Let's test that game design Sup Forums
You have a group of wizards in a library building or room and they are researching new things for you, once they complete all the research that exists in the game they will get bored and rebel.
What do you Sup Forums to prevent this rebellion?
Other urls found in this thread:
ddowiki.com
wiki.guildwars2.com
dungeonkeeper.wikia.com
twitter.com
>What do you Sup Forums to prevent this rebellion?
What do wizards do when they aren't rebelling or researching?
Melt them.
Summon succubi to drain their mana
>What do wizards do when they aren't rebelling or researching?
Those are the only two states wizards are capable of.
>What do you Sup Forums to prevent this rebellion?
You don't, you run away.
>You don't, you run away.
I'll try.
Send the to actively do stuff. Even going so far as to create a portal to other worlds.
Great, Now we're being invaded by extra dimensional monsters..
>Those are the only two states wizards are capable of.
Then there is literally no way to answer it except by killing the wizards as soon as they finish the research.
Why not just give them another job? I mean surely they can do other things than just research, right?
Build a casino so that they won't be bored, and make profits too
Alternatively, stick them in a grinder, using mind control if I have to
Look at the bright side. Now the wizards have something exciting to do. And the adventurers. And the people in general.
HELLO DIMENTIONAL CONQUEST!!
Hurray!
>Then there is literally no way to answer it except by killing the wizards as soon as they finish the research.
But they are wizards, so you lose by default.
everyone in this thread is a retard
new job
ddowiki.com
new job
wiki.guildwars2.com
Yeah. Kinda like that. Only that the demons are the ones being invaded after their invasion flops.
Well, That's probably the only smart suggestion so far.
You slowly utilize the technology they give you to gradually develop your society so that you're powerful enough to stop them when they reach the end of their research.
>reseah a anti-magic armor, shield and so on
>have a army "defending" the mages
>as soon they are not usefull anymore kill them of and say they rebel so no one cant argue back
What's stopping them from destroying the landscape in the meantime?
Also. Anit Magic armor wouldn't be magic?
Belt of Anti-Magic Field
The wizards are busy studying. I am their guard.
As soon as they finish, I murder them.
Wouldn't that be more insensitive not to research then?
And where did you get the belt when the only people who can make it are wizards?
More importantly, how do you even know such a thing exists? Who even told you there's an anti-wizard item out there, when the people who make it are wizards?
Also, just how stupid are these wizards to let you live if they know you are in possession of an item specifically made to counter their abilities?
>implying they're not made of anti-magic stones that are found naturally
Wizards in this fictional game only have two states: Researching, and not researching. They have all the incentive to research, as that's one of their only two states, and wizards love researching shit, plus they love having some burly dude keeping the rabble out of their tower.
In most fantasy realms, Belts of AMF don't require a wizard. They require either special materials, holy incantations, or a combination of the two.
>Also, just how stupid are these wizards to let you live if they know you are in possession of an item specifically made to counter their abilities?
It's just a plain leather belt user, don't get so paranoid, go back to scribbling in your scrolls, or whatever wizards do.
This sounds like an absurdly terrible game.
What kings think will happen:
>alright guys, let's gather all these antimagic stones so we can kill the wizards if they get out of control.
What actually happens:
>Steve the scryer just said that the king sent his dudes out to gather antimagic stones. Guess I'll just get Bob the summoner to dump a hundred fire elementals on his castle when he falls asleep, that'll teach the muggles to get uppity.
when their leader goes into a coma from fucking around with demon magic i kill all of them
>scryer
What a bitch
that's the whole entire point.
A game where a set entity only has two states, either doing fucking nothing or murdering and rioting, is a shit game.
There needs to be multiple states. they can either research, help out by fortifying town defenses/creating golems, assist in fighting/combat by helping buff armies/throw fireballs, assist in the growing of crops and other things with magic, etc etc.
