ITT: RPG villains that did nothing wrong

ITT: RPG villains that did nothing wrong

>Steals tens of thousands of souls from babies to power up a fucked up deity that wants to rule the world
Yeah, 100% justified

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he was just a goddess lapdg. destroyed his soul after i killed him.

Souls move from body to body all the time. Sometimes they end up more. More often, they end up much less. Thaos is staving off the end by reinforcing a godly soul. There is no infanticide here.

Woedica was a machine that he tended.

Same, I was playing as a full moralfag character but I just couldn't under any circumstances allow his soul to live because Woedica could totally take control of him again or some shit.

He was a power hungry cuck who sold his loyalty to Woedica and was prepared to do anything to promote her agenda, because all he cared about was his own well being.

He is a prime example of an egotist, who is ready to sacrifice everything and everyone as long as he gets something out of it.

He deserved to die like the edgy bitch he was.

>You could live a normal life
>Or you can be fed to some fucked up goddess machine

Yeah, no. The machines suck souls and souls appear when things are born. It's infanticide.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with compressing time. Not only do you get to do more, you also experience the past, present and future in one lifetime.

>Woedica was a machine that he tended.
It's not a machine when it has will.

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What? Yes it is.

No, it's not.

Robots aren't machines?

>The machines suck souls and souls appear when things are born. It's infanticide.
That's literally not what happens. Did you actually play the game? Just zone out whenever souls or essence were brought up?

Souls don't just "appear". They're always there. They split sometimes, fuse other times. But there's a finite number that is constantly going down.

And Woedica doesn't "take control" of Thaos. She was always appointed head of the pantheon he was meant to curate. Thaos is reincarnated perfectly with full awakening to his past lives after every death due to his knowledge of the workings of Engwithan animancy.

Seriously, people, this isn't hard to keep track of. Most of the game is about this shit.

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>It's not a machine when it has will.
But you are.

You know memeing about Thaos and Kreia aside...realistically, Saren was doing the only logical thing in that scenario. He really did do nothing wrong. A shame Bioware are shitty writers.

But he starred in one of the worst RPG's I've ever played, he kinda did that fucking wrong.

>memeing about ... Kreia
Kreia LITERALLY did nothing wrong, though.

Robots don't have will, they cannot do anything outside their programming, so they're just machines. Unless someone develops a fully functioning self-learning AI that is capable of independent decision and action, robots will always be machines.

I'm aware of all you have said and it doesn't change shit.
Souls that would normally be entering a vessel for them to live through are now being sucked up to power up a machine that some ancient civilization programmed to dictate the faith of men.
That's wrong.

What if the machine prevented WW2?

>they cannot do anything outside their programming
Neither can the gods in Pillars of Eternity, they were designed by the Engwithians to have the moral code and thoughts they do

>Saren
>Betrays everyone and everything, guns down his allies from behind in cold blood
>Is literally the progenitor of the traitor faction that's explained to appear every time the reapers show up to undermine any attempt at resistance

No, Saren was not only a moron but an evil totalitarian bastard that was high on his own solution that didn't solve anything.

>But he starred in one of the worst RPG's I've ever played,

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>Robots don't have will, they cannot do anything outside their programming,
Can you prove that you can?

>I'm aware of all you have said and it doesn't change shit.
Then why did your posts say things that are totally wrong?

>Souls that would normally be entering a vessel for them to live through are now being sucked up to power up a machine that some ancient civilization programmed to dictate the faith of men.
The machine doesn't consume them. It transmits them. It's just an artificial version of something that can already happen through chance.

The way the Reapers are portrayed in ME1 and with the knowledge he had, there was really no other solution but kowtow and hope they didn't arbitrarily crush you underfoot. He didn't know the writers would go full retard later and provide 5 or 6 deus ex machinas and retcons in a row to make them a surmountable threat for Mary Sue Shepard.

>People can die on accidents if they're unlucky so it's perfectly fine for me to go around killing them for my own personal gain

Dude, she shat herself.

>Kreia LITERALLY did nothing wrong, though.
She admits she shouldn't have helped the Exile reconnect to the Force in the end.

I don't remember that.

he just wanted to have a heart

>he doesn't know death is an illusion

>Saren was doing the only logical thing in that scenario. He really did do nothing wrong. A shame Bioware are shitty writers.
That makes no sense. If you're convinced Saren did the right thing, then doesn't that mean the writers did a good job?

>Neither can the gods in Pillars of Eternity
The fact that she was cucked out of her "thrones" and other "gods" were okay with it already proves you're wrong.

