I beat 999 a few weeks ago and the game was great. I then tried Zero Escape Virtue's Last Reward and got bored extremely quickly (the story wasn't as interesting, and the models are soulless). I came to the conclusion I would never beat the game, so I looked up spoilers.
What the fuck is up with this game, why is the story so garbage? This is exactly the case of giving a sequel to a game that shouldn't have gotten one. Why does it get so much praise?
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Ok
It gets praise mostly by those that played VLR first, people that played 999 (like they have rightly done) can see throught all the faults of VLR
I blame half of ZTD's faults on VLR as well
This.
999 > VLR > ZTD
Was ZTD that awful? What was wrong about this one?
VLR is far superior to 999, don't know what you're smoking.
999 was a tedious slog with overwrought narration. VLR injected humour into a snappier, wilder plot with more memorable characters (Phi and Sigma >>>>>>>>>>>>> Junpei and Akane)
Phi and Sigma are indeed superior as a pair, but Akane never really was that helpful for Junpei like Phi was for Sigma
As for the memorable characters, i'd have to disagree, the cast of 999 is far superior to the one in VLR as (a whole)
Phi and Sigma alone can't compensate everything
Why did the earth turn red? Just a refference to DanganRonpa?
Also if time was already going fast why did it speed up even more for sigma? And was everyone just talking really slowly?
I played them in order, and liked VLR better, though the two are still both fantastic games. I think VLR is like a perfect 10/10, and 999 was maybe an 8.5 or 9, solely because it was kind of annoying without a guide or anything to know the right door orders.
Yeah, the VLR models seemed pretty not detailed at first, but I don't know, you get used to them. Ended up loving them. If you think those are bad, then you'd hate to see ZTD's. They're godawful, with awful lipsinc and animations. They feel so cheap.
I wouldn't call ZTD awful, bascially
999 was a great stand-alone game, with fantastic atmosphere that had a story it wanted to tell and told it. The puzzle rooms were pretty weak though and getting the true ending can be pretty esoteric.
VLR can drag quite a bit at times but has the best puzzles and it comes together really well at the end despite having a really huge cliffhanger ending.
ZTD, while certainly being quite entertaining, has a pretty fucking disappointing ending for the trilogy, leaving several plot threads open and ignoring a few that were introduced at the end of VLR. It also pussies out of a true final ending and throws in a weak cliffhanger at the end. The puzzles are alright.
Pretty much . 999 had closure and didn't need to be expanded.
It's basically doing the same story gimmick for three games except it gets worse. Art direction and stories weaken.
>Why did the earth turn red?
They literally explained that. When the reactors went off, shit with the atmosphere happened, red light rays are able to show through further, etc etc. I forget the exact scientific explanation.
>Also if time was already going fast why did it speed up even more for sigma?
Same way it affected Alice and Quark at points. Its effect happened sooner for them or something. Everyone has different tolerances, basically.
>And was everyone just talking really slowly?
I guess. But since they were all affected, they all heard it at the same speed. I dunno, might be a suspension of disbelief thing, but there are better things for you to question.
I can't think of a single enormous flaw that 999 has except for the "must replay everything every time you start" part
I like that actually, because the dialog was good and many non-story effect choices were entertaining, ever room had a mystery they talked about when they finished it.
Really VLR is worse than 999 then I might as well not bother with the series if that shitfest 999 is the fucking pinnacle
>Another Time isn't even cannon
What the fuck, I'm glad I pirated this shit.
I'm really surprised that people like 999 more than VLR. I felt that, while still a bit flawed, VLR was superior in every way.
That being said, VLR did take a while to grow on me, and I complained a lot during my first run through about the differences, but after replaying the games, VLR is most definitely my favorite.
Spike Chunsoft sure love to destroy their own world in ridiculous way.
I just meant that you can't even skip the puzzle part even if you have already done it
If you don't quite get the order of the rooms it can be frustrating when you really want to progress the story withouth pausing for a room you've already done
All three games are fun and have some genuine surprises, with great moments and characters.
It's worth playing VLR if you enjoyed 999, and worth playing ZTD if you enjoyed VLR, basically.
Exact same here. Also, looking back, VLR had a bit of a slow start. But once you start getting to the mysteries, and then jumping to the locked parts in each route, shit snowballs and never stops. 999 started immediately, on the other hand, with mysteries in each room. Still, I feel like VLR left a huger impact on me, and once everything came together, it was fucking amazing, especially with all that foreshadowing.
>ZTD threads are over
feels bad
ZTD's surprises were pretty shit. They were seriously twists for the sake of twists. They didn't matter much at all. ZTD was really only good for the memes in the ZTD threads.
