He's bad because you were supposed to light the beacon but you didn't

>he's bad because you were supposed to light the beacon but you didn't
what the fuck was bioware thinking with this one?

He sees the lit beacon and gives the order to his troops to ignore it

try playing the game bub

You do light the beacon, he leaves and threatens the entirety of ferelden because he wants glory

But you did, in fact, light the beacon.

Maybe a little later than planned, but that obviously didn't matter since he waited until it was lit to pull out anyways.

If the situation was hopeless, he would have left as soon as that became obvious, instead of waiting for confirmation that you made it to the top.

Also he's bad because he hired Rendon fucking Howe to murder your entire family.

cause you took 4 hours to do the task. you don't even respond to a "signal" that Alistair "just knows" but won't explain to you

You're an idiot

sorry
>because you were supposed to light the beacon ON TIME but you didn't
here's a head scratcher: if your entire job was to light the beacon, then what the fuck were you doing in the camp when the battle started?

He still waited around for the beacon to be lit before leaving

>intentionally destroy the largest standing army of your country when facing war because your precious little daughter deserves a better husband

Any intention to paint him as some kind of strategic genius after that was retarded. Then again DA:O's writing is pretty bad overall.

>there are people who didn't execute him

He likes maps.

>what the fuck were you doing in the camp when the battle started

Awaiting confirmation that you need to light the beacon.

That's kind of how beacons work, mate. You get notice to light it, so then you must physically relocate to wherever the wood pile is to set it on fire. You can't just guess or estimate, you'll fuck everything up.

Now if the Fereldans were smart they would have set up two beacons - the guys on the ground light one, and that lets the guys on the tower light the other.

While I do agree, The reason why he ditched is because he still hates the old king for cucking him and he was paranoid as fuck that Orlais was going to attack. I don't think he really gave a shit about his daughter, I mean she was a bitch.

>Also he's bad because he hired Rendon fucking Howe to murder your entire family.

One of the writers on the game said that Loghain had no idea Howe did that.

Well he sure as fuck didn't care for his country.
Or if he did, he was just dumb as a rock.

But you don't get notice of it either way. You just suddenly wake up out of the stupor you've apparently been in for the last 12 hours as everyone else has prepared and gotten into position and stupidly run toward the tower. Also, not like this aforementioned "signal" exists as more than a sorry excuse of a plot device, but the term "signal" denotes communication that takes place over large distances, sort of like a beacon, (would you refer to a spoken command as a signal? no) and so one assumes that Alistair would have been capable of receiving the "signal" from the top of the tower.

Yeah he pretty much says he concluded attacking at that point would be pointless suicide. The plan was already retarded because the king wanted his glory plan and when the light came too late he pretty much just went fuck that shit.

>Or if he did, he was just dumb as a rock.
That's what happens when you are an Old fuck with a tinfoil hat.

>But you don't get notice of it either way

Assume there was a runner coming from the front lines, telling you that the darkspawn army was in position for the ambush.

>not like this aforementioned "signal" exists as more than a sorry excuse of a plot device

This is true. There were many more reliable ways of giving Loghain's army the signal instead of a giant woodpile on top of a very tall tower. They could have just sent a guy on a fast horse.

>The beacon is 10 million hours later than expected, the ground is painted with Fereldeners' blood, and the king forced me to agree to this awful plan anyway that ended up exactly the way I thought it would
>I KNOW I will order my men to charge foolhardily just like the king that I fundamentally disagree with would have done
No, he did the smart thing and recovered his losses.

Howe did that of his own will

>My grand military strategy is to rely on a runner on the field to tell a runner in the camp to light a beacon in a tower to tell the forces on the field to attack

I never claimed they were good at their jobs. Probably why Orlais kicked their asses so bad.

Then my point stands that Loghain was right to do what he did, and the blame lies with King Cailan.

I never did. He did a lot of bad things but he still seemed pretty competent and I used the whole "the grey wardens don't give a shit" when recruiting him. Alistair leaving doesn't really matter either because I made him king every time and he's practically still there, even though he acts slightly like a dick.

