Where did it all go so wrong, MMO genre?

where did it all go so wrong, MMO genre?

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Generation who was born after 1991
They have different values compared to the normal people. Same reason why they like mass effect 2

Is ToS dying?

>Same reason why they like mass effect 2

To like Mass Effect much at all you kind need to have been born in 1954, so that you were twelve when the original Star Trek aired.

Free to play and MOBAs killed it.

dead things cant die

or you can just be an overweight gamurrgirl who thinks she's super nerdy for having adventures in space when she's actually just playing a fucking soap opera in space

Nah, first ME was more Babylon 5 than Star Trek
But I mostly talked about gameplay, I never had a problem with broken fun things like combat in the bg or first me
But now on Sup Forums most of people unironically prefer gow style me2

Investors wanting quick returns from MMOs rather than a slower rate over a long period. So now MMOs are released in a rushed, unfinished state and going greed before the game dies out.

...

>old mmos
>just try to make an insteresting world and then throwing a bunch of people in there to deal with it, rely on eachother or kill eachother as they see fit
>new mmos
>themepark ride on rails to periodically siphon the one riding of money or to take them into absolute tedium


Old MMOs were GAMES, new MMOs are EXCUSES for microtransactions.

>old mmos
>just try to make an insteresting world
You never played any old mmo, right?

the keyword is 'try'

They had a lot more technical issues to deal with so they became fucked up.

You cannot say the worlds werent more interesting, theres absolutely nothing interesting to find in the world of an mmo today.

I really like tree of savior, but the grind is lethal, I just don't have the knowledge or patience to reach a level/class I care about.. Spending forever trudging through horse shit forever on end for 2 new spells an outfit is a nightmare.

Really liked it though, gif made me sad. :(

Reminder that Sup Forumstards demanding shit and then leaving 2 weeks later is what held tos back.

The mentality of gamers has ruined MMO tbqh

>Ultima Online
>people become dedicated fisherman
>people roleplay more often
>keeper of the cemetary slays you when you kill his ghouls
>protectors of towns
>people happy to be simple traders, resource gatherers etc

>Every MMO today
>min/maxing competitive faggots
>muh loot, muh dungeons, muh EFFICIENCY
>lol lets troll this guy!

Awful. The human AI turned to shit, anons.

Those rose colored glasses are fucking thick, user. Old mmos were just huge empty worlds. Asheron's Call, SWG, Everquest, UO, DAoC, you pick and I can easily argue 85% of it is empty space you ran through to get to something.

Even WoW is packed with a lot of space you ignore now that they made travel easy. Of all complaints about modern mmos, I can't get behind this.

Now if you mean writing, we can talk. I miss the subtle and slow world building rather than everything being epic and huge.

Even if both worlds are equally empty user, the way players are handled makes one world entirely worthless.

Theres no point to MMOs if theres no server level community left to manage themselves in that world.

>UO
>empty

>couldn't walk five fucking steps without stumbling over a town/dungeon/shrine/player house

Nigga, don't.

>runescape
>empty
Nope

>>couldn't walk five fucking steps without stumbling over a town/dungeon/shrine/player house
Not him, but pretty sure I could

>on Sup Forums most of people unironically prefer gow style me2

Hm. I'm glad I don't have to be part of that discussion.

yeah how dare they not want a literal shit game

Okay okay. Five was an exaggeration. But the world was pretty small and crowded in UO.

There was a lot of issues with that game, but the world being "empty" certainly wasn't one of them.

You played too late. Early years were not like that.

casuals

Earth was pretty empty in its "early years" too, user

In the early days of MMOs, people cared about the community more than their own characters. Now, it's the opposite.

Blame WoW.

Dude, I played in 1998.

Sure, there weren't THAT many player houses yet at that point, but saying it was as empty as the wide-open fields you need to plough through in contemporary MMOs is quite the stretch.

It was too small for that, and players had much more elbowroom for making a shard their own.