I still maintain that the dialogue when you the true ending becomes unbelievably annoying.
>junpei has shown that he can solve all kinds of problems and puzzles throughout the game
>now he's flanked by people literally saying GOSH JUNPEI U R DUM LOL every fucking second
you know how there are sitcoms that have characters whose sole purpose is to just loudly comment on everything in a lame attempt to be funny? the final part of 999 is nothing BUT that
it's like how in phoenix wright that he's always accused of being a failure defense lawyer who is full of shit despite ALWAYS being right - you'd think people would shut the fuck up an recognize after a while
it also didn't help that the safe ending seemed better than the true ending
Lurk a LOT more.
I would honestly recommend you playing through VLR fully rather than just looking at spoilers. The big difference between the two games is that while 999 just had you run into dead ends, until you found the one which let you unlock the true end, VLR has you following branching stories up until you run into a roadblock... and then are forced to run into a different story path to find the key you need to overcome the roadblock. As such, you hardly ever need to visit any bad ends (although in at least one case it is necessary) and every story path - even the ones which end up poorly - have a validity and reason for being there, outside just a YOU FUCKED UP route.
The plot is fairly stupid and confusing (I can clarify if you want) but it's mostly taking 999's nonsensical plot reasoning and applying it in a larger scale, so I didn't find it that much stranger. Plus, the third game is directly based on the plot of VLR, so don't expect the followup to ignore this game.
lurk less faggot then you might get a girlfriend
Wait, what?
Yeah, people kept asking Uchi on Twitter what happened to Kyle and being "so crucial to the mission" and all that. Uchi basically said Another Time isn't canon and was only added to give VLR a happy ending. What a hack.
twitter.com
>First of all, it seems necessary to clear up the misunderstanding about Kyle and "?".
>When young Sigma saw the explosion through the window. That's the ending as canon of VLR.
>Therefore that is not canon. Main story of VLR ends in the hiding place of Crash Keys on April 13 in 2029.
>For these reasons, many players misunderstood as if "Another Time End" is canon. I really regret that.
>Therefore I'd like you to interpret Old Akane's words in "Another Time End" as metafiction.
Least we won't have to go on his wild ride anymore
In hindsight, it's not surprising since I was so excited about seeing All-Ice in VLR after the final 999 ending only to have it be another person who just happened to be named Alice and look just like what we'd expect. Even Junpei was fooled.
I think he creates good cliffhangers that are impossible to follow up on. Or just has a hard time creating a suitable extension.
999 has two useless characters, in Seven and Lotus. These guys never do anything plot-wise, nor do anything worthwhile. They're forgettable characters.
999 also has this big thing of "we rounded you up for something" and leaves these two guys there because reasons. Even Clover and Snake, who in some way drive the plot, have literally no reason to be there, so out of 9 characters 4 don't have a relevant reason to be there.
I liked 999 but it's ending was crap and it didn't tie any of its themes very well, although I'd give that it has a much nicer atmosphere and I usually prefer sprites to 3D animation.
999 has a tight narrative, but it doesn't hold a candle against VLR's. EVERYTHING in VLR is in some way connected to an overaching plot, and even the character's backstories are in some way and actually ties up its themes. Character interactions are meaningful and everything is fleshed out and the story has a lot of polish.
I absolutely HATE time traval, but I appreciate how VLR tried to make it plausible.
The only things I don't like about VLR is its lenght (40 hours? Really?) and that puzzle rooms are entirely unconnected to the actual story, and also a couple of puzzles have bizarre solutions, but aside from that I found it a very solid, 7.5/10 game.
I would have liked 999 a LOT more if it didn't cop out totally with the Sub ending and with the ending copping out of all the pseudoscience/scientific things. Turns out I did everything for a little bitch that didn't care to put 8 people in a deadly situation. Endings have literally no relation to the choices to make even though the game makes you think so, and it's never explained (AFAIK) why Ace killed everyone in the knife ending.
I haven't played ZTD. I finished VLR just last week.
This seems like a good thread to ask
I just finished 999, What the fuck was that ending? who was June then? Is she Zero?
So like did June survive the first nonary game, with Junpei's help, start the game again in 9 years so she could get Junpei to play which would help June out? Did Seven lie? is this all explained in VLR?
Yeah, but even if nothing came of it, they still mention All-ice in VLR, since you, the reader are expected to know about it. You're supposed to suspect Alice of being her, so it's not like it was an entirely dropped plotpoint. The Kyle thing is bullshit, because everyone was looking forward to that. He could have at least told us it was non-canon like four years ago, instead of saying "this will be answered in the third installment" in VLR's Q&A, like a lot of his answers to other shit, too.