Wizards are so versatile that only allowing them to do 1 of two things at any given moment is stupid, and OP should feel stupid, because at that stage there's only one solution, which is to make magic immune shit to murder them.
you build the library in a containment area, when they rebel it doesn't affect you
Several things:
>Employ automated anti-magical wariors to guard around you, meaning no magic users can get near ur compound.
>Wear magic suppressant apparel
>Take out some hardcore prisoner and do a public execution under the guise he plotted to rebel against the wellbeing of the kingdom
"THis man, tried to kill our progress! There are many like him, and they will TOO suffer his fate! IF you see acts of treason I EMPOWER YOU TO STOP IT- FOR THE JUSTICE IN THE KINGDOM *chops the head of a prisoner that is confused* -crow goes wild, mages get scared and lose rebellion morale
>Instill a super mage that is also kings best friend. He can delete mages due to his insanecular magics.
>Send them on missions of great importance for u, giving them fake but useful pride
underrated
No, that first part was an ok premise. The wizards become this timer that gives you a resource at a variable rate. You have a choice as to how fast you want them to do research, presumably by determining how much of some other resource to give them. You have to use their research well through smart decisions in order to be prepared for when they turn on you. That could be developed into a good game.
>There needs to be multiple states
It doesn't have to throw a lot of complex things into it to make it a good game. The wizards are an adversary, a sort of countdown timer to manage.
I mean, I really wish there were more games that had wizards with interesting mechanics and an academic magic system, etc., but that doesn't seem to fit in with this premise (to me anyway).
>OP baiting so he gets free vidya magic research ideas
>All he gets is shitposting
Sup Forums is truly a magical place.
This faggot probably likes shitty XCOM2.
What logic connects you having bunch of wizards doing research for you and when they finish they want to wreck ur shit up?
That doesnt work user, and is shit.
Instead, failing to fulfill the needs of wizards "better study equipment, constant book printing, new experimentation grounds..." to affect their morale would be a WAY better mechanic that can lead to a rebelion.
Something like sims in the city rebel when there is too much trash. YOu gotta be careful with this, and not be noob.
>What logic connects you having bunch of wizards doing research for you and when they finish they want to wreck ur shit up?
Ok, here's a thought: their research will inevitably trigger some extradimensional apocalypse. The dig-too-greedily scenario. That's hardly a problem. The basic mechanic is that what gives you the most important resource is a countdown timer that you're racing against.
>Instead, failing to fulfill the needs of wizards "better study equipment, constant book printing, new experimentation grounds..." to affect their morale would be a WAY better mechanic that can lead to a rebelion.
Yes, you should be able to manipulate their rate of research somehow, probably by giving them part of the secondary resources you collect. You could have their research go fast or slow depending on how much you give them, and having them rebel if they get angry and wreck some of your progress (while the clock continues to count down) is a good idea. It would give you lots of choices involving the speed of that clock.
I think that's why OP is asking for something else for them to do.
>Sup Forums is truly a magical place.
Actually we are using anit magic stones.
This is the problem. This looks and sounds exactly the retarded Avatar timer in XCOM2. Its retarded. It limits your freedom to chose how you tackle shit.
But in your case there are 2 ways about it:
On one side you will base the whole game about person microing a dumb nuisance, or you have a piece of story misison/ important part of the game, where players can relax from other things and get to know the "doomsday counter" mechanic.
However, I like the idea of "Wizards finish a research and that triggers an alien invasion that will destroy you"
Then u can min max the research by sabotaging them with agents and spies. BUT this lets you troll the player for a bit of random fun. Recearch may or may not always trigger the same thing. Maybe u get a gatling gun, maybe alien demons rape ur wiminz. Add some depth to what happens. And if u want to go with 100% fail state, at least allow for player to retaliate again invaders via whatever combat you have just upped to the point u must waste a lot to preserve the most important things.
I hope i helped
Majesty is such a fun fucking game
You know, I never thought about this before.
You've got all theses games and once you complete the task then it becomes useless.
At least in majesty units garrison themselves in their respected guilds when research is done or protect the kingdom.
This guy knows what's up.
