So are we in agreement here?

So are we in agreement here?
I think this is a pretty solid list.

Nah Dark Souls 2 improved a lot on ds1 and a lot of those improvements were left out of 3 because of retarded memesters like yourself.

yup, spot on.

This is honestly the best Souls tier list I've seen around here. Good job.

Yes. DaS2 still has a large hipster fanbase on here though.

Dark 2 was a drastic step down, in fact.
Almost every aspect of the gameplay was worse, every aspect of the world was worse, all the bosses sucked, almost every enemy was terribly designed.
It did a few good things, such as popping soul stacks. Most of the positive additions were small, quality of life things.

Move base BB to Fucking Amazing and Old Hunters to Elder God

3 is fucking terrible dude

Nah, you're wrong. I can dump the pastas if you like. But the list of improvements is long and goes ignored by Sup Forums hiveminders because 'durk sulz 2 sux lmao'.

Nah. 2 is terrible, 3 is flawed but good.

des > bb > 3 > 2 > das

>hurr durr hivemind
The DaS2 apologists are here already.

only improvement i can think of is powerstancing

a burning dumpster fire > leukaemia > your wife dying in your arms >>>>> DaS2

Havent played sotfs or das3, otherwise, I agree.

Dark Souls contrarians are the saddest kind. You can tell how someone never played any other Souls game when they think DS2 was good and start making up reasons to base their belief on.

Doesn't fucking matter how many core mechanics were improved if you put them in a shit game.

Fuck off.

Dark Souls 2 Strengths:
>introduced guard break crits
>viable unarmed and fist weapon fighting
>improved bows
>made dual wielding viable and powerstancing
>more variety in magic
>bigger and longer game with more bosses
>more build variety in pvp, less people following cookiecutter meme builds
>more reliable summoning and p2p connectivity in general
>shulva, brume tower and eleum loyce
>can still invade and be invaded in areas you've beaten the boss already
>bonfire ascetics let you access ng+ content and replay bosses without replaying entire game
>much less tedious backtracking
>twinking much less prevalent but still possible
>actually ran at 1080p/60fps out of the box without needing mods to fix
>interesting NPCs (cocky merchant, p8/cr8, navlaan, straid, grandahl, agdayne, etc)
>good level design (bastille, gutter, huntsman's copse, etc)
>Able to use a weapons full moveset in the left hand
>Upgrading shields improved their stats, not just the stability
>Poise wasn't as retarded as in 1 or as useless as in 3
>Really fun NPC invaders where they didn't act like just another enemy
>Getting wet reduced your characters lightning resistance while boosting your fire resistance
>NG+ added new enemies and items
>You could activate several pools of blood at once, resulting in hilarity
>You could be invaded even if you were hollow and if the boss was dead, but at a lower chance
>You could burn an effigy to block invaders, but as a result you blocked summons as well
>Poison builds were not only viable, they were useful
>You could roll in more directions when locked on
>White phantoms couldn't Estus with an invader in the world
>Small soapstones if you wanted help with the area before a boss, without having to Black Crystal to solo the boss

Weaknesses:
>individual levels did not interconnect
>level transitions did not always make perfect, euclidean sense
>was not exactly the same as dark souls 1 therefore it's shit

DS1 > Demon's Souls > DS2 with DLC > DS3 > BB > DS2

(You)

>start making up reasons to base their belief on
A BIT LIKE WHAT YOU'RE DOING RIGHT NOW HUH?

>B Team

>100s of weapons, many of them unique
>over 100 full armour sets, with many different single unique pieces
>A 4th type of magic, and a rebalance of pyromancies to make it scale but keep the ability to use it with low investment
>Power stances, adding 100s of new moves to old item classes
>New item classes, and more fleshed out old item classes like fist weapons and whips
>Many more viable builds in both pve and pvp
>Some of the best and hardest bosses in souls, Dark Lurker, Sinh the Slumbering Dragon, Smelter Demon, Fume Knight, Sir Alonne, Ivory King
>Many different types of PVP that seamlessly intergrate into the main game
>Covenants that seamlessly integrate with the gameplay of the main game
>Actual metroidvania type level choices early game (Undead copse or No-mans Wharf? Or maybe I'll try pursuer again)
>Functioning stat system (stamina isnt OP, nothing like resistance)
>NG+ having many changes from the base difficulty, there are changes up to NG+3
>A vastly improved UI, for example using a grid to display items
>Numerous QoL improvements (using multiple souls at once, 10 items on the quick bar, respeccing, pressing X/A to reveal hidden walls)
>A more interesting weight system
>A far better designed messaging system (creating messages within the menu, removal of orange soapstone, compound messages)
>Small mechanics improvements that greatly influence how the game feels (Running while locked on, aiming with crossbows, sprinting on ladders)
>Many more NPC invasions which are also unmissable because you can be invaded while hollow
>An extreme improvement over the AI of NPC invaders, some of the ones in the dlc are especially impressive
>Functioning pvp arena
>Infusing has huge QoL improvements, you can also infuse shields, bows and staffs
>Every boss drops a boss soul, and every boss soul has multiple weapon/spell posibilities

can we FUCKING STOP making these threads? all it does is incite arguments and nothing ever changes

it's always >

let's talk about how much lords of the fallen sucked instead

>let's talk about how much lords of the fallen sucked instead
there's nothing to talk about
you've already said what everyone thinks about it

Yes, though I didn't find the DS2 dlc that great to make it a better tier.

