Hold on

Hold on.

So in the end of MGSV it's revealed that Zero isn't such a cunt to Snake, and that his creation kind of got out of control. Why is it at the end of MGS4 they make him out like the ultimate bad guy purely surviving on hate?

Retcons
Or as Kojima would say "No one knew his true motives, he was a victim of his own handiwork very deep didju rike it even though this makes no sense because big boss went along with his stupid venom boss plan so he should know his motives"

Because that wasn't zero.

Just ignore the end of MGS 4 with Zero, it's full on retarded.

>People rag on MGS4 for being an interactive movie
>Kojima makes MGSV which is 90% gameplay
>Hurr what the fuck where is the story!!!!

It's almost like you think there's a coherent narrative.

There is a thing called a 'middle ground', friend.

I suspect that Kojima didn't have the heart to make Zero or Big Boss real villians, hence the MGS4 epilogue and MGSV not being about BB transitioning into the monster that Solid takes out like all the trailers implied. He edned up liking Big Boss too much.

>middle ground

There's that buzzword again

>buzzword

There's that buzzword again

Stfu up nigger, I'm not even baiting.S eriously why would you even post this? How about consider killing yourself? Not a suggestion, you should actually do it. Go away no one likes you

only Sup Forums could turn the word buzzword into a buzzword

Have sex

Stop starting shit in actual vidya thread and stop being so salty. No one likes that shit either

There is no excusing this, Kojima doesn't remember his own story. Zero and Big Boss hated each other.
>There was nothing left of The Boss's noble will in their struggle. All that remained was hatred, a passion to destroy one another.
>Did Zero really hate me? I guess it's too late to ask him now.
Well considering he rescued you from the helicopter crash and created a fake Big Boss to draw your enemies off of you, I think it's safe to assume you were best buds with him you fucking moron. Not to mention Zero was the one who recovered Big Boss's body for the nanomachine coma, BUT WAIT, Zero was in HIS coma before the events of Metal Gear 1 thanks to Phantom Pain and the retarded parasite storyline.

Phantom Pain has rendered the timeline an incomprehensible clusterfuck. Don't get me wrong, it was kind've a clusterfuck already, but you could still follow the story, everything still made sense as convoluted as it may of been. But now, nothing makes sense.

So what happened to Sallypuss? Why doesn't Liquid have it in MGS1?

Why did Hal build a shittier version of it?

>shittier version
Hal built a working version
His dad built a version powered by one kid with an overactive imagination

Shitty writing. Having said that it is fun to think about Eli and Mantis going on an awesome globetrotting roadtrip in the thing and eventually trashing it.

But why couldn't mantis just control it again like he did when he was a kid?

He became mildly retarded and had to resort to parlor tricks instead of any real power or as Kojima put it "A child's mind is stronger than an adult's!"

What in MGS4 made him sound like he survived purely on hate? He was a crippled brain dead old man, it was pretty clear he himself was harmless and his AI system had gone rogue.

Before he set up the AIs he was made out to be a psychotic ass hole. He set up the AIs after he got Snake to kill Big Boss.

>Big Boss: "Everything has its beginning. But doesn't start at "one." It starts long before that, in chaos. The world is born... from zero. The moment zero becomes one is the moment the world springs to life. One becomes two, two becomes ten, ten becomes 100. Taking it all back to one solves nothing. So long as Zero remains, one... will eventually grow to 100 again. And so our goal was to erase Zero."

Makes me laugh everytime.

>2015
>Super excited about MGSV:TPP
>"Man, i can't wait to see Zero, Gray Fox and maybe the young Foxhound!"
>Tpp is the worst game i've ever played
WEW LAD

[Bunch of bullshit about numbers]... and THAT'S why we wanted to kill a dying old man! Ocelot and I both knew that Zero was no longer in control of anything but FUCK IT, THE NUMBERS CHECK OUT

>there's no such thing as striking a balance

MGS3 is perhaps the closes we'll get to a great ratio for story/cutscenes and gamplay.

