The Uncertain Future of Donkey Kong

nintendoenthusiast.com/article/the-uncertain-future-of-donkey-kong/

>Donkey Kong is one of gaming’s most popular icons. There are few characters that your average person on the street could instantly recognize, but the tie-wearing ape is one of them.
After a horrible new racing game in Bongo Blast for the Wii and a New Play Control port for Jungle Beat, Metroid Prime alums Retro Studios decided to step up and take on the franchise, finally taking it back to its roots. With the stellar Donkey Kong Country Returns, DK found his greatest success yet since the SNES days, selling over six million copies and garnering massive critical and fan praise. A 3DS port soon followed, this time to very solid sales
>Into this environment stepped Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze - It bombed.
>There is little chance that is acceptable for Nintendo. Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze was a major game, with three years of development time from a fairly large team. The tech was pretty complex, the detail was exquisite. This was not a cheap game to make, even if it was a 2D platformer.

Tropical Freeze was fantastic and worth the full price.
Why aren't you saving Donkey Kong?

Other urls found in this thread:

nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/software/wiiu.html
youtube.com/watch?v=7nsuT7Dw8ks
youtube.com/watch?v=9SLOGs9ttiE
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

I bought it though.

>bombed
>literally no source
>nothing to base it on

Nice thread OP.

Barrel Blast was fun.
I would like NLG to make the next DK game (either another 2d platformer or a 3d one that fixed everything 64 did wrong).

i did, i had the chance to get it for 20 bucks but bought the eshop version for 45 instead because i'm a lazzy neet.
i still think it's an amazing game and one of the best platformers i've ever played

If it bombed for any reason, it did so because of the console it was on and nothing else because this game was fucking outstanding.

Oh

I never fucking cared about Donkey Kong.
It's one of the most shilled franchises on Sup Forums

you must be really fucking bored and tired to post weak ass baits like these. go get some sleep user

Tropical Freeze bombed? It sold at least 1.5 million units.

Donkey Kong already got more games than he deserves. DKC 1-3 are trash.

>someone doesn't like his favorite franchise
>MUST BE BAIT!

You're a Rarefag, aren't you?

I don't have a pee you

...

I bought it at full price. It honestly might be the Wii U's best Nintendo game. Easily the best 2D platformer I've played since the SNES days.

Anyway, I feel like Next Level Games is pretty likely to take it over. I feel like Retro feels satisfied with their work and probably is working on either a different IP or brand new one.

Regardless, TF was so good, I don't mind if Nintendo takes years for a follow up.

Doesn't matter
Loads of games sold poorly on GameCube because of the shit install base and were killed even though they sold well proportionately.
Nintendo is full of retards who need to be fired.

>February 10, 2016

Bought it and completed it 100%, it's a fantastic game. If only the Wii u wasn't such a blunder so that more people would have bought and played tropical freeze, and there would be a better chance for more DKC games.

Off topic, I love my Wii u, but I do hope Nintendo pulls their finger out and the NX isn't a fucking train wreck

Because nobody has a fucking Wii U, unlike the original Wii

Dong returns and dong freeze are top tier platformers though

I hate to be contrary, but I believe Retro did a terrible job with the DKC license. They failed to capture what made the snes games pop out, and I put them in the same boat as the devs of Jungle Beat. It's okay, but the snes DKC games will always be better.

I grew up with DKC, so I'm very picky. We never got a DKC4, but I gave Retro one chance to do this right and they ended up going a mediocre route with it. I'm not impressed by their wii renditions and I hope someone more passionate gets access to the franchise one day.

Not buying that piece of shit console for one or two games I like. Just emulated returns.

>Tropical Freeze was fantastic and worth the full price.
Eh, it was OK at best, so it's par for the course for DKC games.

nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/software/wiiu.html

Nintendo doesn't even include it in their list of top selling Wii U games. Mario Party 10 and Wind Waker HD outsold it.

Games sell hardware, not the other way around. If a console flops, it's because it doesn't have good games. If a first-party game flops, it's because it's not a good game.

You did try Tropical Freeze, right? It feels more like DKC to me.

Still doesn't mean it bombed.

As long as it made a profit, it did not bomb.

I did an extensive review of Tropical freeze on Sup Forums a couple of years ago cause everyone was saying it was the best ever, but like a dumbass I didn't save it.

