Your opinion on Sonic Unleashed

Your opinion on Sonic Unleashed

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surprisingly very little werehog porn out there considering how furries can be

This, step up your fucking game furries!

I mean theres...this? Not porn but still a cute redraw

the actual gameplay werehog segments was really not as bad as people said, but were really ruined by that god AWFUL framerate and levels that went on too long

youtube.com/watch?v=SLmUR_sBFB0
youtube.com/watch?v=crbC_mQSLKg

>AWFUL framerate
>went on to long

?

Fuck off sonicfag

great soundtrack, solid gameplay, fun story...I guess...

Daytime levels that I played were ok, nighttime levels were shit and too slow. Overall wouldn't recommend.

Just realized this game is 8 years old. And it was the last Sonic game that had fully 3D levels. Holy shit I still remember replaying that demo over and over again until I got it for christmas.

never ever, pcucks

Not as bad as it's made out to be.
It's my favorite in the series.

Werehog levels were very tedious compared to the daytime levels, I really didn't have fun playing them. Daytime levels were gud. I did enjoy the various locations too.

youtube.com/watch?v=P6ektyERQ1E

Like, out of all of them? 3D only?

Daytime stages are good and the nighttime stages are okay, but they're so drawn out and tedious. Coupled with the shitty medals and the hub that serves no purpose but to slow you down and look comfy, most of the game is a chore.

Colors and Generations trimmed the fat and are better games for it, though they suffer in ways that Unleashed did well at.

Out of the boost trilogy, colors is the worst game by far to me.

Only thing that ever disappointed me was that there were unlockables for getting all the medals. And I didnt get what feeding chip did.

werehog was actually fun
daytime stages were great
eggmanland and medal collecting can go eat a dick
7/10 underrated gem

It increases your friendship and got you movie shorts.

Feeding chip was something more for kids to get attached to. If you fed him enough things he liked, he would add an extra comment after saying what it tasted like as well as give you some bonus movies for the media room when you fed him enough. I mainly did it for the achievement and i was curious at what he would say, but my little brother loved his quips and voice clips. Going for all the medals was such a fun challenge. I didn't mind that there was nothing special about it except achievements because there was so many and about a quarter of them were hard as fuck to obtain. I wish the newer sonics had more collectibles like that again.

How did Sega make a game in 2008 that looked infinilty better than anything Nintendo could muck up for the Wii U?

probably played it on ps3, which ran at an unlocked framerate but couldn't handle more than 30fps so it dipped a ton

Theres not that many good screenshots of the game but in motion holy fuck. Its so aesthetic. The saturated hues, light rays, lighting in day and night, architecture design, and particle effects are real next gen stuff. One of the few motion blurs that looks legitimately well done too and something later sonics fucked up. Sonic contrasted so well with the environments, even the more blue ish ones. Amazing level of detail

Maybe, I have the 360 version. Outside of like 2 spots in jungle joyride it runs like a dream.

5/10 game for me.

It has the greatest cutscene in all of Sonic history.

youtu.be/mqHxGoFERZw

It's mediocre, not nearly as good as that literal single dick rider here likes to fantasize it is.

This cutscene gives me goose bumps every time. Real talk, if 2017 doesnt open as strongly as this, im gonna be disappointed as fuck.

Daytime stages are fun, Nighttime stages are a pain in the ass and not good. Overall though, it was a good first step to get Sonic out of the pit he fell in after 06.

But IGN said this game is worse than 06, user :^)

In the context of the franchise, it's one of the most important games.

After Sonic 06 was melodramatic Dragonball Z with furries, Unleashed fixed everything in terms of what Sonic should be. The humans, the tone, the humor, Eggman, Sonic's voice and design, simple but epic plot, etc was all pitch-fucking-perfect.

It's the only reason to have any faith in Sonic Team at all.

Not to mention it's fucking incredible soundtrack.

The entire game can be summed up in one sentence:

"A step in the right direction"

I liked it because it was a Sonic game where I like half the game I could play a lousy beat-em-up that was miles better than the normal gameplay stages.