>100s of weapons, many of them unique
>many of them unique

It'll be a sad, sad day for the world when From manages to top Dark Souls 2. It'd be like Nintendo making an Other M sequel.

>the demon souls is good meme

Bloodborne and Dark 2 are like two sides of a coin.
One favours quality highly over quantity.
The other employs quantity to hide the low quality.

And we can clearly see which approach is better. I honestly feel really bad for the devs who made Dark 2. How embarrassing that must have been, to be so fucked over during development, then working so hard and only having time to make that mess.

Best list I've ever seen. Absolutely perfect.

Dks3 with the dlc will probably bump it up a notch though.

Here, I fixed it for ya.

>Grinding: The Game
Uh huh.

Wrong. Artorias of the Abyss level design wise has nothing on Old Hunters. Bossfights, Ludwig, Maria and Orphan shit all over Kalameet, Manus and Artorias.

Not even comparable. Artorias of the abyss is like one linear map stretch that isn't even that long.

mh fags are pathetic

Demon's:
Pros:
>very immersive and atmospheric
>many interesting bosses
>the freshest at the time due to being the first
Cons:
>lower number of armors and weapons
>subsequent titles have made it seem clunky
>some of the bosses fail pretty hard where they tried to be interesting

Dark Souls
Pros:
>basically took what Demon's did and polished it to a perfect shine
>a lot of variety, many different builds and gimmick builds
>large, interconnected world
>in depth, fascinating lore
Cons:
>later half of the game was rushed
>Lost Izalith is one of the worst areas in video games
>a good handful of bosses that fall flat, some of which are brokenly designed, such as Discharge

Dark Souls 2:
Pros:
>even more variety than Dark Souls
>large amount of DLC content (thought there's still debate that it was originally going to be release content)
>lots of small tweaks to UI and item storage, stackable soul popping etc.
Cons:
>falls flat in pretty much every area
>the gameplay is marred by the bizarre decision to put dead zones into the movement
>many enemies are badly designed, having broken hitboxes that only work after investing into a stat
>much of the writing is embarrassingly bad, seemingly trying hard and failing to imitate the mystery of the first game
>the game world is disjointed, many areas being bland and badly designed, some areas actually overlap
>overall it feels like a lazy attempt to ride the coattails of Dark Souls, although it's largely to do with the development problems

Bloodborne:
Pros:
>the freshest take on the formula, a brand new setting never seen in this series
>faster combat, more about reaction and offense
>interesting new forms of magic
>trick weapons adding a lot of depth to the combat
>interesting world
>the best DLC in the series
Cons:
>had massive load time and framerate issues on release
>blood vial system can at times become broken
>PvP is somewhat shallower than Dark Souls
>Chalice Dugeons feel pointless to the game as a whole

Dark Souls 3:
Pros:
>a much better follow up to Dark Souls, continues the story
>faster combat than previous games, but still retains the ability to slowly work through the game
>seemless world with interesting level design
>many interesting bosses
>pryomancy is the best it has ever been
Cons:
>lol poise
>more linear world
>many weapons are downright less useful due to the combat mechanics
>many parts of the game aren't so memorable

There's a lot more to say about these games, but I just wanted to list some of the main points.

Could you even choose which order to take on the main bosses? I'm pretty sure it was Watchers, Yhorm or Aldrich, Twins. So the only option was Yhorm before or after Aldy?

Abyss Watchers > Yhorm or Aldrich > Twin Princes
The game was a lot more linear, even more so than Bloodborne, and the world was smaller. I didn't mind it so much, but I can definitely see why it would be a turn off, especially considering how open Dark Souls was.

jesus, since all of you can't stop comparing the games for more than an hour how about you focus on something else- powerlevels of the MC

good hunter (ascended) > slayer of demons (bad ending) > ashen one (lord of hollows) > good hunter (sunrise/host of dream) > chosen undead (link the fire/dark lord) > ashen one (link the fire/dark lord) bearer of the curse (crown collector) > bearer of the curse > slayer of demons

>people say darksouls 2 bosses are mostly bad
>casually forget this perfectly describes dark souls 1

DS2 was great, eat shit and die.

