Subpar games with great multiplayer

Subpar games with great multiplayer

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I really wanted to love the K&L games. They had a nice vibe going on, but the actual shooting, which was nonstop, was tiresome because it felt like shit 99% of the time.

Man that's a good way to describe K&L2, the single player is okay but the multiplayer is unique and so chaotic.

I would say Dark Souls 2 and 3, for the same reason.

Not great but solid

Subpar world be an understatement. I literally finished K&L2 in 2 hours according to Steam. And it was boring as fuck.

I kind of appreciated what they did with the gun play. They sort of made the aiming shake and not always be accurate. The voice acting was top notch and I enjoyed a majority of 1 until they turned it into a war game and enjoyed all of two but thought it had the most aburupt ending ever.

>games where you can betray your allies


Why are they so rare? if done well It can be tense as shit.

Hope Payday 3 introduce a system like this for people that want to play that way.


Oh wait no they'll introduce more boring as shit stealth

Fragile alliance was really a tense feeling and I can't think of any games that do it.

> that feeling of killing one person and then reasoning with the rest of the players not to kill you. Them killing them the rest before the drop off.

Uncharted 3 and 4

I'm a huge fan of the K&L games, I can understand why people find the SP subpar but for me they're two of the best modern TPSes.

4/10 gameplay with
11/10 visuals

OP fits
so does this

I can understand saying they're the best in atmosphere or (in the case of 2) visual style, but mechanically I literally cannot think of a single big TPS that feels worse to play than the K&L series.

I think they feel great. Too many TPSes are clinical pinpoint binary bullshit; I love how the K&L games are messy as fuck, I actually found the gunfights tense and hectic thanks to the fact that the cover isn't completely impenetrable and the guns aren't pinpoint accurate.

Again, I get other people not liking that, but for me, they were awesome.

I think that was the point of the gunplay. The problem is IO never came out and said that was the intended outcome so everyone thought it was just shit programming. Both games are like this so I believe it to be a design choice.

guns not being pinpoint-accurate is not even on my list of concerns for the game, that's something I'm more than willing to deal with, especially if it lends itself to the game's style.

the characters controlled clumsily themselves, and moved weightlessly while under your control

areas were broken up awkwardly and the checkpoints system frequently saved right before lengthy, unskippable cinematics

the gunfights were hectic and messy—for you. As is the case in nearly every game that tries to do "realistic" gunfights (FarCry 2 being another big-name culprit) all that shit goes straight out the window when it comes to the AI.

Over-all it's right there alongside MP3 for me: a stylish TPS with a setting and story that carried me through the whole thing right to the end in spite of how fucking tedius it felt to play. I'd say K&L2 was better realised visually than MP3 even, which is impressive considering the sizes of the studios.

the guns are actually pinpoint binary accurate, the game just didn't have auto aim on consoles.

if you played on PC it was much more obvious. The randomness was not a stylistic choice. It is a direct result of IOI not knowing how or caring about making aim compensation for controllers.

Like I said, I get why a lot of people don't like the games. But I don't think it's accurate to claim the checkpoints frequently saved right before lengthy unskippable cinematics. I've not noticed that before and I've played through both many times.

I played through both many times on PC. The guns use a 'cone of fire.' The centre of the cone is the centre of the reticle, but bullets will not always land in the centre of the cone. IO used the same in the Hitman games. If you played any of them on PC it's completely obvious.

playing through many times is exactly the kind of thing that would preclude you from noticing where checkpoints are as you get better at it.

But seriously, every single cinematic has a save before it. Pretty much literally.

Highway shootout.
Armored car.
Chinese restaurant.

it is prevalent and it is an issue.
I've played them a bunch too: like I said, the games are great at a lot of things and I love them for it. But I think the things that they excel at still leave them a far cry from being able to be called the best example of modern TPS's

I respect your opinion but I disagree with you on so many levels. Just out of curiosity if you're still around what third person shooters do you enjoy? Not here to shit on you just want a basis.

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You might have a point about noticing checkpoints less as you improve over multiple playthroughs. Next time I replay them I'll try dying lots just to check that.

I'm trying to think of other TPSes from the last ~10 years that I actually enjoyed and the only one that comes up is Binary Domain. Any suggestions?

Vanquish?

I give them credit for having guns loud as shit and completely reprehensible main characters. I really love how they look and feel, that trailer of them bloody, screaming and with colossal explosions as gunshots was great.

Yes! Having the gunshots clip the audio was a genius little bit of audio design

I know the found footage shit didn't really make sense, but the style made it a lot more interesting to play than the first one and lended it a lot of grit and personality.vvv

Putting my pretentious hat on for a moment, isn't it very easy to argue that using the handheld camera gimmick was a clear and simple way of illustrating 'violence as voyeuristic entertainment'?

