>So with PS4 Pro our strategy has instead been to foster streamline rendering techniques that can take advantage of custom hardware.
>When coupled with best of breed temporal and spacial anti-aliasing algorithms, the results can be astonishing.
Source.
youtu.be
Jump to 3:14
Doesn't this sound like a lot of buzzwords for UPSCALING?
>We really like the shit they use in Rainbow Six Siege, therefore we're stealing it
Mfw Ubisoft delivers upscaling kino
>Doesn't this sound like a lot of buzzwords
He is confirming it is upscalling user
P$4 Pro confirmed it will upscale and won't render a single game at 4K
That entire conference was nothing BUT buzzwords.
I had to fucking mute it 10 minutes in because I was going deaf from all their bullshit.
>that guy trying to talk in a calm but elegant voice
>he is reading a script
Never trust anybody who talks like that
youtube.com
Cerny's voice sound better in Japanese
Upscaling to 4K will still at least get jag-heavy games looking nicer, but yeah, not having real 4k is a buzzkill.
Mark Cerny's always talked like a wimpy lesbian. It's only the past few years where he's started looking like the singer of a Weezer cover band, though.
perhaps he is eating too that produces too much feminine hormone
>like veggie food
PC can do native 4k for $200 but that's just for the graphics card, you would also have to buy $400 worth of other hardware to avoid performance bottlenecks and brute force driver overhead.
Reminder that not a single website, and not a single time in the entire conference they have said it moves games at 4k natively.
and yet consolefags still think otherwise
they already confirmed it is upscaling why would they say otherwise?
Can someone clear this up for me.
What's upscaling?
Isn't it just showing the game in a monitor at a lower resolution?
I mean, if I set a game at 720p in my 1080p monitor, isn't that 720p upscaled to 1080p?
What's so special about it?
>What's upscaling?
a chip that makes the image look better
>Simply put, upscaling produces video that utilizes your television’s or monitor’s maximum resolution, even when playing a standard definition video. Most flat-screen TVs have a 1920 x 1080p resolution, resulting in 2,073,600 pixels in total – that’s 1,920 across, multiplied by 1,080 rows of pixels. Playing a Standard Definition 720 x 567p movie, then, wouldn’t use all of the available pixels.
So instead of just using those 408,240 pixels, a device that supports upscaling – in the form of an upscaling Blu-ray player (like this Sony BDPS6500) or a 4K television – optimizes all those available pixels by ‘filling in the blanks’ and stretching the image across the entire screen.
>It typically works using an interpolation (inferring new data by extracting from known elements) algorithm, and tells pixels what to do based on what those surrounding it are displaying, and then duplicating them.
So basically, it's a fancy FXAA?
This chart illustrates the dividing line for normal 20/20 vision. To use the chart, check your viewing distance on the vertical axis and the size of the TV on the horizontal one. If the resulting position is above the line, you probably won't see a major difference between a 1080p and a 4k TV.
That doesn’t mean you won’t see any difference at all – it just means it won’t be significant. You should also know that this chart assumes lossless media. Nowadays, retail stores only use such media on their 4k TVs, while their 1080p TVs display highly-compressed media. This makes in-person comparison hard, and is done to boost sales of pricier sets.
I personally don't think there is a connection between the two but I could be wrong
So, it's what I said, just setting a game in a lower resolution, and having it fill up the screen.
Why are they making a big deal about it?
Why can't the PS4 do it already?
PC's have been doing that since forever.
>Why can't the PS4 do it already?
They do all the time.
PS3 almost all games weren't 1080p but still if you check in your TV it will say "HDMI input 1080p 60hz"
So basically, the PS4 Pro is a fucking scam?
>always sit more than 8 feet away
>40" tv
I always knew 4K was going to be a fucking meme. just like 3D
It'll supposedly make games run better but they haven't given out any hard numbers or comparisons so take that with a grain of salt.
what I think is that they combine upscale + anti-aliasing to achieve a proper upscaling experience
they may also use different techniques which I'm not familiar with.