Fuck DS2 is probably better than 3 in general.

I definitely liked that you could kill the main 4 of DS2 in any order. You also had pretty good options for DS1, like ringing the bells in either order, then killing any of the 4.

>the cosmos of course
There's no brake to the cringe train I see

1 definitely has the worst bosses

The post was pathetic, but MH is great. Don't be rude while posting pictures of my waifu.

DS2 was good, it was just more focused on variety, so not everything was good, some were bad.
DS3 had fewer armor and weapons, but I think it made better use of them.

2 has only a mall handful of good bosses. Most of them were either almost identical to each other, or badly designed. Shit like Covetous Demon, Mytha, Scorpioness, Last Giant, and the myriad big knight guys.
A few interesting bosses such as Chariot and Vendrick didn't really save the game.
Dark Souls has a couple bosses that are truly abysmal, such as Seath and Bed of Chaos, but most of its bosses are good. Some were easy, like Nito and Pinwheel, but they weren't badly designed.

So you accept that MH is superior, HA! I'm not surprised.

I like MH more, yes, but they're not comparable.

I really didn't like Monster Hunter when I tried it. I don't think it was one single thing I didn't like, just the way the game felt.
I dunno how to put it, but it kind of feels like the game hasn't changed at all since it was on PS2. I played MH3 on 3DS and the whole game was designed like an earlier 3D game. The way the world was set out, the various systems in the game. It all felt too gamey.
Now, you'll just call me retarded for saying a game is too gamey, but I think games should either be blatant game games, or should make some effort to build a world. Tetris or Dark Souls, really. A game like EDF, for example, makes no effort ot seem like a believable world, it's clearly a big dumb game, but MH feels like it falls in the middle. Like some small efforts were made to build a universe, but then they gave up.

>Some were easy, like Nito and Pinwheel, but they weren't badly designed.

Nito was definitely a rushed and unfinished boss. I imagine they ran out of time designing him and didn't have the time budget to include any extra attacks. So they filled the room with skeletons; half of which don't even aggro onto you and the other half of which get killed by Nito's own friendly fire. It feels poorly designed to me.

The fight itself was a bit sucky, but I love Nito for the arena, the music and the general atmosphere.

Name those improvements. If you can.

I honestly really like 3 but I agree with the list.

Although I think Dark Souls is the same with out the DLC

>>NG+ added new enemies and items

not really a positive since it's jsut "DUDE,MORE ENEMIES! LAMO!" and makes Lost Sinner a nightmare

see

It's more of an improvement over an arbitrary increase in enemy health and damage values.

>laundry list of tiny things
>all you need is three or four of the massive, glaring issues to completely discredit all of those things

those are not improvements.

at the price of making an already painful boss even worse.

Dark Souls 2 has a single leg to stand on, and that's being the peak of PVP

>Dark Souls 3 PVP is unfun
>Bloodborne PVP is pretty much nonexistent

Both of those are infinitely better games than 2, but at the same time 2 is the only Souls game post-DaS to have good PVP

No.
Trying to be interesting and then half assing it is worse.

Looks good to me

>shows how ds2 improved on ds1
>gets ignored or meme responses
dont know why you even bothered typing all that, Sup Forums is full of myazaki fags who still think ds1 is the best of all the souls series

>>was not exactly the same as dark souls 1 therefore it's shit

and this strawman nullified your entire post

>Dark Lurker, Sinh the Slumbering Dragon, Smelter Demon, Fume Knight, Sir Alonne, Ivory King
notice how 1 boss is optional and needs a guide to find and 4 of them are behind DLC. Says something about the quality of the bosses if they have to use DLC to name a good boss

>>Every boss drops a boss soul, and every boss soul has multiple weapon/spell posibilities
you mean like in the first game?

>those are not improvements
nice argument

>Dark Souls 2 has a single leg to stand on, and that's being the peak of PVP

which means fuck all

>blood vial system can at times become broken
>PvP is somewhat shallower than Dark Souls
>Chalice Dugeons feel pointless to the game as a whole

Nice try PCuck, NEVER EVER FAGGOT

Not him, but as someone who has Bloodborne as one of my all time favorite games, I'd say those are pretty valid criticisms. The blood vial system can get extremely annoying and tedious when you're having trouble with an area and/or boss and run out of vials, and is then forced to farm for more before resuming your progress. PVP is also pretty much non existent and Chalice Dungeons are a chore.

Those points are all correct. Blood vials are the whole reason the PvP sucks because a PvP session can last half an hour of just circling around and chugging blood vials.
And I didn't hate the Chalice Dungeons as much as some people, but the game definitely would have been better if all the money and time spent on the dungeons were used on the main game. Pthumeru should have been a few optional areas with real bosses, rather than the dungeons which are samey, have shitty bosses and go one forever.