Too bad management games like Majesty and Dungeon Keeper have fucking died. All we have now are shitty dwarf fort clones like rimworld.
It was, too bad Majesty 2 took all the random generation and quest building out of it.
Majesty 2 was a mistake.
>Majesty 2 was a mistake.
What was Majesty 2? It seem nothing like the original game.
>What was Majesty 2?
A mistake.
I just told you.
Pay attention.
>Majesty 2 was a mistake.
Understatement.
Instead of doing something like Microprose planned with Majesty: Legends, they dumbed down the game mechanics and added simple RTS elements.
And don't get me started on the bad humor...
>This looks and sounds exactly the retarded Avatar timer in XCOM2.
Never played XCOM2, but the idea here is not just to have an arbitrary timer, but to have a timer that is also giving you your primary resource. Maybe it's even a timer in which the amount of time remaining is not completely known to the player.
>Its retarded. It limits your freedom to chose how you tackle shit.
I don't think absolute freedom makes a game good necessarily - for example, NMS. You want to give the players a ton of different viable choices, but within the parameters of a game. I don't know that it's a good idea to just relax these parameters so much that there's no longer a challenge or fail state in the game. Of course, in thinking about this, I'm just staying within the premise that OP provided.
>where players can relax from other things and get to know the "doomsday counter" mechanic.
Yeah, I'm thinking a strategic-length game, so it probably would start off at a leisurely pace for the player to set things up and then ramp up the tension at some point as it goes towards some climactic showdown.
>Recearch may or may not always trigger the same thing.
Yeah, I thnk that's a good idea. It would add some randomness and risk to the choices you make about the countdown timer.
>And if u want to go with 100% fail state
I wasn't thinking that you would always fail, just that the engine (maybe a village around the wizard tower or something) would get its final test at the climax and you'd have to see if you could keep the thing you built over the course of the game alive when the wizards finish their research and the big bad happens.
>allow for player to retaliate again invaders
Yeah, something like that. Maybe not just combat, but with other possible final challenges. Maybe you wouldn't even know what you had to prepare for until halfway through the game.
When they are about to finish the research, I hire whores to seduce them and strip them off their wizard powers.
>Summon succubi to drain their mana
Ree
Buy them some form of magic drug for them to get addicted to.
Yes, they can rebel.
I never knew any whores that could do that
Well I kinda agree. But you see absolute freedom for a game is the best thing you can do... the only thing you need is gameplay mechanics and goals as to why would you dedicate all your time to one thing...
And that is supreme specialization.
IE: Imagine an MMO where a player dedicated time to being something totaly irrelevant and end up unlocking content people didnt even knew there is. Like Magicarp shit that ends up being OP when u go trough the shit lvling it up.
As for NMS it promised "ultimate freedom" but had nothing to support that freedom. This is intrisnical value of a true sandbox game, which NMS isnt.
All those numbers with 0 possibility to influence anything mean absolutely fucken nothing.
In order to create freedom, you must give players options.
Think "good stealth game design"
A good stealth game will give u tons of tools and tinkerable situations that u can use to pass a level unoticed, but if you think outside of the box, new gameplays emerge. A full blown out fight (how will that affect the player? and challenge him?)
Using level desing to help him out.. adding options to prioritize and improvise in case of failures.
That is what you should go for. Spontaneous improvisation.
I have been gaming so long, I miss the freedom to at least do things one way over 20 other ways more readily obvious. Games today consider 1 to 3 paths "varied options" and "gameplay freedom"
Well, shit.
I assumed the wizards would have regular normie instincts, like priests.
But yeah, it makes sense for a wizard to have strong will and dead libido. Or at least no interest in women, as interest in women could easily result in permanent mana loss.
A powerful wizard would most likely fireball any woman who would try to come near him.
>But you see absolute freedom for a game is the best thing you can do
No, I have to disagree here. There are some good sandbox games where you make your own fun, but if you're trying to make a game you want to give players lots of interesting choices to make, not give them absolute freedom to do absolutely anything and throw a goal out there. In Majesty, you can't just decide to go walking off the map into a forest and explore it with your hero buddies instead of defending your castle from the oncoming hordes, for example. Having lots of meaningful choices is different from "freedom to do anything"; you can do anything is not a game.
