Masahiro Sakurai discuss about Competitive Fighting Games

>One game that is popular at competitive tournaments overseas is Marvel VS. Capcom 3.

>When you watch high level matches of Marvel, you will often see players start a combo, and keep it going until their opponent is KO’d. You can convert a single stray hit into a very long combo, and it’s not rare to see a character start with full health and lose all of it from a single combo.

>Think about what it’s like to be comboed like that. Is that fun? Doesn’t that seem absurd and unreasonable? That’s what I thought, but when you get down to it, it’s not that complicated. It’s still a contest of skill between two people.

>By the way, sometimes, when I’m making a game, there’s a small group of users who really demand a lot of things, which really stresses me out. In the case of Smash, that would be people who say things like, “This character’s down-special is too strong, fix it!” They probably think that because they keep getting hit by it and can’t avoid it, or they think the move simply isn’t balanced. I think that reasoning is fairly common.

>However, when you consider the overall structure of Smash, one move doesn’t even account for one ten-thousandth of the game. They completely ignore how many different collaborations are happening behind the scenes, how hard it was for us to even make this game, and are extremely displeased by the smallest details and the most minute adjustments. It’s a thankless job. It’s probably the type of criticism you wouldn’t get at school, or at a more typical job.

>But the problem is that personally, I do get distressed by the fact that I can’t simply ignore those voices and criticisms. They may suffer from their own personal biases, but that’s still a person who feels that way. But, even if there’s a multitude of people saying something, that doesn’t mean they are necessarily correct. There were times when I adjusted something in reaction to a vocal outcry, and there were even more complaints afterwards.

Other urls found in this thread:

sourcegaming.info/2016/09/07/512/
sourcegaming.info/2016/05/11/sakuraifanmisconception505/
sourcegaming.info/2015/09/07/ganondorf-smash-bros/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

>But the problem is that personally, I do get distressed by the fact that I can’t simply ignore those voices and criticisms. They may suffer from their own personal biases, but that’s still a person who feels that way.

>there’s a small group of users who really demand a lot of things, which really stresses me out.

(2/3)
>Basically, there are a very large number of players. The players who are satisfied don’t speak up. Even if the dissenters seem loud, most of the time they comprise a very vocal, but still very minor, portion of the player base.

>Strong moves are difficult to overcome, and are unique. But the people who don’t know how to overcome that hurdle get angry and discontent. The people that know how to deal with it aren’t angry or displeased at all, so they don’t feel the same way. In the end, it’s just a problem that, no matter how hard you think or try, probably won’t go away.

>That’s where my introduction about Marvel VS. Capcom 3 becomes relevant. Why is it still played at tournaments if these touch of death combos are so prevalent? I took a step back and thought about it, and came to the conclusion that it’s because that is fair, in it’s own way. A competitor has the freedom to choose the same team composition as their opponent, and pull off the same combos, if they so choose. If you think overpowered moves, links, or combos are unfair, then you should just use those techniques and win. Your opponent is doing the same thing to you. Getting hit by that combo starter is a result of the difference in skill between you and your opponent, and there’s a high amount of skill involved in converting that hit into a long combo. Watching high level matches, I didn’t feel that the character selection was particularly extremely limited, so as long as you have the freedom to choose, that’s fair.

(3/3)
>Of course, if the gameplay becomes too unbalanced and reliant on specific techniques and characters, that’s a problem too. Also, relying on gimmicks is a whole different conversation. However, every game that is played competitively at a high level on a global scale has different characters, gameplay styles, and results. I’ve seen Smash tournaments in the past, where every finalist played a different character, for example.

>I’m not the creator of these games, so I’m not trying to say anything definitive. But if I had to make a statement about these sorts of games, it would be, “If someone’s using a tactic that’s giving you trouble, just adopt their tactic, and win.” Of course, it’s not that easy– it’s about the effort you have to put in after that realization that matters.

>A competitor has the freedom to choose the same team composition as their opponent, and pull off the same combos, if they so choose. If you think overpowered moves, links, or combos are unfair, then you should just use those techniques and win.