Agree with the chalice dungeons just being canon fodder, but the pthumerian queen fight is amazing and worth doing.

I feel like I'm the only one who enjoyed DaS2 more than DaS3

dark souls pvp is kinda shitty
I like the co-op tho
If it wasn't for that random guy with firestorm that I summoned, the four kings would've been a lot harder

don't care what any of you say, i think das3 is the best

DaS3 should be on the same tier as SotFS

Ceaseless Discharge
Centipede Demon
Stray Demon
Four Kings
Bed Of Chaos
Pinwheel

Do not provide unique weapons either through souls dropped then traded or tails cut.

I think a lot of the hate for Dark 3 is just from series fatigue and Zelda cycles, but it does have quite a few problems.

I liked using Chalice dungeons as buffers for hard bosses or areas. I stopped playing BB, then got back in and almost immediately got to Logarius. I sucked ass repeatedly, so I did a couple layers to git gud again. Eventually won solo so I was happy.

das3's problems stem from the retarded balance both in Pve and pvp. The first half of the game is boring to replay through as well since it feels so similar until carthus. Even farron with the swamp and 3 fires feels like I'm playing through path of sacrifice

BB > DaS > Nioh demo > DaS 3 > DeS > DaS 2 > Salt and Sanctuary > Not playing videogames > Lords of the Fallen

I just found out recently you can spot the sword spam ball.

Looks good to me

>worst game in the franchise
>yea it had some improvements to combat but it ruined literally everything else
>just to name a few
>bad level design
>enemies either stupid easy or cheesy af, sometimes just throwing way too many of them at you at once for artificial difficulty
>characters are boring and bland like the blacksmith and his daughter, "hey that guy looks a lot like my father and my father was a blacksmith too" meanwhile the blacksmith "that person is familiar" or something along those lines, they stand literally 20 feet from one another and dont interact all game no matter what you do
bloodborne is the real dark souls 2 we were waiting for

>BB
>Anywhere higher than the middle
fanboys pls go and take your three builds with you.

nobody played blunderborne

I'll give you one(1) you for that bait. but you gotta improve

Vanilla Bloodbourne was terrible, worse than DAS2. Fuck off console trash.

BB has plenty of is own problems too though and shits all over the diversity and replay value DaS had. You get the best weapon right away, armor does jack, builds are extremely limited, no equip load or movement variation, etc.

2 million sales pre-DLC is pretty respectable.

Plus Sony agreed, since they subsequently signed From for two more PS4 collaborations with Japan Studio after Yoshida was elated over how well it did.

>blacksmith literally says it is his daughter
>she says that the blacksmith who looks just like her dad looks at her sometimes.

these kinds of replies are always neo Sup Forums

the games are just rehashes at this point. it's probably very cheap to make so even with the low amount of sales they can still make a profit. still, the FACT doesn't change that nobody played blunderborne and it will be completely forgotten soon enough. it's already mostly forgotten

Move Vanilla BB one tier down and the list is perfect and also ignore every single butthurt DS2 fan they are autistic pvp mongs.

its not perfect I'll admit but >no equip load or movement variation
implying theres any reason to go over 70% in DS2 or DS3 when all it does is gimp your roll and you cant poise through estoc spam, only game in the series that really had movement variation is DS1 because there was incentive to be fast, medium and fat roll, granted that fat roll was still the worst but if everyone is the same speed then theres no reason to really complain
also >You get the best weapon right away
theres plenty of weapon variety in bloodborne, its all up to taste but this game does tend to favor skill weapons and quality weapons over strength weapons, except maybe the cannon

Bloodborne>= DaS > DeS> DaS2>>>> DaS3

you can hardly consider them characters, they're dialogue changes once they're both there but besides that they're more like standing textboxes
same with every other character in majula
in DS1 the characters that you recruit into firelink shrine leave and come back for this or that making it feel like they have their own goals and that you're not just some hero who is the "center of the universe" to them

How can they do rides if they can't do ladders?

It perfectly describes how Sup Forums would rank the series, and I pretty much agree with it, but I know plenty of people that think DaS2 was just as good as 1 and that Demon Souls is just as good as Bloodborne

Sorry I wasn't clear, I was agreeing with you, just clarifying their new responses better. I was incredibly annoyed that there was nothing more than "huh, look at that guy"

DS2 fans will defend this

Nope. Consolefags sure do ruin a lot of shit don't they?

Going back to DS1 doesn't feel as good after playing 3, Ds1 only has atmosphere going for it.

Hating DS2 at this point is literally a meme after the "B-Team" threw in a ton of good ideas that all went right out the door for 3.

it's still the same on the PC