I got to the last stage just because of the werehog stages alone and then died like 40 minutes into it and had to start over and gave up.

>Unleashed fixed everything in terms of what Sonic should be.
There was still spoken dialog, resulting in Sonic telling us that he's cool, rather than showing it. There was still a second game (which is of low quality within its own genre), instead of polishing and creating more content for the main game.

You're not entirely wrong, though. It definitely started the franchise in the direction it currently is heading in.

You liked the werehog stages more? Thats certainly a rare opinion, why is that?

if this was on cinemas i would be shitting my pants

Sonic shows how he's cool all the time. Hell, the few Japanese fans can't get enough of how cool he is.

I don't really get this complaint. There was pretty much nothing else to polish. The day stages are the best content out of all the boost games up to this point. At most, a few more side acts would have been made with the extra time. the only thing I would change is capping Sonic's speed during the chaser segments. Empire city act 3 is the only level in the game that keeps Sonic's speed uncapped during that segment and its way more exciting. Not that I don't mind QSSing to go even faster than the engine intended.

>Unleashed Eggman

What went so right?

>no to mention it is fucking incredible soundtrack

opinion disregarded

It was shit, day levels included.
They lookedgood, but gameplay was boost 2 win between setpieces
Werehog was shit
Everything between the main levels is unbearable padding

not him, but I think he's talking about spending more time making good day stages, because the Act 2s and 3s don't really hold a candle to the Act 1s.

>Unleashed Eggman and his voice
>Unleashed Sonic and his voice
>Unleashed Orbot (before he was named this) and his voice
>Unleashed Tails, Amy, and Professor Pickle and their voices
>Didn't like Chip a lot but his role was appreciated and conveyed well enough

Unleashed got the characters and voices perfectly. How sad that they got rewritten and recasted just 2 years later.

Is this one of the few games where sonic can actually run fast without things getting in the way for the most part?

>There was pretty much nothing else to polish. The day stages are the best content out of all the boost games up to this point.
Paths that are less corridor-y. Less bottomless pits. Make the movement less awkward when not zooming in a straight line. Making use of all four face buttons in the air. Multiple playable characters able to run through the boost stages, while retaining a smidge of uniqueness to add layers of different forms of replayability to each stage?

You know, stuff that they had figured out in 1994.

I'm more trying to get at adding more depth. Generations was a step in the right direction in that regard (power ups, Chemical Plant and Seaside Hill having better alternate routes, etc).

Kanemaru's the only good Sonic. Other characters have decent to great English voices, but for some reason, none of the English Sonics sound right.

Well, there was that one for the OVA dub. He was pretty good.

Yes, you have access to max speed at all time. The levels might seem frustrating at first but after a few replays you are an unstoppable force. There is 2 achievements related to beating certain stages under a time limit. The game is designed as always being on the go and very agile, light on the feet. Don't fall for the boost 2 win meme though because after the first 2 levels, the game will fuck you up for playing carelessly. Play it on 360/PS3, there's a demo on the 360 store if you have that. Give it a download, replay it a few times and you'll get a hang of the controls and level. Every main day level in the game is fantastic.

>I'm more trying to get at adding more depth. Generations was a step in the right direction in that regard (power ups, Chemical Plant and Seaside Hill having better alternate routes, etc).

That I can totally agree with, it's shame these levels take so long to make. It's been nearly a decade with only 3 boost games.

I hope 2017 is a boost game.

Couldn't disagree more. I think the japanese voices for all characters sucks and this is mainly an english series anyway. For me it goes

Unleashed griffith > ryan drummond > roger craig smith > griffith in everything else

Respect for jaleel white sonic, but I think that voice would sound weird on modern sonic. For classic sonics voice though, hes perfect

The challenge of Sonic Unleashed wasn't beating the stage, but to get the best possible time. You can be satisfied with merely beating a stage, or you can be like this autist and beat that stage over and over again until you get the best possible time:

youtube.com/watch?v=TVIAyaGa0MM

It's crazy how good Griffith got in Unleashed.