No fucking shit.

basically PICK A TOP TIER

The source since OP can't be bothered to do things properly.

sourcegaming.info/2016/09/07/512/

Imagine if everybody thought like this during the vanilla version of this game.

Sanford was ahead of his time

So you better buy the dlc overpowered characters if you want to have the same advantages as your oponnent

>Sakurai: "I feel like there’s a misconstrued image of me floating around, unlike the Sakurai known to my friends, staff, or to myself. Perhaps it’s because so many kids fall into the target age range for the games I make, but people seem to love creating conspiracy theories about me. The truth isn’t that simple, though: I bear no ill will."

sourcegaming.info/2016/05/11/sakuraifanmisconception505/

Everyone would main Diddy?

>PICK A TOP TIER
Sakurai trying to make a quick buck. It comes as no surprise that the final DLC characters came loaded with a bunch of bullshit. P2W trash. Sakurai should off himself.

sorry senpai

my computer kept on freezing and shutting off my internetz

Take that Master Sword off faggot. No way in hell do you deserve to wear that with how you treat the Zelda series in Smash.

...better than Aonuma?

t. dorffag who wants Ganondorf to be another shitty sword fighter or a rehash of Mewtwo/Lucario

>That’s where my introduction about Marvel VS. Capcom 3 becomes relevant. Why is it still played at tournaments if these touch of death combos are so prevalent? I took a step back and thought about it, and came to the conclusion that it’s because that is fair, in it’s own way. A competitor has the freedom to choose the same team composition as their opponent, and pull off the same combos, if they so choose. If you think overpowered moves, links, or combos are unfair, then you should just use those techniques and win. Your opponent is doing the same thing to you. Getting hit by that combo starter is a result of the difference in skill between you and your opponent, and there’s a high amount of skill involved in converting that hit into a long combo. Watching high level matches, I didn’t feel that the character selection was particularly extremely limited, so as long as you have the freedom to choose, that’s fair.

He's completely right. Dammit, I want to play a traditional fighter by Sakurai so badly. I don't agree with how he views Smash, but he's still a great developer and director who definitely knows what he's talking about. Most of the time.

But they were then toned down due to having more data on how they work vs the rest of the cast.

N I N T E N D O
V S
C
A
P
C
O
M

Smashboards and their ilk are practically a cult at this point.

I think I've grown to respect Sakurai even more throughout the years, even if I'm lukewarm to his latest game.

> Watching high level matches, I didn’t feel that the character selection was particularly extremely limited, so as long as you have the freedom to choose, that’s fair.
Pick a top tier, or a character you're comfortable enough to win with.

what job isn't a thankless job, sakurai you stupid fuck

oh shut up kid

Zelda is well represented in Smash, especially when all the important zelda all-stars are there.

>but my favorite villain from that one game sn't playable!
play Hyrule Warriors, Smash is not crossover for every single Zelda character.

I think Sakurai lacks common sense when it comes to balance. How the fuck could anyone think Corrin's pre-patch counter was in any way a balanced idea? It's so blatantly not balanced that I think that anyone who did think it was balanced was retarded.

I have never once seen anyone speak ill of firefighters.

Those people are showered with praise admiration and they deserve it too.

He wasn't the only one in chargeof the balance unlike in Brawl, but it was still a stupid idea.

You completely missed the point retard. Also, Falcondorf still exists for whatever reason.
Name me one other character in this game that is a clone of a character that has nothing to do with their home series? I'll wait.

>an NvC game will be even free of Sakurai's bullshit
make it happen already

Your latter suggestion is severely underrated by most people. Mahvel is an unfair fucking game but you can mix and match almost any team to make a specific character super unfair.

Hell, the guy that won the EVO before this last one had 1 shit tier (sentinel), 1 mediocre tier (Hulk), and one slightly high-medium tier character (Haggar). He won because he knew his team so well that he could make unblockable bullshit and perform set ups people had never even seen before.

Even now since ChrisG won with his
morrigan team, he's the only one that can play that team at that level and even then this is the first EVO he's won in like 5 attempts.

People give too much weight to tiers in fightan games because they're lazy and don't want to explore potential strengths in "weak" characters. They just want to follow their favorite player and just parrot their opinions.