The gist of it is is that Tropical Freeze didn't improve anything that I had problems with from the Returns. The controls were still too sticky, the aesthetics were far too generic, and I absolutely hate how cheap Retro was with the level cinematics and forcing you to go through certain sections in an attempt to fake tension. The earlier DKCs had these only one or twice in the entire game, only as a slight surprise, but these segments were basically the bread n butter of Retro's DKC, and it really rubbed me the wrong way.

As a platformer, the game wasn't slick enough. As a DK game, the game wasn't memorable enough. I can remember a lot of things from the old DKC games because Rare knew how to put character to everything in their game: the levels, the music, the enemies, even the world map. I can remember that stupid barrel enemy from DKC2 that liked to knock either your bananas or your balloons out of you. In the Retro games? Stupid tikis shooting fire in a horizontal path and a penguin throwing fish bones.

I'm stopping myself before I go any further.

To sell a game on a console, you need first to sell that console. It seems that Nintendo forgot that.

It's definitely more generic, but I found that TF did better than Returns in the areas of controls, atmosphere, and music. It's still not the same as the SNES games, of course, but the extent to which that bothers someone obviously varies.

In order to sell a console, you first need a worthwhile game to sell that console.

The console is just a box you buy to get to Mario. Nintendo forgot that with the Wii U and Gamecube.

I bought it like a week ago. I haven't played it yet but I think the problem is oversaturation. There are just too many first-party 2D platformers between 3DSand Wii U. I'll still get all of them eventually since I love platformers but the average Joe doesn't need half a dozen 2D platformers for his system, while pretty much every other genre has only one or two games, if any at all.

I agree. While I enjoyed the new DKC games, the older ones had something that I still go back to - I play DKC2 on the Wii occasionally and I think it holds up way better, and I think it's aesthetically more pleasing. I'm not sure what exactly it is.

Gamecube had plenty of great games though, the PS2 was just a more sensible buy. Wii U has games, but not really enough.

>Gamecube had plenty of great games though
It obviously didn't, since the console didn't sell. Metroid Prime and Melee were the only Gamecube games that moved hardware.

For a console to be successful, the games need to SELL. If the games don't sell, the console is a failure.

>It obvious didn't, since the console didn't sell.

Yeah, there's been absolutely no evidence of a collection of great games on a failed console. Never seen that before.

It's the controls and the more realistic color palette. The cut out 3d models helped, too. It's kinda the difference between pre-rendered backgrounds versus low poly textured polygons.

Tropical freeze uses basic shaders and basic geometry. You can see this in NSMB, except Nintendo actually used better shaders to cover up the generic design. Not to mention, NSMB's color scheme is a lot brighter than DK's. Retro's DK games suffer a problem of bad color and model design.

What, are you going to tell me the Xbox didn't have games either? It didn't sell much more than the Gamecube.

Does the Sega Saturn have no games? Sales have nothing to do with quality and everything to do with quantity and appeal.

It feels like you're overrating the old games just because you've played them as a kid.
As far as platforming goes, they were never particularly good and the Retro games are easily superior.
The you complain about the levels not being memorable when, unlike in the older games, every level in TF has an unique theme, music and textures that set them apart from every other.

Video games are a business, user. Video games themselves are products. If a product doesn't sell, it's a failure. You could put a fully-realized, uncut version of Spore on a platform and if it doesn't sell, it's a failure.

"Game quality" is irrelevant if the game doesn't sell. A good video game is a video game that sells. It's a game that people want to buy. The Gamecube did not have games people wanted to buy, ergo the Gamecube flopped. It's that simple.

Didn't it sell over a million? It probably didn't have a huge budget.

>It feels like you're overrating the old games just because you've played them as a kid.

Except I know how to disconnect nostalgia and just pure game design.

Example, physics is one of the most important things for a platformer. If you choose to have low physics, that means you want the game to be a smooth ride from start to finish. But if you choose the physics that the Wii games use, the platforming becomes sluggish. Normally when you have something like this, you need to have level design that encourages problem solving and allows you to use the physics for better feats (that's why slower physics actually are better for 3d games or games like meat boy that depend on them). In Retro's games, the physics arent important. They only slow you down and make you die a lot trying to be too realistic. It's also the difference between Mario Tennis 64 and Gamecube Mario Tennis.