WHOO

Unfortunately I lack a 360/ps3, however I do own it for the Wii. I just remember how much freedom I had in Chun-nan. Every other sonic game I've played or watched seemed like sonic had to stop every few seconds.

The Wii version isn't too shabby, just too much Werehog.

I can never get the hang of m and dspeed, but the drifting in 3D is always fun because theyre otherwise simple sections and trying to maintain control with the crazy speed boost is always fun. I was disappointed when generations removed this. It would make sections like the end of green hill or seaside hill so much funner. When the game was new to me, I replayed the stages an inhuman number of times, first trying to cut minutes, then seconds, then miliseconds, until I just reached my skill ceiling and couldn't get a lower time. The real end game of unleashed is speedrunning the night stages. I did that after reaching my limits for the day stages. Many have overlooked it but unleashed as a speedrunning game for both day and night, is fantastic at what it does.

>speed run on sonic

is anything fast enough for this madman?

Sonic Generations had drifting, though. It has a different animation, but it's still there.

He was dissatisfied by Colors due to how slow it was.

>youtube.com/watch?v=TVIAyaGa0MM

absolutely fucking insane

I know it had drifting. But drifting in unleashed was another way to gain more speed and made it a valuable but risky tool to use when going for better times. Trade speed for controllability and visibility since the camera tilts a bit when drifting. Generations removed this and made the 3D sections very cut and dry. Its a solidly put together game but nowhere near as fun, fast, and expoitable as unleasheds engine.

The exploits are not intentional in Unleashed though and they shouldn't count towards a positive. You're basically docking points from Generations because Sonic Team made a more stable game.

I once had the same opinion as other Boost detractors. That it was just boost2win with no challenge. Then I watched videos like this and was forced to rethink my opinion.

youtube.com/watch?v=tvvg_fQ_ObY

I don't care about that. The game controls just like generations if you're playing it the "normal" way. Good for casual players and those who don't want to get the best time but for those of us who think outside the box it was a downgrade. There is nothing more stable about it since you didn't have to do any of the exploits in unleashed and could play just fine without them.

On the other hand, Generations does feature a lot more "alternative" routes than Unleashed did. Speedrunners love Speed Highway for that reason.

In the end its the same. Once you find your favorite path or the best path you always play it the same way. Might as well cut them out since youll end up playing it the same, make a longer and more linear level, and leave the engine open for speed runners or the more experimental/curious types to play around with.

HOW DID HE HIT THE RAIL AT THE END

>a fucking b rank

Wtf

>The game controls just like generations if you're playing it the "normal" way
The drift in Unleashed is absolute shit. It only becomes bearable if you're speedrunning the game and learn how to control it through repeated practice. Also Sonic is more loose in Unleashed. Again, another thing that speedrunners probably like but is not good for first-time/casual players. Basically Unleashed is only better if you're a speedrunner.

>that blue trail after a homing attack

Why did they ever remove that. It was such a satisfying and cool looking effect

It's in Lost World.

Sonic Unleashed's ranking system also takes into account the amount of rings gathered and the amount of enemies destroyed. Since destroying enemies actually slows you down, a lot of speedrunners avoid it where possible.

>What went so right?
Everything until he didn't shoot Sonic into space or made sure he fell to the core.

NOOOOOOOOOOO! Don't remind me of that game...

>tfw I want to get Lost Worlds.

I've tried it at a friend's place and watched him play it. It was super messy, but still...

Its the only sonic game that has ever frustrated me. One could say I'm a sonic fanboy, or perhaps have a high tolerance or am masochistic or skilled at games. But sonic lost world is the first time I have ever been bored, frustrated, and lacking the willpower to go on and beat the game. It took me 6 months to beat a 3-4 hour game. Take this as you will

I don't know man, this is a pretty good one

But then that removes the challenge of FINDING the best path.

It's just average. Not too fun but not so awful that I wanted to stop playing it either. The level design is just boring 90% of the time and then the other 10% are the 2-3 levels that absolutely frustrate you.

Just pirate the PC version and give it a go I say.

