The great debate: Nomura or Tabata?

The great debate: Nomura or Tabata?

strawpoll.me/11088303

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Honestly, Toriyama is even better than Tabata at this point

That's objectively false.

Type 0 was better than any of the XIII games.

No it wasn't, played the entire XIII Trilogy and Type-0 is the worst FF ever to exist, game is pure trash

Nomura is, but he needs to tell the Osaka Team to get their shit together for KH3.

That's not much of an accomplishment.

Tabata is an incompetent fuck and that's not even up for debate

The great debate: shit or shit?

Yeah no. Lightning Returns was WAY better than Type-0

They're both shit

THAT's obviously false.

>Nomura winning

Sup Forums is alright sometimes

Is it even up for debate?

Most people hate him because
>wahh he takes forever to release games
But that's mostly because Square always wants him on muliple games at the same time
Even when i finally thought he could work on KH3, he suddenly has to work on 7R

Is it true that you can't drive the car in XV anymore? If that's true I will officially drop this game

It might as well be on rails only
You can steer a bit to the left and right and turning corners is almost automatic
It's mostly a story means to an end

This. Square is literally so incompetent that they NEED Nomura on pretty much every big project so it will not fail. He didn't even know he was directing Final Fantasy VII Remake. Square came to Nomura first asking questions about what to do with a FF 7 Remake and then suddenly boom he was the director.

If Nomura leaves Square, they will be so fucked it's not even funny

THEN WHAT IS THE FUCKING POINT OF MAKING AN OPEN WORLD GAME IF YOU CAN'T EVEN DRIVE AROUND WHERE EVER YOU WANT HOLY SHIT TABATA YOU FUCKING INCOMPETENT FUCK I AM LEGIT MAD

I mean, you still have chocobos and it doesn't look like the world is anything but big empty fields anyway

How can one man destroy a game so badly?

Neither; they can both fuck off and take Toriyama with them.

Based Yoshida is our god now.

Tabata's game is actually getting finished/released
They also decided to announce KH3, with Nomura as lead, while he was doing the newly announced XV and then also secretly doing FF7R.

>Tabata fucks up FF so badly that it's on the verge of bankruptcy again
>Nomura has to bail Square out with FF7 Remake

It doesn't matter if Tabata gets the game done if it's bad in the end

Nomura for anime flick.

Tabata for western kino.

Tabata has made nothing but mediocre handheld games and it's clear he has no directorial vision and is just following trends and fan demands instead of pursuing a vision for the game.

I don't like Nomura's excess or most of his modern character designs but he's a far better director and creator.

>Tabata's game is actually getting finished/release

So an unpolished turd? Just because the game is coming out doesn't mean it will be good user. XV is looking like it was rushed as fuck which is ironic as fuck

I hate Nomura with quite a bit of passion, but Tabata has never made a game that I could call not bad to terrible in good conscience, even if I happen to like Before Crisis. I can't believe he is so gameplay focused as a director, when his gameplay is always bad. At least his title screen cinematic won't be the same as the opening cinematic. I can always count on that.

Culturally instead of directorially for S-E, Nomura is the worst though.

>FF XV combat could have been like Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix if Nomura was still in charge

It still hurts
youtube.com/watch?v=uQ7MwTXYLpg

>inb4 someone posts the webm with the dumb animation comparison and says that XV combat is still the same

>all these neo-Sup Forums Nomurafags invading the board

Friendly reminder that the VII remakes will become vaporware because Shitmura is just an ideas guy with awful skills in actually directing a large scale project that isn't Kingdom Hearts.

Looks like shit tbqh.

KH 2 FM is better than ANY game Tabata or Toriyama has ever made and that is a FACT

Square took Nomura off of XV so he could do the Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Kingdom Hearts 3, and Kingdom Hearts 2.8

Very clearly, they value him more than Tabata

Where is the evidence that Nomura produces vaporware? Versus XIII? That didn't even go into full production until 2011 or so. Is it Nomura's fault Square reallocated resources and manpower?

