Decided to play Morrowind to check what the fuss is all about

>decided to play Morrowind to check what the fuss is all about
>NPCs are mannequins, Gothic had a world that felt more alive
>missing at point blank xD
>AAAAH WATCH THE SKY NIGGA, WATCH THE SKY
>wikipedia dialogue system

Other urls found in this thread:

uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Combat#Chance_to_Hit
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>Gothic had a world that felt more alive
Gothfags get out

But it's true.

>Gothic had a world that felt more alive
yes, but gothic had just 3 camps and that's that

Better than having 10 half assed towns.

fuck off

This is true, but hardly changes anything. Morrowind felt more alive than Daggerfall in some ways because it picked a goal where it was more achievable. But just because it's smaller doesn't mean Daggerfall wins by default.

Gothic 1+2
>3 camps with their own progression
>exclusive to each other
>each camp changes the story and interaction with other people
>people say youre the chosen one, you say fuckit and do what you want anyway, for your own gains.

Every TES game ever
>Leader of Thievesguild
>Leader of Dark Brotherhood
>Leader of the Magesguild
>Leader of the Fightersguild
>Champion of the Arena
>Chosen one of everything
>Being the leader of something gives you one voiceline with the guards

yes, TES is so much deeper and everything, SO immersive

>>AAAAH WATCH THE SKY NIGGA, WATCH THE SKY

you didn't play Morrowind, deluded eurocuck.

>Arena
>Daggerfall
>Morrowind
>voiceline

reminder that the best way to make other people trust your judgement is to show you couldn't understand a basic combat system and putting memes/pastas in

oh im sorry, you get a textline, since morrowind, a game that came after gothic, didnt have voice acting, besides the occasional hello.

to be fair, it's an absolute ballache of a combat system

i'm not saying it's good but that if you couldn't figure it out you're hardly qualified to judge the game, or any game for that matter

literally the same argument as >>>>>

How do I into Morrowind?
I've tried a couple of characters, but I am having a lot of trouble getting into the game's combat and questing systems.

You are exaggerating, my friend. Your camp selection changes next to nothing as starting from Chapter 2 the game becomes full on linear main quest mode and your faction essentially stops mattering. This is one of those things on which Gothic 2 really improved.

>people say youre the chosen one, you say fuckit and do what you want anyway, for your own gains
You fulfill the prophecy all the same. And speaking of "chosen of everything", throughout the trilogy you become the chosen of everything and everyone one could possibly become a chosen of.

Gothic managed to pull off a character progression system where you can see how fucking horribly the protagonist sucks at combat without going full retard with it like Morrowind did. Dice rolls are one thing, but you have to be careful not to pick a system that doesn't make a modicum of sense for the type of game you are making.

In Morrowind, if you advance the Thieves' Guild too far before the Fighter's Guild, you become unable to complete the Fighter's Guild.
If you join a Great House, you become unable to join another Great House without an exploit.
If you roll an Argonian, you're unable to complete the Tribunal Temple because you cannot pass Vivec's test of faith.
You can't join the Dark Brotherhood at all.

In Daggerfall, the consequences of certain actions are even more in-depth.
Confirmed for Oblivion being your first game.

Why the fuck would I ever play Gothic games when I can play Witcher 1, 2 and 3? Both are similar.

Elder Scrolls series is unique.

>If you roll an Argonian, you're unable to complete the Tribunal Temple because you cannot pass Vivec's test of faith.

Not true. All you have to do is get your HP low enough, the game doesn't care how you do it.

oh fuck you,

just level up your stats, the missing is annoying bu it's become easier to deal with once you get higher damage
in the journal, click the options and there should be an option called 'quests', there's your quest log for some reason.

Dice rolls are absolutely appropriate for an RPG.
>But it's real time so this means you can't keep things that annoy spastics
Not an argument

avoid combat against anything bigger than a rat as much as you can until you get better gear. Every now and then take a swim with some fish to grind your defensive stats. become a member of the mages guild ASAP so you can use their teleportation network.
abuse the fuck out of the boots of blinding speed

The visual combat is a symbolic representation of the calculations that are going on, but I don't need to tell you that "sword hitting person" doesn't actually mean that. Take a look at uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Combat#Chance_to_Hit and learn what numbers you need to pay attention to. As a spellcaster or a marksman (with the exception of a mage that uses touch spell), obviously try to keep your distance.

Oh and please, charge your melee attacks. Don't clickspam.

As for quests, take as few as you can at a time so won't get lost in your own journal. There are phrases you can click on in the journal to recall what an NPC has said about it. It's mostly about memorization, there aren't markers or even much of a sequence to anything.

If you don't get something or it's frustrating, don't be afraid to just explore in a random direction.

