I don't think this is the best Zelda game, but it is the most memorable Zelda...

I don't think this is the best Zelda game, but it is the most memorable Zelda. Why doesn't Nintendo make something memorable like this or Super Mario Galaxy again Sup Forums??

Other urls found in this thread:

glitterberri.com/majoras-mask/staff-interview/zelda-is-always-bringing-something-new-to-the-table/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Because Majora's Mask was a bit fucked up

Because Koizumi doesn't direct games anymore.

He never did. I regret making up this myth when I was misinformed. He only directed some stuff and contributed to the lore, but he's not a game director. Miyamoto and Aonuma are the good guys.

To answer OP's question, it's because Fujibayashi and Iwamoto, and something that afflicts the video game industry and Hollywood known as confirmation bias. Iwata is the first person I actually know who pointed it out. Big hits will get bigger even if they're bad because there's no sense of balance. There's no way to measure the success of something aside from sales, so it just keeps escalating without a break until it all burns out.

Thankfully, Nintendo is pretty good at self-restraint, but every now and then we still get a Spirit Tracks or Triforce Heroes.

I'm pretty sure this had a bad reputation when it came out, i remember a lot of people not liking it, myself included

Nowadays i think it is the best 3D Zelda they have ever made

What the fuck are you talking about? He co-directed MM and directed Sunshine and Galaxy.

I think Nintendo is just retarded now and seems to make decisions based on a board room of old Japanese men who have never touched a game or a code in their lives.

>Mario games
>in a Zelda thread

Hurr rurr. I'm obviously not talking about Mario am I? And Aonuma directed MM. Koizumi only came up with
>the groundhog's day system
>the moon story
>some of the sidequests

He didn't make the dungeons or anything, and there's nothing to say he came up with all the story for four areas.

Majora's Mask's dungeons aren't the most memorable part though

So he came up with the main gameplay hook, the story, and everything memorable including Clocktown, NPC schedules and stories, and more. This is on top of his carry-over contributions from OoT. He's credited as designer, every interview lists him as co-director.

Meanwhile Aonuma can't even remember the boss design philosophy.

Pretty much the only reason why I like MM so much is because I'm a lorefag. So many theories of what happened to Link after MM. And MM Link is a little more characterized than in OOT. Makes me a little more sad for this guy, fucking carries the the whole world on his back without any complaints.

I like the philosophical questions raised by Majora's Mask more than the Lore/Theories. The Lore is useless while the philosophy can be applied to real life.

Well ultimately any good story is about its themes and what you take away from it.

So that's what makes it memorable.

OoT Link's situation is more interesting to me though. He's raised by what are essentially eternal children, who are childish to the point of treating him like an outcast because he didn't have a fairy, until the age of 10 or so. So he should have an extreme lack of any kind of social awareness or maturity given those conditions.

After that, he's pushed into an adult body in a ruined world. Everyone has huge expectations of him, horrible things happening everywhere. By the time he's finished, he's got to be relatively hardened despite having the mind of a socially stunted 10 year old kid that whole time.

And then he has to come back to being a kid again. That's just fucked up how he got dragged to two extremes.

>And then he has to come back to being a kid again.

Which is the kid in Majora's Mask, and Majora's Mask actually puts him into social situations because it focuses so heavily on the people of its world, which is largely why Tatl seems to have to explain everything to him half the time and tell him not to be rude and shit.

this. Link had aspects of a cocky little fuck.

OoT's my favorite game but I don't see it as that.

Link is the player ultimately, so that stuff doesn't really matter. I mean, Navi was supposed to be jealous of Link's affections for Zelda at one point, and Zelda is obviously the prettiest girl in the game. That tells me OoT Link doesn't have more than an inferred personality reflective of the player. He's not like TWW/TP/SS Link.

The ending of Ocarina basically carries the message "Don't grow up too fast. Enjoy life while you can," because it's a kid-friendly game.

That's just flavor text. It's not a DEEP throwback to OoT. It's more like commentary on Japanese customs probably. Once again let's look at a good example in the ending. Tatl is all tsundere and tells Link to go home already. Which then you find out she didn't really mean just as Link nods and hightails off. But her brother can sense this and comforts her.

MM is deep, but I think a lot of people miss the forest for the trees.

so

what do you think happened to link after MM

i don't think he died, but he had to have met with some spirit wolf or some shit after

You spelled sunshine really wrong

>i don't think he died
But he literally did.

He went back to Hyrule and at some point befriended the Gorons and Zoras, pulled out the Master Sword, fathered a child, and became the subject of countless legends. Not necessarily in that order.

user please

Left and fucked a farm girl. Or multiple.

This. It will never be the same.

Right, I did say he directed some. However, he's not Aonuma or Miyamoto. Aonuma proved himself with Phantom Hourglass. He can design a coherent game all by himself, with nonlinear structure if and when he wants.

I'm not necessarily convinced Koizumi is the genius behind everything in Zelda that makes the games so good. I think it's a combination of Aonuma, Yoichi Yamada (the director of Zelda II), and Makoto Sasaki (Environment designer of all the 3D Zeldas).

Ah, excuse me then.