Runescape motherfucker, I still have yet to find a game with quests that rival it's own, MMO or not

We need a new big thing that is yet to be explored

youtube.com/watch?v=vN71W87GuvQ

>don't even recognize the abbreviation anymore

EQ Next looked promising

What happened?

Terms of Service?

MMOs were never good

Albion Online will save the MMO genre right ?

when SoE became daybreak they fired david georgeson, he was basically the driving force behind the whole project and they probably decided it was too ambitious

There were power players and griefers in UO too though.

But what kept them in check was having to play by the same world rules as everyone else.

People couldn't hear you if you weren't close, so you couldn't harrass them very well.

And sinde there was no XP, you could only steal their loot, (and kill them too, if you were in the mood,) which the game wasn't ever really about anyway.

But yeah. As you say. The attempts at making "Rople Playing Games" competitive has made me not want to play any of the stuff released for the past decade.

Albion already looks like shit

...

Dev team decided they weren't having fun with the project and dropped it.

All other MMOs marketed towards the west were failing hard. They didn't want to be part of that show.

>EQ Next looked promising
No , just no
Being F2P was enough for me to not care much about it
But putting this aside, they never tried to explain and show how "you can destroy anything in the world" and "player build content" would work

Is there even a single MMO in the market that is not a retarded WoW clone?

I just want a game like Archeage that doesn't get completely fucked by the devs. Is that too much to ask?

There is, but thse are even less talked about.

>fired david georgeson

Fuck poor guy must have been shattered. He seemed so enthusiastic about it

Explain what do you mean by wow clone?

the housing system make me sick. people are wasting grid.

They did show it and David explained it many times. Didn't they also release a part of the game where people could mine resources and design buildings?

An MMO won't survive without being F2P these days. That's just a fact and EQ Next proposed a good way of dealing with that.

EvE is a rare exception to the rule and even they went slightly toward an F2P model as of late

Game that uses tcp/ip stack for networking

Like Gorgon? I tried it but its too riddled with bugs for me

A thempark MMO obviously, Something like SWG would be cool

>An MMO won't survive without being F2P these days
ARR proved you wrong
>Everquest and anarchy online were a wow clones
Fucking generation who was born after 1990...
Speaking of which, SWG was pretty themeparkish too, compared to the MUD's and ultima

What about buy to play model? Its the only thing TESO got right

>But putting this aside, they never tried to explain and show how "you can destroy anything in the world" and "player build content" would work

they already show this working in an actual thing you can play right now called Landmark, but the real issue was building the entire EQ world inside this engine then implementing the complex AI engine ontop of that to navigate said world

he was and it is a damned crime because if his vision actually saw the light of day we might have finally been liberated from WoWshit. he seemed very genuine about the whole project which is sadly probably why they fired him - would have been too much work to take the MMO genre in a new direction

Eve comes to mind. Of course it pre dated wow, but it's one of the few older mmos with an active community.

Haven & Hearth?

i tried p1999 and honestly if not for godawfull graphics I would play it. But man at this rate I can play some text MMOs

WTF is ARR?

FFXIV: A Realm Reborn

The community pretty much. MMOs are no longer viable to sustain without a large playerbase so companies are much less willing to experiment and do things that actively hinder the player experience. Long gone is EQ, Runescape, Ragnarok Online, games that required significant time investment but still maintained a world worth exploring outside of instanced dungeon #14 and quest hub #76. When MMOs became unfeasible to sustain, companies choose the safe route of MMO building, aka the WoW route with its linear babby structure and "you were there" award system. While no MMO can replicate its success, it doesnt stop 90% of them to try and fail. Other MMOs follow the F2p route, another successful way of wringing money, but there's always the stigma of acquiring wings/mounts/etc, with a high chance of it being p2w.