The physics serve to make DK feel weighty. If you wanna go faster, rolling is plenty fast.

>They only slow you down and make you die a lot trying to be too realistic.
This alone shows you don't know what you are talking about. The games can be as fast as the player it, you clearly just aren't very good, and blame the game.

>Nintendo actually used better shaders to cover up the generic design
Uh
And how is NSMB using a brighter palette a positive, especially since you're praising Rare's games?

Good means the product is good. Good sales mean the sales are good.

I don't know why you feel the need to conflate the two. Every kind of entertainment is a product.

>taptaptaptaptaptap

Here's the difference between the snes DKC and Retro's

>snes: stop go instantly
>wii: oh shit, I need to slow down. Oh shit, I have to build up speed!

One gives definitely precise control. The other is like playing Monkey Ball.

NSMB has a better shader. The artsyle synergizes well with their design choices, which is why I said they did it better.

>Still doesn't mean it bombed.
Nigga, it got outselled by a Mario Party game with cars that most people hate. That can't be good.

Mario party is still big among causuals. Admit it, you have no proof it sold so badly it lost money

DKC2 has better music and much better art direction for backgrounds and it also plays better.

What are you talking about?
Retro's DKC is entirely momentum based, the physics reward who take advantage of the level design and knows what he's doing, and punish who slows down too much and doesn't take chances of making use of the movement options to exploit shortcuts and such.
It feels you didn't even touch Time Trials, if you did you would know the depth of the platforming in these games.

>I don't know why you feel the need to conflate the two.
Because there is no objective way to determine "game quality." Any attempt to is nothing more than subjective, and who is the arbiter of taste? It could be said that Bubsy 3D is the pinnacle of game design and video games themselves and that statement would be no less valid than someone saying Super Mario Bros. 3 is the pinnacle of game design and video games.

Sales, however, ARE objective. Sales objectively indicate consumer willingness to exchange something they value (money) for a product. Sales are the only objective way to determine the quality of a product, and video games are products that are meant to be sold. Consoles sell or don't sell because of their games. If they don't have games that people want to buy, they fail.

DKC3 had better levels

But in both games you're either walking/running/rolling before you jump. There's no momentum added to Retro's, like Mario or something.

youtube.com/watch?v=7nsuT7Dw8ks

It's plenty fast, too.

There's another thing I dislike about defenders of Retro's DKC games. Time Trials is not an excuse for bad platformer physics.

Don't look at me, I fucking bought the shit out of it. Probably my favourite DKC game. Everything about it, from the art style to the music to the level design, is great.

It didn't impress me like the older games, it felt like a huge step backwards. Honestly Donkey Kong has been dead since SNES. A lot of these old games were ruined with the death of pre-rendering. There is a magic to pre-rendered graphics that 3D graphics will never capture.

Except there's build up in Retro's games versus the one in Snes which is a logic on/off. It makes a big difference.

>buy THIS game because it might get us better games, even if you don't like this game!

I hope I never have to experience the pain of being a Nintentoddler.

Funny, that sounds like a Capcom thing.

mah nigga

oh, I remember the guy ITT complaining about tropical freeze's physics and momentum
he got btfo in the last dk thread once everyone pointed out that he just sucked at adjusting to a game and people posted fun speedruns

>not loving both Rare and Retro's DKC titles for playing differently but still being super fun and tight platformers

Do you even dong?

Oh neat. Then that means I'm not the only one who had this problem with the game

>not everyone on Sup Forums is the same person dumbass

Tropical freeze is way too hard, thats why it bombed.

In dk returns when you die enough times you get to choose to white kong, wich is invincible, to finish the level... In Tropical freeze you dont have this option.

>Retro
>tight platformer

Next you'll say their metroid games were good

Hmm yeah its a toss up i liked the whole pirate theme in DKC2 more and it had crazy shit like going on a rollercoast ride, beehive etc but 3 some crazy stuff too...
Honestly i put both of them above any of retros.
But still retros games are awesome too.

The problem is that the older games had clear and logical physics. Tropical Freeze tries too hard and feels crappy to play.

They're not bad, they work perefectly for what the game want to do.
Retro's DKC is all about flow, and it plays like a dream once you're good enough.
Just say that you wanted a game like the old ones and you didn't even bother trying to undertand what the new ones were about.