How many RPGs do you know that combine dice roll combat with a stamina system? The way it worked in Arena and Daggerfall was a fine way to do it. But Morrowind's version of the system is utter bullshit.

Wait for Skywind to get a clean, Michael Bay style runthrough of Morrowind. Then wait a bit longer (we're talking minimum 5 years, to be honest) when OpenMW has been out for a while and the good bits of Skywind are transferred over and there's a healthy mod ecosystem going. That's what I'm waiting for, for one final playthrough.

What makes you think he couldn't figure it out. I figured it out, it's braindead fucking simple, but you're still going to miss like he describes SOMETIMES as a fresh character unless you're going out of your way to abuse magic and shit to boost your skills way beyond what they should be at.

>people say youre the chosen one, you say fuckit and do what you want anyway, for your own gains.
You're not told you're the chosen one until well into the main quest. You can drop Ciaus's orders on the ground as soon as you get checked out the boat and do whatever you want. Or you can give him the package and tell him you don't give a shit about the orders inside. You are given absolute freedom and the only intrusive thing is a pop up that says, "You're on your own own. This button brings up the journal. Maybe check out the building over there. Have fun"

And it's not a problem at all even if you miss 5 times in a row sometimes. If you ever lose a fight because you missed too much you were simple too weak to be fighting. The game throws all kinds of potions at you that boost agility and strength to make combat easier, it's not the game's fault that the average player avoids all the Sujamma and other buffs you can find in every dungeon.

Never played much Arena, but in Daggerfall stamina might as well not exist. It's meant to represent your character's physical endurance over an entire day or something, but you'll nearly never suffer the consequences of running out of it. It can be restored faster and more easily than health, and you'll lose it much more slowly than health in the average dungeon crawl.
What ends up happening is that whenever you rest to heal up, your quarter empty stamina bar is now full again and over the course of a session never gets close to emptying. Also it only acts as a slower health bar, it doesn't have a larger role outside of being a countdown timer to death.
Morrowind made stamina a part of the moment to moment gameplay, which is better.

>Vivec's test of faith for Argonians require them to intentionally hurt themselves
Absolutely CHIM

You have to look at the entire design idea behind the game, not just the system itself in isolation.

At there core, Arena and Daggerfall are both about resource management, and time is one of your most important resources.

In Arena the key is limited resting. Safe resting platforms can be very rare in dungeons, and combined with their size, labyrinthine design, and there being no easy escape once you are deep enough gives meaning to stamina.

In Daggerfall (Arena too, to a lesser degree), the key is time limit. You will explore dungeons while being on a timer, and wasting time by resting is a risk you have to consider. Unlike in Arena, potions in Daggerfall are much harder to acquire, and are a bit of a faction privilege as well. Even if you can restore it with magic, this is once again a choice you have to make. What is more valuable to you at the moment, your mana (which you can restore only by resting or potions that you won't have in abundance), or your time? It is devastating to spend hours crawling through a dungeon only to miss your quest by a few hours. Mages have it fairly easy, but for a non-caster stamina can be downright crippling.

What is stamina in Morrowind? How does it contribute to the game design? Just think about it, most players basically get completely rid of the stamina system the first chance they get by getting a stamina regeneration item.

It's not a problem because you lose fights it's a problem because there is a disconnect between what you see and what actually happens. If I watched my sword go through a guy's face I expect that to be a hit goddamnit.

Towns are one of the best things of Morrowind. Where can you find a town with a mad moon prepared to destroy everything?

haven't played morrowind, right?

I liked both.

Your points for Gothic 1+2 all literally apply to Morrowind

>have literally 0 skill with a sword
>WHY CANT I USE A SWORD?!
fucking CoD generation

Pick a weapon and then stick with that type. If you want to use a longsword then dump your stats into strength and longsword. Charge all your attacks and never attack unless your fatigue is full. Listen to the other user and abuse the boots so you don't walk as fast as a snail.

what was the name of that Morrowind/Skyrim overhaul? is it doing well? does it look promising?

Be more specific here, which overhaul do you mean?

I didnt realize there were more than one. It was made a big deal of a few months ago but everyone here mostly shitted on it. I'm kind of interested even if uses Skyrim's shitty engine.

Oh you mean Endearal? Yeah I hear it and its predecessor, Nehrim (made using oblivion) are pretty good.

>make shit tons of lightning shield potions
>drink them all at once
>walk up to any aggro'd NPC
>they fall down and die

Morrowind fags think every flaw is a feature.
They will not give an inch on any point.

Combat sucks
MWfag "You are the problem not the combat"

Wikispeak
MWfag "Reading to hard for you?"

It is pavlovian at this point for MWfags.
They know the arguments and the proper response by heart.

MW was a game with an outstanding MQ and subpar everything else.

I enjoyed the fuck out of it but to claim it is flawless is asinine.