Because so many MMOs follow the WoW casul route, players get even more complacent than they already are. It's a single player experience where you occasionally play with 3 other bots who do the same shitty dungeons. You can request harder content, but its almost always on the top .1% tier because if there's any sort of competency check in the other 99.9%, the community complains. If x class gets more representation than another class, people call for nerfs. Basically the general skill level of the community is abysmal. No one wants to learn, or ask questions. They just want to cap their dailies, farm their weekly items and move on to ERPing.

FF XIV world is so small though

>i tried p1999 and honestly if not for godawfull graphics I would play it
Nah, it's garbage and nothing like EQ
There literally no reason to touch it even for the nostalgia sake, and sure not for playing seriously
A Realm Reborn
Game what literally has 60lvls of attunement chain for the dungeons and raids, and is one big "FUCK YOU" to the wildstar developers(wildstar developers said that their game failed because gamers aren't ready to do long quest chains and dungeons with instant kill mechanics, and focusing on the hardcore base was a mistake)

i still play MMO's
Runescape is probably the most solid MMO in existance because it tries something different

some of my friends also play Neverwinter
i tried and it was pretty mediocre, but it was kinda enjoyable i guess

>tfw I enjoy the ffxiv storyline

fuck me right

>Like Gorgon? I tried it but its too riddled with bugs for me
That game was fucking sweet before the devs started rushing a retarded agenda so they can make it to steam launch

They intend to sell the game as buy to play for like 40 bucks too. Can't wait to see it flop

This, also people dont communicate.
At all. Last time I had good run and communicated with people was on that private XI server.

>Isometric
>Ugly art
>Weeb

Is p1999 not a classic everquest experience? Not that guy but I was under the assumption that it was, I never played EQ when it was popular.

wildstar's problem was the presentation of said chain

it's basically an easy ride that stops abruptly at a huge wall and players see that and drop the game

FFXIV is a longer slope but has a very steady pace all the way to end game, and absolutely zero convolution once you get there, and even if you decide it's not for you, there's plenty of other shit on the side to do

I dont have anything against buy to play as long as there's content to play

That's the thing, there's not. There's plenty of games with more shit to do for 20 bucks on steam that don't have an optional sub like Gorgon will

I'm making one but its low budget as fuck. But I can actually have 1.6k people on the screen with these shitty graphics.

Is it that hard to make MMO that doesnt have retarded leveled zones? I just want to travel the game world and do quests with friends

the client would have to process the actions of 1.6k people though, that's far more CPU heavy than simply rendering 1.6k crappy sprites which is more on the GPU side

No, wildstar problem was the fact that game is garbage. Switching blame on the "hardcore gamers and lack of casual friendly content" was just low
>but has a very steady pace all the way to end game
Garuda says hi

It's more like "fun" server, than actual private eq server
You still need to group with people, so this aspect is the same, but it's like saying what wow private fun servers like kronos is the same game as it was in the vanilla
WoW legion actually did it

Star Citizen is the last hope of MMOs really

Garuda normal? Not only does trial roulette and 50 roulette put experienced players into that fight on ocassion, but that fight was dead easy to begin with.

>WoW legion actually did it

elaborate

>tfw people think that servers are a big deal
>when each player requires like 1-3kbps on average

Then we're pretty fucked

>Old mmos were just huge empty worlds. Asheron's Call
stopped reading there

Camelot Unchained

A man can hope. We will lose nothing if it fails, but we will get our mmo of dreams if it succeed. Man can and will hope.

i consider RO the only good mmo. no other MMO managed to make stumbling over players and creating a party with them to everyones benefit so well, which should be the main focus of an MMO. why play a themepark mmo where all you do is play solo to grind quests, cause its the most efficient way to gain levels? absolutely retarded

No incentive to work with other people, and everything is based around easy navigation and efficiency.

Maple Story has got to be the best example of the MMO genre going bad.