It's funny, for me the only Sonic game I dropped (Sonic 06 not included since I returned that shit to the rental store the very next day) was Unleashed. The werehog sections were draining me and I just up and quit at Empire City Night because I couldn't take it anymore. Didn't pick it back up and finish it until after I beat Colors.

Thats true but it just feels like a waste of time on their part once someone like me uses the same path every time after the initial run, or somone who plays the game once and never bothers finding another one to begin with since, well, they played it once. A longer more linear level with shortcuts peppered around that first timers/one timers will never get but those who replay the game will eventually grasp is my preferred level layout design. It doesn't help that every stage in generations feels short and unsatisfying as fuck but maybe that's just me. After ever level I always caught myself thinking "really? that's all? that sucks"

Funny that you go and bring up colors then, every act after the first drained on me harder than any night level in unleashed. Very deceptive marketing that game had.

I think it comes down to a difference in what you're looking to get out of the game.

I'm primarily a fan of the classics (1-3K), so I'm sort of comporting my ideal end of play of those onto the boost games.

In those games, largely 3K, there are several major routes. Some are faster than others, some contain more goodies than others, some are more dire and deadly than others. Part of the appeal of those games is that you can speedrun one day, explore the next, platform the next, and so on. The levels don't serve one singular function. I can go back to the same place another day, and get something different out of it.

If the levels are tailor made just for speedrunning, then that's all I can play them for. It limits the replay value to me.

Now, if you're not like me, and all you want is to speedrun, then that's totally fine. You're not losing anything by that.

It's not terrible.

I enjoy the classics a fair amount to but its primarily 1 and 2 that are my favorites out of them. I don't like the exploration/sandbox designed levels of cd, never have and never will. You are right about 3K being all that but again to me, size doesn't always mean its better. What it does do though, it does very well and I respect it as one of the best games in the series but its definitely not my favorite because a lot of levels I just don't like. Sonic is not the series that comes to mind when I think of casual exploration. I think fast paced obstacle courses with lots of tricks in the trunk waiting to be discovered, engine wise. But not always do I want to do that or feel that adrenaline. I feel that the collectibles in unleashed as well as the night stages, hated as they are, offer up a strikingly well done contrast. Its not as conventional as sonic staying in one form and having the same levels but it functionally proposes a literally different half on the same disc. I find both halves of unleashed to carry themselves very strongly. The day offers speedrunning with speeds and style never before seen in the series (in 2008 at least, with generations out there's another game like it) but you can also slow down, appreciate all the scenery, and look for collectibles. Regarding things to do, such as 3Ks different paths, I would say that the night levels offer more to do. In addition to the speedrunning and collectible hunting seen in day levels, you can also get into fights, learn a bunch of combos on the setlist to pummel enemies, smash shit up to get powerups, and 3D platform with tighter controls that the day stages understandably might fall short in. I enjoy the contrast and how each halve offers something that the other may be lacking in. The day stages offer tremendous speed but some may say lack platforming or exploration. The night stages trade this speed directly for those. Neither is compromised and each do their own thing. Just my two cents.

>I enjoy the contrast and how each halve offers something that the other may be lacking in.
I guess I can understand that. For me, though, that's what bugs me so much about the 3D games, on a fundamental level.

Like you said, it's not as conventional. Conventional isn't always inherently good, but I feel that in this case, the convention was good to the point that abandoning it was a bad idea.

There was a sort of complete, in-the-game freedom to deciding what you wanted to do. You start up the game, and as you're playing the game, you decide what you're going to do. By doing it. If I want to speed run, I'll go as fast as I can. If I want to explore, I'll do that instead. What if I change my mind half way through one, and want to do the other? Obviously if I want to speedrun half way into an explore-a-thon, this wouldn't apply. But if I'm racing along, and I decide I want to explore instead, I can just make that choice right then and there. This is contrasted with Unleashed, where if I want to drop the speed and explore, I have to navigate more menus to change what I'm doing.

I think there's a definite sort of impressiveness of craft that goes with be able to make a game like that. That Sonic Team now generally separates the several dimensions of what made the gameplay so appealing in the original convention, mostly shows to me that they can't integrate them into one gameplay style. And that, to me, is evidence of poorer craft.

