When people say modern games are shit, is it rosy retrospection? Or are they legitimately worse than older videogames?

When people say modern games are shit, is it rosy retrospection? Or are they legitimately worse than older videogames?

People say this about music, tv and movies, and it just is not true. Are videogames the one exception?

It's like saying a Domino's pizza, is and a pizzeria run by an old Italian man are the same.

Now, is Domino's worse? Only sometimes! It depends on the perspective.

Don't worry buddy, we'll spring you out of Nintendo's basement someday.

OP here, I have no opinion on the subject and didn't imply that I did, I love old games and new games. I don't know where you got this assumption from.

But Nintendo games are why old games are better

When people say this, they are mostly saying it in reference to what the majority of the mainstream consumes. The problem with mainstream video games is the same one that plagues every other form of mainstream media: once it begins to spread, the creators of content begin to make sure that their content will be consumed by the greatest amount of people, and this means watering it down so that everyone can enjoy it. There are exceptions, but for the most part the largest releases are easier than they have been in the past and have many more cinematic sequences in them than in the past, if you include QTEs in with cutscenes. Now, they're not necessarily or inherently terrible because of that, but if you grew up in the 80s or 90s where the majority of games didn't hold your hand or straight up crushed your balls with difficulty and you had to overcome that, then you would likely say that modern games are shit because they are easier and have more movie-like and story elements in them.

I actually like a lot of modern games, but I did grow up in the 90s and I do find all the handholding things in games like big flashing ever present objective markers and things cluttering the hud irritating, but I can see why that wouldn't matter to some people.

MGSV is an inherently better game when you shut off marking/reflex mode/the mini map/objectives, suck it.

It would be hard to see a game like System Shock 2 be made in modern vidya

I pray shock 3 isn't shit

well look what happened to thief. Hate to disappoint

Yeah but the thing is. Let's take Sup Forums for example, they shit on AAA games for being casual and appealing to the masses, and then shit on indie games for being too "try hard" or "pretentious"

I feel like that's mostly shitposting. Yeah, a lot of indie games in the spotlight are short as fuck and pretentious, but there's a lot of good, challenging games there too.

Anyways, i'm looking for games as fun, rewarding and challenging as Thief, Original splinter cells, demons souls and original hitman games.

Any suggestions? New or old.

Played the Metro series?

I didn't realize they were on that level, alright i'll check them out. (also I should have thrown baldurs gate 1 and 2 into that list, i love those damn games)

avoid 2033 redux like that plague, Last light redux is essentially the same as original just with DLC bundled

I haven't played too many new games this year. Axiom Verge is a great indie game if you loved Super Metroid, but it wasn't all that difficult. Dragon's Dogma is worth a look on PC and can be challenging if you don't look up the super overpowered builds and avoid certain vocations, but it's a great game regardless, even if it's a bit short. Wings of Vi is probably the only real super hard game I've played, but it's a platformer and it's almost on I Wanna Be The Guy's level of difficulty, although it's less cheap and more trial and error.

it definitely is true with movies. the 1960s through the 70s was the best era for cinema by a longshot.

OP that's a really old picture of me. Where did you find it?

Where's our new music, fucker?

>People say this about music, tv and movies, and it just is not true.
I found your problem, OP.

You're retarded

>discounting the based 80s

It depends.
However, when Sup Forums says it it's ENTIRELY rosy restrospection.

Pre-20th century music is objectively better though.

The fundamental problem with this kind of nostalgia goggles is that it all compares actual good stuff in the past with mainstream stuff today.

There's always good stuff being made, you just need to look at indie/niche productions instead of major commercial stuff intended for mass appeal.

Post more of these, I love them.

>Mozart can't release new music because he's too busy pretending to be dead

>le wrong generashun
XDDDD


>>reddit

Where can I get more of these?

>People say this about music, tv and movies, and it just is not true.
No one under the age of 20 will make this claim.

You think My Chemical Romance or Justin Beiber will be listened to in 350 years? Because your pic still is.

>There's always good stuff being made, you just need to look at indie/niche productions instead of major commercial stuff intended for mass appeal.
You didn't need to look at indieshit 15-20 years ago. Often the best games had the highest budgets.