>Party quests require you to work together and actually talk to each other
Nowadays you don't even need to PQ to level up fast, and PQs are modified to be easier
>World was huge, filled with useless maps and going from point A to point B could take you literal hours, spanning across different transportation methods
Big Bang modified the game to be all about grinding, you can teleport everywhere you need and there aren't any hidden secrets to find out, like the hidden streets or random mini-bosses outside of instances
>Progressing in the game meant talking to people or putting effort in it
Press button to find party, press button to teleport to nearest efficient grinding zone, press button to sell items.

jew contest isn't my idea of a dream mmo

You can do zones in any order and every mob and quest reward will scale it's level for you
Even if you are in party
Waiting for it, but he hates theme parks and CU will be theme park, just like DaoC

Oh is this another "Old MMO's used to be so good" while we pretend that all new MMO's are shit thread?

I will tell you a secret, most old MMO's were really shit and the only reason you/people enjoyed them was because it was something new and exciting, in today standards they were all shit tho.

And even if there's new MMO's that tries to really capture the old MMO feeling people don't give a shit about it, just look at Phanteon Online, it failed it kickstarter and it's the closest thing you can get to an old school MMO today but people do not really want that.

You just miss the feeling of playing those older MMO's which was a new thing for you, you don't really miss the games.

You'll level up by PvP in Camelot and it won't have normal PvE, so nope not themepark at all.

>tfw everyone is "muh efficiency"
>tfw the MMO you thought was good is just a corridor with grind and generic quests.

>You'll level up by PvP in Camelot and it won't have normal PvE, so nope not themepark at all.
Doesn't not make it a themepark

go back to school, tim

WoW Vanila was good. But MMOs today follow a linear XP grind progress that restricts the design.
Tab Targeting is also cancer.
Action target like TERA where u need to master the class is glorious design, however TERA fails into the same problematic as the rest of MMOs- linearity and regurgitation.
All MMOS need is to make EMERGENT gameplay possible. Think of Minecraft, Rust and games free of constraints of linear progression. You might find 20 diamonds in the first hour, or u may find it in 2 days. Same as fight rust. U might come across a dead body filled with epic weapons, or u can progress from 0.
EVE online is the forerunner of this emergent gameplay and is an mmo.
Devs created NPCs and mechanics that makes players THE MOST IMPORTANT In the game.
Traditional MMOS dont do this. U server ur NPC kingdom/fraction and u are just visiting a theme park.
A theme park doesnt let u influence things. Its there to be passes and exited.
A good MMO is SANDBOX.
One kid wants to tinker with his mates for years building a trading outpost that has the best prices ever and rake in big monies... other kid wants to be the best pirate... even tho they a thematicaly different kids... a situation emerges where the trader needs a protection... trader pays a pirate to protect his cargo, but news spread around... suddenly u have an unscripted development of things. It is one of a kind. Purely supported by the fact -players have freedom.
That is what MMOS lack. Wast terains that are forgotten once u hit the lvl mark and move on. World is a cardboard cutout, not a living ever changing system of economy, rule and potential.
MMOs lack freedom to become anything without lvl restrictions.

Yeah idk why they made it linear. If it was more reminiscent of RO in that they focused on several city states with varied starts for classes, have dungeons out in the middle of nowhere, have much larger rewards for partying in the overworld and just release the players into the wild and let them figure it out. It could have been so good. Linear questline is the worst possible decision ever, there's no point to explore any area you've cleared unless it drops some valuable item.

I backed their kickstarter because they said that it was NOT going to be an mmo

youtube.com/watch?v=kuE39SKpqzM

Its not that bad. Its nothing CRAHZY.

Are you retarded?

old mmos were good because they promoted community based gameplay by design, people played in groups because they wanted to, not because they felt forced to. if someone makes the best game in the world but there is zero incentive for group play it's still a shit mmo

Having no PvE is completely another direction from being a themepark. Not to mention it won't have any hubs apart from the main city.
I don't even think it will have any regular quests, you just fight the opposing realm.