>3 camps with their own progression
You mean like House Redoran, House Telvanni, or House Hlaalu?
>exclusive to each other
Once you join a great house, you cannot join another and people from the other houses dislike you for being in a rival house
>each camp changes the story and interaction with other people
There's quests in the main story that can vary depending on what factions you're in, and as I said before people will dislike you for the house you're in, and it applies to any other faction that has rivals
>people say you're the chosen one, you say fuck it and do whatever you want for your own gains
You're not told you're the chosen one until mid way through the story, and even then you have to do many different quests and trials to actually PROVE you're the chosen one, and even then when you are, you still can fuck off from the main quest and do literally anything you want, just like any other TES game

Looks like you didn't play Morrowind, bitch.

Morrowind had a larger world than Gothic and it was more denser as well, so they sacrificed voice acting for more world data. Also, most old school RPGs just had text instead of voice acting, it's really not that big of a deal unless you're some autist who is constantly talking to NPCs for whatever reason

>Wikispeak
OK, riddle me this, because I honestly don't get it. What exactly is wrong with generic townsman NPCs at least being able to give you directions and shit, instead of just having one non-dialogue greeting like in Oblivion/Skyrim?

Where's the cinematic experience brah???

These people are just idiots who like skyrim too much and think the sub shines out of Todd's asshole

>I enjoyed the fuck out of it but to claim it is flawless is asinine.
Nobody claims it's flawless. You just need to point out the actual flaws.

This. Morrowind has actual flaws. There are hundreds of scripting errors, glitches out the arse, animations stiffer than my dick when I fap to Touhous, an engine that's so fucktarded and locked down modern hardware can't handle running with medium quality modded assets, etc. etc.

Wikispeak isn't a flaw as much as a design choice, which may not appeal to some people. So is the diceroll combat. They're not inherently, objectively bad. Shit like listed above is.

Just find a monster and click endlessly.

You could get directions in Oblivion.

Only in towns, only from dialogue-enabled NPCs.

Get a sword right now and try to kill something. See if you're successful, even though you've never even seen a real sword in your life.

Almost all NPCs are "dialogue-enabled".

The letter that preceded you mentioned you were born under a certain sign.

And what would that be?

I finally have played morrowind enough that i got comfortable enough with everything that was so hard in the beginning. Boots of blinding speed were a game changer

Very few of them have the Directions dialogue topic enabled.

Woah, big fucking deal, you still know who you have to talk to get directions. In Oblivion you can start a quest by overhearing NPCs talking to each other, in Morrowind you can't. Different games with different systems.

They have an encyclopedic knowledge on every topic.

It is as informative as a wiki without the charm.

The easy one is the combat.
You already knew that though.

I have killed snakes with knife, with a sharpened stick and a stone I just picked up, I killed them with a shovel, with pitchfork, and with rake. And I killed them by stepping on them.

Are you seriously telling me you wouldn't be able to hit a crab the size of a chicken right in front of you?

Most people did, but this is Sup Forums. If you aren't going to shit on everything you may as well not be here.

>big fucking deal
I'm not saying it is. I'm asking why NOT having those dialogue options on generic NPCs, like in Oblivion, is somehow better than having them, like in Morrowind. What's wrong with having that option? What's wrong with such a feature?

But he means that even when not knowing how to use a sword you can kill somebody with it. It's a weapon, and everyone can fucking swing long piece of metal.

Unless you're six, which is too early to post on Sup Forums.

Tbh he's right. Still waiting for another game to fill that prison colony vibe. I enjoyed those random tiny towns up north in Morrowind though.

Go hit a punching bag until you pass out.
Using realism as a shield is not wise when defending Morrowind.

Yeah, I fucked up. My post was meant for the post he replied to.

>wikipedia dialogue system
Made me almost laugh. It IS a pretty stupid system though, I'll give you that. All the NPCs end up saying the same thing, though that's not a Morrowind specific problem. Western RPGs in general suffer from faceless NPCs who all draw from a common dialogue pool, it's pretty stupid. Might as well only have one person in town if they're all the same.

Every NPC should have something unique to say even if it's something useless like 'there are many guards in the castle!' or they have no reason to exist.

don't. he's user on Sup Forums, and will probably spin yarns about being a ninja or a navy seal or some shit

Download MGSO, everything is fixed and it looks better than any TES game

Not to mention that every dark elf sounded the fucking same.