Unleashed is far from unique in this regard. SA1, 2, 06, and Generations suffer from this as well. If you can't figure out how to make your game hit all of the high notes, then just make another game that hits the high notes that the first game can't hit.

In a way, I definitely see how that's admirable. They adapted to a problem.

But what sticks out far more to me is that they had to resort to that to fix the problem in the first place. It seems like a cheap measure. It becomes a "quantity over quality" thing.

>Sonic became so bad that Sup Forums is actually praising Sonic Unleashed as good

Speaking of Sonic, CrowbCat's Sonic 25th Anniversary supercut makes me sad.

I thought it was decent when I played it years ago, and I'm not going to revisit it. The scenes where you had to talk to civilians and that thing that turned out to be like a god or whatever sucked.

Nice quads

There is definitely more consistency in the original games. Thats not up for debate. But outside of here and maybe a few sonic/sega related forums, the average consensus seems to be that the faster stages are more popular and well remembered. Star light is sonic 1's highlight. Chemical plant to many is 2s. Ice cap and flying battery to 3K. Stardust speedway to CD. What I'm getting at here is it would seem like a lot of people prefer this kind on/off switch in level design and once they find a playstyle they're comfortable with, stick with it. The above stages are probably the fastest in their respective games, showing that people like the flipped switch on in regards to going fast in a sonic level. The day levels in unleashed capture this perfectly, rarely stopping you but rather giving you the freedom to go as fast as you want but it will come at a price in the form of deaths/a messy run if you don't know what you're doing. I honestly can't say I have ever encountered that mentality upon playing an older sonic game. For me the goal and challenge has always been trying to get the end as fast and clean as possible. But I appreciate when the games offer more than this as I do like the partake in it when racing to the end gets tiresome. Finding other paths, or collectibles, or engaging in fights, or picking up powerups, taking in the scenery, things like this. I don't think its incompetence on Sonic Team's part. The main course of their games is always satisfying and enjoying to play, the presentation is well done. The problem is central and has never gone away, only grown as time has went on and games got longer and more expansive: game length. They come up with these things in the first place to extend playtime so consumers don't feel burned on paying $60 for 3 hours of entertainment. Now this is where things go awry amongst players. continued

It's not like modern Sonic's gameplay is conducive to exploration. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to do everything in 3D that you could do in 2D. With 3D, going fast has its limits. It's hard to have both speed and control at the same time. It's like how when you're running at full speed, it might be difficult to turn tight corners. And our reflexes are even lower when playing video games due to the limited feedback of a 2D screen.

So when making a game, you have to commit to a single goal. Is your goal to go fast or to explore? Pick one or the other because if you chase after both rabbits, you're bound to fail.

People now want endless boost stages. As fun and exciting as they are, I imagine these are very taxing to make, taking an incredible amount of time, resources, thinking, and planning to make. The business isn't a charity. They have deadlines to make and investors and consumers to please. They don't have infinite time nor money to churn out infinite boost levels. So a compromise is now made. Either the game is made short and filled with cheap acts (colors), the game is just short in general with no padding (generations), or remove the speed that has now become so tantalizing and fun to play (lost world). Being an unleashed thread, I shouldn't have to mention that coming up with an alternate gameplay is of course another option. But there you have it, the given choices on how to make a modern game with acceptable play time that people won't feel burned on. This doesn't mean make a 20+ hour epic. But these 2-3 hour games, as much as a sonic fanboy I am, are getting aggravating. A 6-8 hour adventure is just right in my opinion, for a big budget 3D game. This may have gone off course a bit so I'll try to head back. In the old games, you weren't always able to pick one of those things to do at any given time. At times your curiosity might have even punished you, in the form of insta death crushers or running out of time on one 3Ks longer levels for example. I prefer this on/off approach to making levels over a mix of random ones with some better than others. After coming off an awesome stage like green hill or flying battery for example, I'm greeted by utter shit with marble or sandopolis. Whereas in say unleashed, I know that day = fast obstacle course, night = slower, brawlier, jumpier/platformy, etc and have reasonable expectations for each level I get myself into. Like said, its hard to achieve both with one character (but still doable). Split them up and its suddenly much more feasible and doesn't step on each others toes.