Venom knew the truth, Big Boss never learned what Venom knew.

Why would you think Grey Fox was going to be in it? None of the promotional stuff would lead someone to believe that if they weren't already Game Theorist-level retarded.

Big Boss hated Zero. Zero never hated him.

BB's just too blinded with hatred to realise this if he thinks that Zero every hated him.

Snake's sarcastic as fuck "so what about you? You going back to zero too?" Gave me a hearty chuckle.

So Snake is super dead by the time Revengeance happens, about 4 years after MGS4, right?

.

Why would BB hate Zero is he saved his life from the helicopter crash and created the fake Big Boss to take the heat off him?
>There was nothing left of the Boss's noble will in their struggle. All that remained was hatred, a passion to destroy one another.
Stop making up your own head canon faggot.

>Big Boss + Friends get The Philosopher's Legacy
>???
>They have AIs that control the world economy and politics

That's kind of a big step to skip out. The Philosopher's Legacy is just a lot of money. If Volgin had it he'd just use it to fund his army. He couldn't control the world like 6 nobodies did. How did that happen?

I never met a Kojimafag before

If you didn't notice the timeline, MGSV happens a along time before MGS4 giving zero and the patriots a a lot of time to do some really evil shit.

Hope that helps, fellow gamer!

They never hated each other. They were friends who got some beef because of LET.

Big Boss acknowledges in the tapes that the Zero he knew isn't a bad person who does cruel things.

Not that guy, but timeliness fitted.

At the time, we all right it'd fit into the existing set of events and not have done completely new shit put in.

Also Kojima made certain poses and images that kinda made a throwback to gray fox. It made logistics answer considering that Gray Fox is found by BB after Mgs3 and PW, but before the other stuff.

Personally I didn't think he was going to be in there. I was with the "we play as the medic" crowd.

Stop being a retard.

Look at the end of Mgs3. Hated him from thereon. Apmost in an irrational way.

Did you even play that?

Zero just wanted BB to be his best mate and then turn him into a legend.

You're completely right. But I'd say BB definitely had something that clouded his judgement.

Hate is a strong word.

>90%
How about that gook faggot tried to make it 50/50? 40/6 you know, something in between.

Fucking fanboys say the most retarded things.

*40/60

What?
>under zero's command ocelot steals the philosopher's legacy
>initial membership consists of ocelot, eva, big boss, signit, paramedic and zero as their leader
>big boss is basically used as a mascot as he was the closest to the boss
>zero uses the legacy to bribe political figures and reach a high status
>big boss resents playing the puppet when the legends behind him get out of hand
>zero, fearing big boss will leave the organisation secretly embarks on les enfants terribles so he'll have the clones to perpetuate their organisation's icon
>big boss finds out about this and splits away from the organisation, creates MSF
>throughout this zero is said to be consumed by his own lust for power and turns into a psychotic ass hole
>big boss tries to use outer heaven and zanzibarland to kill zero, but zero uses solid snake to kill big boss
>upset over how big boss betrayed them to begin with, zero is unable to believe in human life and is unwilling to trust his organisation in the hands of the next generation
>so he sets up the AIs to run the organisation for him
Zero was always a prick. The AIs themselves evolved and got out of hand, but Zero was never a good guy.

The phantom pain is shit because it has 0 fanservice
Prove me wrong

If he hated him why would he join the Patriots to begin with? Dumb faggot.

He hates America or rather "the system" for deceiving him. Zero had no choice but to make sure that Operation Snake Eater would be a success after the failure that was the Virtuous Mission. Otherwise it'd have been execution for both of them.

Slightly off point, but I've heard that when you rescue Kaz, you can press a button that makes snake say "Kept you waiting huh?"

Is this true? haven't had the chance to try it, but reminds me of the secret R1 moments in mgs3

this kinda makes sense

>when someone who has no idea of the metal gear lore tries to talk about it
Just shut your fucking mouths. This doesn't make a lick of sense. How would Big Boss not know about this?