>I don't remember that.
It's before the bossfight I think. She says that she can now see it was a mistake to get him to hear the Force again. That there is no truth to be found there, etc.

ME1 was alright but Vigil is kind of a deus ex machina. The later games go full retard with the reapers though, yes.

What do you mean? The gods aren't a single identity. Each one has their own identity. This is completely irrelevant to the fact that they act as they were programmed.

>The machine doesn't consume them.
The machine denies them life, you fucking mongoloid. If you don't think that's wrong, you need to blunt that edge a bit, otherwise you might cut off your dick when jerking off to horse porn.

Maybe it depends on your karma or some other actions.

>tfw rebelling against programming is part of Magran and Skaen's programing

Life is of lesser value in a system of objective reincarnation. I'd rather be part of a god than just evaporate into entropy.

That's right, they have identities, not programming. They have certain personalities and predisposition towards doing some things, but it doesn't mean they don't have free will, since they can act against their system of beliefs from time to time. H

Had they been programmed and lacked free will, they would have reinstated Woedica back where she "belongs" according to the programming, but they didn't, which shows that they have free will.

>What do you mean? The gods aren't a single identity. Each one has their own identity.
And Woedica's appointed identity was as the head of the pantheon and symbol of rulership. She was usurped and weakened by the other Gods, counter to the Engwithans' original plans. Thaos is seeking to rectify that. Read between the lines, christ.

Bullshit, he was a narcissistic moron who decided he was the one who had the answer and that his answer was the only right one.

What the fuck does Saren actually know? Not a god damn thing, he knows but a fraction of all the relevant information even in ME1 and immediately decides all on his own to sabotage everyone else.

Saren is a classic example of a totalitarian narcissist, great villain material but utterly flawed and downright broken as a sentient being.

>Life is of lesser value in a system of objective reincarnation.
Ow, the edge. Reincarnation has no value to an individual, when you lose your identity. It's the equivalent of death for all intents and purposes and even awakening brings back only your memories, not your past personality.

Hold on a second. You're making dumb assumptions here.

Show me proof that:
1) The gods were all made by the exact same group of people within the Engwithians or a single govering mind
2) Said group didn't want the gods having conflicts with each other and programmed them that way with a specific hierarchy in mind
You can't, because not once was either of those things said. In fact, we can safely assume the opposite. Either there were different groups of people making the gods that fit their moral views or the gods were programmed to balance each other out.

Same to you.

Show me proof that:
1) The gods were all made by the exact same group of people within the Engwithians or a single govering mind
2) Said group didn't want the gods having conflicts with each other and programmed them that way with a specific hierarchy in mind

>Show me proof that:
>1) The gods were all made by the exact same group of people within the Engwithians or a single govering mind

How about you prove that the "gods" were programmed to have conflicts with each other and not be part of a cohesive pantheon? Unless you can prove that, Woedica's cuckening is proof of "gods" exercising free will.

No it isn't. Neither of us can prove our point so I suppose they're just two different theories.

I like the series as a whole though, even if some individual games were bad. Meme all you want, but it's one of the best vidya trilogies I've ever played through. Even if ME3 had an awful ending, I still got that deep empty feeling after finishing the series knowing that was the end of it.

>Biodrone unable to even conceive of a universe where someone knows more than you and disagrees with the self insert
shocking

Reminder that Shepard LITERALLY challenges him on the basis of "I had a bad dream ;_;". And it works because the writers wanted it to.

Yeah but his is supported by in-game stuff where as yours is just misunderstood exposition repeated at face value. Only autistics think interpretations and opinions are the same thing.

>Yeah but his is supported by in-game stuff
Except it isn't. We know gods were programmed a long time ago by Engwithians. Thaos tells one side of the story but all other gods disagree with him. This isn't necessarily one or another being faulty, it makes complete sense for them to be different gods with different conflicting opinions

>You can't, because not once was either of those things said. In fact, we can safely assume the opposite.
subtext, how does it work

This is why games will never be art, folks. They have to cater to mouthbreathers like this dude.

>Meme all you want, but it's one of the best vidya trilogies I've ever played through.
That's awful. But video game trilogies in general tend to not hold up, so I guess it speaks more to the industry's standards than to your own tastes.

>Even if ME3 had an awful ending, I still got that deep empty feeling after finishing the series knowing that was the end of it.
ME3 IS an awful ending. If you think the red-blue-green was anything but the sweet corn kernel at the top of a shit sundae you're a retard.

Sorry I replied to the wrong guy. That was directed at the other guy.