For that price is because all it is doing is providing 99% of users better frame rate in older games and decent frame rate in VR which the regular PS4 will suffer to produce
yes
see pics of the PS4 Pro, only has HDMI out....Oh well not like it could do 4K 60FPS anyways lel
in short: PS4pro is a machine they had to release so they could push the VR meme
The regular PS4 will be a disaster for PSVR I don't even know if they are going to allow people to buy a PSVR to use with the regular PS4/PS4 Slim
I was watching this an hour ago or so since I missed it live and I gotta know, does anybody else think he sounds like an old lesbian or am I just crazy?
when people talk calmly like that I normally get the feeling to look around for snipers. creepy mother fuker
He's always talked like that.
youtube.com
>look around for snipers
usually they just want the money in your wallet
>or your soul
he now has that hipster trying to pick up high school chicks look
I missed the reveal because Nation's burgers are too fucking good, but here's what I've gathered about the PS4 Pro so far.
>New games will use the Pro as the new standard
>Some old games will be patched for Pro benefits, but while Bloodborne is confirmed for 60fps no other games have confirmed what will be gained
>Pro only has native 4K support for streaming playback, games and other non-streaming media will be upscaled from whatever their maximum native resolution
>Pro is confirmed to be unable to play 4K Blurays
Anything else I'm missing?
Nation's was great as always, their sides are still a little too expensive for what you're getting though.
That's about it. Though, I saw nothing about 60fps bloodb
>Bloodborne is confirmed for 60fps
source?
how much for that ?
Bloodborne won't get 60fps because it's multiplayer
>Bloodborne is confirmed 60 FPS
You got tricked.
Go ask Japan Studio on Twitter.
they are fucking supporting communism
they retweet this
Well, they did co-develop it.
every day I feel better than I don't support sony since 2002
LGBT, communism, broken indie for 60 dollars, shit hardware, interactive movies
I have absolutely no idea why people still buy products from them. If a PS4 pro was priced at around 250 dollars I would understand but selling all that crap hardware and degeneracy is just too much.
A non-brainwashed person like ne will never understand how this happens
Bloodborne will definitely get patched, Sucker Punch just confirmed Infamous Second Son was getting a patch, and it's way less popular.
>I have absolutely no idea why people still buy products from them.
Because Sony is the top dog. Also they're quite literally the only source for Japanese games, though they are ultimately irrelevant outside niche circles like Sup Forums.
>Also they're quite literally the only source for Japanese games
If you mean nioh, Yakuza and Shenmue they will always find home on Xbox and PC/Steam.
Most people in the west also buy PS4 to play Madden, Fifa and Uncharted.
Even if Madden, Fifa and Uncharted were good games I wouldn't buy a Sony console, handheld or TV/bluray player. They are fucking degenerates
Doesn't ISS have a "60FPS" mode that drops frequently? The patch would effectively be to force a VSync on to 60FPS. Bloodborne on the other hand is a Japanese game, and the Japanese LOVE to tie everything to framerate.
>A non-brainwashed person like me
Well don't pat yourself on the back too much.
>A non-brainwashed person
...
>If you mean nioh, Yakuza and Shenmue they will always find home on Xbox and PC/Steam.
But they aren't. NiOh might not due to Team Ninja saying "if you make nude mods for DoA5, we won't make any more games for you." Sega finds the Wii U a better fit for Yakuza than PC, and this is after them saying that PC is "very profitable". Plus Sega only ports ancient ass games to PC, while they keep making new games for consoles. Shenmue will likely not be rereleased anywhere else anytime, due to how convoluted the licensing is and all the real life shit that they paid to use. It did show up on the Xbox, didn't it?
>Most people in the west also buy PS4 to play Madden, Fifa and Uncharted.
Sup Forums loves to pretend those games don't matter, but if they didn't exist, then the PS4 would be dead.
>Bloodborne is confirmed for 60fps
buddy
you got rused
that tweet was fake
He dosnt know what temporalAA is....classic Sup Forums
>Sup Forums loves to pretend those games don't matter, but if they didn't exist, then the PS4 would be dead.
I'm not saying they don't matter
I'm saying people buy PS4 for that and millions of people buy a PS4 for that.
Sega could bring their games to Xbox like in the first Xbox. But they have a good deal with Sony because Sony is strong in Japan despite also jewing the japs.