>Tabata has made nothing but mediocre handheld games and it's clear he has no directorial vision and is just following trends and fan demands instead of pursuing a vision for the game

Right, because Nomura's generic anime hack n slash copycat was such a revolutionary vision for Versus XIII. He's such a "far better director" that Squeenix had to fucking pull him from the project because he had no idea what he was doing and put the ENTIRE GAME in production hell because he kept leading the development into inflation.

Fuck off.

>that Squeenix had to fucking pull him from the project because he had no idea what he was doing and put the ENTIRE GAME in production hell because he kept leading the development into inflation.

Are you fucking retarded? They needed him for KH 3 and FF 7 Remake. Those are WAY bigger priorities for Square than FF XV. Even though know he would go insane working on 3 AAA huge blockbuster games at the same time

The VII remake and KH 2.8 weren't even conceptualized before Square took him off XV, dumbass.

>asks for evidence
>proceeds to say "That didn't even go into full production until 2011"

You're an idiot.

Nomura isn't a suit. He doesn't choose his manpower or decide when a game enters full production.

Not that guy, but Tabata replaced Nomura as director before the 7 remake was even a thing.

The replacement happened in what, 2013? No way they didn't have the remake decided on by then.

Never thought I'd see the day where I would agree with that statement.

Neither. Final Fantasy has been trash for almost two decades.

The replacement was in 2014
FF 7 Remake announcement was in 2015
Nomura said they were working on the remake long before the E3 announcement. So you know what that means right? Nomura was replaced so he can actually work on FF 7 Remake

>i-it wasn't Nomura's fault, h-he just didn't have enough manpower!

Every time.

Protip: If a game doesn't enter full production for years despite the company stating that the team was doing everything it could to advance the project beforehand, it's almost always specifically caused by unrealistic project management.

Full production is a not a point on a process bar. It's a state of production.

A game doesn't enter full production when it gets to be 30% completed or some fallacy like that.

FUCK that looks fun.

Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt that the FF 7 remake was a thing since 2014, that's still 8 fucking years between 2006 and 2014.

I wonder what your next excuse will be when it's 2025 and the VII remake is nowhere to be found.

Thanks for the manjaw Tabata, she actually looked Asian before, ewwww.

Now we get this awesome redesign where Luna doesn't look like anime but like a realistic meth whore.

God bless you, Tabata. It will be a masterpiece.

>missing the point entirely

Nowhere in my post did I imply any of that. Learn to read.

go outside

>that's still 8 fucking years between 2006 and 2014

This nearly killed the entire company again. It bombed so hard Square lost so much money and it halted production of several games in development (some where outright cancelled like Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep Volume 2)

You can't make progress if it doesn't enter full production. Were you dropped on the head?

Just because women look like transexuals in your shitty country doesn't mean women look like transexuals.

Stop fapping to traps.

Were you dropped on yours? Nowhere in my post did I imply that full production is a point on a "process bar" or that a game could make progress if it wasn't in full production, I just said that lingering pre-production is almost always caused by unrealistic conceptualization.

The conceptualization of Versus was far more realistic than what FFXV ended up being. To the point where the FFXV devs begged Tabata not to make it open world because the engine couldn't handle it, and he insisted anyway.

Did you play it more than once? I can't think of a single game that's worse. The game is the definition of wasted potential. They could have done so much right with what they had, and they fucked up the combat in ways that I could never even imagine until I played that game. Lightning Returns is better in every possible way.

>To the point where the FFXV devs begged Tabata not to make it open world because the engine couldn't handle it, and he insisted anyway.
Seriously? Source?

13-2 is better than Type 0

youtube.com/watch?v=YiIx9VJWSl8

To all the oldfags that were here 5 years old ago like myself, do you remember the day Square dropped this trailer for Final Fantasy Versus XIII ? Do you remember the utter hype and joy this trailer bought Sup Forums? This place exploded and it was such a great experience.