>Random strawman that has nothing to do with the post it replies to
Wow, on Sup Forums? Color me shocked!

What the fuck does Shepard have to do with anything here? Why the fuck even bring him up you dumb faggot. This is about Saran, as an individual, having absolutely no means to determine the correct answer all by himself, yet he acts as though he could and did, without any kind of verification, discussion or discourse in general, he just decides that what might as well be complete fabrications are totally true and betrays everyone as a result.

>This is about Saran,
A great way to keep your foods fresh tasting. But what does that have to do with Saren Arterius, secret misunderstood hero of Mass Effect?

>This is about Saran, as an individual, having absolutely no means to determine the correct answer all by himself, yet he acts as though he could and did, without any kind of verification, discussion or discourse in general, he just decides that what might as well be complete fabrications are totally true and betrays everyone as a result.
>waaah he didn't consult my Mary Sue self insert first
>baaaw he should just let me red/blue the Reapers away

>Let me bring up Shepard again even though he's not relevant here at all and was never brought up by anyone but me

Stop talking about pancakes you fucking ingrate. You're the only one here talking about pancakes.

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>almost destroys every single elf ever and kills the pantheon trying to become a not-lich immortal even more powerful than a baelnorn

>cries like a little bitch and causes havoc strife and death wherever e goes after being un-elf'd and exiled trying to find some other way of stealing greater-than-immortal power

sure. nothing wrong there.

>blew up a refinery because fuck you
>blames it on Anderson, who would have been a better spectre than shepard
You gotta read the books. Sarens a dick

that's because in Drew karpashyn's (sp?) original story, the real big bad was whatever the fuck was making the suns die, and the dark matter stuff. the 'reapers' weren't supposed to be 'The Big Bad'. drew set up a 'nice job breaking it, hero' storyline where saren was right, just went about things in the most renegade matter possible.

>but then they dumped him in favour of LOL RED BLUE GREEN ENDINGS

>we'z gunna save you from the inevitable machine revolution that'll kill you all by harvesting you into becoming hideous mindless cyborg death ships that will destroy all of civilisation everywhere anyway

Casey fucking Hudson

and
>LOL GAY PPL! SQUEEEEE!!!!
Hamburger Hepler

Sequel with Durance killing Woedica and Magran when?

he did pretty much everything wrong

>villians

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He just wanted to kill whores

>I'd rather be part of a god
That's because you are a depressed moron.

>dude the fuck is wrong with you? this shit is really dangerous you power hungry twat. man just fuck off we don't want you here anymore.
>WOOOOOOOOW YOU JUST KICK ME OUT FOR BEING POWER HUNGRY? FOR BEING DANGEROUS? HOW DARE YOU! I WILL HARVEST EVEN MORE POWER AND ERADICATE YOUR ENTIRE RACE FOR THIS

Yep, while his voice acting was amazing, the actual motivations were so disappointing.

Saren would still have been wrong about what he did and why he did it, but he would have been right in that his actions were justified in the bigger picture, his character still has no way to know or confirm this.

Saren is like someone who starts blowing up factories because he saw a documentary on global warming, while the issue he pursues might be legitimate he's simply not equipped to deal with it and his means are deplorable.

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>A great way to keep your foods fresh tasting. But what does that have to do with Saren Arterius, secret misunderstood hero of Mass Effect?
A+

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>wants to annihilate the whole human race as a petty payback revenge stunt

You people are picking the most meme responses.

>The machine denies them life
It doesn't. It makes them part of a different form of life. It is constantly emphasized in the game again and again that souls are something abstract that you shouldn't associate with a single person. Sometimes souls merge, sometimes they split apart, they come back as humans, or animals, or plants or whatnot. The soul of someone might come back as three different entities at the same time, with parts of it already lost forever. What Thaos did was merging a larger number of these souls together, and the only thing unusual about it was that it was controlled. He didn't deny shit to them. The Adra Dragon feeding on the souls was actually a worse crime than what Thaos did.

Souls are not important. The important part is how his actions affected the lives of those who were already alive.

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>pimps me to a dude every fucking time
Fuck Grigori. Fucking gay ass lizard.

>not wanting to be turned into an immortal dream wizard after lizard wizard destroys the filthy normie world and gives everyone magic

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Reminder that Kreia did literally nothing wrong.

You will never have a mother figure who would lose a limb for you, and would kill entire galaxy for you. ;_;

I wonder what Brianna would have to say about that...

and he fucking got away with it too

This dude was a fucking homo. Felt good to tear his soul apart.