" And Aonuma directed MM. Koizumi only came up with" I think implied that Koizumi didn't direct any of it.

But I agree with you Koizumi isn't the "genius behind zelda" What he's good at is making story-based stuff, as he apparently studied film before ending up at Nintendo. Sadly, basically Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask are the only games where we'll see any of of Koizumi's ideas. Although I think he came up with scenarios for Ocarina of Time.

One thing to note though is that if it wasn't for Koizumi, zelda probably wouldn't be what it is today in terms of the combat. Apparently he was trying to make a 3D polygon version of zelda 2 for the super nintendo, and that ultimately led to Ocarina of Time's development. But yeah, he doesn't do everything, if anything, he's never been allowed to stretch his legs at all, so we'll never know whether or not Koizumi's work is "genius" or not.

meant for dunno what happened to the other comment.

No, you specifically said
>he never [directed]

Can't comment on Phantom Hourglass because I don't know the story behind it other than Miyamoto pushing for exclusive touchscreen controls and because I think it's terrible. MM proved that back then Aonuma could not design a gane however. He made the initial wager, but Koizumi was brought in afterwards when the project was floundering, and Koizumi came up with essential things like the premise of the entire game.

Koizumi isn't the genius behind Zelda. He doesn't work on Zelda. However, he's a great game designer for contributing fundamental building blocks like Z-targeting which is the only reason 3D Zelda isn't in first person. More relevant to this thread, he clearly has a signature touch of stories and themes, using bittersweet elements and an atmosphere like a children's story with whimsy and sophistication. That's what makes games he works on memorable.

Yeah, I deleted it cause the image didn't belong.

And yeah, I know most of that stuff about him. And while I think he's a really cool guy and that you're right, Zelda owes its combat all to him, he still makes critical flaws. I haven't played SMG2, but reading a little bit of the Iwata Asks interview it sounds like Miyamoto butting in is the reason that that game is praised as the best Wii game. Which does cast some shade on Koizumi, since he is the director.

Koizumi didn't direct SMG2. He was the producer. He stopped directing after Galaxy 1.

My quote >He only directed some stuff

Also, Aonuma was the one who turned down Master Quest as you pointed out in favor releasing MM. So to say he couldn't design a game is slander. What really happened is that he went to Koizumi for help because he worked so heavily on Ocarina, and Koizumi gave him an ultimatum to incorporate his fancy new time concept, in exchange for his help. So Aonuma agreed.

My take on the rest of what you said, is that we will never really know what Zelda would be like without him, so it's all moot. Miyamoto's first-person idea was never even incorporated once, until Skyward Sword. And to me, that was one of the only fun parts of that game. I think Zelda would be worse off, but I think the third-person idea for OoT would have happened eventually anyways. I point to Phantom Ganon for evidence. In Iwata Asks Miyamoto said he designed that battle, because he wanted to salvage his own idea. Which is basically switching the field of battle from first-person to third-person. That's why it has two phases. Miyamoto basically wanted OoT to be Other M, but good.

I think it's a great game for using a different formula and not trying to suck OoT's dick.

>I don't think
You're right about that at least

>mfw I only had 5 HP left.

You're completely misinformed. Aonuma didn't approach Koizumi, Miyamoto did because that's the producer's job: make sure the project runs smoothly, and Aonuma was fucking it up. So Koizumi was brought in, his cops and robbers game was cancelled, and his idea became the basis of MM. There's a very old Zeldainformer interview about this. The fact that Koizumi had to be brought in at all shows that back then, Aonuma did not have the chops to direct by himself.

But the point really isn't about who did exactly what. The point is that Koizumi's influence plays a big role in the little details that make the games in the OP so memorable.

We're both equally right and wrong.

He needed Koizumi to make the game, but Miyamoto had nothing to do with him being brought in. In a different interview, he does mention he wanted to make his own games and Miyamoto wanted him to keep working on Zelda, but nothing suggests this was for Majora's Mask specifically. That was Aonuma's play.

This. The Hero of Time had a hard life. He didn't deserve it. I hope he could enjoy his days after his adventures.

There's an old Japanese interview done in 2000 listed on his wikipedia page with an English translation you can find easily.

There's a great bit about Koizumi moaning over his scrapped game design and Miyamoto putting him and a bunch of other people back on Zelda after they started working on other stuff.

I trust that more than a vague intweview with Aonuma 13 years afterwards.

Wish this was remade and uploaded to where I could print it up and post it around my dorm building
Does this exist

WE'R LUGEION!! XD

Nobody will find it funny, and every girl within a 100 mile radius will recognize you as a bigot and asshole when they find out. Or if you do manage to do it in secret, your own subconscious will eat away at you and make your quality of life worse karmically.

It's not on the wiki, but I know what you're talking about. glitterberri.com/majoras-mask/staff-interview/zelda-is-always-bringing-something-new-to-the-table/

I guess you're right. It sounds like part of the idea came from Miyamoto to pull him back in.

Major is fucking outstanding. It is a great game that is extremely memorable. But people often deride OOT at the expense of MM. OOT is still better for a lot of the same reasons.

So uhh, what the fuck was her problem?