though the game is taking something away from my character like in Souls, it's just outright nullifying whatever time I had invested. And that's not fun, rewarding, or engaging.

>Taking away your ability to save is not a mechanic in and of itself;
But it doesn't take that away. You can still save, but only at a bed. It makes finding a place to sleep feel much more gratifying, in that you now feel relief that you've found a place to rest, as opposed to simply staving it off indefinitely in NV with coffee, atomic cocktails, etc. Of course, you'd probably complain if they kept saving whenever, and you'd probably claim it's "too easy".

>If survival's new mechanics alone are not enough to make me change the way I play the game (even though they are), then the game mode isn't very compelling.
If it doesn't appeal to you, just don't play it. I can't stress that enough. Survival mode is supposed to be a challenge. I understand if you don't like it, but again, it's purely optional.

>You don't have to work any harder to prevail, but you do have to work through all the mundanity again - the walking, the scavenging, the scrapping, the building - and for what? Another shot at the same five-minute firefight? That's not satisfying, that's tedious. Incredibly so.
Have you actually tried planning out what you're going to do next? It really isn't even that hard, so long as you plan it out.

>No one here is complaining about the feats the SS is capable of pulling off and survival doesn't change what they're capable of.
It makes it feel rewarding to you, the player. That's the difference. Instead of just killing everyone and going through the game like it's nothing, previously mundane things like reaching Diamond City or killing a pack of raiders feels rewarding.

>A melee berserker type character is almost unplayable despite its viability in regular mode.
That's the exact type of character I played as and I got through just fine. (Cont)

>Penalties from addiction and the inevitable damage make it incredibly unrewarding simply because of how often you'll be dying.
Those penalties exist in the base game. In fact, they exist in all Fallout games. If anything the penalties are more in-tune with the classic Fallout games (Ex: Radaway having negative effects, the need to find water, etc)

>Again, you realize that Survival did not make these encounters any harder, right? It just made them more punishing, and in a very inorganic, hamfisted way.
If you cannot understand why the mode could potentially feel rewarding to a player, then I honestly don't know what else to say.

I find that the survival save mechanics detract from my enjoyment of the game. As a player who tried to sleep once an evening in game for roleplaying reasons, I suddenly found myself sleeping constantly whenever I found a bed, just so I wouldn't have to repeat content. the inability to save didn't make the game harder for me, it just made it more annoying because I suddenly found my self constantly going back to the nearest settlement after every dungeon instead of continuing the narrative in a fluid way. Again, my problem wasn't that I had to sleep, it was that I had to sleep several times each day in order to avoid repeating the same content over and over, which broke up the fluidity of the narrative and my roleplaying experience.

>But it doesn't take that away.
You're being obtuse. Survival removes quicksaving, hardsaving, and all but one autosave from play.

>Of course, you'd probably complain if they kept saving whenever, and you'd probably claim it's "too easy".
Wow, you just can't help yourself with these strawmen, can you? No, I really wouldn't. I like being able to stop playing whenever I want to; basing my sessions around my character's sleep cycles isn't remotely convenient for me.

>If it doesn't appeal to you, just don't play it.
It is one specific element that doesn't appeal to me; I like/tolerate everything else. If they had made the various aspects of survival toggleable or even made saving alone toggleable, we wouldn't need to have this conversation. Instead, they went out of their way to ensure you cannot work around this restriction by preventing you from ever reactivating the mode on that save file.

>It really isn't even that hard, so long as you plan it out.
You're missing the point - it's not that I have to plan it out (and I do; that's just part of RP). It's having to go through everything else up to that point in case I encounter a bug or die unexpectedly to a stray mininuke or molotov, or I just get tired of playing the game.

>It makes it feel rewarding to you, the player.
Overcoming a challenge is rewarding. Experiencing meaningful progression is rewarding. Having my experience and progress entirely nullified is not rewarding. Having to go through simple, mundane content over and over again is not rewarding. It is frustrating and tedious, and that frustration and tedium far outweighs whatever pleasure I might derive from not experiencing it.

>Those penalties exist in the base game.
Yes, and? Those penalties on their own are manageable, if not more challenging. Having to deal with them and this regular erosion of progress makes the experience downright unenjoyable. (cont)