>we still don't know what happened to Clothed Snake, Antidote Snake, Gas Snake or Liquidus Snake

Kojima is a talentless hack.

because it was Venom that found the cassettes explaining everything

Im playing mgs V for the first time im up to mission 31 I don't care about spoilers but I need to know. Is the fire dude a dead/ghost of volgan from mgs3? And if it is why is he a puppet of mantis(?)

>when a dumbass criticises every comment, provides no counter-arguements, and demands people to essentially "prove it!" while berating them.

Please stop.
Or atleast learn how to converse and debate with others instead of throwing your hands up like a chubby little ass-ravaged, frothing at the mouth, 14 year old.

So you're saying Big Boss never once questioned why the fuck is there is a body double of me?

Since you're too brain dead to think for yourself.

Ocelot knew about the body double ruse. Big Boss is the one and only person Ocelot would never betray. Why the fuck would Big Boss never ever once ask why the fuck there was a doppelganger of himself in the hospital?

>So you're saying Big Boss never once questioned why the fuck is there is a body double of me?

ok never mind, I don't know what I'm talking about. The story is so fucking convoluted, I forget things

Big Boss is a total cunt in MGSV though.

And it's not like he isn't still a cunt in the first two games. It's not like they've been retconned.

as shit as mgs4 may of been, it had its moments

>"This is good, isn't it?"

honestly some of the greatest voice acting done in a video game, ever.

The specifics with Zero and Big Boss don't really match up anymore. MGSV's story is pretty benign otherwise, but it's interesting how much it fucks up despite being mostly an irrelevant sidestory. It's a weird game.

The post-credits conversation between Miller and Ocelot for example doesn't make any fucking sense at all. It's just milked drama that doesn't at all align with what we know happens later.

Because the story was completely wrapped up at the end of 3 and no more stories about these characters needed to be told but it made too much money to not make sequels and Hideous Kojimbo: Hack Extraordinaire pulled the same dumbass "zero was on the other side all along" twist out of his ass twice because a cuhrazy twist was expected

Because it was a no-brainer. There was literally no way Grey Fox was not going to be in it, back when the game was about actual big boss. But turns out its fuckin' venom snake not big boss.

The issue with MGSV is that there is no structure whatsoever to the game. It's a gigantic tech demo where nothing of note happens.

It's not even really finished.

I enjoyed 4

Snake blowing his brains out at the end of 4 will always be my canon.

I think that would've been a pretty shitty ending.

It is Volgin and something about how his rage allowed him to keep living. Look forward to there being no proper resolution to that storyline!

>the meme brigade of Chapter 3 arrived at this thread

MGR is 4 years after MGS4 but let's be honest. MGS is full of asspulls so if Konami make MGS6 I wouldn't be surprised if resurrect Snake.

>if Konami make MGS6 I wouldn't be surprised if resurrect Snake.
When Konami make mgs6 it is going to be a dumb cash in without Kojima. The story will be whatever they think will sell.

In universe explanation is that the developed myelin sheaths in adults inhibits psychic power

I hate that everyone are saying "MGSV salvaged Zero by revealing that he wasn't really a villain, just a misguided person who had his own vision of Boss legacy and never really hated Big Boss, as opposed to MGS4", despite the fact that MGS4 says the exact same things in it's ending. You have even BB questioning that Zero really hated him for all this years, but for some reason even after having everything explained via tons of exposition, for some reason MGS fans were unable to get that until Kojima in another game directly confimed what was strongly implied by MGS4.

cyborg snake (a la raiden) vs zombie big boss for metal gear solid 6

It's not the problem with this game, the problem is how rushed it feels, especially past chapter 1. You start redoing old missions with a couple of new ones (like quarantine facility massacre), then you get to redo prologue with some new cut-scenes, then it's suddenly over. Chapter 1 could be better paced but is overall at least feels like something finished, but it went downhill from there pretty fast. Given that I'm a huge fanboy I still liked the game and I liked the whole twist even though it was spoiled for me, it felt like organic continuation and ending of mgs4 themes (the whole deal with "liquid's" ruse, you know what I mean), but it was done pretty half-assed - couple of plot important missions without any connections whatsoever, they just come at you after you did enough grinding.