I miss the freedom to at least do things one way over 20 other ways more readily obvious. Games today consider 1 to 3 paths "varied options" and "gameplay freedom"
But if you think about it, what you're really missing is a game that supports a lot of interesting choices - ways to play - not necessarily an empty playground like NMS that lets you do anything. It's really important to distinguish freedom from choice.
Thinking like this is why we have generic shit. Instead imagine super horny old ass wizards that cant get it up but are embarrassed to use magic for something so ... indecent.
"They can wave that wand around, but the one below stopped working when they delved too much in the esoteric"
>But you see absolute freedom for a game is the best thing you can do...
Bullshit.
Absolute freedom actually results in limited choices because games are actually a bunch of mostly-linear functions with a bunch of fancy graphics on top.
It's limitations that keep it from being obvious and brainless.
>u
Go back to whatever shitty site you came from and don't come back until you learn to type like a non-retard.
I used poor choice of words
I consider the "you can do anything" game that does exactly what you said - interesting choices, various ways to progress and never restricting your options WITHIN the aspects of the game.
TLDR I agree with u just worded it badly. For me a true freedom is having 100 possibilities to deal with a smal event
-A spy was spotted, what do u do?
-Kill him
-Send him back to notify that we are now aware of their pressence
-Offer allience
-Publicly execute in defense
-Publicly execute in call to war
and many many more...
That is what i consider brilliant! I hope i cleared it up
However- this requires more subsystems and path threads and not offer fake "choice" where 10 different options lead to same unchanged event and many devs half ass this aspect robbing the player of enjoying their choices (and making them not want to replay at all)
>Absolute freedom actually results in limited choices because games are actually a bunch of mostly-linear functions with a bunch of fancy graphics on top.
Yeah, definitely the technology behind video games is an extreme limitation on complete open-endedness. But even in designing a board game, not creating a boundary for the game would prevent you from creating interesting mechanics and meaningful choices for players. The ultimate freedom for a game in that sense would be giving players a pencil and a blank piece of paper.
So. What your saying is it's always going to happen..
Limited choice means no more jobs other than research?
>Mad cus internet spelling
>Cant read the rest of interesting thread
>Rages for no apparent reason
No u
>I consider the "you can do anything" game that does exactly what you said - interesting choices, various ways to progress and never restricting your options WITHIN the aspects of the game.
Right, I thought you did, but I wanted us to agree that this is not "freedom" - in order to create those choices we need to create a boundary for the game. Less freedom in this sense means more choices, and simple games with very little freedom like chess can end up with many, many possible choices.
>This requires more subsystems and path threads and not offer fake "choice"
Yeah, I agree with that. In my opinion, actual design on most video games is practically non-existent. Everyone's thinking about flashy graphics, art style, or some high-concept gimmick, but devs don't seem to bother to actually make a fun game. I mean, NMS doesn't even have a game within it at all. That's why it's boring. That amazes me, really.
It's funny how mages usually are lecherous old men or assexual transcendental beings.
They're on permanent nofap out of necessity.
Tell them to research the most optimal way to kill wizards. By the end of it, there'll be one left standing and I'll have plenty of options.
I agree. I hope miraculously I end up in a game studio so I can dedicate people to making all kinds of choice paths and make a realy player driven gameplay without faking any of it.
I honestly miss the time where games challenged us. Felt like devs were talking to me trough the game. And now they want to talk with my wallet while trowing dust in my eyes and censoring me when I criticize.
Well user, If u need me any time for help like this: [email protected]
(my user email)
On a completely different note, I don't think anyone has answered OP's question.
He got some good responses in... at this point one must work with info and imagine it for himself.
Suck their dicks
What the hell does the barracks do in Dungeon keeper? Is it an arena or something.
dungeonkeeper.wikia.com
I could never get this shit to work.
Use nuclear strike