>The fact that so many books still name The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time as "the greatest or most significant or most influential" videogame ever only tells you how far videogames still are from becoming a serious art. Jazz critics have long recognized that the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Classical critics rank the highly controversial Beethoven over classical musicians who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Videogame critics are still blinded by commercial success. Ocarina of Time sold more than anything else (not true, by the way), therefore it must have been the greatest. Jazz critics grow up listening to a lot of jazz music of the past, classical critics grow up listening to a lot of classical music of the past. Videogame critics are often totally ignorant of the videogames of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that Ocarina of Time did anything worthy of being saved.
Beethoven is a meme composer, same with Coltrane, same with OoT, it isn't even the best Zelda/
Ethan Clark
Yes. Popularity does not eqeul quality, and it's astounding that people still think this way.
Matthew Parker
Yes. Because the greatest video game of all time is Megaman X.
Alexander Martin
Literally who and why should I give a shit about what he says?
Jonathan Rogers
Scaruffi is always right.
Cooper Barnes
lol no
Asher Lopez
What is the best Satriani song and why is it STILL Surfing with the Alien?
Ethan Reed
where da video game at
Nathaniel Cook
right here my man
Luis Barnes
Honestly, did OoT really influence that much? Zelda has always been its own little niche of a genre. You look at something like Okami, or Darksiders, and you can pretty safely say they're Zelda-style games, rather than some broad genre.
Nolan Garcia
video games aren't art and can never be art. it's just an excuse to legitimately call games like undertale the greatest of all time like prediction user said it would
Robert Morgan
>Ocarina of Time sold more than anything else (not true, by the way), therefore it must have been the greatest >not true, by the way Then his entire argument falls apart.
Dominic Davis
That's not Satch Boogie!
Sebastian Morgan
>Ocarina of Time sold more than anything else (not true, by the way) Maybe they're saying it's influential for an entirely different fucking reason then Is this what a strawman looks like? Because holy shit I think I understand now.
Jose Gray
no
Josiah Allen
I mean you can call Zelda an adventure game, but so is Uncharted.
It's not like how FPS games started as Doom-clones, and then earned a general title, and even still, you can recognize Doom as being a first person shooter.
Hunter Nguyen
What a stupid way of reasoning.
Yeah sure, commerical success doesn't equal quality, but just because something was commerically successful doesn't mean it can't be the greatest aswell.
I don't even agree OoT is the greatest, but saying OoT isn't the greatest because it was a huge success? What a pretentious and hipster thing to say.
Logan Sanders
What a normie pleb. He knows the name of one popular game.
Blake Williams
I've heard of Tony Hawk. D oes that mean I know everything about the art of skateboarding?
Juan Long
The problem is that game critics are nothing more than glorified shills.
Lucas Smith
Nice copypasta OP.
The Beatles fucking suck.
Nolan White
>not Always with me, always with you, his objectively greatest piece of music that inspired a generation of musicians and revolutionized guitar with that mindblowing tapping sequence
Gavin Evans
He's not wrong about how commercialism and money-making is still the main orientation of making a video game, from the lowest of indie trash to triple-A hotshit. But then again, he's a fucking musician using the medium of music as a comparison to video games; that shit doesn't work, no two mediums can be simply judged, and there's no good universal standards by which to compare all mediums of art, at least according to the arguments of pretentious arthouse fucks who claim everything is art. I love Satch, but he's only right about the commercialism aspect. Video games won't ever be art because they can never truly divorce themselves from business and the entertainment industry, no matter how many indie devs may get into game development for the sake of "making art" and bullshit.
Jonathan Diaz
>i didn't go to video game school, I went to video games.
what did kojima mean by this
Parker Sanchez
Producing video games costs significantly more than most other mediums, so that connection to commercialism is unavoidable. Not out of greed, mind, but because it'd be fucking retarded to not want to at least get the money back that you spent in creating the damn thing.
Hunter Price
0/10 no effort into editing the copypasta
Cameron Moore
Absolutely. I don't disagree with that whatsoever. But consider also the anti-consumer mentality prominent in indie devs who ostensibly claim they got into game development for artistic purposes, then absolutely lose their fucking minds on social media when their games fail, and start accusing people of being ignorant and uneducated for not buying their shit or supporting their project, despite massively obvious flaws or a totally lackluster product. To me, that indicates a hypocritical belief in games as art from the devs, when in actuality games are still merely a means of earning money and they're too incompetent or their ideas are too shit to be effective at generating profit, so there is born the argument of people "misunderstanding" the artistry of whatever game is under question.
A commercial video game can't be art because it is a product that requires patronage to justify its existence. If the patronage isn't there--such as when a game is fucking dogshit like No Man's Sky and people don't want to pay for a subpar product--then the game has failed its purpose to entertain and generate revenue. All these additional details of creative expression through story and visual details are irrelevant; those are vehicles through which a game attracts customers and is sold. Attempting to apply the concept of art to video games adds nebulous complexities that have poor definitions.
Austin Campbell
>Edited Scaruffi pastas are making their way to Sup Forums now
Wyatt Scott
In part, I wonder whether indie devs throw shitfits not because they failed their chance at making money, but because in seeing their product fail, they see their ideas, beliefs, and values fail. It feels more like an ego-thing, like a failure of a game is a personal insult. It might as well be, considering how often indie devs make marketing their games about marketing themselves.
Actually, it's just an excuse to get funding usually reserved for art from governments :^)
Tyler Wilson
>in seeing their product fail, they see their ideas, beliefs, and values fail. Yeah, I'd say that's a big part of it, but it's taken to such an obnoxious extreme that it's hard to feel sympathetic for someone who spent a shitload of time creating a game, only to have them spend days on twitter pissing a fit and calling people entitled because they won't buy their game. It's completely an ego thing, and I can somewhat understand where they're coming from in the independent, small-business mindset, but shitting on potential customers because of negative reviews is no way to go about promoting your studio, much less demonstrate yourself as a competent professional.
Go look at indie devs on Twitter who have endless posts of people laughing at them because they couldn't restrain themselves from publicly ranting. Peter Moorhead, a failed indie dev turned commentator, attacked everyone who thought No Man's Sky was terrible by saying gamers were entitled brats and were ruining the industry by not buying the game outright regardless of all of the identified flaws and misrepresentation, because of the effort and investment of time. He also tried to compare games development to busking, and claimed that everyone who didn't give money to Murray and his team were the literal equivalent of people listening to a street performer play music and not paying them for their performance. All of that shit stems from an egotistic need to be successful to justify the time spent in development; no matter how crap the end result is, it must be good because "I worked hard to make it, and you must appreciate it for the effort."
Benjamin Allen
>it's hard to feel sympathetic Essentially. I completely agree.