>Then my point stands that Loghain was right to do what he did

No, he was wrong for a couple reasons
>he got the grey wardens killed
>when they said it was a real blight
>and they have no other way of killing the archdemon without grey wardens

He was a retard that didn't listen to the experts and got half his country burned down.

Loghain is a perfect example of the stupidity of Fereldan's.

Loghain technically didnt do anything wrong besides ignore the darkspawn threat. Even the shit with Howe and nobles can be justified by trying to keep the kingdom united. The whole kingdom was in a state of starting a civil war because the retarded king was fucking dead with no heir. Cailan should have waited for his glory battle AFTER fucking his wife pregnant and having a heir the right age.

>he's bad

They made it more up to the player really. Especially after you find the note that Cailan was going to hand over Fereldan to Oralis for some quick pussy.

>"if you let loghain live you can make use of his knowledge of warfare and strategy!"
>battle for denerim
>literally nothing changes

c'mon blizz

>he got the grey wardens killed
so what, just get more grey wardens that won't agree to stupid plans next time

>when they said it was a real blight
they always say its a real blight

>and they have no other way of killing the archdemon without grey wardens
just get more grey wardens from the north, then

In the mean time, maybe Orlais should have shared the burden. Maybe you should have helped redirect the little blight infestation to Orlais instead of letting it shit all over your homeland. But no lets blame Loghain for being the leader everyone really needed.

>Also he's bad because he hired Rendon fucking Howe to murder your entire family.

Why was killing him so unsatisfying? He doesn't beg or moan or groan or try to pay you off or anything. They should've made killing him more rewarding.

Nah, he was just badly written.
Some old wardog wouldn't let a well-equipped standing army go to waste IN FUCKING WARTIME.

>maybe Orlais should have shared the burden

Wasn't he against this because he taught that it would just allow Orlais to position their troops in Fereldan?

Doesn't make him evil. He refused to wait for the troops from Orlais, just like the King refused to wait for Redwater (or whatever Arl Eamon's place is called, I forget). Not believing in the fairytales of a 400 year old warrior cult and being a pragmatic military commander doesn't make one evil. He should have waited for Orlais, and he could have had a touch more respect for the Wardens, but he's definitely not the bad guy Bioware wants me to think he is.

but user, if you kill your enemies they win

No user, you ARE the darkspawn.

I kinda want to do another DA:O run now.

>just get more grey wardens

He banned them from entering the country, faglord. And then when one snuck in, he had him arrested.

Not to mention he tried to constantly have the Warden and Alistair killed.

Loghain was a fucking retard.

>they always say its a real blight

That's bullshit and you know it. Nobody would know better than them. If they say it's real, then for fucks sake, listen.

>In the mean time, maybe Orlais should have shared the burden

Mate, the Orlesians tried to cross the border to reinforce his army. Loghain said it would be war before he allowed Orlesian troops in Fereldan.

Do you not remember any of this shit?

He was against asking Orlais for aid. But if you were to shift the direction of the invasion away from Ferelden and towards the homeland of Orlais, that would be a great situation.

I sure as fuck don't.
Replaying DA:O and Mass Effect 2 years after their release were my two biggest vido game disappointments.

>He banned them from entering the country, faglord.

Then they should have dropped their fake allegiance and joined Loghain's army to show their true purpose in defending the king's citizens, rather than follow some foreign plot.

>That's bullshit and you know it.

How many blights and invasions have been defeated now? How many more times must everyone act like this time the threat is real? They took what a few months to finally make it to the capital?

>Mate, the Orlesians tried to cross the border to reinforce his army.

That was the wrong way to do it. They should have enlisted in Loghain's army instead. If Orlais really cared, they would have given men and supplies freely to combat a demonic invasion.

>Not believing in the fairytales of a 400 year old warrior cult

This is retarded logic. It's a setting where all kinds of crazy magic shit exists. There is absolutely no reason to assume everything about the Grey Wardens isn't true. You don't have to believe the Archdemons are corrupted Tevinter gods to believe that there's some freaky blood ritual shit that means only Grey Wardens can kill them.

And I never said he was evil - he was just wrong. He had bad ideas, and bad motivations.

Are you for real?

Did anybody actually side against this guy

The grey wardens almost killed Maric in the second novel so it's not that weird that he didn't trust them.