Upscaling is basically the same as what happens when you blow up an image in something like Photoshop -- the extra pixels have to come from somewhere so the program basically averages pixels that are close together to approximate what the image would look like at the new point. This is the most straightforward method of upscaling(a subset of a more general process known as resampling) and tends to lead to a blurry image because the process is analogous to taking a picture with a camera that's slightly out-of-focus. There are algorithms that can attempt to identify features in the image like edges and noise and then try to "predict" what should be there, but that comes with certain costs and has unpredictable/mixed results.
What the PS4 Pro does, if rumors are to be believed, is not quite upscaling as I've just described it. The main method discussed is something called "checkerboard rendering." Basically, instead of rendering the image at, say, 1080p and then upscaling to 4K, it renders "half" of a 4k image by setting up a 4k render buffer but then only calculating the values for every other pixel in a checkerboard pattern. The missing pixels are then filled in using techniques which are probably pretty similar to an advanced upscaling filter. It's not true 4K, but if it's applied intelligently it would also be noticeably better than a simple upscaled image. To use another familiar analogy, checkerboard rendering is similar to interlaced video, which also only updates half of the pixels per refresh(if you're not familiar, most HD television broadcasts are interlaced due to bandwidth constraints). This technology was used to make Rainbow Six Siege run at 1080p60hz on consoles so if you want a sample of how PS4 Pro games will look at "4K" take a look at that.
>because Sony is strong in Japan
Because they're literally the only ones there.
well you can't beat Yakuza in japan
but you could make deals with sega to bring all games to Xbox except for Yakuza which the only thing sony wants
Theres nothing there about 60fps BB though.
Look m8, it would be nice, but Horizon, Spidey, and discount TLoU are still running 30fps from the clips we saw, theres no way BB will be bumped to 60fps
Except they managed to put one of the games on the Wii U. Granted I doubt they'd care that much about the Wii U, but that at least proves that they don't have an iron clad exclusivity contract. Either that or they've reinstated Nintendo's draconian policy of "games must be exclusive to our consoles for a set period of time before you can put them anywhere else".
I actually find this interesting.
the yakuza remaster right? but it didn't sell
they could have released on the west for the 360/PS3 or 360/Xbox1 exclusive
They only printed like 10,000 copies. It didn't sell 10,000 copies, they only MADE that many.
it's the framemeister for HD
the problem with advanced upscalling is that it will require power and programming that could have been used to get better performance other than "visual blast"
if that's true Sega is really retard to spend money on remastering and port to 10,000 people
All that hardware buzzword reminds me of this
>Sup Forums disrespecting mark cerny
it's over lads, go home. the corpse of this board has rotted
Sega Japan was known for making a lot of bone headed decisions. The only reason Sega was relevant in the US was because of Tom Kalinske and his leadership. Bernie Stolar was basically a puppet for Sega Japan.
Gold for reminding me of this
laughing so hard I can't breath
It seems like every company he ever worked for closed down for whatever reason.
I want to watch Mark Cerny and John Carmack discuss programming games
>Wii Music was 2008
I want to go back to the glory days.
I can't watch right now I woke up the entire family
in 2008 I had faith in Nintendo
I thought they were making money from wii motion games to make zelda,metroid, mario, donkey kong, star fox..
But suddenly it was 2013 and none of that happened.
One more for good measure.
youtube.com
>durr everything is a buzzword even when it's clearly explained
it's people like you ensuring the human race will be extinct within the next century
Fuck I just want to go back to 2013, even that small distance will be good enough.
>Suscaled stretched picture
>cheap version for AA
>on 4K display where you can notice all of this like some took Vaseline and covered the screen whit
ok bud
>believe in the buzz words scripted for that event very good rehearsed
You are an idiot. Literal idiot.
This thing sucks, I'm going to buy Scorpio instead. Still no next gen console, only PC, and the price of hardware in my country keeps rising due to poor economy.
I'm 27 and I realize lots of people in my generation is already nostalgic
We are too new to feel nostalgia for 5 or 10 years ago
>scripted for that event very good rehearsed
all the talking is scripted and they practiced a lot on how would they speak to make an impression in people like you
Hey, I'm 27 too. Wish I wasn't, but that's the truth.
we are falling for the press memes
>now
>buy now
>save by buying more
>expectation for a game that will be released in 10 months
the past was not so good as we remember it
Trust me, I'd love to go back to 2013 if I had the chance (and the winning lottery numbers).