1/2
>the average consensus seems to be that the faster stages are more popular and well remembered. Star light is sonic 1's highlight. Chemical plant to many is 2s. Ice cap and flying battery to 3K. Stardust speedway to CD. What I'm getting at here is it would seem like a lot of people prefer this kind on/off switch in level design and once they find a playstyle they're comfortable with, stick with it.
That's definitely true. I think that's partly the source of a lot of controversy when going back to those games.

Back in the day, the speed was definitely the primary marketing gimmick. That those levels are the ones that stick out to the masses comes as no surprise. The problem is, when compared to other games in the present, the classic Sonic games don't really measure up in terms of raw "speed" factor. The aspect of the gameplay that stands the test of time, I believe, is the seamless integration of speed, platforming, and exploration brought on by the pinball physics engine, and slope-happy level design.

So when you have idiots like Arin going back and trying to play them, all he sees is:
>not as fast as modern games
>whoa wtf the games aren't actually about GOIN FASD
>fuck this game

That speed is all that seems to be fondly remembered is a shame.

>giving you the freedom to go as fast as you want but it will come at a price in the form of deaths/a messy run if you don't know what you're doing
This, I think, is but another unfortunate means of compensating for the limitations of the gameplay style. Punishing someone with death, rather than lost time, makes for an incredibly frustrating speed running game. That bottomless pits are so commonly used in the modern games as instant punishment for fuckups is, I think, to the point where it's excessive. Moreover, this more punishing form of trial and error gameplay seems to turn whiners like Arin away from games that ARE purely about speed.

2/2
>It's not like modern Sonic's gameplay is conducive to exploration. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to do everything in 3D that you could do in 2D.
That's partly what's so frustrating. There's an entire additional plane of space to use, an entire additional plane to explore.

>So when making a game, you have to commit to a single goal. Is your goal to go fast or to explore? Pick one or the other because if you chase after both rabbits, you're bound to fail.
And that's understandable. Again, though, for me at least, there's a contant sour taste in my mouth.

"In the past, we would give you bacon and eggs on the same plate. Nowadays, you have to order them separately, and eat them independently of one another".

Not a perfect analogy or anything, but I think it gets the point across.

That they're giving me a split product when its predecessors were synthesized shows a step down, to me. A stark limitation to the gameplay style, one that the previous one did not have, that only serves to make the contemporary style appear more lacking, more mediocre, more misguided, in contrast.

If you're not able to catch both rabbits, are you sure you're not barking up the wrong tree?

That's not to say that the Boost gameplay isn't intrinsically fun. It's a fucking blast. But at this point, making it the central gameplay style for the franchise going forward would be misguided.

I wouldn't mind seeing the gameplay relegated to a spinoff series of racing games. Each game giving new characters, "tracks", and the like. Maybe some multiplayer?

It's an issue with standards. Back in the 90s, the Genesis games were considered very fast compared to what they were up against. But at the same time, it was still manageable.

But as time went on, standards became higher. The speed of the Genesis games can't really be considered anything special in this day and age. And as "Sonic" is built around speed, you basically have to meet the expectations that the name creates. If the modern Sonic only moved at the same speed as the Genesis games, he couldn't really be called "Sonic" anymore. He'd be fast, but certainly not deserving of that name. But that also creates its own share of issues, since the faster you go, the more you have to sacrifice other things.

And that's on top of the plethora of issues that adding an extra dimension creates. Exploring on a 2D plane is easy. Searching every nook and cranny on a flat map is simple. But add another dimension and it becomes much more difficult. This ain't Zelda. Sonic can't slowly, carely check every corner of his stages. That's not what he's built around.

I know we like to take the piss on Sonic Team, but it's not as if they haven't been trying, you know? They've been working on this shit for fifteen years, trying to make 3D Sonic games work. But with every breakthrough they make, another setback is presented. It's an upward battle.