But I do enjoy Sakurai specifically using Mahvel as an example because I do love the game and it is broken but it's proof that a broken game can produce fair matches if both players approach it with the proper mindset and knowledge.

I am regularly praised at my job for the work I do and whenever I am mistreated our HR department gets down and dirty with the offenders.

Most jobs aren't thankless as long as you're not working with/for shit people.

>Ganondorf has zero source material in his moveset!
you should just read this:
sourcegaming.info/2015/09/07/ganondorf-smash-bros/

Sakurai once explained that he didn't make the game for balance and half of the characters where made for newcomers to the game.
Unbalanced characters help people who aren't into smash get into smash. If you are a pro, or whatever the smash word for that is, pick your balanced character, but all these stupid easy characters are for introducing you to the game.
That's why the game is so unbalanced, and that's why the viable roster for tourneys is kinda limited.

And i think it's a great idea to include new players into your series.
It's just that smash faggots think they need to use every single character ever created and whine about how it doesn't adjust to their expectatives.

>waaaah muh falcondorf
see

Even casuals call ganondorf "slow captain falcon"

Specially in Maghvel, where team comp is super important.

Yes, you have your Zeros and your vergils (and your Dooms), but a good team composition can beat those characters (along with skill and some luck)

Hell, wasn;t it just recently that FChamp lost to a Phoenix Wright player twice?

You know, I feel so bad for the guy sometimes.

He does what he loves and puts almost all of his entire life in to it. He's just so detached from reality and what the fans of the series would like.

"casuals" wouldn't even bother to care about one autistic thing about "muh rep" outside just enjoying the game

still, this doesn't disprove on ganondorf having zero source material in his moveset as shown in the link.

Yeah bro. He lost to a Chun, Morrigan, Phoenix team. FUCKING CHUN.

I mean Ryan LV had been making that team work for a long time but it's the first time I've seen him spank a Mahvel God with it. It was awesome. His Chun is so super technical.

I feel the game will turn out like 3rd strike meta where you'll slowly see a resurgence of mid-tier characters and other characters shifting tiers.

Mind you I'm referencing Third Strike in Japan where people actually investigate the games and develop new techniques, not in the US where everyone sucks and it's all literally just Ken/Yun/Chun.

and casual won't call Ganondorf with a sword "Ike with dark/electicity powers" if they saw the Project Ganondorf vid?

Based Immortal Jap

RE: Ganondorf

Just give him some significant sword moves (but not make him a full sword user. Think Jecth from Dissidia), a shadow ball projectile and you're mostly good to go.

Honestly, Smash 4 currently is a well balanced game for such a big cast. You have Cloud, yes, but most of the cast is still pretty viable.

or just make him like 64 ganondorf in Project M

Make him a half falcon-half link clone

Little bit of sword range to make up for his lack of speed.

I think I need a change in career.

Enoguh with the sword shit. He uses it in ONE game.

Just give him a trident so we don't have ANOTHER swordsman, plus it might satisfy some of the pig Ganon fans out there. Hopefully BotW Ganon uses it so they can borrow from it in the next smash, but it's not like all the moves have to be completely canon (see Zelda's stand)

Nigga everyone knows Marvel 3 is objective kusoge
>MVC3
>Populat
lmaoooo

>Just give him some significant sword moves (but not make him a full sword user. Think Jecth from Dissidia), a shadow ball projectile and you're mostly good to go.
this

that all we want+a float mechanic

don't have to give him a complete makeover like BronzeGreekGod did in his custom PSA hack. Ganondorf DOES have source material in Smash

"""Fans"""
As he said, it's mainly the loud minority you hear groaning

>Sent
>Shit tier
lmaooooooooooooooo

I want Marvel 3 to rise again if we're going to get stuck with SFV.

Please no.

>He uses it in ONE game.
OOT
WW
TP

>but it's not like all the moves have to be completely canon (see Zelda's stand)
Sakurai explicitly said he tends to mix in a balance of source material and smash material when doing movesets in Smash Bros.

not proving you wrong, you're actually right

Godly assist and retarded ease of use doesn't cover for shit life, slowness and big size.