Cost the same as a PS4 with improved HDD, cpu and GPU.
In no way is it a scam
The PS4 costs $300 now.
And yet it seems to have made a much greater (negative) impact on you. I was just offering a possible explanation for what the PS4 Pro is actually doing, not making claims about how good or bad it is.
>native 4k for $600
If you're playing Quake 2 maybe
With less HDD space, worse GPU and CPU.
Doesn't change that the PS4 was worth it at $399 before and this improved version is also worth it at $399.
Problem is, this ''improved'' version offers nothing.
Even the PS3 upscaled 720p and lower resolutions to 1080p.
I really don't see why the PS4 can't upscale to 4k.
It's $100 more for a bit more draw distance, and a bit more stable framerates.
The GPU is no doubt better, but the performance gain will be minimal due to the garbage CPU making an even bigger bottleneck than in the regular PS4.
>negative
>reality
Wow.. stop right there. I know what you said and I expressed my opinion regarding the upscaling (advanced pixel matching bla bla)
that's it.
The PS4 in 2013 was worth $299 since it doesn't have any kind of backward compatibility , HDMI 2.0 and the PS2 only games arrived 2 years later.
PS4pro was worth 399 in 2013, not in 2016.
Most 4K TVs do it already.
PS4 games now look great on my TV since it has really good scaling. So yeah its basically a scam.
If there's really good performance boosts then maybe it will be worth it
There is no reason if you don't own a PS4 already to not buy the pro version if it'd your first current gen console.
I waited for this thing since I heard about the "neo" months and months ago. So I will be buying this for those "minimal" things you mentioned. I want better fps and specs for games to make use of.
>Pro is confirmed to be unable to play 4K Blurays
What the fuck man. That should be a basic feature on something that beats its dick to being 4k capable.
Yeah user tell that to the 40 million+ units sold. Your opinion is invalid.
>people expected real 4K at console prices
For fucks sake PCs can't reliably do 4K at the moment unless you spend a shitload, what made you think consoles could at a lower price point?
40 million brainwashed people
that's why I said earlier that a non-brainwashed person like me don't understand how this works
>Pro is confirmed to be unable to play 4K Blurays
There goes my only motivation for buying one
Come on, Sony should already know they've been using Playstation to push new formats, tons of people bought PS2s as cheap DVD players and the same for PS3 and blu ray
Not pushing 4K BD with the Pro seems stupid
In general it's pretty unhealthy to have such a naive skepticism about things, but it's Sup Forums and unhealthy coping mechanisms are the norm. What gets me is that it looks like English isn't even your first language, so you're doubly ignorant to what it is you're dismissing.
>naive skepticism
>Sony buzzword conference
any sane person can smell their tricks because they don't even hide
yes I watched the conference.
You just went full retard and is using the "not native english speaker" card because you have 0 arguments.
I'm not even talking about the conference. At no point in this conversation have I been referring to the conference. I offered a POSSIBLE technical explanation for how the PS4 Pro renders at "4K" and you claimed that I was using "buzzwords," so I refuted that claim.
As for "smelling" out any "tricks" they might be using, sure, it's possible that everything they're claiming is total bullshit. But I also know that the hardware is capable of pushing out roughly 2x the number of pixels as the current PS4 and that 2x the number of pixels are needed to render at checkerboarded 4K. And like I said in my original post I also know I can look at footage of RS Siege on consoles to get a sense of what checkerboarded rendering actually looks like. So instead of just blindly saying "It'll be amazing!" or "It's a total scam!" I actually have logic and evidence to back up my statements.
>I offered a POSSIBLE technical explanation for how the PS4 Pro renders at "4K" and you claimed that I was using "buzzwords," so I refuted that claim.
Your explanation is already detailed in the Digital Foundry "Impressions"
What you don't understand is they are using also a technique that combines 900p,1440p with 4K
The gameplay will use dynamic rendering in the same way a dvd player has max bit rate/avg bit rate