And it's not like they can just stick to 2D platformers either. The reign of 2D platformers has been long over. It's just a niche genre now. If they never breached the 3D wall, if they just stuck to making nothing but 2D platformers, Sonic would have inevitably faded into obscurity, devolved into a cult hit and eventually abandoned and forgotten. A big company like Sega cannot limit their flagship series to 2D platformers. The very prospect is ludicrous.

A lot of what's happened to Sonic over the years was both a result of a difficult concept to work with as well as pure necessity.

It's not good. Colors and Generations improved on the daytime stages, which were too linear in Unleashed and full of shitty QTE's. The werehog is a stupid concept and the stages went on for way too long. Having the sun and moon medal system forcing you to replay those dreadful stages was the icing on the shit cake.

>If the modern Sonic only moved at the same speed as the Genesis games, he couldn't really be called "Sonic" anymore. He'd be fast, but certainly not deserving of that name. But that also creates its own share of issues, since the faster you go, the more you have to sacrifice other things.
That Mania is a thing, and is generating so much positive buzz, is very strong evidence against that idea.

>Sonic would have inevitably faded into obscurity, devolved into a cult hit
The the general critical reception to just about every Sonic game, that seems to be about the state he was in for a while. He's historically been one of the media's biggest punching bags since his jump to 3D. Faded to the point where he's no longer THE thing to talk about. Already in sort of a niche.

The fact that Sonic's very genre (platforming), isn't a huge AAA focal point anymore is a reason for that as well. Even if they're 3D. What 3D platformers other than the assembly line Mario game generate big buzz from all corners of the gaming media?

>That Mania is a thing, and is generating so much positive buzz, is very strong evidence against that idea.
But that buzz will pass. It's considered a very novel thing now, but it will pass. This is a one time thing. Because for every time they try this again henceforth, the buzz will lessen and lessen. Basically, hype for a 2D platformer Sonic game will never get higher than this.

You are right about all that. They are classic games for a reason and they are probably the most innovative, creative, and quality platformers of that generation of consoles. They are the reason sonic launched into popularity and became the icon today that has allowed him to survive so much controversy and infighting amongst fans. I didn't play them when they were the new hot thing because I was poor and my first console was a nintendo 64. But against its contemporaries, it was easily one of the fastest games on the market. In modern times, and especially after the boost was formally included in sonics moves with rush (for 2D) and unleashed (for 3D), the old games seem like molasses at times in direct comparison. Shit even advance 2 and parts of adventure 1 seemed to already be much faster than the original games. A new generation of consoles means new expectations on what can be conveyed with the characters signature ability and the boost introduced in unleashed is the height of it all. I honestly can't picture sonic going faster than he does in unleashed. At least definitely not in the present. Maybe if they come up with something that streamlines development and can somehow let players handle that level of speed, but its not happening any time soon. We have seen that a common complaint against lost world, coming off the heels of unleashed and generations, is that it was way to slow. People are expectant and have new standards now that they have to follow through with, at least for the 3D games. Mania is getting praise from all but shitheads like IGN.

I don't think punishing with death is a bad thing nor was it something the modern games came up with. Getting to ballsy in sonic 2 or 3 resulted in you falling in pits, ramming into spikes, or getting crushed and insta killed. Its fine in modern games because upon death you have your full speed back and can retry the obstacle that got you with newfound knowledge. But the act of dying itself stirs whinin

Definitely possible. Guess time will tell.

>I honestly can't picture sonic going faster than he does in unleashed. At least definitely not in the present.
There's F-Zero, I guess.
youtube.com/watch?v=GQ1FLPBw1FE

>Mania is getting praise from all but shitheads like IGN
lol even they doubled back on their shitting
youtube.com/watch?v=Hlu5ERC_GMg

>Getting to ballsy in sonic 2 or 3 resulted in you falling in pits, ramming into spikes, or getting crushed and insta killed.
Bottomless pits were pretty sparse in the classics, barring the later stages. Crushing was definitely around in a great deal of stages. Spikes, however, weren't instadeath (outside of parts of GHZ in Sonic 1).