>a float mechanic
Project M was so goddamn based. It's a shame the devs all sold out.

There's legit shit tiers like Spidey and Thor, don't lump Sent in with those fuckers.

Sent did go to shit tier after the nerfs from Vanilla and the Health nerf. He's still got an okay assist but his big body makes him super easy to punish and at high level play it's very easy to bait and react to his moves.


You have to be 3 steps ahead of a good player with Sentinel to make him work and without resets he can't kill with no meter.

You see him in a few top player teams but certainly not as a point character and actual comebacks with him are anecdotally rare but very exciting when they happen.

>actual comebacks with him are anecdotally rare but very exciting when they happen.
wow baiting with armor S or armor c.M so hype

his statements can apply to general gaming design

The only thing I've learned in this thread is that smash players are a bunch of whiny assholes. I hope this is the last smash because all you fucks are ungrateful little shits.

I understand the attempt at humor but Mahvel is very serious and I'm sorry but yes Sentinel is a shitty but that's been the whole point of the discussion between wherein the premise is that tiers are just a measure of potential and even shitties can be made good enough to win tournaments with good player knowledge and skill. I have nothing against Sentinel personally but put him in the hands of an average player and his weaknesses shine through quite obviously.

honestly hope NvC to happen so we can be free from the Smash shtick

Truth be told Ganons been a clone for so damn long people now have stockholm syndrome about it and dont want him to go.

Ganons never really been a big sword user either, but people seem to think he was.

Personally I want a Ganondorf that actually fucking represents what he does in Smash, and bring black shadow in and give him current ganon's moveset to appease the crybabies.

but whatever

>If you think overpowered moves, links, or combos are unfair, then you should just use those techniques and win.

>Strong moves are difficult to overcome, and are unique. But the people who don’t know how to overcome that hurdle get angry and discontent

Literally GIT GUD in a polite manner.

Everyone BTFO

Pokken exists


And is pretty good

>OOT
>WW

Dual weilding and one is in his pig form. Together with TP using a single sword and OOT using nothing in human form, it only goes to show that Ganon doesn't have a properly defined fighting style and him just punching away is just as valid as any.

If anything, at least the trident has a shred of consistency, being known to be the anti-master sword and holding Ganon's power.

>no source
bullshit

Oh you're just degrading into nitpicking and not actually contributing anything. Many characters have good moves attached to to a single button.

And quite frankly yes if a lone Sentinel manages to sneak out a successful S or cr. M on a Vergil that's teleporting around him with a belt of swords and doom missiles coming down on his head you bet your faggy little nitpicky ass it's hype as fuck and you'd be a queer to disagree. Unless you're just there to bitch about the game and not actually enjoy it, in which case you're a queer anyway and a dumb spiteful queer at that.

noob

Just give me a traditional (ie no Smash or Pokken gimmicks) FE fighter and I'll be happy.
I disagree.

>and bring black shadow in and give him current ganon's moveset to appease the crybabies.
you don't even have to throw in the edgy bull cosplayer at all

Sakurai can just do it and say goodbye to the nostalgiafags who doesn't want (actually good) change

see

All of Sakurai's real talk about fighting games reference ST/3rd STrike and Guilty Gear.

The guy used to play ST and alpha 2 at a competitive level in Japan.

how does sucking your boss's dick working for you guys

>Personally I want a Ganondorf that actually fucking represents what he does in Smash,
see

What is even left of the mod now? Do people still host tourneys? Has anyone gotten to completing the unfinished content?

Where did he talk about GG?

My immediate boss was first my best friend for over 10 years and actually got me the job right out of my master's program.

We've also hired several other close friends and work in a happy, stable environment.

Sounds like you wanna make other people bitter or maybe just imagine dudes sucking dicks but hey man you'll have a better time accomplishing the latter than the former on the internet am I right buddy? Hahahaha

Nah I'm just kidding. Play less games, get therapy and improve yourself.

I'm not sure where you work but if they aren't treating you well, you NEED to take that up with HR or leave.