Well all that joy is now dead and this is not the game we will get. I feel my soul is on fire

>The conceptualization of Versus was far more realistic

No it fucking wasn't, please stop with the desperate revisionism. Nomura flat-out admitted that he had issues conceptualizing the project during the first few years of development.

He's an ideas guy who bit off more than he could chew and he got booted. Quit sugarcoating shit and defending him.

Holy fuck, what happened to this board? It wasn't even a few years ago that everyone here was fully aware of how incompetent Nomura is.

Lightning Returns > 13 -2 > Type 0 > 13

The game was about to enter full production in 2011 which it was when we last heard of the game before 2013.

The game was never in anything other than pre-production because there really was nobody available to develop it.

"Nomura didn't have the man power" is not a meme, it's a fact, or did you forget how crystals tool was a complete shit show of an engine that wasn't capable of running anything other than hallways which lead in the XIII team having 0 vision for the game and missing every single deadline until 2008 which was when the Versus XIII team went and helped them finish it in time for the 2009 release.

Versus XIII didn't have an engine to be developed on, didn't a have a team to work on it even because they had to salvage XIII and later XIV.

People are throwing a lot of shit at Nomura for failing to bring the concept of Versus xIII to life but the truth is that he never had the chance to.

Besides, the man works more than almost anyone else on SE, he barely sleeps and he worked on or directed almost every game SE released in the past 20 years.

If he was so bad at bringing concepts together and directing games i doubt he would be directing VIIR and KH3 at the same time right now.

Just me 5 cents because i see a lot of bullshit about this matter in every XV thread.

To be fair most of those are for character designer
Nomura is still better

There is no source, Nomurafags love to make shit up.

fuck off tabatafag dualshockers.com/2016/04/09/final-fantasy-xvs-biggest-internal-discussion-was-on-making-the-game-open-world-or-not/

he went into more detail about this in another interview explaining how the dev team was completely opposing this idea and how they told him that the game would be open and empty if they went on with it but he replied that "it was ok to make it empty"

I think it was on 4gamer or some shit.

>Nomura with 75% of the vote

Based Nomura. I want Nomura and Kojima to make a game together since they are best friends. Kojima even told Nomura he should remake Final Fantasy VII one day while they were having lunch

>he got booted
>Nomura got kicked from directing his own game

that's sad as hell

>Death Hearts: Kindgom Stranding

Terrible choices.

I'd play the shit out of that

he didn't get kicked, that's just xv-kun making shit up.

>It wasn't even a few years ago that everyone here was fully aware of how incompetent Nomura is.
The FFXV hatred has made them blind, and now Nomura's the second coming.
It's like we all forgot the fact that it's taken him 15+ years to tell a single story.
Then again who knows, maybe he would've been good for Versus if he was restrained to one game.

100% Serious question

What if Noctis was a girl?

We heard about it getting canned and rolled over into a new project in 2012.

If Kingdom Hearts is anything to go off of, I don't think Nomura could have handled directing a more """"mature"""" game like FFVersus/FFXV anyways.

He would be female

Nomura is a veteran. He's one the last remaining talents left from Golden Age Squaresoft. He knows his shit. Tabata is clearly not ready to handle something like this. He's only done portable games and the HD port of Type-0 was awful and that should have been a sign right there he's not ready for the big leagues.

>he knows his shit
>hasn't shipped a AAA game since KH2

Old and busted. He hasn't proven himself in over a decade.

Why would you even compare it to KH?
If anything the trailers are already more mature than anything in KH
And the gameplay would certainly be better and they'd have focused on good performance and consistent artstyle and not just go open world because gotta suck that western audience dick

>it was actually true
I am sorry Kotaku.

He's literally remaking FF 7 and was one of the key important guys behind the original FF 7. What are you talking about ?