Regardless, time will tell if the general public NEEDS something that is as-fast-as-possible with current gaming technology in order to enjoy a contemporary Sonic game.

If Mania's a hit, and starts a line of well received games, then that will be flat out untrue. If it turns out to be a one-time thing, and Sonic just falls back into the punching bag role, then I guess you'll be right, and they need something that demonstrates peak realizable-speed by contemporary industry standards.

My money's on actual gameplay quality standing out over a dogmatic adherence to marketing memes. But again, time will tell.

I addressed some of this in but I will continue a bit more. Basically, yes. Sonic Team I think is very undercredited. They have introduced many great ideas but then something fell through---it may be corporate deadlines, it may be not following through with an idea enough, it may be demands from Sega to make a longer game. People enjoy dumping shit on them but honestly there's no one else I would trust Sonic to than Sonic Team and Sega. They did a mixture of these things in previous games. In Adventure 2, to bolster game variety and length, they made action stages with shooting and more platforming and exploration based stages. In Heroes they grouped everyone into neat teams based on fan demands at the time and strayed away from alternate gameplays taking up whole levels. They came up with guns and chaos related features that they thought would suit an antihero like Shadow. They merged the action and platforming from the shooting stages and exploration from treasure stages and these make up the basis of the Werehogs concepts and level designs. I imagine this also helps them vent creativly, since they are stuck to Sonic and can't make new series anymore so they experiment with Sonic to mixed results.

2D went dormant for over a decade but have been making small resurgences since 2010, with some popular games weaving in and out of the industry every year. Sonic related, mania is going to be one of those. Meanwhile, Sonic Team is tasked with making another big blowout ambitious 3D game for November 2017. Some people want the grandiose scale, level design, and speed from Unleashed back. Some want the slower blockier levels from Colors back, citing that Sonic is a platformer and his speed aspect should be neutered. Many are accepting the idea of a Generations 2 with original levels this time around in a fresh setting.

Also for what it's worth, that F-Zero game is from 2003. Faster than even current Sonic games, let alone what Adventure 2 was giving us.

Honestly, I think they should have split the series into 2 distinct branches years ago. Have Sega America and a team of western developers handle 2D classic inspired sonic games and have Sonic Team handle the big budget 3D games. Unleashed being my favorite 3D game by far, I have to say I wish they used that as a base and kept its philosophy going with an epic feeling story, day levels, night levels, hubs, tons of collectibles, speedrunning focused levels. But I am tolerant and open to other ideas to. I must say though, outside of Generations way back in fucking 2011 now...I feel like this decade has been pretty weak for Sonic. Colors and lost world were both polished and did what they did well but they didn't resonate with me at all and were pretty boring. I hope 2017 is a return to unleashed/generations form and I know mania will be good so I'm not worried for that one.

I forgot about that game but even then, trying to keep this sonic related. Sonic will always be someones first answer over a fast video game series rather than fzero. Its also lacking in details and motion blur that hedgehog engine sonic games have so it looks kinda duller than em all despite being a faster game. You aren't wrong though

The problem with Sonic Mania is that it's basically just revisiting old ideas. With enough time, that can be a very novel and successful strategy. Mega Man 9 followed a similar route.

But you can't sustain a franchise just by revisiting old ideas. You can't advance a series by just doing what you did before. Countless game franchises have attempted to do this but they've all failed. If you don't repeatedly try to advance and move forward with new, innovative concepts, you're gonna fall to the wayside and die in obscurity. This isn't just games, it applies to all aspects of life. You can't go anywhere by doing the same things over and over. If you want to reach greater heights, you have to try something new, even if it's a gamble.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not dissing Sonic Mania. I'm seriously looking forward to it. But it's only a stop gap at best. It's great for the short term, and it may even produce several successful sequels, but that novelty will wear thin sooner or later. You can't grab audience attention and expect to hold onto it for long periods of time just by going back to the past.

>just revisiting old ideas
It's doing more then that

It really isn't. It's not revolutionizing the genre. It's not offering anything that we haven't seen before. It's not exploring uncharted territories.