Only every single time.

>novel tie in shit

I fucking hate when they do this.

That one faggot who read it gets to act all smug because he knows better than the rest of us.

>He actually kept Alistar in the party

The ONLY way to make him tolerable is if you do that little side quest that stop him from being a little bitch and man up. Too bad that near end game though.

I did when I did my 'evil' run when I found out you can have a werewolves and golem army.

Only during my dickass murderer playthrough where I also sided with the templars and werewolves for no good reason

>Awesome ancient Blacksmith
>Rude bitchy Whore
jee user I don't know.

Why didn't the King just make an easier signal? Like blowing a horn himself or something.

But they hadn't done anything of note in years, and Loghain is hardly the first to cast aspersions on their self-importance. I agree that it's stupid, but nonetheless he's much more valuable to Ferelden than a figure like King Cailan, who I maintain is to blame for the all of the deaths at Ostagar. The point is that somehow, after all of the Bioware plot holes, are brushed aside, all we really have to blame Loghain with is that he's "too nationalist and that's bad".

Is DA:O that bad? I haven't played it before and kinda want to.

>But they hadn't done anything of note in years

A blight is a world ending, apocalyptic threat. Does it really matter that it doesn't show up that often? How is that relevant to whether or not you need to trust the Grey Wardens?

Depends if you like morality games where the choices are
>good boy cuck
or
>savage racist problematic murderer!

>too nationalist

That isn't even it, though. He was a common soldier who fought to greatness and couldn't stand the idea of his troops dying for false glory. He let the fool king die with his band of fools.

No it isn't, but to those who have played it before, it can seem "slow" (animations for example). Honestly I would take slow animations over bloated hp bar that take forever to drain even on the lowest difficulty.

>He actually kept Alistar in the party
Not many alternatives till you reach Oghren.
Sten dies like a mofo.

The signal wouldnt have helped. The plan was for Loghains troops to encircle the darkspawn. The problem is there was no encirclement going to happen because the darkspawn just kept coming in a line. Basically Cailan was fucked and his plan was retarded.

>all we really have to blame Loghain with is that he's "too nationalist and that's bad".

He was also selling elves into slavery.

Barely anyone in the game gives a fuck about that but it doesn't mean it wasn't wrong. Slavers are scum.

Loghain did plenty wrong, starting with being an arrogant dickhead who gambled with the lives of the people he was supposed to be protecting, just because his mom got dicked by some Orlesians when he was a kid.

>enemy ambush with 10 archers spamming scattershot

>Loghain is hardly the first to cast aspersions on their self-importance

And it nearly destroyed his country. The Grey Wardens saved it, in spite of what he did, but that doesn't excuse the fact that he made a huge blunder and nearly got everyone killed.

You don't need to be evil to be a fuck up.

Who did you sacrifice Sup Forums?

>Loghain technically didnt do anything wrong besides ignore the darkspawn threat

and also trying to fuck over the people that could stop the Darkspawn.

I executed him when I could

And conspire with blood mage to poison nobles

Is she the best RPG romance ever?

How did he fuck up? The Grey Wardens didn't defeat the blight alone. If he and his men had died at Ostagar then the Darkspawn would have won for sure. For the millionth time, the blunder at Ostagar was Cailan's, not Loghain's, and that could not be any more obvious due to the fact that all of Loghain's pessimistic predictions againts the king's battle plans came true.

I think it's worth a playthrough. The sequels like DA2 I fucking despise. Unless you are some fanatic gay shipper you might like the sequel.

Hawke it too cute to die

>ANDDDDDD, wait till you hear this, not only is he a MEAN MEAN old MAN!!! BUTTTTTT!!!!!! HES A RACIST!!!!!!! :OOOOO

Loghain haters are all dirty liberals who don't deserve a country

>blames the death of the king on the grey wardens
>sends assassins to kill you
>supports the howes despite them brutally slaughtering an entire noble family
I could go on

My choice was Stroud and I literally had no connection with him, so choice was easy

The Warden and banished the Gay Warden. Best decision to make. Fuck them. They're supposed to be the ace in the hole against the Blight but they manage to fuck everything up.

and he was fucking over his own country AND the people that could save it

i let alistar do it.