From what little I've played of Arena, resting areas are scarce, but finding resting areas in Daggerfall is the easiest thing, especially if you expended enough effort to use up all that stamina.
The most punishing timers in the game usually come from the randomly generated faction quests, which are a dime a dozen. I also don't see completing a quest as the point of taking one. Quests to me are more of a motivation and means to explore the massive amount of huge dungeons on offer in Daggerfall. You'll find more awesome rewards dungeon crawling than from faction quest givers. Often, the dungeon would pay out better gold than the actual commission for the job. You also have to remember the scale of Daggerfall's dungeons wouldn't be appropriate for Morrowind.
Also warrior characters generally have a harder time in Daggerfall, most people would sooner recommend a battlemage class to new players rather than a trusty sword and board set up. Unless you get lucky with the loot drop RNG, you struggle immensely as the game progresses.
I'd like to reiterate my point that stamina is redundant because magic and health sooner bottleneck dungeon progression by a nautical mile. That's how my experience with it has been.

>install a mod to improve the graphics
>get out of the boat
>suddenly Morgan Freeman
>get spooked and uninstall the game

>people always criticize the combat and dialogue of Morrowind first
they're just the minor issues of the game. Like every other TES the primary issue is the shitty copypasted dungeons and the generic fetch quests that are 90% of the game's content. All of the TES games have the exact same flaws.

All races had only one voice actor, and it's pretty much the same thing in Oblivion too.

The topics you can ask them are almost always asinine stuff like religions or knowledge about the region, maybe some person on the city or shit about them.
Everyone that has lived in a town for a few years should be able of answering those questions.

Shitty combat
Minor

Pick one user.

I used to love Morrowind but I recently started playing it again and it's so fucking boring. Most of the quests are fetch quests that have you wandering or teleporting across the world to deliver or receive an item. The dungeons all look the same, so even exploring a dungeon that I haven't visited before in my previous 100s of hours of gameplay isn't exciting.
The best thing I can say about it is the world design. At least games such as Wizardry and Ultima haven't grown stale.

Morrowind has literally no copypasted dungeon.

>Most of the quests are fetch quests that have you wandering or teleporting across the world to deliver or receive an item.
Then why the fuck are you even doing them.
Quests don't give you anything but money in TES games, you have absolutely no reason to be an errand boy unlike virtually any other RPG.

Yes and they chose the most boring way possible to show that.

Some people like the lore dump I do not.
At least put some effort into it.

The gameplay of morrowind in general is rather shitty, not just the combat.
Also the quests aren't primarily dungeons and the fetch quests often involve fucking with an enemy faction, making them make sense.

What the fuck do you expect when you ask some random NPC about the Odai river or some shit? Some exciting tale about how he went to fish there and a nix-hound raped his wife? You're going to get directions and how to find it and that's it.

Those options are for when you don't know about anything so you can ask the people that live there, you know, what you would do if you found yourself in the same situation in real life.

About once every two years I try to make another vanilla Morrowind run but at some point within the first 15 levels I'll just abuse the alchemy system

So what do I do? Walk around the world and kill the occasional mudcrab? The combat sucks. The quests suck. Exploration sucks once you've visited everything. Levelling up sucks since everything else sucks. I used to love this game, but it sucks now.

>Morrowind
>Copypasted dungeons

That's it. Get the fuck out of this thread.

Lover
Or Lady.

>The combat sucks.
Nah magic is great.
>The quests suck.
Not all of them.
>Exploration sucks once you've visited everything.
Whoa no fucking shit.

>Just playing Morrowind in 2016
>Expecting to have the same experience everyone else had over a decade ago while you yourself being a teenage piece of shit

T
O
W
E
R

Anyone here playing Enderal? I can't fucking see shit when it's dark and I'm supposed to go to Ark with the guy but I can't find the path because it's pitch fucking black at night. Is there a torch somewhere?

With regards to Morrowind's stamina system, I see it as a managed resource for the amount of physical actions you can take at a moment.
I never made stamina regen items, mostly because I got used to it and management becomes habit, but also because I gear my character's abilities towards more efficient management of it early on. If you're a magicky kind of person maybe you use a cheap spell or keep homebrewed potions in your inventory. As a warrior I would train in spears to boost endurance and live the meme of being a spear user in an Elder Scrolls game, which gives you a huge pool of stamina to work with. Warrior builds probably have the less problems with stamina because they're more athletic. Since thieves are supposed to be slow and patient to be discrete, they usually have the least problems with stamina. Playing a mixed class you have multiple options to choose from. If you don't cheese, different builds have different ways of dealing with stamina which adds depth to the game.

>recycling the same assets and enemies over and over isn't copypasting because they have a slightly different piece of loot at the end

I tried making a fortify speed potion with Kaghouti Hide and Shalk Resin, but that also had Drain Fatigue. So I tried Kaghouti Hide and Moon Sugar, which should have no effect but Fortify Speed. But every potion I create now also has Drain Fatigue attached to it!

It would have been nice if they all didn't have the exact same response.

It would also have been nice if the Empire taught the dumner hicks to read a map.

By that logic every single game that isn't procedural generation crap is copypasted.
You fucking retard.