Not exactly his fault when Square pulls him into every fucking game they have
He never has the chance to just work and one game and finish it

We would've finally got our Kill la Kill game

I know he did FFVII's character design and battle directing, but did he contribute to the story or was that all sakaguchi?

Good for Nomura to take on a billion projects and get shafted by SE waiting to make Versus. Why are we to believe he can get anything else done there in the AAA realm if he has been stuck elsewhere? He's not proven. Blame whoever else you'd like, but he's hardly the man worth trusting to deliver.

Reminder that there is still some hope in this world and people can still tell what's good and what's bad.

Even if you don't like Nomura it's obvious that he is at least better than Hackbata and his endless west dick sucking.

ff14 best ff

He did a decent amount

Nomura and Sakaguchi came up with the story and Nomura came up with all the character's backstory and characterizations

Nomura and Kitase wrote most of the story. Sakaguchis original story was scrapped and they only used ideas from it but they credited him as the creator of the base story and cocept despite his story being completely different.

Nojima wrote the scenario and fleshed out backgrounds based on the story Kitase and Nomura created.

Nomura also came up with killing Aerith and that's why he had Tifa in the party, to have a female character help Cloud get over her death.

Well that's new, I didn't know he was this involved.
Also are there any Art books or something that contain interviews that are available for FFVII?

I've always seen original concept art posted online and on the wiki, but I've never been able to find a book with all of it in one place.

Pretty much every FF game has a Ultimania, they're really rare though unless you can read japanese. The japanese versions are really cheap and they're also really great artbooks

>Well that's new, I didn't know he was this involved.

Nobody does because nobody really cares, they only want to shitpost against Nomura and meme about belts, zippers and MUH 10 YEARS.

Also pretty much everyone agrees that kh1 had a pretty simple and good story but nobody knows the reason it expanded so much and became confusing was because Sakaguchi told him that if he wants to compete against Final Fantasy he should make more elaborate plots with lots of twists and questions that will leave the fans guessing.

This is exactly what Nomura did and it worked.

Why do people keep acting like they have the whole story about the production changes of this game? It was clearly in developmental hell and SE has had issues pushing out FF games since 12. Who's to say upper management didn't muck things up or internal strife didn't make things go south? How do you even know Nomura was really going on track with everything how do we know he wasn't the one at fault and vice versa for Tabata?

There are just too many factors to simply blame one or two names.

I like Nomuras games and the games he worked on without being director and he seems like a nice guy. Tabata made games that were mediocre at best and he just seems like a guy that thinks too much of himself

Most people only hate Nomura because they only know him for KH

There should be. I remember somebody posted here an interview from the FF 7 Ultimania that the scene with Cloud and Tifa before the final fight with Sephiroth was way more risque. Originally, it was going to show the morning after and Cloud walks out of the Chocobo stable on the airship and then Tifa was going to sneak out after he left pretty much confirming they indeed had sex but Square thought was too extreme so they made the version we see today were it's implied they had sex

>how do we know he wasn't the one at fault
Well do you have any convincing arguments that he could have been? Because I doubt if he was doing badly with XV that he'd still get to work on KH3 and the FF7 remake.

This so much this. I'm so glad most of Sup Forums now has actually done research instead of blindly bashing Nomura for no reason at all. He's a key figure for Square. But you still have retards who still shitpost about Nomura. I honestly saw somebody blame Nomura for designing Vaan when Nomura had absolutely nothing to do with FF 12. Some people just like to put the blame on somebody when they don't even know who to blame and since Nomura is the most popular at Square, he becomes the lightning rod for the most blind idiots

>Tabata made games that were mediocre at best and he just seems like a guy that thinks too much of himself

Man Tabata's ego is fucking unreal. He got to work on a mainline FF game and suddenly he thinks he's God's gift to gaming. Final Fantasy XV wouldn't get so much shit if Tabata didn't overhype the game and say shit like "I want other games to look at FF XV and be scared". Why Square let this man talk is beyond me