The "WE WERE IN THE SAME ROOM ALL ALONG" twist is literally pointless besides explaining why Mira was able to kill everyone, which was fucking pointless already on top of that.
For all I care the explanation is TIME TRAVEL SHENANIGANS. I fucking hate time travel.
The real explanation is much more convoluted and as I said, I hate the TT trope, however I respect Zero Escape for trying to make it plausible.
>Did Seven lie?
He either lied or he had memories from another timeline. I don't think it's ever explained.
>Another Time is not canon
>in a game where multiple timelines exists
Goddammit. I blame that Danganronpa faggot for infecting Uchi with shitty ideas.
MORPHOGENIC FIELD.
>the third game is directly based on the plot of VLR
I wish, pretty much anything of interest from VLR was retconned
See
Exactly. That and Delta being there the whole time were fucking pointless. LITERALLY twists for the sake of twists.
Kodaka dosen'tplay with timelines... yet
Probably because Uchi dropped the original script and went with the fucking trash we got instead for unknown reasons.
I will never not be mad about this.
>dropped the original script
>decided to copy fucking telltale games for the presentation, except with animators so shitty they can't even make a leather jacket work
We are in the timeline God has forgotten.
That and "THIS WAS MADE THANKS TO ALL THE FANS" turning into a game that's made for new people not into the series.
I really liked Ever17.
The ball was dropped with Remember11 but that was on the publisher rather than on him
He was more than redeemed with 999 and VLR was even better.
Then ZTD came out and I'm not sure he can ever recover from it.
Really all ZTD needed to be good was to copy Ever17 AGAIN, he's done it three times already, how hard would it be to do again.
No user, we are in the timeline Uchi has forgotten.
It truly is awful.
And new people who played ZTD and ONLY ZTD believe the game is perfect while shitposting anyone who brings up reasons otherwise.
I think about it and the only thing it comes to me is just "Kek".
We were just played with.
>And new people who played ZTD and ONLY ZTD believe the game is perfect while shitposting anyone who brings up reasons otherwise.
This makes me so fucking mad. Even on its own, ZTD has so many problems, its twists add nothing important, and Delta's plans are shit and "complex :^)".
But remember: If you have a problem with the flawed ending of a series you have been following for SEVEN FUCKING YEARS, you are emotionally unstable! :-)
Please, is there a link for ZTD memes? I was busy with life during the game's release, and I stayed off of Sup Forums until I beat the game. Please spare some memes
It's just a video game :)
There's a Mediafire link with all the memes. Someone post it.
>Blaming other people for Uchi's incompetence
This is the dumbass who threw out his planned script because he was bored of it
This is the dumbass who pandered to newcomers IN THE THIRD INSTALLMENT OF A STORY FOCUSED FRANCHISE
Lurk more.
Literally do a thread and watch the shitposting ensue.
...
You know, I just realized another bit of Q foreshadowing from that ending.
>Team C is killed. (3 X-Passes)
>Eric is killed. (4)
>Sean is 'killed'. (4)
>Sigma is killed. (5)
>Phi is killed. (6)
But again, that is just a twist for the sake of a twist.
...
What new people? A lot of the people I know who did start with ZTD first disliked it.
Not to say that what you described doesn't occur sometimes...I just haven't seen it happening frequently.
Oh, shit, the one time my meme bank is needed and I'm late to post it. Well, here it is anyways:
There are a lot of people ITTs who admit to only playing ZTD, and we get a lot of questions asking if 999/VLR is mandatory (which is a stupid fucking question) or requests to explain 999/VLR.
I'm sure someone has that OP screencap of someone asking for the latter because reading the fucking wiki was too much effort.
...
Hmm, wasn't that before ZTD was even released though? At what does anyone asking about VLR and 999, or wanting to skip them, have to do with thinking ZTD is perfect?
Yes, it's obnoxious newfaggotry, but it's the norm when it comes to new entries in a series.
By before ZTD was released I was just referring to that screencap. I just said that because the initial issue was "newfags that think the game is perfect", when anything happening beforehand is irrelevant to that.
That specific example was, yes, but it has still occurred since then. In the few weeks before release and during the leak/release, we were getting tons of people asking what the series was about, and subsequently, what the first two games were about so they could skip them.
kek. Thanks anons
I get that--I know it's happening. I'm just confused as to where all the new players that thought the game was perfect are because that seems to be a huge issue to you.
You seem to think they've been shitposting while the connection doesn't really seem to be there.