>all classical music is Mozart-tier

When will this meme die?
99.9% of classical music was forgotten within 30 years because it was fucking shit

the reason people think old music was the best is that the only surviving old music is the very best of the best

use your fucking brain, holy shit

...

Depends on how you define worse but they are definitely designed for the laziest, dumbest fucks around nowadays which wasn't always the case. Even "difficult" indie games are poisoned by this need to cater to casuals. That's why so many devs think things like game overs, lives systems and a lack of checkpoints are bad design.

all i'm saying is
Music: Mozart is great, and Ween is great
Tv: Columbo is great, and Burn notice is great
Movies: Evil dead is great, Deadpool is great

No matter what age it is, people will come out with great things. But people seem to think otherwise with videogames, and i'm honestly on the fence. I have no clue, I havent played a modern game i've enjoyed but could just be i'm tired of videogames.

this gentleman is correct

nowadays AAA game devs pander to the flavour of the week, whether is getting to shoot Trump in Mafia III, fighting alongside black germans in BF1, or pretending BLM are cyborgs in Deus Ex

As the seasons change and society picks up new hot-button topics, these will fall by the wayside. games that avoid getting bogged down in the politics of the day should be best at standing the test of time

So social commentary is killing vidya

Wow. Mozart and Deadpool. This guy knows some cool stuff.

>whether is getting to shoot Trump in Mafia III
Don't forget Watch Dogs 2.

I don't get why you're being so hostile.

Not saying all classical music is mozart tier, don't try to twist my argument

What shit produced today do you believe will be listened to by the irradiated mutant spawn that crawls out of the sewers in 2350?

Nostalgia almost always filters out the shit. The 60s were still a time where something like 'Sugar, Sugar' could literally be Number 1 on the charts. I know it's not vidya, but I feel like Pleasantville makes a good case about the power of nostalgia.
That being said, modern vidya has a problem, especially to do with development and marketing costs. Older games could afford to go for a smaller audience and not be obligated to go for mass appeal. But now, middle-tier studios are basically dead and everything is either an indie title or a AAA monster, with very little falling in between. Japan is keeping some of the smaller projects alive, but who knows how long that will last for.

ween and primus

Not really, but relying on it can be fatal.
Unless you're developing MGS2 where you're ten years ahead of your time and your game also gets a HD version just around the time the topics you already went over in the game have suddenly become very relevant.

I believe so, yes; it's being used to carry a message, as a means to an end, rather than an end in itself. With vidya, it should be about the journey, the experience, the enjoyment you get out of it, not the politics shoehorned into it

The aa industry is dead. There's just Indie stuff made by amateurs and AAA blockbusters with no soul

Hopefully quite a while. Middleware is the only thing keeping the Vita alive in Japan, so it MUST be selling.

Legitimately worse. The mainstream won't give a fuck what you do unless you have good technology, and good technology requires resources and manpower to a degree that doesn't leave room for creativity and ingenuity.

You'd think the indie scene is the answer but it's been 90% hijacked by hipsters.

The only good games made today come from basement dwelling third-worlders and resemble what we were getting from the mainstream a decade ago at best.

>falling for le 80s meme
shitty meme era destroyed movies forever. It's the 'JUST TURN YOUR BRAIN OFF BRO' of decades for Hollywood.

>all that shit taste
Stop trying to talk about artistic merit because you don't know what it is.

Read the 'Norton Anthology on Criticism.'

>The only good games made today come from basement dwelling third-worlders and resemble what we were getting from the mainstream a decade ago at best.

I'd agree with this. I'm currently playing Underrail and loving the shit out of it. Feels like a true spiritual successor to the Baldur's Gate and Fallout games

The indie scene in video games is pretty shit while at least with music there's a lot of really good stuff coming out by people not on a major label. And even some stuff from people on somewhat major labels depending on your definition of it.

The AAA industry is basically entirely focused tested garbage and the indie scene usually doesn't make even decent stuff either because, while a group of amateurs can get together and make something good, it's less likely to happen than in music just because of how the development of games works. There are still some AA game developers but there are a lot less than there used to be.