I honestly don't think there's a TPS out there I don't enjoy, but it's also a genre I'm pretty hazy on the definition of—I have a hard time delineating where TPS ends and action-platforming begins, since they so often include shooting to varying extents.

After gen6 I went PC only so that's limited me a fair bit. Ones I remember loving the hell out of are

>max payne 1-3
>tomb raider 2, legends, anniversary, ™ and Rise Of
do the tomb raiders count? that's one of the ones I'm hazy on
>alpha protocol
>deadspace 1, 2
>spec ops: the line
>splinter cell, every single one
again, not sure if that is shooty enough of a TPS
>The Bureau: XCOM Declassified
unusual, maybe not exceptional, but neat
>RE:4
the only one I've played aside from 0 (I loved 0 but I think that ones definitely out of the realm of TPS)
>Warhammer 40k: Space Marine
actually not that great but fun enough to play through at least once
>Lost Planet 2, 3

Binary Domain's been in my backlog for ages.

The only games in recent memory I can remember trying and not liking were the mass effect games (just felt too weightless to me) and Dead Space 3 (I couldn't get into it, I was in the mood for more of Dead Space's atmospheric horror and 3 took too long to get to it)

That's a nice list, thanks for the recommendations.

I have played them all, most of them I either dislike or wouldn't consider TPS but I still appreciate you taking the time to offer a whole bunch of suggestions.

Even if you divorce it from a thematic explanation like that, it always just seemed to me like they used the handheld style for the same reasons as any found footage film. When you present something the way real footage is presented, without the conventions of a fictional presentation, it can jump past some of the audience's inherent unconscious emotional distance even if they understand consciously that it's fiction. More than a statement aimed at the audience I'd say it was more an extension of their aim with Kane and Lynch as characters, the total demystification and demythologizing of the career criminal. Instead of being looking cool in slick clean camera angles like the Michael Mann films they drew so much inspiration from, they're running and slipping around in chaotic grimy liveleak-esque camcorder footage.

the audio and visual in K&L2 is honestly, in my opinion, the best and most well realized of pretty much any game I can think of off the top of my head. Every detail clicked into place perfectly

The graininess, the colour palette, the pixelation when you got a headshot, the blown-out whites, the sound as you mentioned. I wish IOI had found somewhere else to use this gimmick because it was seriously impressive.

Eeh, I have a hard time thinking that ioi thought that far into it, especially considering what kind of a game Kane and Lynch 2 is. I always figured it was just something they thought was cool and they could use to make the game look grittier and uglier (in a good way) in a game about gritty and ugly guys, plus it basically covered up the seams of a budget game. I also agree with that it lends the game a more visceral feel.

I really hope now that they've got their act together with the new Hitman they can make some sort of return, it really was a series that needed a bigger budget. Hell, remake it, I don't care, I just want to taste that world again.

I actually thought some sort of multiplayer where one guy is a camera man would be cool, just try to get the most violence and best shots on screen.

Good list, Max Payne 3 is probably the best stop n pop gameplay ever. The Bureau kinda sucks, later splinter cells are decent TPS games. The original lost planet too.

I agree but I think the two are really the same thing, I don't think you can highlight one without highlighting the other. They're two sides of the same coin, two angles of examining violence as entertainment.

Doesn't matter if they thought that far into it or not, imho. I did and that's good enough for me.

I can't deny the bureau's kind of underwhelming, but it was different enough that playing through it is still interesting

I guess that's fair, maybe I would argue it's more a result of the approach than a core facet of it but that's just semantics at that point.

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>2nd game's trailer implies lots of dead kids because Kane took shelter in a school
Fucking hell, Kane.

I remember them saying that if the Hitman game does well, we might get another Kane and Lynch game, and possibly a Freedom Fighters game, but until that happens, the story of the two assholes will continue in Hitman games. If so, do they appear in the new game?

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there was an easter egg in absolution
I have hitman 2016 but I haven't heard or seen anything related in it yet
3 more eps of possibility though

Well, at least there's a chance they might appear..

>Kane and Lynch can't risk / are too bitter to ever show any real friendship
>torture scene in 2
>Kane thinks Lynch is dead
>distraught, goes crazy at the torturer
>Lynch is alive, saves Kane from the torturer
>all Kane can manage to say is "don't ever fucking hit me again"

Those games are full of feels if you're paying attention.

There's also the part where Kane tries to console Lynch twice after the torture, but hesitates and tries to hide the attempts.

>The dead don't care
>Trust me, I know

Fucking love these games.

youtube.com/watch?v=Mh9CNbvSSAE