Not sure about that user but it seems like it's mostly ZE fans shitpost about ZTD being perfect...it's difficult to tell how many mean it and how many are just being ironic/satirical. Haven't seen many new players who loved the game around.
>Really all ZTD needed to be good was to copy Ever17 AGAIN
Please no. What we got wasn't great, but I prefer it to rehashing that one idea yet again. At least he tried to do something new. Also it was never going to be that, and I don't know why people think it was
But remember, if you liked the ending despite the flaws you literally eat shit and never truly liked the series, and are an awful person with awful taste whose opinions are invalid. :)
The third part of a trilogy isn't the time to get experimental and try something new, and it definitely isn't the time to start retconning or introducing major plot elements. It's the time to deliver exactly what people were expecting and wrap up the loose ends.
If ZTD wasn't a Zero Escape game I wouldn't hate it, it still wouldn't be good but it wouldn't be terrible. If he decided to make some new series called Complex Fax Machines and do all this stuff there then I wouldn't mind. What I mind is that he fucked up something that should have been good just for the sake of it.
They are becoming less because most things worth mentioning in ZTD have been discussed. They still kind of pop up from time to time.
Honestly, I liked 999, but VLR was just a better game
For starters, you didn't have to spend half of the hours you played it holding down the left arrow button
>:)
Sorry, but I can't help grimacing at how passive aggressive you guys are being. Comon, using a smile face? The last time I've seen it used in such a way it was by a stressed out middle aged teacher that was having issues with students texting in class, who posted a "Gentle Reminder" full of "smiles"...yeah, I know that's a weird analogy...
And I guess I have to clarify that I too hated ZTD.
Akane did everything just to fulfill an inevitable closed time loop and save herself as a kid, while also getting revenge on the people responsible for the first Nonary Game.
It's arguably implied in 999 and the sequel that she's a huge machiavellian sociopath and faked a cute personality to manipulate Junpei, but I never bought into that. ZTD confirms that while she's ruthless and a pragmatist, she's not quite the mastermind she thinks she is and is genuinely nice.
999 story was mediocre. I really didn't give a shit about Akane or the entire cast for that matter.
Ace was just a "hurr I'm evil" villain. Dio was x100 times better.
Axe and knife endings suck. Sub ending is good to create suspense. Safe ending is dumb edgy shit.
999 escape rooms were also toddler-tier
Not to mention the sprites are fucking hideous. Good thing it has pretty backgrounds to make up for it.
Honestly don't know why so many people suck this game's dick. It's not even that good and VLR was overall a tighter experience.
Must be the babby's first VN syndrome.
>Must be the babby's first VN syndrome.
Do people say that for every VN?
>So like did June survive the first nonary game, with Junpei's help, start the game again in 9 years so she could get Junpei to play which would help June out?
I interpreted it as June projecting herself into the future so that she could remake the Nonary game with Junpei in it and the final puzzle was designed to further link herself into Junpei so that she could solve it.
Which explains why June is missing in the end of 999.
Yours is also valid.
>Did Seven lie?
probably not. He didn't have any reason to.
>is this all explained in VLR?
Nope. All you get is more questions that are even dumber and don't get resolved until ZTD.
[
ZTD Akane is literally the worst character in the franchise. Not even Alice is that bad.
Conversely, Carlos is one of my favorite characters in the series. I totally expected him to go rogue at some point but he stayed a bro the whole time.
It was more VLR that created the sociopath personality. That was her plan start to finish, all Klim did was help make it possible.
She is that much of a mastermind and ZTD rewrote her the same way it rewrote every recurring character besides Phi who spent too much time being dead to have a character.
Ouch.
>Which explains why June is missing in the end of 999.
June's gone because her and Santa escaped while the others are distracted.
>probably not. He didn't have any reason to.
I don't remember if it's officially confirmed or not, but the common theory is that he WAS in fact lying for the sake of all this shit going right.
I still to this day don't get Alice's outfit. I'm all for sexy anime outfits, but she's literally wearing that necklace thing as the only thing covering her tits. It's like it's glued on perfectly.
Akane in VLR was a mistake though, ZTD just repaired her back to her 999 self.
But wasn't the mastermind Akane of VLR more or less an extension of her implicit 999 self (the one that she had to be in order to even plan the Nonary Game and be Zero)?
ZTD definitely has it's problems in it's story because of complex fax machines. However, to be fair, 999 and VLR aren't exactly scot free either.