It's not just Mozart that made the classical period great. Just because you haven't heard of all the other composers born within that short timeframe doesn't mean they're not remembered. And just because they weren't as fucking amazing as Mozart doesn't mean they weren't great composers, composing music far exceeding any modern popular music by any objective technical analysis.

The simplest way to put it is that the goals of music changed, and being able to keep the attentive interest of highly critical and experienced listeners stopped being one of the main priorities. Since the fast food metaphor has been overdone into meaninglessness by now, let's compare it to video games. Modern music is like mobile games. They don't try to engage you on any deeper level at all, they just entertain you a little bit without demanding too much out of you, and then let you go back to your life and forget about them, while still hooking you enough to make you feel a pull to go back.

there are popular trends in the industry for each deccade, dictated by the producers and, either adopted or rejected by the consumers.

For example, the lives system was the longest time popular thing (cuz arcades designed games were like that to milk the coins out of people)
Nevertheless, It was part of the experience for home console users of several generations - they were okay with it, cuz generally they didn't know any better.

Now, the new generation is mostly okay with DLC map-packs as they aren't that price-gouging and if they got into gaming, when DLC was mainstream.

BUT! If you have a point of comparison (say, an oldfag, who remembers when games were full-priced experience, and that's it), this is where oldfags start outraging here and there, about how nonsense this or that in modern games developlent cycle.

What's wrong with 2033 redux?

It's amazing seeing people talk about "modern music" as if it's all top 40 music. I mean sure, classical music is more technically interesting than lets say 98% (or 100% if you want, I just want to leave some space there) of "modern music" regardless of genre but lumping everything from Taylor Swift to Nick Cave to Merzbow to whatever else under the label "modern music" is pretty stupid and really just destroys any credibility your arguments may have.

they ruined the lighting, making a lot of things too bright, messed with a lot of subtle atmosphere things in general, ruined stealth making it simpler and easier, new Artyom voice and my personal pet peeve is how they switched his shitty analog watch for the digital one he gets in LL

Except I'm aware that modern music is a huge fucking spectrum of quality. Doesn't change that on a technical level, it's still inferior to inferior to art music. But yes, I conveniently leave contemporary art music out of modern, because the goal of contemporary art music is much more in line with the goal of classical music than it is with the stuff that most people actually spend most of their time listening to these days.

The obvious observation that comes to mind is that while the output of those mediums isn't worse than before, it also isn't better. The illusion of 'progress' comes from technology, but the level of technology doesn't dictate quality. Artists excel in the context of the tools they're given. Many antique sculptures are much more impressive than CGI models made today. It just proves that nothing really changes.

A side note: Mozart was sort of the mainstream celebrity artist of his time, but his music is structurally much much more advanced and nuanced than what is considered good mainstream music today.

The biggest issue is that Underrail took Styg 8 years to make. Without medium-sized studios to fill the gap between basement production and AAA, games with a lot of content that cater to a more hardcore niche are rare as fuck.

Fuck off with your 'everything is objectively the same forever le bad stuff is forgotten' meme.

Saying that the state of video games now is the same now as it was twenty years ago is stupid and you know it.

So what exactly keeps medium-sized studios from thriving? Did they all just get lured by the promise of $$$ and sold themselves off to AAA publishers?

deus ex games, heard invisible wars was bad but the rest should be solid. i only played human revolution but it was a great game

Probably largely that. Also without a big base of support one bad release can probably just about kill you.

GSC Game World was killed by their evil boss for a particular example though. There's probably a whole load of problems.

You're being distracted by marketing. Media visibility is hogged by maybe a dozen big franchises at a time and that gives the impression they're all there is to video games. Sure, like the other user said, medium sized studios are not doing well, but that's a statement on production values, not quality of development.

Do you really think it's possible to post on Sup Forums and only be aware of the games that are big enough to get ads on the side of buses?

Nah, I constantly seek out indies that appeal to me and his statement's still very true. The format has changed and entire genres/game styles died out. Look at arcade game genres which are either dead like 2D beat em ups or on life support thanks to some japanese devs.

Being actively conscious of versus being generally aware.

???

I just think video games are shit.

All a matter of taste