>>zero uses the legacy to bribe political figures and reach a high status

That's the only sentence that deals with the central issue of how they gained COMPLETE control of the USA's politics and economy.

The Koch brothers and other billionaires are powerful but they don't control the governemnt to the degree that the Patriots did. In 2 the President of the USA himself, who is actually a rather minor and unimportant character, tells you how the entire elections are rigged and the Patriots actually choose the President.

That goes way beyond buying off a few people.

Instead of dealing with what should be the central conflict of the game (The Patriots, Zero), through the game itself, he threw it in the end as a 45 minute epilogue.

Ocelot should have been a minor figure with no Liquid Ocelot nonsense. It should have been a direct war on the Patriots.

That's how all games of this series usually work. You're always being manipulated by someone, and you feel like you're doing something important, killing important people and blowing metal gears up, but the main stuff is always happening off-screen, behind the curtains, and only partially explained through various dialogues, logs and stuff like that.

Sure the Legacy is supposed to beyond trillions. We aint talking about some small time billionaires no one gives a fuck about like the Rothschilds, the Legacy was supposed to be an impossible amount of money.

Except now Zero is in a coma from the 70s on so he never ordered Snake to infiltrate Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land, it was the Patriot AI in control of FOXHOUND.

It is literally said Zero himself retrieved Big Boss's body for the coma. A big part of their relationship is that after having Snake kill Big Boss, Zero feels regret for straying away from the Boss's vision and focusing on trying to kill what was a former friend, that's why he puts Big Boss into the nanomachine coma, because he regrets what became of their relationship, THEN he sets up the AIs because after Big Boss's betrayal he's not willing to trust the Patriots in the hands of the next generation.

That is the story of the Patriots, Zero and Big Boss, your head canon means jack shit. Phantom Pain is a shit stain on Metal Gear's timeline, nothing makes sense anymore.

No man, it was literally retconned into Zero dindu nuffin he a good boy hands up don't don't parasite. Him have remorse is infinitely better, but this is now Kojima's official way it happened.

My post is the story as it was established in MGS4. I know everyone shits on MGS4 for establishing the MGS3 comedy relief support team as the Patriots, but I liked the idea behind Zero and Big Boss's relationship and was under the impression Phantom Pain would finally show us this relationship evolve in the flesh.

But then we got this piece of shit. What makes TPP more canon than what was established in MGS4? MGS4 came first so I would take with more worth. TPP is just a clusterfuck of nonsense. This series is just a fucking mess.

>Zero dindu nuffin
Even in MGSV he's depicted as a power hungry loon. He mentions his plans for total information control to Skull Face.

It's good because it has barely any fanservice, grow up.

MGSV has more than enough fanservice bullshit with Zombie Volgin and pre-teen Liquid and Mantis anyway.

The LEgacy was only 100 billion dollars. Presumably in 1964 money.

>Zombie Volgin

He's not even a Zombie. He's some kind of fire demon fuckthing, and the game does have actual Zombies.

Never would I have thought to see any of those in MGS.

>user doesn't understand inflation: the post

You could say MG1 and 2 came before any other game, so Big Boss is still a Japanese American who fought in WWII.

someone should remake that picture with raven, sinperwolf, mantis and liquid.

For anyone wanting to know, 100 billion back in '64 was worth over 800 billion today.

It was assembled back in World War II. It's worth 1.3 Trillion today.

I'm just thankful that the Boss wanking was toned down in V.

Because Big Boss didn't know about his change of heart you fucking idiot.

There was absolutely no fucking reason to bring back the mammal pod although I enjoyed Huey's story.