Why didn't they continue with the "heaven is fucking corrupted and the Maker left" story line in the sequels? I find that shit more interesting than "mages are good just kidding they are all blood mages now". Especially with the God-Child stuff

you forced to if you want to complete shales side quest.

What? You can just lie to her if you dont bring her with you for that quest.

>How did he fuck up?

>let the darkspawn rampage throughout the country
>try to kill the last two people in the country who can stop the blight
>don't let any grey wardens into the country because they might be in league with the orlesians (they're not)

Do we really need to do this again? The simple fact is that he was factually wrong about the necessity of the Grey Wardens.

If you want to argue that he didn't know for sure the Grey Wardens were needed, then it's still not an excuse - because he had no conclusive proof either way. He gambled and lost.

>The Grey Wardens didn't defeat the blight alone

The army you have in Denerim is made up o the troops you gathered during the various questlines (golems, werewolves, elves). So a ton of the work was on you to actually put together a force to defend Denerim.

>If he and his men had died at Ostagar then the Darkspawn would have won for sure

If he had used that army properly then that might be a point in his favor. Instead he was trying to consolidate his grip on the throne while gemlock fucking shits were running around burning the place down.

Loghain wasn't completely wrong at Ostagar (the Wardens maybe should have kept some of their boys in reserve in case the worst happened), but he did plenty of shit afterwards that outright makes him a villain.

You are either baiting, a supremely autistic being or a Bioware writer.

He never had any intention of helping, user. That's the point. The lateness of the beacon provided decent cover for him to seize power and stop what he thought was an Orlesian invasion.

He let all of his political rivals die in one fell swoop. That's why he was bad.

Because monotheism is problematic, user. You can't have things similar to Christianity in vidya!
Really hope that prophecy that Rivain fortune teller comes true in the books. Supposedly, the Maker will return and bring forth the fire that will destory Tevinter.

>Why didn't they continue with the "heaven is fucking corrupted and the Maker left" story line in the sequels?

Isn't that a major plot point in Inquisition?

DAO probably has the largest amount of options for evil playthrough i've seen in RPGs.
You can play as such a murderous, backstabbing scumbag who fucks with witches and succubi i was genuinely surprised at the edge possible to achieve in the game.
You can literally desecrate the ashes of local Jesus for fuck's sake.

It only came true because he retreated though. Can you tell me with the utmost certainty that Ostagar was a lost cause.

Loghain afraid of Orlaise sacrificed half of the army . If he could of beaten the blight alone his army would of been decimated and what would stop the full might of Orlaise wrecking them ?

No, they're implying the Elven gods, they're not even gods themselves, are the Maker. A writer said that's not true and they want the existence of the Maker in the game to be up to the player.

Forgot to add. I think that's bullshit.

>He let all of his political rivals die in one fell swoop.

at the price of letting monsters run rampart

You're still ultimately the hero who (reluctantly) saves the day though, there's no option to go full EDGE and join the archdemon or something silly like that

Oh, I didn't play all of it.

I just got far enough to were everyone was like "Yeah Corypheus is one of the magisters who went to not-Heaven".

So it turned out the elves fucked everything up? Figures.

How does it compare to Mass Effect games in terms of overall quality?

I massively enjoyed both 1 and 2 and thought 3 was alright until the very end.

>join the archdemon

Is it even a sentient being? I thought it was pretty much some crazy ass dragon that just burns shit down.

I think it is highly probable that the the Darkspawn forces at Ostagar were greater than the defenders realized, and that their hubris in not waiting for reinforcements played a large role in their defeat.

If you like the entire ME trilogy, you will like anything.

I'm monitoring these types of threads. Everyone play nice.

>thought 3 was alright until the very end

If your standards are that low you might actually love DAO since it's a pretty good RPG

You end up as a hero while actually being an monster who greatly prolonged his own lifespan via the blood magic experiments at Warden's Keep, made multiple deals with demons, fucked a witch and got her pregnant with a being of godlike power and that sounds pretty cool to me.

What a bitch

When I first played DA2 I couldn't stand Aveline, it wasn't until a second playthrough that she became my best tank