What's not clear and/or logical about the physics in TF, exactly? I never felt had a moment in the game where the way DK moved wasn't what I expected.

That's retarded. It's like saying you can't describe the difference in craftsmanship between two tables.

And how isn't it? The controls are perfect barring Returns' waggle, the levels are well put together and full of fun secrets, and you're never in a position where you can't do what you want to.

You can have flow with good logical pick up and undersand physics too look up a dkc2 speedrun lol

They were though.

I've never bought a game at full price, and this game refuses to ever go below $50. Even with the Nintendo Select thing, the stores are still only stocking the old shit and the prices are still $69 AUD.

>hey, do you love rocket barrels cause we at Retro sure love rocket barrels!

>never touched DK series
>Sup Forums recommends Returns
>hate it
>play Tropical Freeze at a friend's house
>love it

>emulate original DKC
>fall asleep
>emulate DKC2
>god tier music and atmosphere, decent platforming, love the difficulty
>emulate DKC3
>have to convince myself it's a legitimate sequel and not some fanmade thing

Freeze and 2 are the only good games in the series.

could you be a faggot puppeteer anymore with that list?

There really isn't, it's not a momentum based game. The only thing you can do to build speed is roll, which is the same as the old ones.

So whats Retro working on now?

Sorry I didn't like your shitty romhack-tier third game.

The fact you don't understand what the fuck I'm talking about is precisely why you're not ever going to get it. Fucking newfags

>It's like saying you can't describe the difference in craftsmanship between two tables.
If both tables perform the same job, the craftsmanship doesn't matter.

It's not the same as the old games, but there's nothing complicated about it.

>DKC3
>romhack tier
>has better graphics, levels, and world design than the DKC2

No, you're just a hivemind faggot following the bandwagon and who cant think for himself

>not liking rocket barrels

I bet you don't like mine carts either.

>>DKC2 god tier music and atmosphere, decent platforming, love the difficulty
yeah you get it.

A little off topic but i truly loved the 2D ones and prime feels too different
Should I continue ?

Was it hard to hold down A?

The only fun minecart level in the entire series is DKC2 roller coaster race.

There's also this super annoying pause when landing from a jump, or turning around, before you can roll again.

Which totally kills the momentum that the SNES games did have.

It's something really smal, but it has a big impact on how it plays. Which is just a bit slower en clunkier than the SNES country-games.

>better graphics, levels, and world design
With dull platforming, boss fights that manage to be more half-assed than DKC's recolors, the worst final boss in the series, and it had more gimmicks than Returns had rocket barrels.

I got it for free, but that might've just been a US Club Nintendo thing.

>captcha: Select all images with bananas.

The originale games have no flow to speak of. The physics lack any real weight and there's barely any momentum and hinertia. You're never punished for fucking up, bouncing in a wall or stopping for no reason. You can only do a long roll when the developers decide for you by putting a bunch of enemies in line and your movement isn't free enough to let you skip part of the levels if you're good enough.
It's not even close.

DKC2 > DKC3 > DKC
All three are good

youtube.com/watch?v=9SLOGs9ttiE

I'm glad that David Wise came back to compose the music. He is truly one of the best vidya composers. Up there with Yoko Shimomura.

Every platformer in existence has gimmicks so that isnt an argument.
Dull platforming doesnt work cause DKC3 built atop what 1 and 2 did.
Colors are subjective.
And the final boss (and the true final boss) require you to not be a dumbass.

>you're just a hivemind faggot
I hate how you can't criticize anything about DKC3 now, as if it flawless. It had some neat ideas like the overworld you could explore with all the vehicles, but the rest was weak.

Guess what? Games aren't meant to be realistic. They're meant to be fun.

>I hate how you can't criticize anything about DKC3 now

Since when is that true? It seems to be a bit more appreciated these days but even people who like it usually admit it's not as good as the other 2.

True not as flowing but with rolling through enemies, dixies fly ability and enemy bounce you still could basically rush and fly trough levels.
Eh i just like the old style a bit better it just feels more precise to me.

DKC 2>DKC>Tropical Freeze>DKC 3>Returns>64

literally the only good thing about dkc3 was nuts and bolts