If you're not content at your workplace now, it's just going to end up hurting you in the future.

yes theres still tournaments and they get streamed on hitbox all the time fuck the pm devs for selling out fuck the TOs that were mad a brawl mod was doing well and fuck the twitch kikes for forcing it off the only used streaming site

How did the PM devs sell out? Did they just close shop at the slightest hint of a possible lolsuit?

>make Ganondorf like the times he used his sword weapon
>"ANOTHER SWORDMANS FIGHTER WTF SAKURAI???!!!"
>make Ganondorf more like his wizard self in OoT
>"wow he's a dumb Mewtwo clone, why does he float???"
there's no pleasing here

the only good choices to solve all of our dorf problems is to add Decline-era Ganon or add a stylish gimmick on Ganondorf in Smash 5 where he can change his fighting styles.

hopefully Calamity Ganon would also do something about this as well

this explains it

every other claims outside of this is mostly misinfo and mixed info from armchair "insiders" from reddit (which got deleted)

Alright then

Shame it collapsed

He talks like such a pretentious faggot

the fox user or PM Buddha?

I've read that ages ago. All they did was slightly and lazily give him tiny references to things he does in his own game series instead of starting a new moveset from scratch. All Sakurai did was put in half-assed effort.

Only retards defend Falcondorf. Would you faggots like it if Sonic played like Captain Falcon clone? If Marth played like Kirby clone? The only reason people excuse Falcondorf is because it hasn't happened to whoever they main so they don't give a fuck. P.S. I don't even main Falcondorf because he plays absolutely nothing like he should.

>Doesn't have a trident.
>Doesn't even really use magic just has some attacks that Sakurai pathetically tried to make look magical
>Doesn't use a sword unless it's for a taunt or custom moves
>Doesn't have a bitch slap reflector in reference to Phantom Ganon and Ganondorf Evil King from OoT.

He's a great guy.

Let the Smashbabbies have their Falcondorf. Hyrule Warriors proved we can have an awesome Ganondorf that stays true to the source material and plenty more (Pic related soon). They're that stupid that they think having a sword means he'll be a clone or that the way he is fits his character like in the Zelda games.

I'll post that picture breaking down Smashfags and their mindsets after this shortly.

Sakurai telling people to stop being low-tier memers and just play to win, is this real life?

...

I see no issue with what was said here, other than to say "take criticism in stride and don't let it bother you that much".

>no air-ride attention

so they already won then

Pretty much and you don't even have to play $18 For the best characters.

Mewtwo is top tier, Mario is top tier, Diddy is top tier, Sheik is too tier, Sonic is top tier and Meta Knignt is top tier


Hell Marth, Fox, DK and Megaman are freaking good. This game has a lot of good options to play a top 15 character and you don't even have to touch Ryu, Cloud and Bayo which are still fun characters


tl;dr Stop playing Dedede, Ganon and Puff and play a real character

see, what you're asking for is a clusterfuck of source material in his moveset in Smash

he already does many stuff like:
-the ground slam from OoT (via his air Side-B)
-his sword techniques in TP (via Beam Sword and his Warlock Punch custom)
-the choke grab, against one of the sages, from TP. (via
-the foot stomp from TP (his side tilt)

meanwhile, you're here whining why Ganondorf isn't:
>swing his trident around
>dual wielding swords
>floating around a shoot yellow energy balls like a braindead zoner character in Smash
>transforming into Ganon (Giga Bowser-style)
>having a complete makeover resulting him into some sort of darker variant of Ike or Mewtwo in Smash. (in the eyes of the casuals according to this user )
all at the same time.

you're better off just asking for another playable Ganon in Smash at this point, either Phantom Ganon, WW Ganondorf, or just Pig Ganon.

he discusses competitive fighting games or he talks about competitive fighting games

>Humanoid Star Fox
no i rather see the series dead than getting more games that end up being super-mediocre like Zero and Assault or just straight up shit like Command

and fuck furries, Star Wolf homolust and Krystal is all they ever talk about in Star Fox nowadays.

>Sakurai talks about something he knows nothing about

cool this is going to be painful

whoops
>-the choke grab, against one of the sages, from TP. (via* ground Side-B)