With 999, you kind of just have to assume that Snake and Seven are lying or working with Akane in some way. Otherwise some of the shit they say doesn't make sense. There are, of course, more minor things as well. For example, how did Akane escape the incinerator in the future? She was there, then she wasn't even though she had the heats. In the bad endings, rounds of characters are killed off by a single person. For example, how could Clover take on 3 people with only an axe? Same with Ace and his knife. He killed 4 people(2 and 2) right next to each other with apparently little struggle. Then there is a discrepancy of how Clover acquires the special note about "truth be gone" in the timeline when cap doesn't appear or is mentioned at all (knife ending).
Most of what I stated above is generally overlooked because it actually is very easy to (excluding the Snake and Seven thing).
The obvious holes in VLR are that Sigma is an old man with a weird bionic eye he never ends up touching. Why wouldn't Sigma recognize that his voice has changed? Radical 6 is a bit of a plot hole as well. Apparently the cast is already under the effects of rad 6 since they seem to think they are on earth using drop tests. But when people speak, 99% of the time voices sound normal. Probably other holes as well but I haven't thought about VLR as much as 999.
In a way, it is a bit of picking and choosing which plot holes you acknowledge, try to fix, or just accept.
999 was a great game altogether, I feel VLR pushed the series in the wrong direction but it wasn't too bad. ZTD just felt forced onto you in the end just to end the series. I would recommend 999 to anyone, but I would hide the sequels to prevent the utter bullshit that the other games produced.
I don't really remember much of 999 so I'll try to take on your points on VLR.
>why didn't he notice his bionic eye
He just didn't. It's kind of a suspension of disbelief thing, but he just didn't. That's like asking "how come none of them ever went to the bathroom?" They just didn't, they're in a death game, they have bigger shit to worry about. It just doesn't even cross their mind. This didn't go through my mind when I first finished it, it wasn't until after I read opinions online that people questioned this. To each their own, but I don't think this one is a problem or big deal at all.
>why didn't he notice his voice changed
This was touched upon in the Q&A. Also another suspension of disbelief thing. Your voice sounds different to you than it does to others. That explains why he didn't recognize his voice in the holograms. Hearing it vs. speaking it. Other than that, same answer as above, basically. They were always busy with shit, he probably didn't even stop to notice it. If I was Sigma, and I woke up and noticed my voice was a little different, I'd guess maybe it was from sleeping so long or some shit. I'd immediately forget that and move onto the next issue at hand: escape.
>normal voices
Unlike the past two where I said suspension of disbelief, I still attempted to explain reasoning. I'll just leave this one at suspension of disbelief, I don't know.
Overall, I think VLR is pretty damn good in terms of lack of plot holes and whatnot.
Which is true. Uchi gave a figurative middle finger to the fans who have been following the series, and awaiting a decent conclusion, for over half a decade.
There is a clear correlation between people who only played ZTD and think it is amazing.
See, this is why we can't have a rational discussion in there threads. Some of the fans got exactly what they wanted with this game. And some enjoyed it even if it wasn't what they were expecting. Others still appreciated even though they recognize it is flawed. There is a spectrum of opinions, and yours isn't the only right one. Your sense of entitlement is worse than Sup Forums, I swear to God
>spectrum of opinions
>only lists positive and encouraging opinions that align with his
>ends with a generic obligatory assumption
Serious question: Do you shitposters have a checklist that you run through for each and every post? Or is it simple petulant mentality which dictates a mandatory assumption/generalization/insult within every post? It is absolutely grating to see this in each and every single thread on this fucking board at all times.
Polite sage for responding.
>Your voice sounds different to you than it does to others.
If you grab a couple of binders or folders and put them on each side of your head, before your ears, and speak, you will listen how your voice sounds like to others.
I didn't include opinions like yours, because you obviously know they exist. And the fact that you feel Uchi 'owed' you a decent ending that aligned with what you wanted out of the series is entitlement plain and simple It just is. I don't care if you didn't like the game. That's fine. Plenty didn't. But the need to attempt to invalidate the opinions of those who don't agree with you is baffling. It also reminds me of the people on Sup Forums who feel the same way anytime a writer publishes an issue with something they don't like, hence the comparison. I'm not saying you can't hate it. Hell, I didn't love it. But saying anybody that did can't be a true fan and liked shit is just petty and stupid, and prevents these threads from having any reasoned discussion.
What? Are you kidding or something? The occasional random idiot asking if it's fine to start with ZTD isn't proof of the shitposters being newfags because there's always some individuals that prefer updated later entries in series over earlier ones, along with other absurd reasons (i.e., some people just prefer cinematics over VN but not all newfags are like this). I've seen a similar amount asking about whether or not the series is worth it and where they should start. Oh, and also a good number of people who never played the series claiming that ZTD looks like shit. Are you just gonna ignore all of them?